Hate And Violence Knows No Politcal Boundaries...No One Has The 'Moral High Ground'

[martybegan]

I'm inclined to believe that between a neo-Nazi and someone who opposes neo-Nazism,
the latter would have the moral high ground. Sadly, I'm not surprised that the OP doesn't agree.

As usual you attempt to imply something that is not true. I completely agree that racism - Neo-Nazi-ism is vile, repugnant, and to be rejected...stamped / bred out.

You either miss or attempt to mis-represent my point that ALL violent groups motivated by any ideology, religious or political, is unacceptable. NONE of it must be tolerated. I reject the cherry-picking of groups to (deservedly) condemn for politically biased reasons / objectives.

Charlottesville is not a case in which your choice is to condemn the violent white supremacists OR condemn the violent Leftist group, both of who are responsible for the violence. BOTH should be simultaneously condemned.

So two guys have a heated political argument. One pulls out a gun and shoots the other. He shouldn't be prosecuted because they were both responsible right? The person who went way too far isn't more responsible?

The guy should be prosecuted. What you want is to prosecute everyone who was there over the acts of one guy.

 

[Brain357]

Only one side killed a person and tried to kill many.

Well so far this year only one side has tried to assassinate congresspeople.

Guess which side is that?

We are discussing the Charlottesville tragedy. Only one side killed a person while trying to kill many like a terrorist.

Oh no you fucking don't. You don't get to limit the scope of the discussion like that.

If you want to pin the actions of one person on a whole group, it works both ways dippy.

So I guess all progressives are guilty because that guy decided to shoot up a bunch of Republicans playing baseball.

All of this talk is because of the recent tragedy. That is the tragedy trump was discussing. The right is way off focus and grasping. When the evil person shot the congressman i didn't hear anyone say but trump supports racists so both sides are equally at fault. He was condemned by both sides with no excuses.

So far all we know is the car idiot acted alone with no help or instructions to do what he did.

And when you try to say any conservative = Nazi just because we support the 1st amendment, you try to link us to the car idiot, as he is linked to the white power morons.

So i just did the same thing to you, feels sucky doesn't it?

I haven't linked conservative to the racist scum, you just did though.

 

[easyt65]

Yes they have the right. But when one side kills a person and tries to kill many it is clear who is at fault for the tragedy.

I agree that the POS in the car is to blame for ramming his car into the crowd and for the murder of the young woman. I blame the hate-driven ideology that drove the individual to do so. I can not blame every white supremacist for the actual murder, but I do hold them all as 'accomplices', if you will.

I still do not place all the blame, nor should it be so, on the white supremacists for the violence in Charlottesville. the Leftists clearly showed up with the intent to physically carry out attacks on the protestors using balloons filled with urine, ink , and paint and other chemicals.

No matter how you cut it, no matter how you try to justify it, both groups broke the law, both groups engaged in and escalated the violence, and both groups share partial - not equal - blame for the violence.

 

[Brain357]

I'm inclined to believe that between a neo-Nazi and someone who opposes neo-Nazism,
the latter would have the moral high ground. Sadly, I'm not surprised that the OP doesn't agree.

As usual you attempt to imply something that is not true. I completely agree that racism - Neo-Nazi-ism is vile, repugnant, and to be rejected...stamped / bred out.

You either miss or attempt to mis-represent my point that ALL violent groups motivated by any ideology, religious or political, is unacceptable. NONE of it must be tolerated. I reject the cherry-picking of groups to (deservedly) condemn for politically biased reasons / objectives.

Charlottesville is not a case in which your choice is to condemn the violent white supremacists OR condemn the violent Leftist group, both of who are responsible for the violence. BOTH should be simultaneously condemned.

So two guys have a heated political argument. One pulls out a gun and shoots the other. He shouldn't be prosecuted because they were both responsible right? The person who went way too far isn't more responsible?

The guy should be prosecuted. What you want is to prosecute everyone who was there over the acts of one guy.

