Hamas leader: Nations are recognizing Palestinian state due to ‘fruits of October 7’

[alang1216]

Churchill once said, Democracy is the worst system except for all the others, meaning one cannot properly judge an action or a system without examining the alternatives. There simply is no effective alternative to the way Israel is conducting the war if Israel is to protect itself from future attacks from the Gaza terrorists. While you may find the consequences of war unacceptable, clearly the Palestinians don't since they continue to refuse to end the war by releasing the hostages and disarming.

I don't believe 'Palestinian' and 'Hamas' are interchangeable terms.

There is no collective punishment and Israel has committed no war crimes. Much of the hardship in Gaza are the result of unavoidable damage to the infrastructure and ensuing chaos and the rest is the result of Israel trying to prevent Hamas and the other terrorist gangs from benefiting from aid delivery.

So you punish the people to punish Hamas? Sounds like collective punishment to me.

International Humanitarian Law allows either side to prevent aid from reaching the opposing army. Given the extravagantly inefficient system of aid delivering it was impossible to prevent Hamas from receiving aid without also slowing down deliveries to civilians. Even so, Israel cut off aid only two times, when the ground operation in Gaza began because it was simply too dangerous to allow trucks to go back and forth through active battle zones and more recently when the new system of aid delivery through the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation was replacing the UN and World Food Program.

Is Hamas an army or a terrorist organization? Food deliveries have never been adequate.

There was no collective punishment because Israel's action were not directed at the civilian population but only at Hamas and the other Gaza terrorists, and there are no war crimes because a war crime is a specific action by a particular individual and the term has only propaganda value when applied to a nation.

Yet what Israel did impacted the civilian population

Again you tell me you liked Israelis when they were being slaughtered on Oct 7, but you don't like them when they fight back.

I think Israel has gone beyond 'fighting back' and that is my problem with them.

 

[alang1216]

Um. Except I haven’t said that. I’ve said that there was a clear belligerent event which was in response to your silly tit-for-tat understanding of the purpose and goals of war. Now you are just avoiding having a reasonable discussion.

Were there 'belligerent events' done by Israel that Hamas was reacting to?

The purpose and goals of Israel’s war against a belligerent invasion involving crimes against humanity on Israel’s citizens are to prevent future invasions and atrocities. Please respond to the subject of my posts.

Would genocide be acceptable to prevent future invasions and atrocities?

 

[gipper]

Were there 'belligerent events' done by Israel that Hamas was reacting to?


Would genocide be acceptable to prevent future invasions and atrocities?

You can ask all the questions you like, but Zionists never answer them. They know deep down they are immoral monsters.

 

[Zebra]

I know. Outside Sydney Harbour Bridge, they were chanting “gas the Jews” before the IDF began hostilities.

Deranged!

terrible!

 

[Mac-7]

I suspect the Pals are starving their own children and blaming it on Israel

 

[alang1216]

You can ask all the questions you like, but Zionists never answer them. They know deep down they are immoral monsters.

I disagree. Both sides see the struggle as existential so they are both unwilling to accept peace and give up on victory. The US needs to stop enabling Israel to feel invincible, we are not helping to bring peace to the region.

 

[alang1216]

This may be true. But the situation on the ground is much more complex than this. Delivering aid in the middle of a combat zone is not exactly straightforward. Hamas is the one creating the combat zone in humanitarian areas using the strategies I’ve already mentioned.

The world keeps getting weirder and weirder. You expect Israel to set up a functioning government for it’s enemies before the war is concluded?

Insane. Israel is providing two million meals a day to the people of Gaza. That’s one for every person in Gaza every day. Meanwhile, Hamas, criminal gangs, clans, and other insurgents are stealing aid for their own uses. Seems to me like you’ve got this exactly inverted.

From my vantage point, it appears Israel is not as serious about preventing civilian deaths as they are about crushing Hamas.

 

[alang1216]

I understand you perfectly. You are equating the atrocities Jews have suffer at the hands of the Muslims, right down to Oct 7, to not being able to join a country club. The problem is not with the words you are using but with the mind that conceives such thoughts.

Actually I didn't but I do contrast the atrocities Jews have suffered at the hands of the Muslims with the atrocities Muslims have suffered at the hands of the Jews.

