Here's the thing about CharlottesvilleIt

[Care4all]

This alleged Unite the Right peaceful protest began Friday night with bus loads of people handed torches with a mimic of the NAZI torch marches and Nazi chants..... where were all these good people that were not Nazis and white supremacists in the protest lock step march...???

The Nazis held torch marches? I did not know. There were Nazi chants? what did they say?

Several dozen torch-wielding protesters gathered Saturday in Charlottesville, Va., chanting Nazi rhetoric as well as "Russia is our friend." Mayor Mike Signer has issued a statement likening the event to a KKK demonstration.

The group congregated in Lee Park by a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, which is slated to be removed from the premises later this year following a February city council vote. Earlier in the day, protesters had also gathered at nearby Jackson Park, voicing their commitment to protecting what they called their "white heritage."

Chants of "blood and soil" broke out just after 9 PM. The German-originated expression, popularized in the Nazi era, refers to an ideology of "ethnic purity" based on blood descent and territory. Torch-wielding Virginia protesters gather by Confederate status, chant Nazi rhetoric


Night of the Long Knives

 

[Boss]

I am fascinated. The "SPECIFIC" reason for putting up a statue of a general like Robert
E Lee was to "INTIMIDATE BLACKs......." I am not DENYING your allegation----it just seems
silly to me...... You got anything to support your allegation? Laws removing the right to
vote from felons were created SPECIFICALLY to target blacks? I assume that would be sometime
in the mid 1800s-----you got something to support that allegation?. I am not denying the fact that
blacks were oppressed in the south

There is something to be said for her argument. MANY of the Confederate monuments were erected by DEMOCRAT leaders in the wake of desegregation and Civil Rights. But like virtually every horrid thing Democrats have ever done (their history of it is long), they want to twist and distort it into the fault of Republicans.

I don't personally have an issue with statues and monuments and I think if you are such a weak person that this is an issue to you, it's a pathetic thing. That said, if a community or city wants to put up or take down a monument, it should be up to the people who live there. Not some bunch of sniveling, virtue-signalling, moron Democrats!

 

[Boss]

Several dozen torch-wielding protesters gathered Saturday in Charlottesville, Va., chanting Nazi rhetoric as well as "Russia is our friend." Mayor Mike Signer has issued a statement likening the event to a KKK demonstration.

The group congregated in Lee Park by a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, which is slated to be removed from the premises later this year following a February city council vote. Earlier in the day, protesters had also gathered at nearby Jackson Park, voicing their commitment to protecting what they called their "white heritage."

The KKK is allowed to peacefully demonstrate in America! I don't agree with their views... I don't agree with Black Lives Matter... but they have Freedom of Speech! What part of this are you not comprehending?

I don't care if you write twenty pages of accusations of what they said or symbolized... unless they called for violence or made imminent threats, they have every right to speak in the public square... just like YOU do! That's fucking AMERICA!

 

[Care4all]

The era the statues were erected were not to commemorate the South's best Traitors to the United States of America...they were put up to intimidate black people during the Jim Crow era, where black people were kept from voting and new laws were created to imprison them, and laws written to take the right to vote away from prisoners who always had the right to vote in prison before the civil war if white.... and segregation etc etc etc

History shows they were not put up, for any kind of goodness or commemoration in a good sense of an alleged war hero or heritage.

That's just a fact.

so WHY is keeping these statues up, when they were placed where they are for nefarious and evil reasons, so important? Makes no sense to me???

They belong in a Museum, to commemorate History, with a lot more details.

I am fascinated. The "SPECIFIC" reason for putting up a statue of a general like Robert
E Lee was to "INTIMIDATE BLACKs......." I am not DENYING your allegation----it just seems
silly to me...... You got anything to support your allegation? Laws removing the right to
vote from felons were created SPECIFICALLY to target blacks? I assume that would be sometime
in the mid 1800s-----you got something to support that allegation?. I am not denying the fact that
blacks were oppressed in the south

Just google it Rosie, you will get a better understanding of History than if I linked up a paragraph proving my point.

