Here’s a sob story about a college%educated professional who can’t support his four kids without the enchanted government child support

[Indeependent]

The current reality is that every jerkoff who writes code and is being paid way above his or her pay grade thinks they can afford a big house in the suburbs with all the accoutrements.

 

[woodwork201]

Back up dude--I didn't say anything about what was a sacrifice--if you kept up with the thread. The poster I responded to said she didn't have many vacations, she felt that was a sacrifice. Also, there are way too many in the single earner category that feel the government OWES them the same niceties as someone who sacrificed and had two earners. Sacrifices are different for different folks. I think you are just looking for something to whine about or you're a troll--you pick.

You're quite the sensitive one, aren't you?

 

[Indeependent]

Back up dude--I didn't say anything about what was a sacrifice--if you kept up with the thread. The poster I responded to said she didn't have many vacations, she felt that was a sacrifice. Also, there are way too many in the single earner category that feel the government OWES them the same niceties as someone who sacrificed and had two earners. Sacrifices are different for different folks. I think you are just looking for something to whine about or you're a troll--you pick.

Sacrifices based on income are ego oriented, not reality oriented.

 

[woodwork201]

The current reality is that every jerkoff who writes code and is being paid way above his or her pay grade thinks they can afford a big house in the suburbs with all the accoutrements.

Hmmmm.. This sounds more emotional than related to the thread topic. Who decides they're paid above their pay grade? Or that they're all jerkoffs? Did someone who writes code run off with your wife in another life?

 

[Concerned American]

live within their means,

And that is what I thought I was making very clear, but apparently not--or people on this thread are looking for hairs to split. My point has been throughout -- to live within their means. Drive an economical car NOT a BMW or Mercedes when a person is in a lower wage group. Sheesh.

 

[Concerned American]

Sacrifices based on income are ego oriented, not reality oriented.

To some buying hamburger instead of a filet mignon is a sacrifice.

 

[Indeependent]

Hmmmm.. This sounds more emotional than related to the thread topic. Who decides they're paid above their pay grade? Or that they're all jerkoffs? Did someone who writes code run off with your wife in another life?

That post was not emotional at all; it's based on the reality of capitalism and the race to dominate the Smart Device market.
From Reagan and on were the days of the Business Visa flood when 3,000,000 programmers were put out to pasture.
Prior to Trump putting the kabash on Business Visas, not one parent I know would allow their kids to take programming courses until they took all of their science course, such as math, physics, electrical and mechanical engineering, because these parents and their kids know that as soon as the dust settles, their careers as coders is over.

I'd say close to 100% of programmers were not developers (sucked) and when they lost their careers, had nothing to fall back on.

 

[woodwork201]

Check yourself. The income tax on Social Security only goes into effect once a single person has surpassed $25,000 in income--NOT COUNTING SOCIAL SECURITY. I mean that is common sense, otherwise almost everyone drawing Social Security would be paying taxes on it.

The reality is the scenario given here is unrealistic. You got an 82 year old woman that has been taking minimum distributions from her IRA and still has over three hundred grand in it, yet her earnings, or that of her husband, only get her a $2,000 month benefit, that has been increased for inflation no less than fifteen times. But even at that, she has a marginal tax rate of 1.2%, yet someone she is being punished because the OP family is getting a child tax credit. Gosh but you people are a hoot. Amazing how delusional one can be while attempting to control other people's behavior.

Your earlier post was, and I'm paraphrasing, "show me anyone on social security who makes less than 40K that pays one dime in taxes". Combine that with, and I'm paraphrasing again, "I'm a financial wizard and investment counselor and I know more than anyone here about finances including Social Security." Turns out people making well below 40K on Social Security pay taxes. I had no reason, when you posted about being an investment advisor, to doubt your word or even about Social Security and taxes.

Now, of course, we know that you didn't actually know at all what you were talking about in regards to Social Security and taxes - things we'd expect and hope our investment counselors would know. That puts into doubt everything you said about managing millions in investments for hundreds of investors, or even being an investment counselor at all. Now, based on your proven lack of knowledge, I doubt anything you have told us is true.

 

[Indeependent]

Your earlier post was, and I'm paraphrasing, "show me anyone on social security who makes less than 40K that pays one dime in taxes". Combine that with, and I'm paraphrasing again, "I'm a financial wizard and investment counselor and I know more than anyone here about finances including Social Security." Turns out people making well below 40K on Social Security pay taxes. I had no reason, when you posted about being an investment advisor, to doubt your word or even about Social Security and taxes.

Now, of course, we know that you didn't actually know at all what you were talking about in regards to Social Security and taxes - things we'd expect and hope our investment counselors would know. That puts into doubt everything you said about managing millions in investments for hundreds of investors, or even being an investment counselor at all. Now, based on your proven lack of knowledge, I doubt anything you have told us is true.

If you sound the least bit Conservative and have anything positive to say about Trump, Winston will disagree with you about the benefits of oxygen.

