HELP - Israel vs Palestinians - Educate me

[mdalby]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

 

[Daniyel]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

Hello Pro-Pally and welcome aboard!

 

[mdalby]

I am hardly "pro-pally". Quite the contrary. From a religious standpoint, I just naturally, generally side with Israel but I don't know how to respond to these claims. There has got to be a better source on the internet than wikipedia

 

[Daniyel]

I am hardly "pro-pally". Quite the contrary. From a religious standpoint, I just naturally, generally side with Israel but I don't know how to respond to these claims. There has got to be a better source on the internet than wikipedia

I'll let someone else answer that, I'm sorry for classifying you.

 

[Phoenall]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

Egypt along with the rest of the arab league declared war on Israel in 1948 and little Israel beat the crap out of them. Then in 1967 Egypt, Syria and Jordan declared war on Israel again only Israel pre empted the invasion and attacked Egypt first and won that war as well. Under the Geneva conventions Israel occupied the Sinai as a defensive move and held it until they negotiated a peace and mutual borders in 1979 and the occupied land was returned to Egyptian control

At no time has Israel instigated a war or stolen land that was not theirs, but they have occupied land for defence. And they have also returned the land once a peace treaty has been signed

Israel is not in the business of conquest, but they are prepared to defend themselves from attack.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

Hello Pro-Pally and welcome aboard!

MD, why don't you come right out and say that you support the Palis instead of playing these games?

 

[Lipush]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

1. Israel declared no war on Egypt in 1966(?). The Six Days War started when Egypt declared wars on Israel by closing the Tiran passages.

2. The Golan Heights are under Israeli control, and are Israeli lands. Even Assad himself figured that out. Until just before the civilian-war in Syria, it wasn't allowed for any Syrian, by law, says anything regarding the Golan which may trigger a war with Israel. As for the West Bank and Gaza, niether of them is occupied.

3. Incorrect. Not only Israel never said anything about withdrawing from lands (Judea and Samaria?) it constantly pushes towards gaining control over them. The ones pushing such an idea are the left-wingers, who have become minority long ago. The only promise to withdraw was from the Gaza strip, which Israel DID fulfill, in 2005.

All the rest are ridiculous opinions, you cannot contradict them because they're not actual facts.

NEXT>!

 

[Mojo2]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

I will present them in no particular order.

You must view or read them all, however.

Mercifully, they are succinct.

 

[Mojo2]

 

[Indeependent]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

And so you seek out objective knowledge of the history of Israel.
The first step is simple...Goto Wikipedia or any other site that is not overtly subjective.
For instance, avoid IFuckingLoveJews.org or IFuckingHateJews.org.

For a broader perspective on Muslim and Jewish behavior, catch up a bit with CNN and BBC on what's going on in the Middle East where Jews are nowhere to be found.

Study Jewish assimilation into European societies; we don't start riots and burn cities when denied food stamps or the local nation doesn't adopt Torah law.

Study Muslim assimilation into European societies; especially Muslim activity in France, England and Spain in the last 5-8 years.

 

[Mojo2]

 

[Mojo2]

The conflict is not about land or borders. If it was the conflict would have been solved long ago.

Its about Islam.

 

[Mojo2]

 

[Ibentoken]

As soon as someone mentions "land" I ignore them. This is not about land. This is about survival.

 

[Mojo2]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

One final and indispensable bit of knowledge you MUST have is the Hamas Covenant.

Essentially, it tells us the conflict is religious in nature and particularly, Islamic. And it allows for only a Muslim victory over the Jews and not by way of negotiations but through Jihad ONLY.

When your peers ask rhetorically, "Why can't they settle that darned Palestinian/Israeli conflict?" You will be able to answer them, "it's because of Islam."

9 Things You Need To Know About Hamas — Straight From Its Charter

9:17 PM 07/22/2014


Before you comment on the latest conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, you really have to read the charter upon which the terrorist group Hamas was founded.