In every State, prisoners had the right to vote, while in prison, but after the civil war and black men got the right to vote, all states but 2 changed their laws and took the right to vote away from prisoners because prisons were mostly being filled with black men.... and they wanted to disenfranchise the black vote.... All states but my state, Maine and Vermont changed their laws to stop the black man's vote...and the only reason Maine and Vermont did not change their laws, was because we had virtually no black people up here, and our prisoners were white.

 

[Care4all]

Several dozen torch-wielding protesters gathered Saturday in Charlottesville, Va., chanting Nazi rhetoric as well as "Russia is our friend." Mayor Mike Signer has issued a statement likening the event to a KKK demonstration.

The group congregated in Lee Park by a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, which is slated to be removed from the premises later this year following a February city council vote. Earlier in the day, protesters had also gathered at nearby Jackson Park, voicing their commitment to protecting what they called their "white heritage."

The KKK is allowed to peacefully demonstrate in America! I don't agree with their views... I don't agree with Black Lives Matter... but they have Freedom of Speech! What part of this are you not comprehending?

I don't care if you write twenty pages of accusations of what they said or symbolized... unless they called for violence or made imminent threats, they have every right to speak in the public square... just like YOU do! That's fucking AMERICA!

Hello? Did I say they were not allowed to peacefully protest?

NO, I DID NOT.

 

[Care4all]

I am fascinated. The "SPECIFIC" reason for putting up a statue of a general like Robert
E Lee was to "INTIMIDATE BLACKs......." I am not DENYING your allegation----it just seems
silly to me...... You got anything to support your allegation? Laws removing the right to
vote from felons were created SPECIFICALLY to target blacks? I assume that would be sometime
in the mid 1800s-----you got something to support that allegation?. I am not denying the fact that
blacks were oppressed in the south

There is something to be said for her argument. MANY of the Confederate monuments were erected by DEMOCRAT leaders in the wake of desegregation and Civil Rights. But like virtually every horrid thing Democrats have ever done (their history of it is long), they want to twist and distort it into the fault of Republicans.

I don't personally have an issue with statues and monuments and I think if you are such a weak person that this is an issue to you, it's a pathetic thing. That said, if a community or city wants to put up or take down a monument, it should be up to the people who live there. Not some bunch of sniveling, virtue-signalling, moron Democrats!

they were erected by southern conservatives, those who wanted to preserve the past days of slavery and yes, they were Democrats at the time....and KKK ers at the time.

 

[Boss]

Hello? Did I say they were not allowed to peacefully protest?

NO, I DID NOT.

That seems to be what you're saying. You keep posting information about what they were chanting and the symbolic nature of their demonstration. The First Amendment allows them to do that and it doesn't permit Antifa violently attacking them.

The SCOTUS has been clear on this. There is a three-prong criteria to protected free speech. In order to not be protected, it has to be 1) a call to violent action, 2) reason to believe the call is real, and 3) an imminent threat to carry out the action. IT HAS TO MEET ALL THREE MEASURES to not be protected under the First Amendment.

EVEN IF it meets all three requirements, that doesn't give another group the authority to invoke violence. It's not acceptable... it's not cool! In the event that all three criteria are met, the police and (if necessary) the National Guard are called in to disperse the protesters and make arrests if necessary. THAT is how our system works! You don't get to take the law into your own hands because you don't like what someone is saying! YOU JUST FUCKING DON'T-- PERIOD!

 

[Boss]

they were erected by southern conservatives, those who wanted to preserve the past days of slavery and yes, they were Democrats at the time....and KKK ers at the time.

No, they were ALL erected by DEMOCRATS who opposed Civil Rights! They had nothing to do with Conservatives or Republicans.

 

[Care4all]

they were erected by southern conservatives, those who wanted to preserve the past days of slavery and yes, they were Democrats at the time....and KKK ers at the time.

No, they were ALL erected by DEMOCRATS who opposed Civil Rights! They had nothing to do with Conservatives or Republicans.

I didn't say it had anything to do with Republicans at the time.... but it DID have to do with Democrats who were the conservatives of the time....Republicans were the liberals of the time...they accepted change and progression.