 

[woodwork201]

That post was not emotional at all; it's based on the reality of capitalism and the race to dominate the Smart Device market.
From Reagan and on were the days of the Business Visa flood when 3,000,000 programmers were put out to pasture.
Prior to Trump putting the kabash on Business Visas, not one parent I know would allow their kids to take programming courses until they took all of their science course, such as math, physics, electrical and mechanical engineering, because these parents and their kids know that as soon as the dust settles, their careers as coders is over.

I'd say close to 100% of programmers were not developers (sucked) and when they lost their careers, had nothing to fall back on.

Though I agree with most of your political views posted here, I'll say you don't know much at all about the software development business and those employed in it. I'm not doubting your experience with those few you know but what you're saying is not at all representative of the employment market for the last 25 years that I've been in this business. I'll tell you that when we advertise for developers, we get virtually zero qualified US citizens with any skill in what we need. We almost always have to go to H1B employees to staff our positions.

There have been some well publicized, and very crappy, stories about companies such as Accenture, IBM, etc., offshoring their work and laying off US citizens but that isn't the only story There are far more jobs in the US than there are qualified Americans to work them.

There are other problems that cause us to have far fewer skilled IT workers than jobs. These issues relate to our education system and lack of a working apprenticeship program along with entitled college graduates (of all races) that think they are worth 80K on graduation day with a CS or even an MIS degree. Big software companies realize this and could do more to fix the issue but they choose globalism over nationalism but that's a different discussion. They could influence the education system but they don't own it and aren't, by themselves, responsible for the shortcomings.

 

[Indeependent]

Though I agree with most of your political views posted here, I'll say you don't know much at all about the software development business and those employed in it. I'm not doubting your experience with those few you know but what you're saying is not at all representative of the employment market for the last 25 years that I've been in this business. I'll tell you that when we advertise for developers, we get virtually zero qualified US citizens with any skill in what we need. We almost always have to go to H1B employees to staff our positions.

There have been some well publicized, and very crappy, stories about companies such as Accenture, IBM, etc., offshoring their work and laying off US citizens but that isn't the only story There are far more jobs in the US than there are qualified Americans to work them.

There are other problems that cause us to have far fewer skilled IT workers than jobs. These issues relate to our education system and lack of a working apprenticeship program along with entitled college graduates (of all races) that think they are worth 80K on graduation day with a CS or even an MIS degree. Big software companies realize this and could do more to fix the issue but they choose globalism over nationalism but that's a different discussion. They could influence the education system but they don't own it and aren't, by themselves, responsible for the shortcomings.

I was fortunate in that I was trained by actual engineering PhDs in my first job.

I've been a DBA/Software Engineer since 1982 in NYC and Nassau County and 100% of the Indian Business Visas I have had the displeasure of working with didn't even know how to write a SQL statement that referenced 2 Tables, let alone the DBAs who didn't know what a Surrogate Key is.
Not to mention that I couldn't understand a freaking word they were saying.
And yes, I know what the "Yes, yes" phrase means...it's an insult.
Yes, they were cheap and every project they took over had to be cancelled.
You are correct in that almost no US citizens know how to develop databases or software either.

My most successful projects have been with teams of 10 or fewer developers who underwent about 10 hours of interviews before being made an offer.
I would say over 99% of people I have interviewed literally couldn't last 5 minutes without being escorted to the door.

To be honest, H1-Bs are sought because they're dirt cheap and work 24/7.
The unfortunate fact is that when they get their Green Cards they are laid off and wind up getting minimum wage jobs.
They consider going back to India worse than committing suicide.

The fact is that businesses think about developing systems the same way they think about having a baby...
9 Pregnant women giving birth in 1 month.
I do get it because business people don't want to pay someone to develop systems.

Today, however, due to the exposure of the Internet, every business entity needs a 24/7 contact point to be relevant and so companies are baiting people with huge salaries.
The bloodbath won't be pretty.

 

[woodwork201]

I was fortunate in that I was trained by actual engineering PhDs in my first job.

I've been a DBA/Software Engineer since 1982 in NYC and Nassau County and 100% of the Indian Business Visas I have had the displeasure of working with didn't even know how to write a SQL statement that referenced 2 Tables, let alone the DBAs who didn't know what a Surrogate Key is.
Not to mention that I couldn't understand a freaking word they were saying.
And yes, I know what the "Yes, yes" phrase means...it's an insult.
Yes, they were cheap and every project they took over had to be cancelled.
You are correct in that almost no US citizens know how to develop databases or software either.

My most successful projects have been with teams of 10 or fewer developers who underwent about 10 hours of interviews before being made an offer.
I would say over 99% of people I have interviewed literally couldn't last 5 minutes without being escorted to the door.

To be honest, H1-Bs are sought because they're dirt cheap and work 24/7.
The unfortunate fact is that when they get their Green Cards they are laid off and wind up getting minimum wage jobs.
They consider going back to India worse than committing suicide.

The fact is that businesses think about developing systems the same way they think about having a baby...
9 Pregnant women giving birth in 1 month.
I do get it because business people don't want to pay someone to develop systems.

Today, however, due to the exposure of the Internet, every business entity needs a 24/7 contact point to be relevant and so companies are baiting people with huge salaries.
The bloodbath won't be pretty.

