Hamas leader: Nations are recognizing Palestinian state due to ‘fruits of October 7’

[Lisa558]

Yet they want to engage with us. Fervently.

True. It seems they enjoy nothing more than showing Jews how much they are hated.

 

[teddyearp]

See my previous post

There is nothing of substance in your previous post. Using Artificial Intelligence does absolutely nothing for you. It shows that you are really too lazy to look for the facts yourself. Sure use it, and then research closely it's results on a situation as complicated as this.

Countries all over the world are securing their borders or have you not noticed? If your neighbor kept launching bottle rockets into your yard, would you keep welcoming them over for dinner? I highly doubt it, but since it is the Jews and Israel, well . . . After all, that is the glaring 800 pound gorilla in the room that your canned AI response conveniently left out.

 

[rosends]

Below is how the Gazans lived before Oct 7. Is it surprising they were not happy?

AI Overview

Even before the October 7, 2023 attacks and the current war, Israel's restrictions on the Gaza Strip had significantly impacted the lives of its residents

Here's a summary of the situation before the intensified blockade:

• Movement of people:
  • Travel in and out of Gaza was severely limited and controlled by Israel, with permits often denied even for medical emergencies or family reunification.
  • Exit and entry by sea or air were prohibited.
  • Only a limited number of Gazans could enter Israel for work or other specific reasons, a fraction of the number allowed before the Second Intifada.
• Movement of goods:
  • Imports were heavily restricted, particularly "dual-use" items, including construction materials and computer equipment.
  • Exports were also heavily restricted, hindering Gaza's economic development.
  • The volume of goods entering Gaza was significantly lower than pre-blockade levels.
• Impact on essential services:
  • Hospitals faced chronic shortages of vital medical supplies and equipment.
  • Reconstruction efforts were severely hampered by restrictions on building materials.
  • Educational institutions lacked essential supplies and access to technology.
  • The agriculture and fishing industries suffered from restrictions on equipment and access to resources, impacting food security and livelihoods.
  • Access to clean water and sanitation was inadequate, with much of the piped water deemed unfit for human consumption.
  • Electricity supply was unreliable and insufficient to meet demand.
• Overall situation:
  • These restrictions had a severe impact on Gaza's economy, leading to high unemployment and poverty rates, and making a large portion of the population dependent on international aid.
  • Many characterized Gaza as an "open-air prison" due to the restrictions on movement and the deterioration of living conditions.
  • The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) concluded that the easing of restrictions in 2010 had not resulted in a significant improvement in livelihoods.

It's important to remember that these conditions were in place before the events of October 7, 2023, and the subsequent intensification of the blockade. The current situation in Gaza has further exacerbated the pre-existing humanitarian crisis.

using an AI interface is fraught with problems. If you looked at life before October 7th you would find that there were borders with 2 countries (I note your summary says nothing of Egypt) and the canard of "open air prison" was belied by actual views of Gaza

We all were lied to: Gaza was a modern, developed city before October 7 | The Jerusalem Post

The Gaza Strip has been compared to an open-air prison for years by anti-Israel activists and media outlets. Now, IDF Reservist Roi Yanovsky shares what he saw in reality:

www.jpost.com

THE BEST Gaza Resorts 2025 (with Prices) - Tripadvisor

Best Gaza Resorts on Tripadvisor: Find traveler reviews, candid photos, and prices for resorts in Gaza, Palestinian Territories.

www.tripadvisor.com

Was Gaza an Open-Air Prison? | Israel Answers

www.israelanswers.com

 

[ShahdagMountains]

 

[toomuchtime_]

Um, yeah, I don't think the Ottomans would have been so keen to invite the very few that came over if they knew the plan was to "Carve out a chunk of your most reverred land as our own state". Point was, very few Jews lived in Palestine under the Ottomans. Very few even wanted to relocate there after the British took over. It was only after the Austrian Mustache Man did his thing that they wanted to move.

Except you haven't proven any photographs are faked.

There you go again, inventing history to try to justify your hatred of Jews. While on paper Jews were still second class citizens in the Empire, the laws were not robustly enforced and the Turks at that time held Arabs in contempt and protected the Jews from the Arabs, sometimes brutally, and that is why the Arabs helped the British Empire (Christian) overthrow the Ottoman Empire (Muslim).

The Ottoman Empire would have objected to any group forming an independent state within the Empire, but it is likely they would have objected more to an Arab state than a Jewish state. In fact, until Erdogan took over, the Turks had sided more often with Israel than with the so called Palestinians in their disputes.

You know full well that it has been proven at least some of the photos of allegedly starving children have been proven to be of children who were suffering from debilitating diseases unrelated to the food supply, as has been admitted by NYT and BBC, and this fact casts doubt on all of the other photos of allegedly starving children unless they have been proven to be legitimate, and it casts doubt on the allegations the food shortages are as serious as you want people to believe they are.

 

[teddyearp]

Yet they want to engage with us. Fervently.

The only thing they wouldn't be a waste of at this point is lead.

 

[alang1216]

The Palestinians have proven that they are a danger to Israelis. You think the Jews should just let people who want them dead to move freely? You saw what the savages did on Oct 7.

