Grau
You have, on more than one occasion, requested respectful and genuine dialogue. And I have, on more than one occasion, echoed and agreed to that request.
In this post you have egregiously (and I believe deliberately) misrepresented my position. I am kindly and respectfully asking you to read and accept my words AS WRITTEN and not to ascribe meaning to them that is not actually on the page.
Here is what I actually wrote (summarized):
Self-determination for the Jewish people. Self-determination for the Arab Palestinian people. Each is given the same rights. Fair and equal. No conflict.
It is racist to claim the simple reality that peoples have distinct languages, cultures, religious rituals, celebrations, and customs? It is racist to mention that the Welsh have a distinct language? It is racist to claim that the Lakota have distinct burial rituals? It is racist to claim that the Shinto religion originated in Japan? It is racist to recognize the distinct body modification rituals of the Maori peoples? Silly. There is nothing racist about acknowledging the distinct and unique features of various cultures.
Here is what I actually wrote:
- the Jewish people have a distinct culture (ethnicity)
- the Jewish culture originated in that land
- the Arab Palestinians have a distinct nationality, but not a distinct culture
- the Arab culture (specifically language and religions) originated elsewhere
There is no distortion. These are demonstrable, historical facts.
There is nothing in my post about entitlement beyond the shared right of BOTH peoples to self-determination. I did not mention "Chosen People" nor "Master Race". That is a egregious misrepresentation which not only twists my actual meaning, but imparts malice to it. The whole point of the quote function on this message board is to ensure that people's words are not misquoted or misused.
The polar opposite of what I actually said with a few additions which I didn't even touch on. Disingenuous. I find it fascinating that you claim to want to have a respectful discussion, but rather than respond to what I actually type, you create a falsehood and then argue from the position of that falsehood.
In my opinion, and your mileage may vary, all peoples who have a distinct identity and desire self-determination have the right to self-determination. (Though putting that into practice requires more than simple having the "desire").
No, it is demonstrably true. The Jewish people share the same language, religion, culture, life celebrations, rituals, legal framework, literature, historical records. They carried that culture with them to the diaspora, and returned with it. It would be silly to reject the obvious.
Since my post was not intended to demonstrate my knowledge of ancient Levantine history, and since I have not attempted to do so, you have no idea the extent of my study and knowledge. And, again with the misrepresentation. I have not at all denied the existence of other (ancient) cultures. My post referenced the two that were relevant to the discussion.
Bible Hub? Seriously? I am well aware of the many ancient cultures of the land, many of them known only from references from a certain collection of ancient writings.
Here's the thing, though. A Moabite, a Hittite, and a Jebusite walk into a bar and sit down next to an Israeli Jew and an Arab Palestinian. How do we distinguish between the five persons seated at the table? Which of these five identities have the right to self-determination and why?
