Here's a tip: Don't

[Andylusion]

Never seen one grovel. Never seen one ask for a tip. Never seen one hold a gun to a customers head.

Where do you get this information?

What happens if you refuse to tip because you don't believe in it, and then return to the establishment?

I'd expect crap service

No no no. There is a restaurant that I have been going to for years. There have been several times where I have not tipped, because the service was poor.

The people who serve me well, get tipped well.

The people who serve me poorly, get tipped poorly if at all.

The result has been that good servers WANT to be server. Bad servers tend to move on to something else.... which is good for all customers.

I have never once gone to a restaurant where the people said "oh there's that guy that tips really well if you do well" and end up with crap service because I didn't tip bad servers.

 

[BlackSand]

Look at the nincompoops in this thread that preach about wanting to pay more for their meal so they don't have to tip ... And the management can pay higher wages.

It isn't the people who have worked for tips … Because people like me know you can make a hell of a lot more money from tips than from wages.
It is people who want to take the opportunity away from those who perform better to be compensated better than their counterparts.
I mean face it … Whether a tip or an increased price … It is the same money with the exception of who you give it to and exactly how much you decide to tip.

If you don't like the tipping … Don't tip … But certainly don't screw it up for the people who give good service and get rewarded for their efforts because you want to support redistribution through wages rather than effort and talent.

.

 

[Unkotare]

Bingo, we have a winner! Key word is AGREED.

And so we can agree to a better way of doing things too.

Deflection is the admission of a lost argument.

That was in no way a deflection. Don't use words you don't understand.

 

[Unkotare]

Never seen one grovel. Never seen one ask for a tip. Never seen one hold a gun to a customers head.

Where do you get this information?

What happens if you refuse to tip because you don't believe in it, and then return to the establishment?

I'd expect crap service

An establishment offering crap service should go out of business.

 

[Unkotare]

You can say "wrong" all you want... and you are the one wrong. I've been there... I've done that.... I know the difference.

Sorry.

I've been there...I've done that...I know the difference. You're wrong.

You have the right to be wrong.

I do indeed, but I'm not in this case.

 

[Unkotare]

I want them to not get the tip when they perform badly.

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

 

[Unkotare]

It is people who want to take the opportunity away from those who perform better to be compensated better than their counterparts.

.

That's a lie. No one has so much as suggested that. You are lying, which suggests you have run out of actual argument. Good workers should be better compensated. Doing so is the job of the owner, not the individual customer.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

I don't mind tipping if it's voluntary.

If it's mandatory, they'll not get my business.

It practically is expected. What happens when you don't tip? Shitty service. People refuse to do the jobs they are paid to do simply because I refuse to line their pockets with money they beg for.

Just pay the poor sods more.

It's called the free market - you are not paying someone to clean up after you when you eat like a pig - quite naturally, they give you crappy service the next time ... or worse.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

It is people who want to take the opportunity away from those who perform better to be compensated better than their counterparts.

.

That's a lie. No one has so much as suggested that. You are lying, which suggests you have run out of actual argument. Good workers should be better compensated. Doing so is the job of the owner, not the individual customer.

Again - how does the owner come up with the money to pay for this? Hint - he either raises the price of the menu, or goes out of business.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

I want them to not get the tip when they perform badly.

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

They shouldn't get paid? I'm confused, you want the tip to come out of company profits and expect the restaurant to NOT raise prices?

 

[Sarah G]

I want them to not get the tip when they perform badly.

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

I think you should be fired from this thread. You're performing very badly here.

Now get out!

 

[Unkotare]

It is people who want to take the opportunity away from those who perform better to be compensated better than their counterparts.

.

That's a lie. No one has so much as suggested that. You are lying, which suggests you have run out of actual argument. Good workers should be better compensated. Doing so is the job of the owner, not the individual customer.

Again - how does the owner come up with the money to pay for this?

AGAIN - he raises the prices.

 

[Unkotare]

I want them to not get the tip when they perform badly.

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

They shouldn't get paid? I'm confused, you want the tip to come out of company profits and expect the restaurant to NOT raise prices?

How many times do I have to say the same thing? Raise the prices and pay the employees.

 

[Unkotare]

I want them to not get the tip when they perform badly.

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

I think you should be fired from this thread. You're performing very badly here.

Now get out!

I started this 'business'!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

They shouldn't get paid? I'm confused, you want the tip to come out of company profits and expect the restaurant to NOT raise prices?

How many times do I have to say the same thing? Raise the prices and pay the employees.

... But you're still paying for it, only now - It's not an option.

 

[Sarah G]

When they perform badly they should be fired. This is another thing that should be the owner's responsibility, not the customer's.

I think you should be fired from this thread. You're performing very badly here.

Now get out!

I started this 'business'!

Hostile takeover. You're too dang mean.

 

[Unkotare]

They shouldn't get paid? I'm confused, you want the tip to come out of company profits and expect the restaurant to NOT raise prices?

How many times do I have to say the same thing? Raise the prices and pay the employees.

... But you're still paying for it, only now - It's not an option.

Sounds good to me. As long as you leave me out of employee compensation negotiations and stop with the little song and dance. Charge a price for a meal, pay the price for the meal, go home.

 

[Unkotare]

I think you should be fired from this thread. You're performing very badly here.

Now get out!

I started this 'business'!

Hostile takeover. You're too dang mean.

You can't do this to me! I started this thread when it was nothing, nothing I say!

 

[Andylusion]

What happens if you refuse to tip because you don't believe in it, and then return to the establishment?

I'd expect crap service

An establishment offering crap service should go out of business.

Have you ever managed anything? Anything at all in the customer service arena?

See in Japan, where they have no tipping system, that works.... because Japanese even on their worst days are extremely polite. Japanese have a culture of working their hardest for the good of the country.

In that environment and culture, it's pretty easy to have great service, without much effort.

Here in America, it's simply not that way. I wish it was! But it's not. I've been in some places where the service was absolutely TERRIBLE. Where the servers were snippy and almost rude.

I wish we were like Japan. I seriously do. And then, there would in fact be, no reason whatsoever to have a tipping system.

But if you think you can eliminate that system, and have Japan quality service, you are wrong and crazy. You can't watch every single server, and monitor all service. You can't make sure people get the highest quality service at all times. Not possible. Even if you installed cameras at every angle in the entire store, the net result would be the customers would leave feeling like they were under surveillance.

So how do you propose to enforce quality service? Most customers when they get lack luster service, simply don't go back to that store. I'm one of those. I know a specific place that the service was poor. I didn't talk to management, I simply don't go back. The management possibly never knew the service was poor.

And when service is exceptionally good, people tend to not say much to management then either.

So what system would *YOU* if you were the manager, would you put in place to insure quality service?

For most managers, the best solution is the tipping system. You don't have to monitor every individual, because the customer rewards and punishes individuals on their own, with the tip. You provide good service, I tip you well. You provide poor service, or bad service, I don't tip as much, or at all.

Again, if this was Japan, and every server provided excelent service all the time, that would not be needed. But the fact is, this is America, and some people are flat out lazy, and do the minimum required. Not out right rude service. I've never had a waiter yell at me. But I have had marginal service.

I want to be able to not pay the tip on marginal lack luster service.

Under your system, all the prices would go up. I would end up paying the tip, regardless of service. I don't like that.

 

[Pop23]

What happens if you refuse to tip because you don't believe in it, and then return to the establishment?

I'd expect crap service

An establishment offering crap service should go out of business.

Nobody should work for free, stiff a tip, get the bums rush.