Maybe if they let them move freely (in addition to other freedoms) they wouldn't be a danger to Israelis.

And why no complaints about what Egypt is doing? They have a massive wall keeping the Palestinians from moving to Egypt and living among their fellow Arabs.

I'm surprised you're an advocate for open borders.

Israel supplied electricity, jobs, medical care, and water to the very people who celebrate when Jewish babies are tortured to death. You sure expect an AWFUL lot from Jews that you don’t demand of others.

I'm not the one saying one side is evil while the other side is pure as driven snow.

 

[Shusha]

except Gaza is only as poor as it is because the Israelis exploit it. But let's leave that part out.

Oh I can't wait to hear this. Just how did Israel manage to "exploit" the people of Gaza without having a single Israeli step foot in Gaza for 20 years?

 

[alang1216]

Russia kidnapped 20,000 Ukrainian children and are probably using them as sex slaves. The Jews doesn’t do such immoral things.

Myanmar threw 36,000 Rohingya Muslims into fire pits and burned them alive. The Jews don’t do such reprehensible things.

The Palestinians joined HAMAS on the Oct 7th massacre, breaking into a kibbutz the morning of a major Jewish holiday and decapitated babies and set toddlers on fire while their parents watched in horror, before they themselves were burned to death. The Jews don’t do such immoral things.

Yet your venom is targeted to the Jews.

I have no venom for Jews, only respect. The Israeli gov't, on the other hand, I find deplorable, and no better than Hamas.

You won’t be happy until the entire world hates Jews, as a result of the leftist propaganda and venom, and the cattle cars start up again.

If that happens you can thank Netanyahu.

 

[rosends]

I have no venom for Jews, only respect. The Israeli gov't, on the other hand, I find deplorable, and no better than Hamas.

do you have an opinion on the Israeli policies in other areas aside from the question of "Palestine"? You know that the government is involved in a lot of other stuff. What other policies and practices are you so well versed in that you can make a judgment of "deplorable"?

 

[Shusha]

You're kidding I hope.

I am so far from kidding, you would need a spaceship to reach me.

All I hear from Israelis is how the violence is all the fault of the Palestinians and if they just laid down their weapons all would be fine.

Demonstrably true.

All I hear from the Palestinians is how poorly they are treated by the Israelis.

...as a direct result of the violence, oh wait, the "resistance".

What should the Israelis be doing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people?

Well let's see. What could Israel do? She could offer the people of Gaza a state. She could remove all her citizens from territory and renounce all claims to it. She could open up trade agreements. She could provide utilities like water and electricity. She could provide employment. She could assist with high-quality health care. She could provide educational exchanges and research opportunities.

Oh wait. She did all that.

The world wants to "give" the Arab Palestinians in Gaza a STATE. A state is expected to provide for its people. If it CAN'T (or won't) it has no business with statehood. The Arab Palestinians in Gaza received BILLIONS in international aid. It was used to build tunnels, and to buy weapons, and to train young men and boys to fight, and to buy a couple of really nice apartments in Qatar.

Let's stop infantilizing the Arab Palestinians.

 

[alang1216]

There is nothing of substance in your previous post. Using Artificial Intelligence does absolutely nothing for you. It shows that you are really too lazy to look for the facts yourself. Sure use it, and then research closely it's results on a situation as complicated as this.

Countries all over the world are securing their borders or have you not noticed? If your neighbor kept launching bottle rockets into your yard, would you keep welcoming them over for dinner? I highly doubt it, but since it is the Jews and Israel, well . . . After all, that is the glaring 800 pound gorilla in the room that your canned AI response conveniently left out.

My post was a perfect response to the question "What do YOU say in rebuttal to all the aid Israel has given, and the fact that the Palestinians massacred them anyway?". That you don't appreciate the technology behind it is not my concern. Nor is the fact that I didn't address your issue of borders, something you feel the need to interject into the thread.

 

[gipper]

I am so far from kidding, you would need a spaceship to reach me.

Demonstrably true.

...as a direct result of the violence, oh wait, the "resistance".

Well let's see. What could Israel do? She could offer the people of Gaza a state. She could remove all her citizens from territory and renounce all claims to it. She could open up trade agreements. She could provide utilities like water and electricity. She could provide employment. She could assist with high-quality health care. She could provide educational exchanges and research opportunities.

Oh wait. She did all that.

The world wants to "give" the Arab Palestinians in Gaza a STATE. A state is expected to provide for its people. If it CAN'T (or won't) it has no business with statehood. The Arab Palestinians in Gaza received BILLIONS in international aid. It was used to build tunnels, and to buy weapons, and to train young men and boys to fight, and to buy a couple of really nice apartments in Qatar.

Let's stop infantilizing the Arab Palestinians.

No doubt you approve of starving to death all Gazans.

 

[rosends]

No doubt you approve of starving to death all Gazans.

why is there "no doubt"? I suspect that Shusha is against all starving, let alone to death, regardless of the people involved. For you to impute a position like that is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Shusha]

Below is how the Gazans lived before Oct 7. Is it surprising they were not happy?

