Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
 

iceberg

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
and that's all well and good - i wouldn't argue against it.

but that wasn't the question he responded to.

so - given the limited nature of the question he was asked, was it his fault for the delay in testing equipment? i'll be glad to discuss the others individually and within context - but for this one; the media has gone crazy in saying does not accept responsibility for ... ... ... what? it does seem they expanded his answer to a lot of questions that he was not asked.

was he responsible for the delay in testing equipment? if no, fine. if yes, how.

as to his style - irrelevant to this one question. no, i don't like it either but it has no bearing on whether or not he answered the question correctly. but again, we can talk about that on its own.
True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would hold him responsible for that delay.
then is the press and the left trying to make it sound like he was talking about a much wider scope? i don't find a lot of honesty in that approach and i don't see how that type of dishonesty helps ANY of us get back to our normal lives any time soon.

then again maybe this is the new normal. seems we keep getting worse til we say ENOUGH - EVERYONE OUT OF THE POOL. and start over.

not defending trump, but what they're saying about him is every bit the lie they claim he does. maybe he does. but this is no different then.
 

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
and that's all well and good - i wouldn't argue against it.

but that wasn't the question he responded to.

so - given the limited nature of the question he was asked, was it his fault for the delay in testing equipment? i'll be glad to discuss the others individually and within context - but for this one; the media has gone crazy in saying does not accept responsibility for ... ... ... what? it does seem they expanded his answer to a lot of questions that he was not asked.

was he responsible for the delay in testing equipment? if no, fine. if yes, how.

as to his style - irrelevant to this one question. no, i don't like it either but it has no bearing on whether or not he answered the question correctly. but again, we can talk about that on its own.
True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would hold him responsible for that delay.
then is the press and the left trying to make it sound like he was talking about a much wider scope? i don't find a lot of honesty in that approach and i don't see how that type of dishonesty helps ANY of us get back to our normal lives any time soon.

then again maybe this is the new normal. seems we keep getting worse til we say ENOUGH - EVERYONE OUT OF THE POOL. and start over.

not defending trump, but what they're saying about him is every bit the lie they claim he does. maybe he does. but this is no different then.
Meant to say would NOT hold him responsible for that delay, typing one fingered on an iPad seems to end up skipping words, argh.
 
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iceberg

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
and that's all well and good - i wouldn't argue against it.

but that wasn't the question he responded to.

so - given the limited nature of the question he was asked, was it his fault for the delay in testing equipment? i'll be glad to discuss the others individually and within context - but for this one; the media has gone crazy in saying does not accept responsibility for ... ... ... what? it does seem they expanded his answer to a lot of questions that he was not asked.

was he responsible for the delay in testing equipment? if no, fine. if yes, how.

as to his style - irrelevant to this one question. no, i don't like it either but it has no bearing on whether or not he answered the question correctly. but again, we can talk about that on its own.
True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would hold him responsible for that delay.
then is the press and the left trying to make it sound like he was talking about a much wider scope? i don't find a lot of honesty in that approach and i don't see how that type of dishonesty helps ANY of us get back to our normal lives any time soon.

then again maybe this is the new normal. seems we keep getting worse til we say ENOUGH - EVERYONE OUT OF THE POOL. and start over.

not defending trump, but what they're saying about him is every bit the lie they claim he does. maybe he does. but this is no different then.
Meant to say would NOT hold him responsible for that delay, typing one fingered on an iPad seems to end up skipping words, argh.
lord i go back and read my posts and times and i have to wonder if i ever really stopped drinking after all. :)

appreciate the conversation.
 

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1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't.
Ah, President Obama left "empty shelves". Or so Trump said, as always the epitome of veracity and accuracy. Sigh.
 

progressive hunter

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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
which ones???can you list any??/
Already did, several times, in this thread.
I havent seen a single policy,,,just things you claimed you could do better,,,
 
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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
which ones???can you list any??/
Already did, several times, in this thread.
I havent seen a single policy,,,just things you claimed you could do better,,,
You must be trolling a different thread then.
 

Olde Europe

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True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
Here is how you yourself outlined the way in which he is in fact responsible for the delayed and bungled testing:

"2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled."