 

[gipper]

I suspect the Pals are starving their own children and blaming it on Israel

You’ll love this!

Palestinian footballer dies of "natural causes" after bullet strikes him in aid queue

Suleiman al-Obeid, a renowned footballer nicknamed the "Palestinian Pele" has sadly died of natural causes after a bullet struck him while he was queuing for aid near Rafah.

open.substack.com

Suleiman al-Obeid, a renowned footballer nicknamed the "Palestinian Pele" has sadly died of natural causes after a bullet struck him while he was queuing for aid near Rafah. He was 41 years old.

 

[gipper]

I disagree. Both sides see the struggle as existential so they are both unwilling to accept peace and give up on victory. The US needs to stop enabling Israel to feel invincible, we are not helping to bring peace to the region.

Your analysis ignores the fact that one side is an oppressor and invader with far greater military power and the other side the oppressed fighting the invader with little capacity. It also ignores the total disregard for innocent life by the oppressor, committing daily war crimes. .

 

[toomuchtime_]

I don't believe 'Palestinian' and 'Hamas' are interchangeable terms.


So you punish the people to punish Hamas? Sounds like collective punishment to me.


Is Hamas an army or a terrorist organization? Food deliveries have never been adequate.


Yet what Israel did impacted the civilian population


I think Israel has gone beyond 'fighting back' and that is my problem with them.

You continue to post nothing but irrelevant nonsense.

There is no rational basis for distinguishing between Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians with regard to Israel. Hamas has been clear that if it is not destroyed it will continue the war until it destroys Israel, which means war forever, and there are no dissenting voices among the rest of the so called Palestinians.

There are no voices for peace with Israel among the Palestinians.

There are no Palestinian leaders who advocate for peace with Israel.

I understand you cannot fully express your hatred for Israel (for Jews?) unless you pretend there are "innocent" Palestinians who do not support Hamas' aim to destroy Israel, but there is no evidence such people exist.

This is the fifth war the Palestinians have started in the twenty years since Israel withdrew from Gaza in a failed attempt to restart peace negotiations, and there is no practical alternative to Israel destroying Hamas and the other terrorist gangs and maintaining security control over Gaza to prevent the Palestinians from organizing new groups of terrorists if a sixth, seventh and eighth and so on war is to be avoided.

Israel has meticulously followed International Humanitarian Law throughout this conflict so there is no basis in fact or logic for your contentions that Israel has committed collective punishment or other war crimes.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

There are no voices for peace with Israel among the Palestinians.

Palestinian Arab children are brought up from birth to hate Jews, and to destroy Israel.

 

[Mack The Finger]

Ghazi Hamad, a senior member of the Hamas politburo, told Al Jazeera over the weekend that the wave of Western nations moving to recognize a Palestinian state is the result of “the fruits” of Hamas’ October 7, 2023, massacre.You're a hack !

Ghazi Hamad, senior member of the Hamas politburo couldn't remember any of the names of the countries.

But he assured everyone there is a lot of them.

 

[Mack The Finger]

You continue to post nothing but irrelevant nonsense.

...There are no voices for peace with Israel among the Palestinians.


There are no Palestinian leaders who advocate for peace with Israel.

If internal voice are calling for peace... I have not read about them.

I wonder if hamas knows...if they stack thier weapons the war would end...right there.

 

[alang1216]

You continue to post nothing but irrelevant nonsense.

Irrelevant to you because you refuse to see what you don't wish to see.

There is no rational basis for distinguishing between Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians with regard to Israel. Hamas has been clear that if it is not destroyed it will continue the war until it destroys Israel, which means war forever, and there are no dissenting voices among the rest of the so called Palestinians.

There are no voices for peace with Israel among the Palestinians.

There are no Palestinian leaders who advocate for peace with Israel.

I understand you cannot fully express your hatred for Israel (for Jews?) unless you pretend there are "innocent" Palestinians who do not support Hamas' aim to destroy Israel, but there is no evidence such people exist.

Whatever you do, don't Google "gazans protest against hamas", the cognitive dissonance might be bad for you.