AI Overview

Even before the October 7, 2023 attacks and the current war, Israel's restrictions on the Gaza Strip had significantly impacted the lives of its residents

Here's a summary of the situation before the intensified blockade:

• Movement of people:
  • Travel in and out of Gaza was severely limited and controlled by Israel, with permits often denied even for medical emergencies or family reunification.
  • Exit and entry by sea or air were prohibited.
  • Only a limited number of Gazans could enter Israel for work or other specific reasons, a fraction of the number allowed before the Second Intifada.
• Movement of goods:
  • Imports were heavily restricted, particularly "dual-use" items, including construction materials and computer equipment.
  • Exports were also heavily restricted, hindering Gaza's economic development.
  • The volume of goods entering Gaza was significantly lower than pre-blockade levels.
• Impact on essential services:
  • Hospitals faced chronic shortages of vital medical supplies and equipment.
  • Reconstruction efforts were severely hampered by restrictions on building materials.
  • Educational institutions lacked essential supplies and access to technology.
  • The agriculture and fishing industries suffered from restrictions on equipment and access to resources, impacting food security and livelihoods.
  • Access to clean water and sanitation was inadequate, with much of the piped water deemed unfit for human consumption.
  • Electricity supply was unreliable and insufficient to meet demand.
• Overall situation:
  • These restrictions had a severe impact on Gaza's economy, leading to high unemployment and poverty rates, and making a large portion of the population dependent on international aid.
  • Many characterized Gaza as an "open-air prison" due to the restrictions on movement and the deterioration of living conditions.
  • The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) concluded that the easing of restrictions in 2010 had not resulted in a significant improvement in livelihoods.

It's important to remember that these conditions were in place before the events of October 7, 2023, and the subsequent intensification of the blockade. The current situation in Gaza has further exacerbated the pre-existing humanitarian crisis.

I'm going to add my voice to those who dislike AI Overviews as a method of discussion. Most of us are well versed in this topic and the AI Overview comes across as shallow and ill-informed.

Rather than going point-by-point, I'll point out that none of these restrictions were in place when Israel abandoned the territory in 2005. These restrictions are a result of choices made unilaterally by the people of Gaza and by their elected government. Digging up water pipes to make rockets is a choice. Using building materials to make tunnels is a choice. Strapping bombs to 13 year old children and sending them across the border is a choice. Abducting infants and elderly women with dementia, choices.

The people of Gaza need to make better choices if they want a better life.

 

[rosends]

Here is an interesting article for those who wish to know more about photographs (I don't know if it has been posted already or not)

They Became Symbols for Gazan Starvation. But All 12 Suffer from Other Health Problems.

A Free Press investigation found that the viral photos lacked important context: The subjects have cystic fibrosis, rickets, or other serious ailments.

www.thefp.com

 

[alang1216]

I am so far from kidding, you would need a spaceship to reach me.

Demonstrably true.

...as a direct result of the violence, oh wait, the "resistance".

Well let's see. What could Israel do? She could offer the people of Gaza a state. She could remove all her citizens from territory and renounce all claims to it. She could open up trade agreements. She could provide utilities like water and electricity. She could provide employment. She could assist with high-quality health care. She could provide educational exchanges and research opportunities.

Oh wait. She did all that.

The world wants to "give" the Arab Palestinians in Gaza a STATE. A state is expected to provide for its people. If it CAN'T (or won't) it has no business with statehood. The Arab Palestinians in Gaza received BILLIONS in international aid. It was used to build tunnels, and to buy weapons, and to train young men and boys to fight, and to buy a couple of really nice apartments in Qatar.

Let's stop infantilizing the Arab Palestinians.

Israel has negotiated deals the Palestinians in the past, but Netanyahu doesn't seem interested in a deal, only dictating a complete surrender.

 

[rosends]

Israel has negotiated deals the Palestinians in the past, but Netanyahu doesn't seem interested in a deal, only dictating a complete surrender.

the surrender is part of the terms for the deal. That doesn't mean he is uninterested in a deal, only that he wants a deal which provides a peaceful future. Not liking the terms doesn't mean he doesn't want a deal, only that you disapprove of what he is asking for in that deal. You are equating deal with compromise and some things, maybe, shouldn't be compromised while others can.

 

[gipper]

There is nothing of substance in your previous post. Using Artificial Intelligence does absolutely nothing for you. It shows that you are really too lazy to look for the facts yourself. Sure use it, and then research closely it's results on a situation as complicated as this.

Countries all over the world are securing their borders or have you not noticed? If your neighbor kept launching bottle rockets into your yard, would you keep welcoming them over for dinner? I highly doubt it, but since it is the Jews and Israel, well . . . After all, that is the glaring 800 pound gorilla in the room that your canned AI response conveniently left out.

Here is one of your heroes.

 

[alang1216]

the surrender is part of the terms for the deal. That doesn't mean he is uninterested in a deal, only that he wants a deal which provides a peaceful future. Not liking the terms doesn't mean he doesn't want a deal, only that you disapprove of what he is asking for in that deal. You are equating deal with compromise and some things, maybe, shouldn't be compromised while others can.

Deal: an agreement entered into by two or more parties for their mutual benefit, especially in a business or political context.