My experience has been different. I have a lot of friends among the Indians with whom I've worked. Most of them I know are great human beings, hard working, and highly skilled.

 

[Anomalism]

1. If they couldn’t afford to support four kids, why did they have them?

I find this question to be generic and short-sighted. People make bad decisions. We all know that. From there it comes down to whether or not we will sit idly while people suffer because of bad decisions.

Conservatives seem to believe that people deserve whatever consequences come of their bad decisions regardless of context. I think that's a little too extreme.

 

[Concerned American]

I think that's a little too extreme.

It's a little too extreme until they achieve adulthood--then it is not too extreme. There comes a time when you are held responsible for the choices you make--no more breaks. When you sign a contract, when you choose to bring a child into the world, when you choose to break a law--it is all relevant and yes, actions have consequences. As the old saw goes, "You make your bed and you have to lie in it."

 

[Anomalism]

It's a little too extreme until they achieve adulthood--then it is not too extreme. There comes a time when you are held responsible for the choices you make--no more breaks. When you sign a contract, when you choose to bring a child into the world, when you choose to break a law--it is all relevant and yes, actions have consequences. As the old saw goes, "You make your bed and you have to lie in it."

Not making exceptions to that rule just seems callous and unworthy to me.

 

[Concerned American]

Not making exceptions to that rule just seems callous and unworthy to me.

Sorry, it's a cold hard world out there.

 

[Anomalism]

Sorry, it's a cold hard world out there.

It doesn’t have to be as cold as conservatives would have it be. By the way I'm not talking about the story in the OP particularly. I'm just talking about our general approach to these things.

 

[Lisa558]

I find this question to be generic and short-sighted. People make bad decisions. We all know that. From there it comes down to whether or not we will sit idly while people suffer because of bad decisions.

Conservatives seem to believe that people deserve whatever consequences come of their bad decisions regardless of context. I think that's a little too extreme.

The question was specifically targeted to the college-educated professional. He and his wife should have limited themselves to the number of children they could afford.

So….let’s say he made a bad decision. He now has four kids for whom he can’t afford braces (he says). Then they have two options: either they lower their standard of living so that it fits within their current means, or the wife goes to work to help maintain the standard of living they now enjoy. Getting a monthly payment from other people, who earn less and live more simply, is not a reasonable option, and this six-figure HHI family who thinks it is are being greedy and selfish.

 

[Anomalism]

The question was specifically targeted to the college-educated professional. He and his wife should have limited themselves to the number of children they could afford.

So….let’s say he made a bad decision. He now has four kids for whom he can’t afford braces (he says). Then they have two options: either they lower their standard of living so that it fits within their current means, or the wife goes to work to help maintain the standard of living they now enjoy. Getting a monthly payment from other people, who earn less and live more simply, is not a reasonable option, and this six-figure HHI family who thinks it is are being greedy and selfish.

In that case specifically you may be onto something. I've just seen conservatives use that line of reasoning a million times. "Well if they didn't want X they shouldn't have Y." It's a rationalization that lacks empathy. Sometimes that's appropriate, but not every time.

 

[Lisa558]

Your earlier post was, and I'm paraphrasing, "show me anyone on social security who makes less than 40K that pays one dime in taxes". Combine that with, and I'm paraphrasing again, "I'm a financial wizard and investment counselor and I know more than anyone here about finances including Social Security." Turns out people making well below 40K on Social Security pay taxes. I had no reason, when you posted about being an investment advisor, to doubt your word or even about Social Security and taxes.

Now, of course, we know that you didn't actually know at all what you were talking about in regards to Social Security and taxes - things we'd expect and hope our investment counselors would know. That puts into doubt everything you said about managing millions in investments for hundreds of investors, or even being an investment counselor at all. Now, based on your proven lack of knowledge, I doubt anything you have told us is true.

Winston has called me a piece of shit and told me to STFU up numerous times because I had the audacity to point out how wrong it is that an elderly person on SS, with a total income of $40k, has to keep paying taxes while a professional currently earning $150k and with multiple children he claims can’t support gets off Scott-free.

Let‘s break down how wrong and hypercritical this entitled (and rude) self-righteous leftist is:

1. Bear in mind that Winston, a professional, admitted that he had six kids and took government assistance - including food stamps - so his wife wouldn’t have to work, and he wouldn't have to cut back his standard of living. Shameful.

2. Winston is insisting that an elderly woman on a modest income of $40k, including social security, doesn’t pay a penny in taxes - and he is wrong. (Oye….he says he‘s a financial planner.) A woman getting $20,000 in SS and taking out $20,000 from her IRA will have $2500 of the SS taxable, plus her full withdrawal. That means she has taxable income of $22,500, and she will owe on that even after her standard deduction.

3. Now for the liberals clamoring how hard it is to get by on $150,000 for a family, and thus they shouldn’t pay tax, let’s consider how difficult it is to get by in $40k as a single. So let’s say Granny has to withdraw $30,000 to bring her up to $50k, which is more realistic if she’s in the city. Now $9600 of her SS is taxable, plus the $30k, meaning she now has almost $40k of taxable income. She will be paying thousands in taxes.

(continued next post…l)