Help wanted to fight the Left.

[Doug]

Would any conservative or libertarian poster to this Group be interested in taking part in a project to build a website which would be a centralized resource center for our side in the political struggle?

Some conservative and libertarian acquaintances of mind are planning to start a web site where anyone could go to find out the conservative and/or libertarian view(s) on practically anything. It would have both original essays and links to other sites.

It would be invaluable for our side in on-line debates, for students writing term papers, for anyone wanting to write a letter or article on a political topic, and for conservatives and libertarians in general.

But it will require a lot of people to help with doing research and writing.

If anyone is interested in this, can they send me an email and let me know?

I can be reached at [email protected]

 

[no1tovote4]

This Doug isn't me guys, it's a whole new Doug.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

There's really not a whole lot that libertarians have in common with modern conservatives, aside from a belief in free markets, which doesn't really seem to be much of a priority with conservatives anymore.

However, if you want a site with a wealth of resources for paleoconservatives and libertarians, there's already a couple of sites that are chock full of good articles:

www.mises.org for truly free-market economics. They are against lefty socialism, but also against right-wing socialism--merchantilism and fascism.

www.lewrockwell.com is their sister site, which is more general politics from daily columnists.

Use their search button, and you'll find well-documented and well-reasoned articles about all sorts of obscure topics. I particularly enjoy their historical articles debunking bullshit history people learn in grade school, about Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR for example. They're also great for understanding the seemingly confusing "third lever" that government can pull to draw resources from the private sector (the other two being taxes and borrowing), the Federal Reserve.

 

[007]

...but also against right-wing socialism--merchantilism and fascism.

Right wing SOCIALISM??!! Right wing FASCISM???!!! Excuse me but, you're fucking crazy.

First off, "socialism" is a classic trait of the LEFT! You know, take as a perfect example, hitlery clinton and her number one liberal LEFT story, "It Takes a ~VILLAGE~"! A story that purports a "village" is needed to raise a child, not a "mother and father". That baronbigfeat is SOCIALISM at it's core, and it comes from the LEFT, NOT the right. The left also believes in over taxing the rich to give to the poor, and that is "socialism" in it's purest form.

And FASCISM? It is the LEFT sir, that DEFENDS murdering, tyrannical dictators, NOT the right. The right fights fascism head on. The left coddles fascist, placates and makes excuses for fascist, and thinks fascist are better off left alone to continue their murdering, dictorial ways.

I would have expected you'd know these things, however you didn't, but now you do.

You're dismissed.

 

[Doug]

Baron: Thanks for the links. I get Lew Rockwell's newsletter.

Our aim is not to re-invent the wheel, so we'll be linking to many different sites, certainly to these.

But note that lots of useful anti-collectivist stuff is scattered all over the web in literally hundreds of sites. We need somewhere where people who are trying to find out the right-of-center views on an issue, or who just want to investigate the anti-collectivist thinkers, can start their search, a place where the indexing has already been done, and where they can get a bit of background on the various tendencies and personalities on the Right written as neutrally as possible. A kind of Encyclopedia of Anti-Collectivism.

Consider taking part. It should be a useful enterprise, and fun too.

Doug

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Right wing SOCIALISM??!! Right wing FASCISM???!!! Excuse me but, you're fucking crazy.

First off, "socialism" is a classic trait of the LEFT! You know, take as a perfect example, hitlery clinton and her number one liberal LEFT story, "It Takes a ~VILLAGE~"! A story that purports a "village" is needed to raise a child, not a "mother and father". That baronbigfeat is SOCIALISM at it's core, and it comes from the LEFT, NOT the right. The left also believes in over taxing the rich to give to the poor, and that is "socialism" in it's purest form.

And FASCISM? It is the LEFT sir, that DEFENDS murdering, tyrannical dictators, NOT the right. The right fights fascism head on. The left coddles fascist, placates and makes excuses for fascist, and thinks fascist are better off left alone to continue their murdering, dictorial ways.

I would have expected you'd know these things, however you didn't, but now you do.

You're dismissed.

It used to be that "socialism" (both communism and fascism, before they were dirty words) were considered "left". Then there was the old "right", which was not only against New Deal shenanigans and soft-commie programs, but also against the mindless foreign interventionism of Woodrow Wilson and FDR. It was the right that recognized that the greatest losses of freedom (and increases in taxes) occur during wartime.

