Here's the thing about CharlottesvilleIt

[OldLady]

The era the statues were erected were not to commemorate the South's best Traitors to the United States of America...they were put up to intimidate black people during the Jim Crow era, where black people were kept from voting and new laws were created to imprison them, and laws written to take the right to vote away from prisoners who always had the right to vote in prison before the civil war if white.... and segregation etc etc etc

That's your viewpoint and that's FINE! I have NO objection to your viewpoint. I don't necessarily agree with you but I respect your right to express your viewpoint. The thing is, YOU haven't been put in charge of deciding these issues for all! YOU don't get to write yourself a pass to violate the First Amendment because you don't like something.

What's wrong with letting the COMMUNITY decide and you keeping your fucking virtue-signalling nose out of it? It's ironic that YOU are being the FASCIST here! You want to use your iron fist to demand society conform to your demands... Mussolini couldn't be more proud!

Careful, boss, you're getting a bit binary there.
I agree with you about the community deciding the issue of its statues. So why did "Unite the Right" come from all over, including out of state, to stick their fucking virtue signalling nose in it?

 

[Boss]

Right. The OP said unite the right was all non violent people. Now you say it doesn't matter. Are you confused?

No, the OP did NOT say that. Read it again. I said they were not a white supremacy or hate group. But that's totally beside the point. It doesn't matter to the First Amendment if they were or weren't.

I'm not going for this "hate group" bullshit because you FASCIST LEFTIES can literally make ANYONE a hate group! We don't suspend our Constitution because you get emotive and declare some group a "hate group" because you disagree with their political views. That's not how the CONSTITUTION works!

So you can basically grow the fuck up and act like adults or we can have another fucking civil war over it.

 

[BULLDOG]

Right. The OP said unite the right was all non violent people. Now you say it doesn't matter. Are you confused?

No, the OP did NOT say that. Read it again. I said they were not a white supremacy or hate group. But that's totally beside the point. It doesn't matter to the First Amendment if they were or weren't.

I'm not going for this "hate group" bullshit because you FASCIST LEFTIES can literally make ANYONE a hate group! We don't suspend our Constitution because you get emotive and declare some group a "hate group" because you disagree with their political views. That's not how the CONSTITUTION works!

So you can basically grow the fuck up and act like adults or we can have another fucking civil war over it.

No, they were made up of a lot of white supremacy and hate groups. The organizer made sure of that.

 

[Boss]

The era the statues were erected were not to commemorate the South's best Traitors to the United States of America...they were put up to intimidate black people during the Jim Crow era, where black people were kept from voting and new laws were created to imprison them, and laws written to take the right to vote away from prisoners who always had the right to vote in prison before the civil war if white.... and segregation etc etc etc

That's your viewpoint and that's FINE! I have NO objection to your viewpoint. I don't necessarily agree with you but I respect your right to express your viewpoint. The thing is, YOU haven't been put in charge of deciding these issues for all! YOU don't get to write yourself a pass to violate the First Amendment because you don't like something.

What's wrong with letting the COMMUNITY decide and you keeping your fucking virtue-signalling nose out of it? It's ironic that YOU are being the FASCIST here! You want to use your iron fist to demand society conform to your demands... Mussolini couldn't be more proud!

Careful, boss, you're getting a bit binary there.
I agree with you about the community deciding the issue of its statues. So why did "Unite the Right" come from all over, including out of state, to stick their fucking virtue signalling nose in it?

It doesn't matter! They have the right in America under the Constitution and First Amendment to peacefully protest. IF Care4All wanted to go to Virginia and march with Antifa to peacefully protest, that's fine too... no problem. It's the VIOLENCE that is condemned. You don't get to support violence as a resolve when you don't agree.

 

[Boss]

Right. The OP said unite the right was all non violent people. Now you say it doesn't matter. Are you confused?

No, the OP did NOT say that. Read it again. I said they were not a white supremacy or hate group. But that's totally beside the point. It doesn't matter to the First Amendment if they were or weren't.

I'm not going for this "hate group" bullshit because you FASCIST LEFTIES can literally make ANYONE a hate group! We don't suspend our Constitution because you get emotive and declare some group a "hate group" because you disagree with their political views. That's not how the CONSTITUTION works!

So you can basically grow the fuck up and act like adults or we can have another fucking civil war over it.

No, they were made up of a lot of white supremacy and hate groups. The organizer made sure of that.

I don't know what the organizer did or didn't do. IT DOES NOT MATTER!

Read the First Amendment!

 

[BULLDOG]

Right. The OP said unite the right was all non violent people. Now you say it doesn't matter. Are you confused?