 

[gipper]

So you've clarified the entire issue by repeating the right wing talking points and condemning the left. How fair and balanced of you.

What are you calling "talking points?"

Pretty much everything from the beginning of 2nd graph on.

Logic is seen as 'talking points' by some on the left.

They don't know that the First protects 'hate speech'...specifically!!!

Can't fix stupid.

 

[irosie91]

I am fascinated. The "SPECIFIC" reason for putting up a statue of a general like Robert
E Lee was to "INTIMIDATE BLACKs......." I am not DENYING your allegation----it just seems
silly to me...... You got anything to support your allegation? Laws removing the right to
vote from felons were created SPECIFICALLY to target blacks? I assume that would be sometime
in the mid 1800s-----you got something to support that allegation?. I am not denying the fact that
blacks were oppressed in the south

There is something to be said for her argument. MANY of the Confederate monuments were erected by DEMOCRAT leaders in the wake of desegregation and Civil Rights. But like virtually every horrid thing Democrats have ever done (their history of it is long), they want to twist and distort it into the fault of Republicans.

I don't personally have an issue with statues and monuments and I think if you are such a weak person that this is an issue to you, it's a pathetic thing. That said, if a community or city wants to put up or take down a monument, it should be up to the people who live there. Not some bunch of sniveling, virtue-signalling, moron Democrats!

they were erected by southern conservatives, those who wanted to preserve the past days of slavery and yes, they were Democrats at the time....and KKK ers at the time.

For-all-----you do not answer my question with they were erected by KKK democrats. Way back lots of
southerners were democrats as a reaction against republican Lincoln--------you have information that the
people who erected them were MEMBERS OF THE KKK? and that the statues were erected for the
purpose of spitting at blacks and "intimidating" them?

 

[irosie91]

The era the statues were erected were not to commemorate the South's best Traitors to the United States of America...they were put up to intimidate black people during the Jim Crow era, where black people were kept from voting and new laws were created to imprison them, and laws written to take the right to vote away from prisoners who always had the right to vote in prison before the civil war if white.... and segregation etc etc etc

History shows they were not put up, for any kind of goodness or commemoration in a good sense of an alleged war hero or heritage.

That's just a fact.

so WHY is keeping these statues up, when they were placed where they are for nefarious and evil reasons, so important? Makes no sense to me???

They belong in a Museum, to commemorate History, with a lot more details.

I am fascinated. The "SPECIFIC" reason for putting up a statue of a general like Robert
E Lee was to "INTIMIDATE BLACKs......." I am not DENYING your allegation----it just seems
silly to me...... You got anything to support your allegation? Laws removing the right to
vote from felons were created SPECIFICALLY to target blacks? I assume that would be sometime
in the mid 1800s-----you got something to support that allegation?. I am not denying the fact that
blacks were oppressed in the south

Just google it Rosie, you will get a better understanding of History than if I linked up a paragraph proving my point.

In every State, prisoners had the right to vote, while in prison, but after the civil war and black men got the right to vote, all states but 2 changed their laws and took the right to vote away from prisoners because prisons were mostly being filled with black men.... and they wanted to disenfranchise the black vote.... All states but my state, Maine and Vermont changed their laws to stop the black man's vote...and the only reason Maine and Vermont did not change their laws, was because we had virtually no black people up here, and our prisoners were white.

I googled-----I cannot find anything reliable that specifically states that the reason for passing laws
making felons ineligible to vote was for the purpose of oppressing blacks

 

[Boss]

they were erected by southern conservatives, those who wanted to preserve the past days of slavery and yes, they were Democrats at the time....and KKK ers at the time.

No, they were ALL erected by DEMOCRATS who opposed Civil Rights! They had nothing to do with Conservatives or Republicans.

I didn't say it had anything to do with Republicans at the time.... but it DID have to do with Democrats who were the conservatives of the time....Republicans were the liberals of the time...they accepted change and progression.

There was nothing whatsoever "conservative" about these Democrats. Conservatives support individual liberty and freedom. That's been the case for Republicans since Abe Lincoln. You can redefine Conservatism but I don't know how you account for progressive racists like Woodrow Wilson and Margaret Sanger. How about FDR? Was he Conservative? LBJ?

