Hamas breaks ceasefire as rockets explode near Be'er Sheva

[georgephillip]

I have been reading the reports of the negotiations. they are;

No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress

Who is actually contributing to bringing a truce. It seems nobody is interested.

The eyes of the world have turned away from Gaza.
Israel knows it can resume its blockade with minor adjustments, if any, and continue colonizing the land of Palestine. I fully expect the next "mowing the lawn" episode in Gaza around November of 2016; if it's as ruthless as this latest example and Israel offers to set up a tent city in Sinai for all Gazans who wish to leave, some recent polls have shown 80% of those currently "living" in Gaza would accept the Israeli offer, and a million Jews will colonize Gaza.

 

[P F Tinmore]

georgephillip, et al,

Yes, it's the matter in which it is stated that leads one to the false conclusion.

• A fallacy occurring when the number of alternatives is said to be fewer than the actual number.

(COMMENT)

This may have some security implications, but I think there is more to the export/transit controls out of Gaza and into Israel and the West Bank, then meets the eye. There are certainly trade balance considerations on the commerce side of the equation. I don't believe it has some much to do with punishing Gaza, as it has with other aspects in Israel and the West Bank on the economics.

There is a interesting National Public Radio interview that might shake some cobwebs. It may give you a new direction in which to think.

Most Respectfully,
R

What about out of Gaza to Italy or France?

 

[aris2chat]

I have been reading the reports of the negotiations. they are;

No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress
No progress

Who is actually contributing to bringing a truce. It seems nobody is interested.

So hamas should be allowed to fire rockets at tel aviv and Jerusalem? Israel took out rocket lauchers and hamas fighters.

67 rockets fired at Israel from gaza.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So hamas should be allowed to fire rockets at tel aviv and Jerusalem? Israel took out rocket lauchers and hamas fighters.

67 rockets fired at Israel from gaza.

My point.

Who is actually contributing to bringing a truce. It seems nobody is interested.

 

[aris2chat]

My point.

Who is actually contributing to bringing a truce. It seems nobody is interested.

certainly not hamas or they would have kept talking. Instead they let their rocket talk of war and hate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

certainly not hamas or they would have kept talking. Instead they let their rocket talk of war and hate.

Why talk forever? There is no progress.

Just like they talk forever in the West Bank with no progress.

Nobody is interested in a solution.

 

[aris2chat]

Why talk forever? There is no progress.

Just like they talk forever in the West Bank with no progress.

Nobody is interested in a solution.

talking brings understanding if you seek some common ground. Hamas just sees blood lust and dreams of dead jews bleeding on the parched ground. They don't see people, people of the book, relatives descended from Abraham to people that can teach them to develop the land and create jobs, to grow the palestinian economy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

talking brings understanding if you seek some common ground. Hamas just sees blood lust and dreams of dead jews bleeding on the parched ground. They don't see people, people of the book, relatives descended from Abraham to people that can teach them to develop the land and create jobs, to grow the palestinian economy.

They don't need that. They just need to be able to export what they already know how to produce.

Useless suggestion.

Nice deflection though.

 

[Indeependent]

They don't need that. They just need to be able to export what they already know how to produce.

Useless suggestion.

Nice deflection though.

Tunnels?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

Everything that Israel does, the Palestinians attach a sinister motive. It is like some accusation that the Palestinian conspiracy theorists put together in order to further their agenda of oppression.

If I didn't know better, I would think it's all part of the Zionist plan for Jews to control all the land between the River and the sea.

It won't work, Rocco, the world is waking to how Israel was born in 1948.

Export from Gaza | Gisha

(COMMENT)

Ah yes... the "Zionist Plan" to control the land between the Jordan to the Mediterranean. This 21st Century Plan is made up mostly of supposition and theory. It is nothing as substantial as a HAMAS Position Paper.

Khaled Meshal, Hamas' "political" leader who is touted as being more moderate than his colleagues in Gaza, has published a major position paper for Hamas to explain its political positions.

The paper lists nineteen positions, which include:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; nand it will not be long, God willing.

4. Liberation of Palestine is a national duty; it is the responsibility of the Palestinian people and the Arab and Islamic nation, it is also a humanitarian responsibility in accordance with the requirements of truth and justice.

5. Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle

6. Resistance is a means and not an end, if we have another way without blood and painful sacrifices to liberate the land and ending the occupation and the restoration of rights we would take it, but history proves that there is no option to expel the occupiers and restore the land and rights without using all forms of resistance, led by armed resistance.

7. We are not fighting Jews because they are Jews, but are fighting the Zionist Jews occupiers, the aggressors, and we will fight anyone who tries to attack us or usurp our rights or occupy our land, regardless of religion or affiliation, race or nationality.

8. The Zionist project is a racist project based on murder and terrorism, and so it is the enemy of the Palestinian people and the nation, and is a real threat to them, and a huge threat to its security and interests, and it is not an exaggeration to say that it is a danger to the security of the humanitarian community and the interests and stability.

9. Jerusalem is an Islamic and Christian [holy place], we many not give it up not relinquish any part of it, it is our right and our spirit, our history, our present and our future, which is the capital of Palestine, and dearest to the hearts of Arabs and Muslims.... Israel has no legitimacy and no right to to Jerusalem at all, nor any legitimacy nor right to all of Palestine. And all actions of Israel in Jerusalem to Judaize and settle and falsification of facts and attempts to fabricate history are void.

