Happy Hiroshima Day!

[Open Bolt]

Yes. Just about everyone around Truman who knew about the bomb, told him not to do it. However, he ignored them and chose to accept advice of his long time friend James Byrnes, his future Secretary of State.

Fake news. Never happened.

Not one person ever advised Mr. Truman against using the atomic bombs.

Truman knew the Japanese wanted to surrender in May.

That is incorrect. Mr. Truman was not in the habit of "knowing" falsehoods.

Japan was only willing to contemplate surrender after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

All the Japanese asked for was we leave the Emperor alone, which Dirty Harry did

Japan's request, which came only after both atomic bombs had already been dropped, was that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity.

Mr. Truman rightfully refused, and told Japan that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.

AFTER he mass murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Wartime attacks on military targets aren't murder.

 

[Open Bolt]

Accepting the truth doesn’t make you a traitor or unpatriotic. It doesn’t minimize the tremendous sacrifices made by the American fighting man.
It does expose the war crimes committed by Truman, and the propaganda promoted by the criminals in the ruling class.

Wartime strikes against military targets are not war crimes.

Five myths about the atomic bomb
1. The bomb ended the war.
2. The bomb saved half a million American lives.
3. The only alternative to the bomb was an invasion of Japan.
4. The Japanese were warned before the bomb was dropped.
5. The bomb was timed to gain a diplomatic advantage over Russia and proved a “master card” in early Cold War politics.

4 is incorrect. Japan was warned.

1, 2, & 3 are misleading. Had Japan continued to refuse to surrender, there would have been an invasion and it would have been a bloodbath.

Why invade? Are you an imperialist?

Because Japan was refusing to surrender.

No need to invade, unless you are an imperialist.

There was very much a need. Japan was still refusing to surrender.

 

[Open Bolt]

The anniversary of these atrocities is hardly a 'happy' day.

Wartime strikes against military targets are in no way atrocities.

And yes, these are happy occasions. Japan's victims rest easier whenever the atomic bombings are celebrated.

 

[Open Bolt]

We had the bomb

And having it, it was time for us to use it.

We were going to win anyway. Was is necessary to kill 100,000 civilians in Hiroshima and then kill 70,000 in Nagasaki a few days later?

Yes. Quite necessary. Japan was still refusing to surrender.

 

[Unkotare]

Because Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not civilian targets.

.....

Complete lie.

 

[Mushroom]

US spent much of our money rebuilding Japan after the war. How much has Japan spent rebuilding China, Philippines, Indonesia, Korea, etc?

Over $1.2 billion dollars. That is over $20 billion in today's money.

Mostly to the Philippines, Indonesia, Burma, and Vietnam.

What, you did not actually know that Japan actually did pay reparations?

Actually, China bowed out of any reoperations after the war ended. But in recent years they have been seeking them.

Korea was not eligible for them because at the time they were actually a part of Japan. However, they did actually pay them over $9.5 billion dollars in "Economic Aid" to South Korea after the war. It was not technically "reoperations", but it served the same purpose.

 

[Mushroom]

Complete lie.

Oh really?

So you are saying that Hiroshima was not the home to over 30,000 Japanese soldiers, and was not the command of the defense of all of Southern Japan?

So you are saying that Nagasaki was not one of their largest shipyards, and the home base for most of their submarines? And until the day of the bomb they were not still frantically trying to finish as many submarines as possible?

So what, those are lies? What exactly of what I just said is a lie? Because each of those photographs I showed were of completed submarines at Nagasaki, and many more still under construction.

And those photographs were taken from August to October 1945, after the war ended.

 

[JoeB131]

Never did get an answer on this.

Okay, here's one.

There are no "Civilians" in total war. If you are working in a factory or providing war material, you are a legitimate target.

The problem you and other hand-wringers make is that you look at Hiroshima in isolation, and not as the last act in a war where ALL sides did horrible things, and 70 million people died.

At the end of the day, the Japanese people themselves tolerated their leaders taking them into a war, and keeping that war going even when it was clear they were losing.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Over $1.2 billion dollars. That is over $20 billion in today's money.

Mostly to the Philippines, Indonesia, Burma, and Vietnam.

What, you did not actually know that Japan actually did pay reparations?

Actually, China bowed out of any reoperations after the war ended. But in recent years they have been seeking them.

Korea was not eligible for them because at the time they were actually a part of Japan. However, they did actually pay them over $9.5 billion dollars in "Economic Aid" to South Korea after the war. It was not technically "reoperations", but it served the same purpose.