You'd see:

AI Overview


Yes, there have been reports of protests against Hamas in the Gaza Strip
.
These protests are considered significant because public dissent against Hamas has historically been suppressed. Protesters have been seen chanting anti-Hamas slogans and expressing their desire for an end to the war and a better quality of life. Some protesters blame Hamas for the ongoing conflict and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza.
Reports indicate that protests have occurred in multiple areas of the Gaza Strip and have involved hundreds or even thousands of Palestinians. While Hamas has reportedly responded with attempts to disperse these demonstrations, the fact that such protests are taking place is considered by some to be a sign of a potential shift in public opinion within Gaza.

This is the fifth war the Palestinians have started in the twenty years since Israel withdrew from Gaza in a failed attempt to restart peace negotiations, and there is no practical alternative to Israel destroying Hamas and the other terrorist gangs and maintaining security control over Gaza to prevent the Palestinians from organizing new groups of terrorists if a sixth, seventh and eighth and so on war is to be avoided.

Israel has meticulously followed International Humanitarian Law throughout this conflict so there is no basis in fact or logic for your contentions that Israel has committed collective punishment or other war crimes.

Here some Jews you also need to convince:

• Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP): Self-described as the largest progressive Jewish anti-Zionist organization in the world, JVP advocates for Palestinian liberation and criticizes Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories, according to Wikipedia. They endorse the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel. JVP has participated in rallies demanding a ceasefire in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and withdrawal of US military funding to Israel, according to PBS.
• IfNotNow: This group emerged from a desire to protest against Israel's actions during the 2014 Gaza War. They focus on ending US support for Israel's "apartheid system" and securing equality and justice for Palestinians and Israelis alike. IfNotNow has organized protests and sit-ins to advocate for a ceasefire and condemn Israeli policies, says PBS.
• Jews for Justice for Palestinians (JJP): Based in Britain, JJP advocates for the human and civil rights of the Palestinian people and opposes Israeli policies in the Palestinian territories. They have organized petitions and open letters signed by prominent British Jews to raise awareness and advocate for change.
• J Street: While not condemning Israel's existence, J Street, a liberal Zionist group, is critical of specific Israeli government policies and advocates for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, according to Wikipedia. They lobby the US government to pressure both sides towards a diplomatic solution and have been vocal against Israeli settlement expansion and human rights concerns.

 

[alang1216]

Your analysis ignores the fact that one side is an oppressor and invader with far greater military power and the other side the oppressed fighting the invader with little capacity. It also ignores the total disregard for innocent life by the oppressor, committing daily war crimes. .

I don't see it as a good guy against a bad guy. Neither side really want peace until they get everything they want.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Irrelevant to you because you refuse to see what you don't wish to see.


Whatever you do, don't Google "gazans protest against hamas", the cognitive dissonance might be bad for you.

You'd see:

AI Overview


Yes, there have been reports of protests against Hamas in the Gaza Strip
.
These protests are considered significant because public dissent against Hamas has historically been suppressed. Protesters have been seen chanting anti-Hamas slogans and expressing their desire for an end to the war and a better quality of life. Some protesters blame Hamas for the ongoing conflict and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza.
Reports indicate that protests have occurred in multiple areas of the Gaza Strip and have involved hundreds or even thousands of Palestinians. While Hamas has reportedly responded with attempts to disperse these demonstrations, the fact that such protests are taking place is considered by some to be a sign of a potential shift in public opinion within Gaza.


Here some Jews you also need to convince:

• Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP): Self-described as the largest progressive Jewish anti-Zionist organization in the world, JVP advocates for Palestinian liberation and criticizes Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories, according to Wikipedia. They endorse the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel. JVP has participated in rallies demanding a ceasefire in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and withdrawal of US military funding to Israel, according to PBS.
• IfNotNow: This group emerged from a desire to protest against Israel's actions during the 2014 Gaza War. They focus on ending US support for Israel's "apartheid system" and securing equality and justice for Palestinians and Israelis alike. IfNotNow has organized protests and sit-ins to advocate for a ceasefire and condemn Israeli policies, says PBS.
• Jews for Justice for Palestinians (JJP): Based in Britain, JJP advocates for the human and civil rights of the Palestinian people and opposes Israeli policies in the Palestinian territories. They have organized petitions and open letters signed by prominent British Jews to raise awareness and advocate for change.
• J Street: While not condemning Israel's existence, J Street, a liberal Zionist group, is critical of specific Israeli government policies and advocates for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, according to Wikipedia. They lobby the US government to pressure both sides towards a diplomatic solution and have been vocal against Israeli settlement expansion and human rights concerns.