Nobody except Democrats in denial accept the myth about the parties switching. It is a claim that has never been supported by logic or evidence and is a typical example of how Democrats attempt to run away from their abhorrent past. YOU decided to tag the embarrassment Dixiecrats as "conservatives" because you're trying to expunge them from your past. All but ONE remained Democrats until the day they died.

 

[cnm]

I googled-----I cannot find anything reliable that specifically states that the reason for passing laws
making felons ineligible to vote was for the purpose of oppressing blacks

Can you find anything reliable stating literacy tests for voting were to oppress blacks?

 

[cnm]

You can redefine Conservatism

Conservatism is for the status quo. That's what it means.

 

[cnm]

Nobody except Democrats in denial accept the myth about the parties switching.

Hoho, that's why the South, which was invaded by Republicans, now votes Republican. Because the South has not switched parties. Ffs.

 

[Boss]

You can redefine Conservatism

Conservatism is for the status quo.

Well that's bullshit. Mark Levin is one of the most Conservative of all Conservatives and he's written a book calling for a convention of states to change the constitution. Doesn't sound like "status quo" to me.

I don't think many on the left know what Conservatism is, nor do you really give a shit.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you've clarified the entire issue by repeating the right wing talking points and condemning the left. How fair and balanced of you.

What are you calling "talking points?"

Pretty much everything from the beginning of 2nd graph on.

Well okay, but.... From what I've seen, many on the so-called right are running to the nearest camera and microphone to cower and capitulate to the virtue signalling left. But if you view my comments as the right wing political "talking points" then you are in for some serious ass kicking in the midterms. Because you really don't have a viable and rational counterpoint to what I said.

I really do hope that you're right and this is going to be the "talking points" the electorate has to consider in 2018. You'll be obliterated as a political party in America, if that's the case. You want to stand up and denounce the First Amendment, throw your support behind a violent mob who refuses to accept freedom of speech? Be my fucking guest! You want to put yourself in the corner of radical domestic terrorists like Antifa while you accuse essentially 63 million people of being racists and white supremacists? Goodbye Democratic Party! Been nice knowing you!

If you say so. The so called Unite the right might not be a racist group, but they certainly advertised their rally on plenty of Hate Group sites.

The Twitter account of Jason Kessler, the alt-right activist and organizer of last weekend’s deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, tweeted that the woman who died protesting his event “was a fat, disgusting Communist” and that her death was “payback time” — then walked back the remark and blamed it on drugs and alcohol.

“Heather Heyer was a fat, disgusting Communist. Communists have killed 94 million,” his account tweeted Friday. “Looks like it was payback time.”

The tweet included a link to a now-infamous article published on The Daily Stormer white supremacist website last weekend hours after Heyer, 33, died while protesting Mr. Kessler’s “Unite the Right” rally.

The tweet disappeared from Mr. Kessler’s Twitter account Saturday morning and in its place emerged an explanation. He said ignore the tweet because he was drunk.

I suppose there might be some nonviolent right wingers, but that particular situation didn't show any sign of them.

 

[Care4all]

I am fascinated. The "SPECIFIC" reason for putting up a statue of a general like Robert
E Lee was to "INTIMIDATE BLACKs......." I am not DENYING your allegation----it just seems
silly to me...... You got anything to support your allegation? Laws removing the right to
vote from felons were created SPECIFICALLY to target blacks? I assume that would be sometime
in the mid 1800s-----you got something to support that allegation?. I am not denying the fact that
blacks were oppressed in the south

There is something to be said for her argument. MANY of the Confederate monuments were erected by DEMOCRAT leaders in the wake of desegregation and Civil Rights. But like virtually every horrid thing Democrats have ever done (their history of it is long), they want to twist and distort it into the fault of Republicans.