BFD. America spent $13B after the war to a nation that attacked us. $20B from a nation that enslaved and tortured and murdered millions in 1/4 of the planet surface?
Pffftttt….

 

[Unkotare]

"At bottom, Stimson wanted to kill as many workers and their families possible. And he made no effort to ensure that the Interim Committee’s recommendation about dual targeting was followed. Ultimately, the crew of the Enola Gay was permitted to pick the aim point and chose the Aioi Bridge at the center of Hiroshima. More than 70,000 men, women and children were killed immediately. In a cruel irony, the munitions factories on the periphery of the city were left largely unscathed."

Hiroshima and the Myths of Military Targets and Unconditional Surrender

Every year, in early August, new articles appear that debate whether the dropping of the atomic bombs in 1945 was justified. Earlier this month, the 75th anniversary of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks, was no exception.

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[gipper]

"At bottom, Stimson wanted to kill as many workers and their families possible. And he made no effort to ensure that the Interim Committee’s recommendation about dual targeting was followed. Ultimately, the crew of the Enola Gay was permitted to pick the aim point and chose the Aioi Bridge at the center of Hiroshima. More than 70,000 men, women and children were killed immediately. In a cruel irony, the munitions factories on the periphery of the city were left largely unscathed."

Hiroshima and the Myths of Military Targets and Unconditional Surrender

Every year, in early August, new articles appear that debate whether the dropping of the atomic bombs in 1945 was justified. Earlier this month, the 75th anniversary of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks, was no exception.

www.lawfareblog.com

The US eliminated Christianity in Japan with the bombing of Nagasaki.


The History of Nagasaki Christianity

Nagasaki is famous in the history of Japanese Christianity. The city had the largest concentration of Christians in all of Japan. St. Mary’s Urakami Cathedral was the megachurch of its day, with 12,000 baptized members.

Nagasaki was the community where the legendary Jesuit missionary Francis Xavier planted a mission church in 1549. The Catholic community at Nagasaki grew and eventually prospered over the next few decades. However, it gradually became clear to the Japanese leadership that Portuguese and Spanish commercial interests (with their Catholic priests that were attempting to “Christianize” Japan) were exploiting Japan’s resources and its people. It didn’t take very long before all Europeans were expelled from the country – along with their strange religion. Japanese Christians who refused to recant of their faith suffered severe persecutions, which culminated on February 5, 1597 when Paul Miki and 25 other Christian martyrs were tortured and crucified simultaneously in Nagasaki.

The reign of terror stopped when it appeared to all observers that Japanese Christianity was dead, and from 1600 until 1850, being a Christian in Japan was punishable by death.

However, 250 years later, after the gunboat diplomacy of US Commodore Matthew Perry forced open an offshore island close to Nagasaki for American trade purposes, it was discovered that there were thousands of baptized Christians in the Nagasaki area, practicing their faith in secret. The Christian community was completely unknown to the government.

When the secret congregation was discovered, the government started another persecution but because of international pressure, the persecutions stopped and Nagasaki Christianity came up from the underground. And by 1917, with no financial help from the government, the re-vitalized Christian community built the massive cathedral in Nagasaki’s Urakami River district.

Christians Killing Christians in the Name of Christ
The 77th Anniversary of the Bombing of Nagasaki - LewRockwell

 

[Weatherman2020]

"At bottom, Stimson wanted to kill as many workers and their families possible. And he made no effort to ensure that the Interim Committee’s recommendation about dual targeting was followed. Ultimately, the crew of the Enola Gay was permitted to pick the aim point and chose the Aioi Bridge at the center of Hiroshima. More than 70,000 men, women and children were killed immediately. In a cruel irony, the munitions factories on the periphery of the city were left largely unscathed."

Hiroshima and the Myths of Military Targets and Unconditional Surrender

Every year, in early August, new articles appear that debate whether the dropping of the atomic bombs in 1945 was justified. Earlier this month, the 75th anniversary of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks, was no exception.

www.lawfareblog.com

Firebombing was more fun.

 

[gipper]

Firebombing was more fun.

Trolling your own thread.

lol

 

[Weatherman2020]

Trolling your own thread.

lol

It proves a point. You history ignoramuses don’t give a peep about the firebombings.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The US eliminated Christianity in Japan with the bombing of Nagasaki.