His affiliation is clear and his actions are why we have a tragedy.

 

[Brain357]

Yes they have the right. But when one side kills a person and tries to kill many it is clear who is at fault for the tragedy.

I agree that the POS in the car is to blame for ramming his car into the crowd and for the murder of the young woman. I blame the hate-driven ideology that drove the individual to do so. I can not blame every white supremacist for the actual murder, but I do hold them all as 'accomplices', if you will.

I still do not place all the blame, nor should it be so, on the white supremacists for the violence in Charlottesville. the Leftists clearly showed up with the intent to physically carry out attacks on the protestors using balloons filled with urine, ink , and paint and other chemicals.

No matter how you cut it, no matter how you try to justify it, both groups broke the law, both groups engaged in and escalated the violence, and both groups share partial - not equal - blame for the violence.

If it was equal violence on both sides you would have a valid point. But one side killed a person while trying to kill many others. That is the whole reason this is a tragedy we are all discussing.

 

[easyt65]

I haven't linked conservative to the racist scum, you just did though.

Thank you for not doing so, as such a generalization is completely wrong. all Conservatives are no more linked to the attack by the driver of the car that perpetrated the murder in Charlottesville than all Democrats are linked to the mentally ill would-be assassin who attempted to kill GOP politicians at the baseball field.

 

[martybegan]

Well so far this year only one side has tried to assassinate congresspeople.

Guess which side is that?

We are discussing the Charlottesville tragedy. Only one side killed a person while trying to kill many like a terrorist.

Oh no you fucking don't. You don't get to limit the scope of the discussion like that.

If you want to pin the actions of one person on a whole group, it works both ways dippy.

So I guess all progressives are guilty because that guy decided to shoot up a bunch of Republicans playing baseball.

All of this talk is because of the recent tragedy. That is the tragedy trump was discussing. The right is way off focus and grasping. When the evil person shot the congressman i didn't hear anyone say but trump supports racists so both sides are equally at fault. He was condemned by both sides with no excuses.

So far all we know is the car idiot acted alone with no help or instructions to do what he did.

And when you try to say any conservative = Nazi just because we support the 1st amendment, you try to link us to the car idiot, as he is linked to the white power morons.

So i just did the same thing to you, feels sucky doesn't it?

I haven't linked conservative to the racist scum, you just did though.

It's the common progressive tactic.

 

[martybegan]

I'm inclined to believe that between a neo-Nazi and someone who opposes neo-Nazism,
the latter would have the moral high ground. Sadly, I'm not surprised that the OP doesn't agree.

As usual you attempt to imply something that is not true. I completely agree that racism - Neo-Nazi-ism is vile, repugnant, and to be rejected...stamped / bred out.

You either miss or attempt to mis-represent my point that ALL violent groups motivated by any ideology, religious or political, is unacceptable. NONE of it must be tolerated. I reject the cherry-picking of groups to (deservedly) condemn for politically biased reasons / objectives.

Charlottesville is not a case in which your choice is to condemn the violent white supremacists OR condemn the violent Leftist group, both of who are responsible for the violence. BOTH should be simultaneously condemned.

So two guys have a heated political argument. One pulls out a gun and shoots the other. He shouldn't be prosecuted because they were both responsible right? The person who went way too far isn't more responsible?

The guy should be prosecuted. What you want is to prosecute everyone who was there over the acts of one guy.

His affiliation is clear and his actions are why we have a tragedy.

So that excuses all the violence from the left that day?

 

[Timmy]

Only one side killed a person and tried to kill many.

Apparently those protesting AGAINST NAZIS and KKKrs have no higher moral ground.....

No no no. You should just let nazis march without any counter protest .

Because history shows that letting nazis march and spread propaganda unchecked doesn't lead to anything bad .

 

[easyt65]

If it was equal violence on both sides you would have a valid point. But one side killed a person while trying to kill many others. That is the whole reason this is a tragedy we are all discussing.