10. Upholding the right of return of Palestinian refugees and displaced persons to their homes from which they were expelled, or were prevented from returning, both in the occupied territories in 1948 or 1967, to all of Palestine; we refuse to compromise in any way for this right. At the same time reject all settlement projects or alternative homelands.... [some detail on how people proposed Lebanon or Jordan or the Sinai as alternate homelands]

11. The unity of the Palestinian land: The West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip and the occupied land of 1948, one land with all its geography, it is one unit, not part separated from the other, which is a whole nation of the Palestinian people. The situation in Gaza now is exceptional and imposed on us, and not a natural situation, we can not accept that Gaza is separate...

12. And the unity of the Palestinian people Muslims and Christians, and all its intellectual, political and ideological components, and with all the strength and factions, militant and political.

13. The unity of the Palestinian political system and its institutions, and national unity of his authority through the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), which needs to be rebuilt on valid grounds, to include all the Palestinian forces and components. ...

14. ...The state is the real first fruit of liberation; there is no alternative to the establishment of a Palestinian state, with real sovereignty over the entire territory.

15. [True] Palestinian national independence: a principle which is based on the non-dependence on any country or party in the world; friend or an ally or an enemy or opponent. But that does not mean that we ...are weakening the Arab and Islamic role, Palestine was and will remain Arab and Islamic, but also a humanitarian issue.

16. Institution-building and the Palestinian National authorities should always be on the basis of democracy, and in the forefront of free and fair elections, equal opportunities....

17. Non-interference in the affairs of other countries, and not to engage in themes and conflicts and alignments between nations....

18. The unity of the nation with all its components, ethnic and religious, we are one nation...

19. Any position or a political programs or tactical initiatives or must be in line with the Palestinian national principle that we have mentioned....therefore we reject any draft agreements or settlements that diminish those principles, principles affecting Palestinian national rights.​

SOURCE:

فلسطين الآن : وثيقة لمشعل تشرح الفكر السياسي لحركة حماس Wednesday, March 20th, 2013, 20:51 GMT Jerusalem

It should be noticed, while every point made is important, that the very first point made by HAMAS (Khaled Meshaal) is about "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures." It seems to be the exact same primer the anti-Israeli contingent accuses the pro-Israel supporters of. No difference. But I'm not sure that Israel really wants the Gaza Strip and West Bank considering that it is almost an instant dump of Hostile Arabs into their system; and a very unproductive economy. It would be an financial black hole for Israel.

I consider this Position Paper one of the most critical papers concerning the forces that drive the current conflict. It absolutely leads you to understand why Israeli-Palestinian Talks fail.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oh good grief.

 

[Hossfly]

Oh good grief.

Go to bed, you old fart.

 

[Challenger]

So...nobody knows what happened to Iron Dome then? Three rockets suddenly explode in Zionist Israel, when 1000's had been "vapourised" by Iron Dome previously. Coincidentally just after the Zionist delegation left Cairo, while the Palestinian delegation was waiting for a reply to their latest proposal.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Hamas do their best to control things. Did a good job before the infrastructure was destroyed.
But Islamic Jihad and other groups operate from there.

Also, there could easily be extremist Zionist groups faking an attack.

If the IDF is to retaliate, shouldn't they do it proportionately by firing small homemade rockets at empty areas?

Hamas is doing nothing of the sort.

Hamas is a terrorist organization with the genocide of Jews built into it's platform.

Hamas is personally responsible for the destruction of pali infrastructure.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Hamas wishes every rocket would kill a bunch of people plus you can't compare fireworks accidents to murderous intent to kill by rocket fire. It's time for Israel to respond to future rocket firings with blanket bombing around the firing sites.

Yepp. Time to clean out the entire zoo and send the beasts packing.

 

[Statistikhengst]

such loving parent

Damn, that is just plain old sick.

The worst threat to pali hamas children are their own parents.

Damn, I almost threw up after watching that.

 

[Statistikhengst]

"From June 2007 until June 2010, only 255 truckloads of strawberries and flowers left Gaza for Europe, compared to dozens of trucks that left Gaza per-day in the first six months of 2007, and 400 trucks that Israel agreed to let out daily in the Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA).

"In December 2010, Israel declared it would allow more export from Gaza through the Kerem Shalom Crossing.

"From the end of November 2010 to the end of April 2011, 287 truckloads of strawberries and flowers left Gaza for Europe, in addition to a minimal quantity of red peppers and cherry tomatoes – in other words, 0.5% of the amount of trucks promised in the AMA.

"Israel does not allow residents of Gaza to export goods to markets in Israel, the West Bank or Jordan.

"From May 12, 2011, to October 27, Israel didn’t allow any truck carrying goods to exit the Gaza Strip.

If I didn't know better, I would think it's all part of the Zionist plan for Jews to control all the land between the River and the sea.

It won't work, Rocco, the world is waking to how Israel was born in 1948.

Export from Gaza | Gisha

Oh, brother...

 

[Lipush]

The rockets are a form of resistance against Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine. Perhaps it's time some Jews realized their colonization of Palestine has come to its natural end?

Targeting civilians is not "resistance", it's a war crime Hamas tries to cover up.

The Fogel's murder was also a form of "resistance" in your twisted mind?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It should be noticed, while every point made is important, that the very first point made by HAMAS (Khaled Meshaal) is about "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right,

That is Palestine inside its international borders.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

You never have explained how and when Palestinians became exempt from customary international law.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Interesting, so what happened to the fabled Iron Dome system, did the IDF switch it off? was it down for regular maintainance? Were the operators asleep or drunk? Maybe they ran out of missiles, they are very expensive after all.

The Iron Dome is only used when deemed necessary by an incoming rocket's trajectory.