For if you hire unqualified goofs, loyalists, all speaking over the other pursuing vastly different aims, no good result will be achieved. Trump is not the head of the CDC, tasked with overseeing the development of tests. He is tasked with assembling teams that coordinate well, and have the qualifications and skills to get the job done.

And this is how a competent administration, headed by one who actually cares for the job and how it impacts others, works on that matter:

From First Case to Approved Test: Two Weeks

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.​

Two weeks. That's how to get ahead of a pandemic, how to jump-start pervasive testing, and get ahead with the development with both educating the public and the development of medication / vaccines.

Trump, meanwhile, was out campaigning, was fighting twitter wars, almost got into a real war with Iran, and also did not forget to fire people who crossed him during the impeachment he brought upon himself.

Because Trump, as we got to learn, cares about the "big stuff" - like his reelection.
 
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True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
Here is how you yourself outlined the way in which he is in fact responsible for the delayed and bungled testing:

"2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled."

For if you hire unqualified goofs, loyalists, all speaking over the other pursuing vastly different aims, no good result will be achieved. Trump is not the head of the CDC, tasked with overseeing the development of tests. He is tasked with assembling teams that coordinate well, and have the qualifications and skills to get the job done.

And this is how a competent administration, headed by one who actually cares for the job and how it impacts others, works on that matter:

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.​
Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.​

Two weeks. That's how to get ahead of a pandemic, how to jump-start pervasive testing, and get ahead with the development with both educating the public and the development of medication / vaccines.

Trump, meanwhile, was out campaigning, was fighting twitter wars, almost got into a real war with Iran, and also did not forget to fire people who crossed him during the impeachment he brought upon himself.

Because Trump, as we got to learn, cares about the "big stuff" - like his reelection.
Wish I could mark this as informative...
 

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True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
Here is how you yourself outlined the way in which he is in fact responsible for the delayed and bungled testing:

"2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled."

For if you hire unqualified goofs, loyalists, all speaking over the other pursuing vastly different aims, no good result will be achieved. Trump is not the head of the CDC, tasked with overseeing the development of tests. He is tasked with assembling teams that coordinate well, and have the qualifications and skills to get the job done.

And this is how a competent administration, headed by one who actually cares for the job and how it impacts others, works on that matter:

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.​
Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.​

Two weeks. That's how to get ahead of a pandemic, how to jump-start pervasive testing, and get ahead with the development with both educating the public and the development of medication / vaccines.

Trump, meanwhile, was out campaigning, was fighting twitter wars, almost got into a real war with Iran, and also did not forget to fire people who crossed him during the impeachment he brought upon himself.

Because Trump, as we got to learn, cares about the "big stuff" - like his reelection.
You have got to be kidding me. Now I know why Europe is in such trouble. Thinking like that.
 

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True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
Here is how you yourself outlined the way in which he is in fact responsible for the delayed and bungled testing:

"2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled."

For if you hire unqualified goofs, loyalists, all speaking over the other pursuing vastly different aims, no good result will be achieved. Trump is not the head of the CDC, tasked with overseeing the development of tests. He is tasked with assembling teams that coordinate well, and have the qualifications and skills to get the job done.

And this is how a competent administration, headed by one who actually cares for the job and how it impacts others, works on that matter:

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.​
Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.​

Two weeks. That's how to get ahead of a pandemic, how to jump-start pervasive testing, and get ahead with the development with both educating the public and the development of medication / vaccines.

Trump, meanwhile, was out campaigning, was fighting twitter wars, almost got into a real war with Iran, and also did not forget to fire people who crossed him during the impeachment he brought upon himself.

Because Trump, as we got to learn, cares about the "big stuff" - like his reelection.
Wish I could mark this as informative...
why? saying trump was out fighting twitter wars and "other" things to imply he wasn't working on this is as bad as saying the democrats impeachment shenanigans caused a delay also.

may sound good as a talking point but it doesn't hold water under examination.

this is just someone bitter justifying it by trying to tie ends together emotionally, not factually.
 

progressive hunter

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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
which ones???can you list any??/
Already did, several times, in this thread.
I havent seen a single policy,,,just things you claimed you could do better,,,
You must be trolling a different thread then.
trolling is such a broad word with little meaning,,,your trolling now frm the back of the bus complaining about shit you yu think you can do better,,,

fact is we are all trolls with nthing more than our opinions,,,and its clear yours is less about reality and more about your personal view,,,

its Ok though cause we all still lve you,,,
 
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True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
Here is how you yourself outlined the way in which he is in fact responsible for the delayed and bungled testing:

"2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled."