No, the OP did NOT say that. Read it again. I said they were not a white supremacy or hate group. But that's totally beside the point. It doesn't matter to the First Amendment if they were or weren't.

I'm not going for this "hate group" bullshit because you FASCIST LEFTIES can literally make ANYONE a hate group! We don't suspend our Constitution because you get emotive and declare some group a "hate group" because you disagree with their political views. That's not how the CONSTITUTION works!

So you can basically grow the fuck up and act like adults or we can have another fucking civil war over it.

No, they were made up of a lot of white supremacy and hate groups. The organizer made sure of that.

I don't know what the organizer did or didn't do. IT DOES NOT MATTER!

Read the First Amendment!

You want to pretend it doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

 

[Boss]

You want to pretend it doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

Well yes it does work that way. Read the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

It says not a word about "hate groups not included." It doesn't authorize emotive virtue-signalling liberals to deem who is a "hate group" and therefore, prohibited from their inalienable right. It doesn't authorize Antifa or any other group to incite violence in order to prohibit their inalienable right.

So, how it works is how it says it works. Real simple!

 

[BULLDOG]

You want to pretend it doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

Well yes it does work that way. Read the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

It says not a word about "hate groups not included." It doesn't authorize emotive virtue-signalling liberals to deem who is a "hate group" and therefore, prohibited from their inalienable right. It doesn't authorize Antifa or any other group to incite violence in order to prohibit their inalienable right.

So, how it works is how it says it works. Real simple!

Right, and when Jason Kessler recruited a bunch of hate groups for his rally, the combination of all those hate groups was a bigger hate group.

 

[Boss]

Right, and when Jason Kessler recruited a bunch of hate groups for his rally, the combination of all those hate groups was a bigger hate group.

Again... "HATE GROUP" is a designator not found in the Constitution anywhere.

We don't have a uniform standard for determining WHO is a hate group.

It' a made-up term of the LEFT in order to bash people they disagree with politically.

The Constitution simply doesn't apply only to LEFT WING speech. Sorry!

 

[irosie91]

the basis for determining HATE GROUPS----is supposed to hinge on the aspects of group
ideology that lead to violence or infringement of the RIGHTS of other groups. ----the next
debate is "rights"

You can find a way to apply this criteria to virtually ANY group.

It's Unconstitutional!

you can apply a charge of "INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE" so ANY group?

 

[irosie91]

You want to pretend it doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

Well yes it does work that way. Read the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

It says not a word about "hate groups not included." It doesn't authorize emotive virtue-signalling liberals to deem who is a "hate group" and therefore, prohibited from their inalienable right. It doesn't authorize Antifa or any other group to incite violence in order to prohibit their inalienable right.

So, how it works is how it says it works. Real simple!

Right, and when Jason Kessler recruited a bunch of hate groups for his rally, the combination of all those hate groups was a bigger hate group.

yes---Jason Kessler is a bastard-----but not ALL of the people trying to save the park art were
bastards or knew just who JASON KESSLER is. I have decided to NEVER JOIN a demonstration---
even if they seem for a "GOOD CAUSE"-----there may be a JASON somewhere in the mix

 

[BULLDOG]

Right, and when Jason Kessler recruited a bunch of hate groups for his rally, the combination of all those hate groups was a bigger hate group.

Again... "HATE GROUP" is a designator not found in the Constitution anywhere.

We don't have a uniform standard for determining WHO is a hate group.

It' a made-up term of the LEFT in order to bash people they disagree with politically.

The Constitution simply doesn't apply only to LEFT WING speech. Sorry!

Cell phone isn't in the constitution either, but I guarantee you they exist. THe OP repeated the right wing talking point that the protesters were nonviolent people, and unexpectedly a few violent people joined them. That has been shown to be bullshit.

 

[Crixus]

The era the statues were erected were not to commemorate the South's best Traitors to the United States of America...they were put up to intimidate black people during the Jim Crow era, where black people were kept from voting and new laws were created to imprison them, and laws written to take the right to vote away from prisoners who always had the right to vote in prison before the civil war if white.... and segregation etc etc etc

History shows they were not put up, for any kind of goodness or commemoration in a good sense of an alleged war hero or heritage.

That's just a fact.

so WHY is keeping these statues up, when they were placed where they are for nefarious and evil reasons, so important? Makes no sense to me???

They belong in a Museum, to commemorate History, with a lot more details.

Yeah, so ANTIFA doesn't have to make as many bombs. They can just blow them all up in one spot.

 

[BULLDOG]

You want to pretend it doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

Well yes it does work that way. Read the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

It says not a word about "hate groups not included." It doesn't authorize emotive virtue-signalling liberals to deem who is a "hate group" and therefore, prohibited from their inalienable right. It doesn't authorize Antifa or any other group to incite violence in order to prohibit their inalienable right.