I did not say there was 'equal violence'. I, and the President, believe there is blame - not equal blame - to be shared by both sides for the violence - not equal violence - in Charlottesville.

The death of the woman is a tragedy. A lesser tragedy is that there was violence at all, that there were people hurt, that these hate groups exist, that ANY hate groups, no matter their ideological / political views, exist and / or are tolerated / defended. Those, however, pale in comparison to the senseless death of the young woman.

Just a side question: Do you think the car incident would have occurred if the Charlottesville police would have contained the situation from the start, prevented / minimized the violence, kept it from getting out of control?
(I am not seeking to blame the police, to say in any way it was their fault - obviously the fault lies solely with the driver.)

 

[Brain357]

I'm inclined to believe that between a neo-Nazi and someone who opposes neo-Nazism,
the latter would have the moral high ground. Sadly, I'm not surprised that the OP doesn't agree.

As usual you attempt to imply something that is not true. I completely agree that racism - Neo-Nazi-ism is vile, repugnant, and to be rejected...stamped / bred out.

You either miss or attempt to mis-represent my point that ALL violent groups motivated by any ideology, religious or political, is unacceptable. NONE of it must be tolerated. I reject the cherry-picking of groups to (deservedly) condemn for politically biased reasons / objectives.

Charlottesville is not a case in which your choice is to condemn the violent white supremacists OR condemn the violent Leftist group, both of who are responsible for the violence. BOTH should be simultaneously condemned.

So two guys have a heated political argument. One pulls out a gun and shoots the other. He shouldn't be prosecuted because they were both responsible right? The person who went way too far isn't more responsible?

The guy should be prosecuted. What you want is to prosecute everyone who was there over the acts of one guy.

His affiliation is clear and his actions are why we have a tragedy.

So that excuses all the violence from the left that day?

It is not equal when one side kills somebody while trying to kill many. Protestors should be non violent. When discussing a tragedy the blame should go to the reason for the tragedy. The tragedy is that a girl was killed. The affiliation of the killer is clear.

 

[easyt65]

No no no. You should just let nazis march without any counter protest .

The US Constitution provides the Right of Americans to peacefully assemble and of Freedom of Speech. Those rights are granted, whether you or I like it, to these white supremacists as well. That right also pertains to the opposing protestors.

I have no problem with anyone exercising those rights...I have no problem with the opposing protestors protesting the white supremacists....

...but that is not the only thing they showed up with the intent to do. In fact, they showed up with the very REAL intent to violate the Constitution by engaging in VIOLENT assembly, with the intent of denying the other group their right to assemble and speak, with the intent to physically, illegally assault the other group....thus the chemicals and the balloons filled with their urine, ink, and pain....

....unless you are going to try to say that it was a coincidence the Leftist protestors just happened to be carrying around balloons filled with their pee, ink, and paint - like the 'video protestors' in Benghazi just happened to be carrying RPGs that night they went for a walk and suddenly decided to protest the US compound - and ended up using them once they were viciously provoked.

I have no problem with you advocating the protest of the vile white supremacists...it's the advocating of violence against them, if that is what you are doing, that I do not agree with.

 

[Brain357]

If it was equal violence on both sides you would have a valid point. But one side killed a person while trying to kill many others. That is the whole reason this is a tragedy we are all discussing.

I did not say there was 'equal violence'. I, and the President, believe there is blame - not equal blame - to be shared by both sides for the violence - not equal violence - in Charlottesville.

The death of the woman is a tragedy. A lesser tragedy is that there was violence at all, that there were people hurt, that these hate groups exist, that ANY hate groups, no matter their ideological / political views, exist and / or are tolerated / defended. Those, however, pale in comparison to the senseless death of the young woman.

Just a side question: Do you think the car incident would have occurred if the Charlottesville police would have contained the situation from the start, prevented / minimized the violence, kept it from getting out of control?
(I am not seeking to blame the police, to say in any way it was their fault - obviously the fault lies solely with the driver.)