For if you hire unqualified goofs, loyalists, all speaking over the other pursuing vastly different aims, no good result will be achieved. Trump is not the head of the CDC, tasked with overseeing the development of tests. He is tasked with assembling teams that coordinate well, and have the qualifications and skills to get the job done.

And this is how a competent administration, headed by one who actually cares for the job and how it impacts others, works on that matter:

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.​
Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.​

Two weeks. That's how to get ahead of a pandemic, how to jump-start pervasive testing, and get ahead with the development with both educating the public and the development of medication / vaccines.

Trump, meanwhile, was out campaigning, was fighting twitter wars, almost got into a real war with Iran, and also did not forget to fire people who crossed him during the impeachment he brought upon himself.

Because Trump, as we got to learn, cares about the "big stuff" - like his reelection.
Wish I could mark this as informative...
why? saying trump was out fighting twitter wars and "other" things to imply he wasn't working on this is as bad as saying the democrats impeachment shenanigans caused a delay also.

may sound good as a talking point but it doesn't hold water under examination.

this is just someone bitter justifying it by trying to tie ends together emotionally, not factually.
Well, I would say he points out several things (ignoring the stuff about twitter wars) and it boils down to two important themes: getting a jump start on the pandemic and a timely well planned and coordinated response (and this goes back to leadership, choosing qualified people and following their advice).

The timeline for H1N1 could have provided a template for today’s epidemic had Trump taken it seriously from the start.
 

mudwhistle

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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.
 
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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.
I already listed a few of them in this thread.
 

mudwhistle

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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.
Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?
You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.
I already listed a few of them in this thread.
You could put some in bullet comments and give me some idea what bad stuff Trump rolled out.
 

mudwhistle

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True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
Here is how you yourself outlined the way in which he is in fact responsible for the delayed and bungled testing:

"2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled."

For if you hire unqualified goofs, loyalists, all speaking over the other pursuing vastly different aims, no good result will be achieved. Trump is not the head of the CDC, tasked with overseeing the development of tests. He is tasked with assembling teams that coordinate well, and have the qualifications and skills to get the job done.

And this is how a competent administration, headed by one who actually cares for the job and how it impacts others, works on that matter:

Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.​
Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.​

Two weeks. That's how to get ahead of a pandemic, how to jump-start pervasive testing, and get ahead with the development with both educating the public and the development of medication / vaccines.

Trump, meanwhile, was out campaigning, was fighting twitter wars, almost got into a real war with Iran, and also did not forget to fire people who crossed him during the impeachment he brought upon himself.

Because Trump, as we got to learn, cares about the "big stuff" - like his reelection.
Wish I could mark this as informative...
why? saying trump was out fighting twitter wars and "other" things to imply he wasn't working on this is as bad as saying the democrats impeachment shenanigans caused a delay also.

may sound good as a talking point but it doesn't hold water under examination.

this is just someone bitter justifying it by trying to tie ends together emotionally, not factually.
Well, I would say he points out several things (ignoring the stuff about twitter wars) and it boils down to two important themes: getting a jump start on the pandemic and a timely well planned and coordinated response (and this goes back to leadership, choosing qualified people and following their advice).

The timeline for H1N1 could have provided a template for today’s epidemic had Trump taken it seriously from the start.
Yep....ignore it...the press will too......because the press doesn't want him to look bad.
Good fucking luck with that BS.
 

lantern2814

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.
Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?
Seems you’re illiterate as well as a lying, ignorant apologist for Obozo. YOU mentioned him idiot. So now you get to listen to the truth about his incompetence. So Mayberry you should take your own advice. Your desperation is clear.
dude...

the 6th grade must have been the hardest 3 years of your life.
Sorry, you lose too, take your lousy consolation prize. Calling an idiotic liar out on her idiocy is bad? Well too bad.
 

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