Again, everything you post is irrelevant to the current situation. There is no dissent among other Palestinians about Hamas' aim to continue attacking Israel until it is destroyed.

It is telling that you were unable to find voices for peace among the Palestinians or Palestinian leaders who advocate peace with Israel. On the issue of attacking Israel until it is destroyed all the evidence shows the Palestinians are united.

 

[Mac-7]

You’ll love this!

Palestinian footballer dies of "natural causes" after bullet strikes him in aid queue

Suleiman al-Obeid, a renowned footballer nicknamed the "Palestinian Pele" has sadly died of natural causes after a bullet struck him while he was queuing for aid near Rafah.

open.substack.com

Suleiman al-Obeid, a renowned footballer nicknamed the "Palestinian Pele" has sadly died of natural causes after a bullet struck him while he was queuing for aid near Rafah. He was 41 years old.

Its a poor substitute for The Onion, but if thats the best you have so be it

 

[Woodznutz]

Ghazi Hamad, a senior member of the Hamas politburo, told Al Jazeera over the weekend that the wave of Western nations moving to recognize a Palestinian state is the result of “the fruits” of Hamas’ October 7, 2023, massacre.

In a clip of his interview with the outlet yesterday, Hamad asked the interviewer: “Why are all the countries recognizing a Palestinian state today? Before October 7, did any country dare recognize a Palestinian state?”

He continues: “The fruits of October 7 are what caused the entire world to open its eyes to the Palestinian issue — and they are moving toward it with force. That is, that the Palestinian people are a people who deserve a country.”

Dozens of countries had recognized Palestinian statehood prior to the October 7 attack, though in recent weeks, many more have taken steps in that direction, including a number of major Israeli allies, citing the need to bring an end to the war in Gaza.

Responding to Hamad’s remarks, Foreign Minister Gideon Sa’ar — who has argued that unilateral recognition at this time “rewards terror” — called out France, the United Kingdom, and Canada for announcing plans to recognize a Palestinian state in September, asking rhetorically in a post on X: “If this [is] who applauds you — what does it say about you?”

MSN

Britain, France, Canada and Hamas apparently all think alike.

No one wants Palestinian refugees in their country, that's why they "recognize" Palestine as the 'homeland' of the Palestinians.

 

[alang1216]

Again, everything you post is irrelevant to the current situation. There is no dissent among other Palestinians about Hamas' aim to continue attacking Israel until it is destroyed.

It is telling that you were unable to find voices for peace among the Palestinians or Palestinian leaders who advocate peace with Israel. On the issue of attacking Israel until it is destroyed all the evidence shows the Palestinians are united.

You mean all the evidence that supports your views. I've shown you even Jews don't always agree with you. Here are some Palestinian voices:

Many Palestinians advocate for peaceful resolution of the conflict with Israel and a two-state solution, including the establishment of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.
Some prominent voices who have advocated for peace and nonviolence include:

• Yasser Arafat: As Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), he signed the Oslo Accord peace agreement in 1993, recognizing Israel's right to exist and committing to peaceful negotiations.
• Mahmoud Abbas: The current President of the Palestinian Authority, he has consistently reaffirmed the Palestinian commitment to the two-state solution and outlined a political roadmap towards statehood.
• Ali Abu Awwad: A leading Palestinian peace activist and founder of Taghyeer (Change), a movement advocating nonviolence as a means to achieve a solution to the conflict and secure Palestinian rights.
• Individuals involved in organizations like Combatants for Peace (Combatants for Peace is an Israeli-Palestinian NGO and an egalitarian, bi-national, grassroots movement committed to non-violent action against the “Israeli occupation and all forms of violence” in Israel and the Palestinian territories) and OneVoice Movement: These grassroots groups actively work towards peaceful coexistence and dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians.

It's important to note that the issue of peace and the approach to resolving the conflict are complex and diverse within Palestinian society, with varying viewpoints and strategies.