The problem is the president gives the impression of equal blame. He even tried to relate to them by discussing the statues. Given one side went way too far there should be no confusion that there is equal blame.

 

[Crixus]

Only one side killed a person and tried to kill many.[/QUOTE



And in the past two gay men rapes an13 year old to death. Left own that one? And don't forget, a black democrat Obama voter shot 5 cops in Dallas. So one side did both of those so democrats support rape and race killings.

 

[easyt65]

The affiliation of the killer is clear.

It was affiliated with FORD, right?!

Sorry, bad, tasteless joke, but I knew what you meant. The affiliation of the DRIVER of the car is clear. I agree.

 

[Brain357]

If it was equal violence on both sides you would have a valid point. But one side killed a person while trying to kill many others. That is the whole reason this is a tragedy we are all discussing.

I did not say there was 'equal violence'. I, and the President, believe there is blame - not equal blame - to be shared by both sides for the violence - not equal violence - in Charlottesville.

The death of the woman is a tragedy. A lesser tragedy is that there was violence at all, that there were people hurt, that these hate groups exist, that ANY hate groups, no matter their ideological / political views, exist and / or are tolerated / defended. Those, however, pale in comparison to the senseless death of the young woman.

Just a side question: Do you think the car incident would have occurred if the Charlottesville police would have contained the situation from the start, prevented / minimized the violence, kept it from getting out of control?
(I am not seeking to blame the police, to say in any way it was their fault - obviously the fault lies solely with the driver.)

Not an expert on policing. I suspect the guy went there intent on trying to kill people.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

There is a group in this country acting just like the Taliban in its zeal to destroy any monument from the past that does not march in lockstep with its extremely rigid world view.

There is another group in this country with utterly odious opinions regarding race, ethnicity, and whose own inferiority complexes lead them to assuage such by assigning a sense of superiority to their skin color.

While the first group is magnitudes greater than the second, the press tries to play up the latter as representative of a wider segment of the population than it represents, and downplays both the pervasiveness of the first group and the intolerance they represent.

Meanwhile, those with low IQS defend one or the other because all they know is that they are on team left and so must defend the new Taliban or team right and so must defend the old guard racists. The truth of the matter is that it is the MEDIA that is hoodwinking these stupid people into taking such sides, as they manipulate the populace by promoting the extremes as the status quo instead of treating them as the extremes they actually represent. It's almost as if the media WANTS there to be a race war, the way they manipulate public opinion.

 

[Brain357]

Only one side killed a person and tried to kill many.[/QUOTE



And in the past two gay men rapes an13 year old to death. Left own that one? And don't forget, a black democrat Obama voter shot 5 cops in Dallas. So one side did both of those so democrats support rape and race killings.

The one side is the racist scum. Don't blur the line between them and conservatives. The right does not own this tragedy. The racists at Charlottesville own it.

 

[easyt65]

The problem is the president gives the impression of equal blame.

I completely disagree. I believe it was PERCEIVED by many that way. AT NO TIME did President Trump declare there was EQUAL blame:


"Racism is evil -- and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans," Trump said in response to the attacks in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend."
- http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/trump-condemns-charlottesville-attackers/index.html


I challenge you to show me where in his statement the President assigns EQUAL blame. It simply is not there.

Those who hate the President heard what they wanted to hear, read into his words what they wanted to read, and have condemned him, as you did, for something he did not say / do.

 

[Crixus]

Only one side killed a person and tried to kill many.[/QUOTE



And in the past two gay men rapes an13 year old to death. Left own that one? And don't forget, a black democrat Obama voter shot 5 cops in Dallas. So one side did both of those so democrats support rape and race killings.

The one side is the racist scum. Don't blur the line between them and conservatives. The right does not own this tragedy. The racists at Charlottesville own it.

The group as a whole are corrupt mother fuckers. They are no better then the trash in Charlottesville.