So, how it works is how it says it works. Real simple!

Right, and when Jason Kessler recruited a bunch of hate groups for his rally, the combination of all those hate groups was a bigger hate group.

yes---Jason Kessler is a bastard-----but not ALL of the people trying to save the park art were
bastards or knew just who JASON KESSLER is. I have decided to NEVER JOIN a demonstration---
even if they seem for a "GOOD CAUSE"-----there may be a JASON somewhere in the mix

I suppose there might have been a few unsuspecting protesters, but by design, they were mostly made up of white supremacists, and Nazis

 

[Boss]

you can apply a charge of "INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE" so ANY group?

I went over this earlier.

SCOTUS has ruled there is a three-pronged approach to determining whether speech is protected under the First Amendment.

the basis for determining HATE GROUPS----is supposed to hinge on the aspects of group
ideology that lead to violence or infringement of the RIGHTS of other groups. ----the next
debate is "rights"

You can find a way to apply this criteria to virtually ANY group.

It's Unconstitutional!

you can apply a charge of "INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE" so ANY group?

Brandenburg v. Ohio - Wikipedia

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)[edit]
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.

Judge Learned Hand was possibly the first judge to advocate the intent standard, in Masses Publishing Co. v. Patten,[11] reasoning that "f one stops short of urging upon others that it is their duty or their interest to resist the law, it seems to me one should not be held to have attempted to cause its violation". The Brandenburg intent standard is more speech-protective than Hand's formulation, which contained no temporal element.

The imminence element was a departure from earlier rulings. Brandenburg did not explicitly overrule the bad tendency test, but it appears that after Brandenburg, the test is de facto overruled. The Brandenburg test effectively made the time element of the clear and present danger test more defined and more rigorous.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there are 3 elements which have to be met in order for the speech to not be protected under the First Amendment.

1. There must be an intent to commit a lawless action.
2. There must be a likelihood of the lawless action happening.
3. The likelihood of lawless action must be imminent.

If the speech fails the test on ANY of the three, it is protected under the First Amendment.

 

[Boss]

Cell phone isn't in the constitution either, but I guarantee you they exist. THe OP repeated the right wing talking point that the protesters were nonviolent people, and unexpectedly a few violent people joined them. That has been shown to be bullshit.

I did not say anyone was "non violent" ... read it again if you need to. You have some selective hearing when you're reading or something because I've now corrected you on this twice and I don't intend to keep doing it.

I said, and it is true, that the protesters in Charlottesville were a combination of many groups, some were indeed violent and some were not. It appears by the videos, the most violent were the neo-nazis, the white supremacists and Antifa. I don't believe they were the only people there and I don't even think you believe that. It doesn't matter what percentage or who was worse than the other. Those are superfluous points that mean absolutely nothing here.

The group with the permit had the right to peacefully protest. They didn't have the right to engage in violence and neither did the groups who didn't have permits, who came to incite violence and confront them.

AGAIN--- DISCLAIMER-- I do not support or condone the positions or viewpoints of ANY of the groups. I condemn the violence from ALL the groups. Why does the LEFT seem to have a problem with that? The only thing I can reason is, you support the violence from Antifa while condemning the mere presence of the white supremacists and neo-nazis.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You want to pretend it doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

Well yes it does work that way. Read the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

It says not a word about "hate groups not included." It doesn't authorize emotive virtue-signalling liberals to deem who is a "hate group" and therefore, prohibited from their inalienable right. It doesn't authorize Antifa or any other group to incite violence in order to prohibit their inalienable right.

So, how it works is how it says it works. Real simple!

Right, and when Jason Kessler recruited a bunch of hate groups for his rally, the combination of all those hate groups was a bigger hate group.

yes---Jason Kessler is a bastard-----but not ALL of the people trying to save the park art were
bastards or knew just who JASON KESSLER is. I have decided to NEVER JOIN a demonstration---
even if they seem for a "GOOD CAUSE"-----there may be a JASON somewhere in the mix

I suppose there might have been a few unsuspecting protesters, but by design, they were mostly made up of white supremacists, and Nazis

It was called UNITE the Right, as in, bring all the groups together, Nazis and non-Nazis welcome!

 

[Boss]

It was called UNITE the Right, as in, bring all the groups together, Nazis and non-Nazis welcome!

Does not change the First Amendment.

 

[cnm]

Of course they are, dumbass.

So the socialists were marching to unite America and defend Confederate statues. It can't get better...

 

[cnm]

The Nazis held torch marches? I did not know. There were Nazi chants? what did they say?

Here you go. I don't speak German so can't translate.