I don't personally have an issue with statues and monuments and I think if you are such a weak person that this is an issue to you, it's a pathetic thing. That said, if a community or city wants to put up or take down a monument, it should be up to the people who live there. Not some bunch of sniveling, virtue-signalling, moron Democrats!

they were erected by southern conservatives, those who wanted to preserve the past days of slavery and yes, they were Democrats at the time....and KKK ers at the time.

For-all-----you do not answer my question with they were erected by KKK democrats. Way back lots of
southerners were democrats as a reaction against republican Lincoln--------you have information that the
people who erected them were MEMBERS OF THE KKK? and that the statues were erected for the
purpose of spitting at blacks and "intimidating" them?

google is your Friend Rosie!

Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Jim Crow law | History & Facts

 

[BULLDOG]

I know we've beaten this topic to death here and there must be at least a few dozen threads on the topic at least, but I feel like there is a profound point or two that needs to be made. You can agree with me or disagree, I don't really care. This is simply my viewpoint on the situation as a whole.

First of all, to view this as a binary left/right issue is patently stupid. In fact, to view this as a singular issue is equally foolish. This is actually several issues rolled into one and it's being promoted as a binary narrative by the media and the liberal left, as well as many on the right who've fallen for the trap.

Let's get some things in order so we have clarity. Charlottesville had proposed removing a Confederate monument citing it's offensiveness to certain citizens. A group of people who opposed this obtained a permit to peacefully protest the removal. The group was "Unite the Right" ...not a hate group, not white supremacists. However, several neo-nazi and KKK hate groups showed up to join the protest. Also showing up was Antifa, a radical extremist left organization who came to violently protest the protesters. The police, whether overtly or passively, were instructed to not intervene and violence erupted between the fringe extremist elements at the protest. It quickly got out of control and resulted in a slimeball white supremacist killing someone with his car.

Since then, the left has exploited the tragedy to score political points and bash Trump, Republicans, the right, Conservatives and everyone who is not a left wing liberal. The right, for the most part, have condemned the actions of the white supremacists and the violence from both sides while questioning where the police were. Trump made the statement that "there were good people on both sides." This was immediately attacked by the left and media who are fully invested in a binary narrative.

Trump was correct. There were good people on both sides. Not both sides of the violent extremist groups, but both sides of the issue regarding the removal of the statue. The peaceful protesters who didn't engage in violence. They were there to exercise their First Amendment rights. And this is where the left (and some on the right) are completely missing the point. There is more than one issue here!

First there is the issue of whether or not a Confederate statue is appropriate. Some say yes, some say no, and it doesn't have anything to do with racism or white supremacy. No doubt, there are some who favor keeping the statues who are white supremacists. There are also some who favor tearing down the statues because they hold a racist view toward white people. But these elements do not represent the vast majority of the general public. Most people who favor keeping the statues are viewing it as a historical thing that we shouldn't change because some may be offended. Most people opposed are doing so in deference to sensitivities of those who are offended. Both sides have a valid and compelling point that has nothing to do with white supremacy.

In a free society, we should be able to engage in these kind of debates without things devolving into violence. We cannot condemn violence from one side while turning a blind eye to violence from the other. We have to consistently condemn ALL the violence because that's how free society operates.

So now we see there is a clear secondary issue here. It's the right of free people to peacefully protest. Whether you agree or disagree with the right or left on this issue or any other, you should support their right to peacefully demonstrate. Violence is totally unacceptable... right OR left! It doesn't matter if you view one side as abhorrent and intolerable, they still have the right to peacefully demonstrate and you don't have the right to violently attack them.

Some on the Left have attempted to argue that "Hate Speech" isn't protected by the First Amendment. This is patently absurd. So-called "Hate Speech" is exactly what IS protected! Non-offensive speech doesn't require protection. The Left has concocted this "Hate Speech" label to apply to any speech they disagree with politically, and that's a very dangerous thing to do. You can denounce what you consider "hate speech" but you don't have any right to shut it down, especially not with violence. Once you've crossed that line into violent acts, you've lost your freedom of speech and you need to go to jail.

So you've clarified the entire issue by repeating the right wing talking points and condemning the left. How fair and balanced of you.

You mean he posted the facts. We know you would be against that.

Shup Fingerboy.