But the modern right DOES support oppressive dictators, as long as they toe the US line. Or at least, right-wing politicians do (as does the left). See: Libya, Pakistan, Egypt, and other regimes we've propped up. A short history of our interventionism in the mideast alone can be found here.

Interventionism by big, muscular government at home and abroad is the key trait of all brands of socialism. In their minds, there is no problem that government cannot fix. The left and right have both supported foreign interventionism, although for slightly different reasons. Likewise, the left and right both want plenty of intervention in society and the economy, again for somewhat different reasons. Neither is a friend of laissez-faire.

Baron: Thanks for the links. I get Lew Rockwell's newsletter.

Our aim is not to re-invent the wheel, so we'll be linking to many different sites, certainly to these.

But note that lots of useful anti-collectivist stuff is scattered all over the web in literally hundreds of sites. We need somewhere where people who are trying to find out the right-of-center views on an issue, or who just want to investigate the anti-collectivist thinkers, can start their search, a place where the indexing has already been done, and where they can get a bit of background on the various tendencies and personalities on the Right written as neutrally as possible. A kind of Encyclopedia of Anti-Collectivism.

Consider taking part. It should be a useful enterprise, and fun too.

Doug

Hmm, okay. Well, here's my suggestion for what it's worth.

There's a lot of bad, cliched arguments that we've all heard before, over and over again, in various internet forums. So what you might do is have an index of commonly quoted arguments, linked to simple easy to understand replies. So the listing might look like this:

"FDR got us out of the depression"
"WWII got us out of the depression"
"We entered WWI because those damn Krauts torpedoed an unarmed boat."
"Runaway capitalism caused the great depression"
"Suburban sprawl is a sign of the free market run amok"
"The Federal Reserve is a vital tool in taming the ups and downs of the business cycle"


And so you have a huge page full of myths, and each statement is a clickable link. Ideally, you'd have arguments and sources from people who can't be attacked as being non-collectivist. For example, you might have:

*James Kunstler, "not exactly a conservative", discussing in great detail how federal interventionism, subsidies, meddling, regulations, and zoning created the modern american shithole sprawl-topia. Liberals can't really argue against a guy who shares their same motivations.

*Quotes from the founding fathers, or scans from [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400082366/qid=1134280212/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-1734287-3728867?s=books&v=glance&n=283155]Jim Powell's[/ame] books, or [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895260476/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-1734287-3728867?%5Fencoding=UTF8]Thomas Wood's[/ame] books, demonstrating the folly of interventionism, and the federal government's fraudulent entry into so many different wars. These are good of course because you can't write them off as commie pinko libs.

And I think the best thing, if possible, would be actual scanned periodicals that demonstrate the point. For example, the Kaiser's government knew the Lusitania was loaded to the gills with ammunition, and tried to run ads in all the major american papers, warning people not to get on board. People can hardly belive that's true, but when you provide a scanned periodical where the ad appears, it gives great weight to your argument. People have a tough time believing that the civil war wasn't some high-minded crusade against slavery, but the actual newspaper editorials of the era show otherwise. As soon as I get my scanner working again, I'll scan the reverse side of this Harper's Weekly, which has an editorial emphatically stating that this conflict was not started to set the slaves free:



That's how I'd do it, anyway.

 

[007]

But the modern right DOES support oppressive dictators, as long as they toe the US line.

Is that why we "didn't" take action in Iraq?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Note the second part of my sentence: "toe the line". Saddam used to toe the US line, and he was rewarded. Then he didn't, and got on our shit list. The reverse is true for terrorism-supporter and Libyan dictator Mohmar Khadaffi. He was on our shit list, but is now a "good" guy.

 

[007]

Note the second part of my sentence: "toe the line". Saddam used to toe the US line, and he was rewarded. Then he didn't, and got on our shit list. The reverse is true for terrorism-supporter and Libyan dictator Mohmar Khadaffi. He was on our shit list, but is now a "good" guy.

I would concede that an indiscriminit amount of that does go on. But I would also contend that it is the "right" that is the charging force that always takes action. The "left" is ALWAYS the first to find whatever fault they can with AMERICA FIRST, and our ENEMIES SECOND. It's happening right now as we speak, and you know it.

 

[William Joyce]

There's really not a whole lot that libertarians have in common with modern conservatives, aside from a belief in free markets, which doesn't really seem to be much of a priority with conservatives anymore.