The History of Nagasaki Christianity

Nagasaki is famous in the history of Japanese Christianity. The city had the largest concentration of Christians in all of Japan. St. Mary’s Urakami Cathedral was the megachurch of its day, with 12,000 baptized members.

Nagasaki was the community where the legendary Jesuit missionary Francis Xavier planted a mission church in 1549. The Catholic community at Nagasaki grew and eventually prospered over the next few decades. However, it gradually became clear to the Japanese leadership that Portuguese and Spanish commercial interests (with their Catholic priests that were attempting to “Christianize” Japan) were exploiting Japan’s resources and its people. It didn’t take very long before all Europeans were expelled from the country – along with their strange religion. Japanese Christians who refused to recant of their faith suffered severe persecutions, which culminated on February 5, 1597 when Paul Miki and 25 other Christian martyrs were tortured and crucified simultaneously in Nagasaki.

The reign of terror stopped when it appeared to all observers that Japanese Christianity was dead, and from 1600 until 1850, being a Christian in Japan was punishable by death.

However, 250 years later, after the gunboat diplomacy of US Commodore Matthew Perry forced open an offshore island close to Nagasaki for American trade purposes, it was discovered that there were thousands of baptized Christians in the Nagasaki area, practicing their faith in secret. The Christian community was completely unknown to the government.

When the secret congregation was discovered, the government started another persecution but because of international pressure, the persecutions stopped and Nagasaki Christianity came up from the underground. And by 1917, with no financial help from the government, the re-vitalized Christian community built the massive cathedral in Nagasaki’s Urakami River district.

Christians Killing Christians in the Name of Christ
The 77th Anniversary of the Bombing of Nagasaki - LewRockwell

Japanese government ordered children - male and female - to die for the Emperor.

 

[Weatherman2020]

And Happy Nagasaki Day!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Trolling your own thread.

lol

Happy Nagasaki Day!
Why was Japan still at war with us on 8/9/45?

 

[Mushroom]

America spent $13B after the war to a nation that attacked us.

Yes, for many reasons.

Remember, we had learned a hell of a lot since WWI. For example, the extreme poverty that Germany was left in and the economic destruction made it very easy for that nation to fall under the influence of extremist elements. Specifically, the NSDAP. By helping to return the country to prosperity, greatly reduced the chance of such happening there.

Also, unlike after WWI, the Allied Powers insisted that each of the former Axis powers be occupied for years to come. And we had tens or hundreds of thousands of own personnel there involved in those occupation duties. Now, should we have them stationed in a place that at least is recovering from the war, or in a hell of poor sanitation, no reliable power and water, and constant internal conflict, or a country on the mend and improving?

What, do you think we should not have helped them recover after the war, no matter what the cause was? Do you think we should have punished them, and made the country suffer for years just because they started the war?

 

[Mushroom]

Complete lie.

You know, I keep waiting for a response, but never seem to get one.

I see you calling me a liar, and downvoting a lot of the things said that are actually factual.

Now, are you doing so simply because you do not like them, or they are factually wrong? Also, calling me a liar then not even discussing what you think the actual "truth" is of a situation does yourself no good at all. That is simply a "cop out", most times used when somebody is losing an argument but has no real response to give. So in short, they attack the individual and not the facts presented.

Now how about being an actual honest debater? You more than most in here should know that I actually lived in Japan, and respect the Japanese culture and traditions. But even as most in Japan do today, I recognize the excesses and cruelty of the early Showa era when the nation was largely run by the expansionist military.

If I am wrong factually, please correct me. But do not attack me with a two word response, or downvote everything I or others say just because you do not like them. I have seen better from you in other threads, but for some reason when it comes to this topic you are almost childlike in how childlike your react.

 

[Open Bolt]

Complete lie.

Hiroshima was a huge military center with tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers. It was also the headquarters in charge of repelling our invasion of Japan.

Nagasaki was a massive warship-building factory.

"At bottom, Stimson wanted to kill as many workers and their families possible. And he made no effort to ensure that the Interim Committee’s recommendation about dual targeting was followed. Ultimately, the crew of the Enola Gay was permitted to pick the aim point and chose the Aioi Bridge at the center of Hiroshima. More than 70,000 men, women and children were killed immediately. In a cruel irony, the munitions factories on the periphery of the city were left largely unscathed."

Who cares about a minor munitions factory? The destruction of the military headquarters and slaughter of twenty thousand Japanese soldiers was quite satisfactory.