To understand Israel’s enemy in Gaza, you have know why the group was constituted. And it wasn’t constituted to negotiate a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Hamas was founded in December 1987. In August 1988, it issued a covenant outlining its mission. The covenant has never been renounced by Hamas, even though some try to claim it is now merely a historical artifact.

Here are nine key takeaways about Hamas, taken straight from its charter.

1.) Hamas isn’t looking to negotiate a peace deal with Israel. It wants to destroy Israel. Quoting Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna, the charter reads:

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”​

2.) Actually, Hamas’ charter goes beyond destroying Israel. It longs for Jewish genocide:

“The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”​

3.) The international community may love the peace process, but Hamas makes it clear in its charter that it doesn’t believe in peace conferences. As its charter states:

“Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.”​

4.) Unsurprisingly for an organization that supports Jewish genocide, Hamas’ charter is explicitly anti-Semitic. For instance, Hamas’ charter claims Jews — not just Israelis — are responsible for all wars:

“There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.”​

9 Things You Need To Know About Hamas | The Daily Caller

From the Hamas Charter

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.”

From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it.

But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam.

Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.

The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)

Article Fourteen: The Three Circles

The problem of the liberation of Palestine relates to three circles: the Palestinian, the Arab and the Islamic. Each one of these circles has a role to play in the struggle against Zionism and it has duties to fulfill. It would be an enormous mistake and an abysmal act of ignorance to disregard anyone of these circles. For Palestine is an Islamic land where the First Qibla and the third holiest site are located. That is also the place whence the Prophet, be Allah’s prayer and peace upon him, ascended to heavens.

“Glorified be He who carried His servant by night from the Inviolable Place of worship to the Far Distant Place of Worship, the neighborhood whereof we have blessed, that we might show him of our tokens! Lo! He, only He, is the Hearer, the Seer.” Sura XVII (al-Isra’), verse 1 In consequence of this state of affairs, the liberation of that land is an individual duty binding on all Muslims everywhere.

This is the base on which all Muslims have to regard the problem; this has to be understood by all Muslims. When the problem is dealt with on this basis, where the full potential of the three circles is mobilized, then the current circumstances will change and the day of liberation will come closer. “You are more awful as a fear in their bosoms than Allah. That is because they are a folk who understand not.” Sura LIX, (Al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 13.

Article Fifteen: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Obligation

When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad.

This would require the propagation of Islamic consciousness among the masses on all local, Arab and Islamic levels. We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters. The ‘ulama as well as educators and teachers, publicity and media men as well as the masses of the educated, and especially the youth and the elders of the Islamic Movements, must participate in this raising of consciousness. There is no escape from introducing fundamental changes in educational curricula in order to cleanse them from all vestiges of the ideological invasion which has been brought about by orientalists and missionaries.

That invasion had begun overtaking this area following the defeat of the Crusader armies by Salah a-Din el Ayyubi. The Crusaders had understood that they had no way to vanquish the Muslims unless they prepared the grounds for that with an ideological invasion which would confuse the thinking of Muslims, revile their heritage, discredit their ideals, to be followed by a military invasion.

That was to be in preparation for the Imperialist invasion, as in fact [General] Allenby acknowledged it upon his entry to Jerusalem: “Now, the Crusades are over.” General Gouraud stood on the tomb of Salah a-Din and declared: “We have returned, O Salah-a-Din!” Imperialism has been instrumental in boosting the ideological invasion and deepening its roots, and it is still pursuing this goal.

All this had paved the way to the loss of Palestine. We must imprint on the minds of generations of Muslims that the Palestinian problem is a religious one, to be dealt with on this premise. It includes Islamic holy sites such as the Aqsa Mosque, which is inexorably linked to the Holy Mosque as long as the Heaven and earth will exist, to the journey of the Messenger of Allah, be Allah’s peace and blessing upon him, to it, and to his ascension from it.