However, if you want a site with a wealth of resources for paleoconservatives and libertarians, there's already a couple of sites that are chock full of good articles:

www.mises.org for truly free-market economics. They are against lefty socialism, but also against right-wing socialism--merchantilism and fascism.

www.lewrockwell.com is their sister site, which is more general politics from daily columnists.

Lew Rockwell is decent --- they run the amazing Fred Reed, who also runs in The American Conservative.

For conservatives who are starting to wander off the Bush/Neocon reservation, I recommend Vdare, Peter Brimelow's anti-immigration site,

http://vdare.com/

American Renaissance, Jared Taylor's racial realism site,

http://amren.com/

And The Occidental Quarterly, a print journal that unapologetically defends America's founding majority and Western civilization in general:

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/

Good stuff for those wondering what in the hell is so "conservative" about open borders, masses of Third World immigrants flooding in by the minute, English as America's second language and Kwanzaa celebrated at the White House instead of Christmas.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Lew Rockwell is decent --- they run the amazing Fred Reed, who also runs in The American Conservative.

For conservatives who are starting to wander off the Bush/Neocon reservation, I recommend Vdare, Peter Brimelow's anti-immigration site,

http://vdare.com/

American Renaissance, Jared Taylor's racial realism site,

http://amren.com/

And The Occidental Quarterly, a print journal that unapologetically defends America's founding majority and Western civilization in general:

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/

Good stuff for those wondering what in the hell is so "conservative" about open borders, masses of Third World immigrants flooding in by the minute, English as America's second language and Kwanzaa celebrated at the White House instead of Christmas.

Hey I hate to tell you this, but now that the ******* are free, whitey cant any longer use them for cheap labor. So then the bitches, err, women were used, but they got equal rights now, so the wet backs are our only resource of cheap labor.

Yea, we dont really want so many of them (wetbacks) around like we tolerated the *******, because they get to vote and everything when they become citizens. DAMN IT! Too bad slavery is illegal now, otherwise we could just enslave the brown skinned wetbacks.

Oh, and fuck those tree hugging flips (filipinos) too and all the slant eyed chincs, (orientals), ship em all back now that we cant use them for slave labor, break their backs building our stuff, fuck em, we cant let them become citizens. After all, white is right, white is might. THE WHITE RACE is superior, HEIL HITLER!

 

[007]

Hey I hate to tell you this, but now that the ******* are free, whitey cant any longer use them for cheap labor. So then the bitches, err, women were used, but they got equal rights now, so the wet backs are our only resource of cheap labor.

Yea, we dont really want so many of them (wetbacks) around like we tolerated the *******, because they get to vote and everything when they become citizens. DAMN IT! Too bad slavery is illegal now, otherwise we could just enslave the brown skinned wetbacks.

Oh, and fuck those tree hugging flips (filipinos) too and all the slant eyed chincs, (orientals), ship em all back now that we cant use them for slave labor, break their backs building our stuff, fuck em, we cant let them become citizens. After all, white is right, white is might. THE WHITE RACE is superior, HEIL HITLER!

You're pretty good at that. Seems like those thoughts have been with you awhile.

So, you having lunch with David Duke today?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

I would concede that an indiscriminit amount of that does go on. But I would also contend that it is the "right" that is the charging force that always takes action. The "left" is ALWAYS the first to find whatever fault they can with AMERICA FIRST, and our ENEMIES SECOND. It's happening right now as we speak, and you know it.

I hear "well, they did SOMETHING! they took action!" a lot. Trouble is, sometimes (often) the best thing for government to do is...nothing. It's like when lefties want to roll up their sleeves and "help" the economy out of a recession, or "help" the poor--it would have been much better had they done nothing at all. Government is a scam, and both wings of politics sell scare stories to the voters to get more money and power.

There are some elements of the left, probably even large elements, which are not really antiwar and pro freedom, they just want a different kind of war (Clinton's "humanitarian" wars under the guidance of the UN), and a different kind of all-powerful government. That's true for some, but not all.

If you haven't heard me attacking the regimes of Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Saddam, etc....it's because everyone knows they're bad, and no one here is defending them. Every once in a while I'll find a wide-eyed lefty that adores Lenin or Castro, and I thoroughly enjoy ripping them a new one.