“Dwelling one day in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. The place of the whip of one among you in Paradise is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. [God’s] worshiper’s going and coming in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it.” (Told by Bukhari, Muslim Tirmidhi and Ibn Maja) I swear by that who holds in His Hands the Soul of Muhammad! I indeed wish to go to war for the sake of Allah! I will assault and kill, assault and kill, assault and kill (told by Bukhari and Muslim).

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

 

[proudveteran06]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

The Arabs initiated the 67 War.

Background & Overview - Six-Day War | Jewish Virtual Library

Syrian Front

This is just a small example.

Your friends talk about " occupation?" The reason Countries INITIATE war is to OCCUPY. Ask your friends that if the Arabs had won and they were " occupying Israel" ( The fact of the matter is that Israel would no longer exist) is they would be so " moral"

Just the ONE fact that they Blocked the Straits of Tiran was enough ! ( Obviously there was a lot more going on)

Tell your friends that the Arabs NEVER accepted those Borders and Israel does not have to accept them now. E. Jerusalem is where their most religious sites are. Israel left Gaza in 2005 and was immediately rewarded with More Rocket Fire.


This is a better explanation



Comparing Putin to Israel? Putin INITIATED WAR ON COUNTRIES THAT HAD RECOGNIZED BORDERS. The Arab Countries NEVER recognized ANY Israeli Borders.

Israel did not INITIATE the War, Go educate your friends. Keep us informed ! THANKS !

 

[Roudy]

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the Israel/Palestinian situation. I was expressing my view that I fully support Israel and their recent ground operations etc that they are taking to protect themselves. I was surprised to some degree with the level of disagreement that I received. I feel like it is common sense that Israel has to take these measures.

Some of the points he made included the following:

• Israel declared war on Egypt in 1966 and took lands that had not been theirs previously.
• Does this sound familiar with their more recent annexation of Gaza, West Bank, and The Golan Heights?
• Israel has repeatedly made promises to withdraw from areas and then continued to occupy and settle them.
• He said that Israel's stance reminds him of traditional view that cowboys and Europe had the right to conquer because they believed they were right.
• Putin's view of the world is similar to Israel. He is right and can do what he wants and could care less about truth or facts.

Unfortunately, I am not educated enough to respond to these points. Where can I go to get educated on Israel and the past that is a good source that I can trust?

Thanks in advance.

MD

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

 

[mdalby]

Thank you MoJo2. I have my homework tonight.

Is there a good podcast that is put out daily/weekly that is form the Israeli point of view? Not NPR or something like that... Something that is from the Israel side.

TIA

 

[mdalby]

ForeverYoung436,

I guess some of you just can't believe that someone is pro-Israeli?? Just because I asked for some help on how to respond to a co-worker?? A couple of you are pretty suspicious.

I will say this one more time and that is it. If you don't believe me than there is nothing more I can say. I am pro-Israeli. I have always been pro-Israeli. How can I not support Israel when we have Palestinian and Arab threats of destroying Israel. I am a Bible believer and I believe Israel has been given the land of Israel forever by a power that is mightier than any Arab/Muslim unified front against the Jews and Israel.

So, that is it. Take it or leave it. I don't care what you think. I will continue to ask questions to help get me educated. I appreciate those that can help.

MD

 

[mdalby]

One other point and I hope this will be the last that I need to defend my support of Israel. I wish there was a way that Israel could permanently take the Gaza and Judea and Samaria. I wish Israel could take the entire Temple Mount. I believe that Israel is under an incredibly impossible scenario to defend their country when we have Arab nations that share this common objective.

“Israel must be wiped off the map” 
(Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran, October 2005)

“We have repeatedly said that this cancerous tumor of a state should be removed from the region.”
(Ali Khamene’i, Islamic Republic of Iran, December 2000)

"Israel, as the Jewish state, must disappear from the map.“
(Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Hamas, October 20 1997)