Haaretz: Israel Really Portrays Itself as "Israel At War" Rather Than in the Middle of a Mass Slaughter of Women & Children in Gaza

[Grau]

"IDF CONFESSES TO MURDERING STARVING REFUGEES"

The IDF is not using food as bait in order to kill civilians. That is simply false reporting.

The IDF is, apparently, employing lethal methods for crowd control, and is, as always, faced with trying to identify armed members of Hamas and now other armed groups disguised as civilians within the population receiving aid. Hamas is deliberately attempting to sabotage GHF since it can't profit from it.

Now, if you want to talk about bait ... let's discuss Hamas' use of young children to bait and collect information from IDF soldiers.

Thanks for responding

I would not write anything that I could support with multiple credible sources that include photographic proof of IDF firing on starving men, women and children as well as Israeli confessions of this same policy.

"View the footage here, here, and here." (*)

Next, please explain how this fact is "false reporting" when Israeli officials, Israeli military officers and Israeli soldiers even admitted that they were ordered to fire on starving Palestinian refugees.

"soldiers and officers saying they were instructed to open fire on starving civilians gathered near aid centers." (**)

This irrefutable policy of deliberately murdering starving and homeless Palestinian refugees is not limited to only the Gaza genocide.

IDF also deliberately targets and murders Gaza's fishermen () and children at play (*).

Re:

Now, if you want to talk about bait ... let's discuss Hamas' use of young children to bait and collect information from IDF soldiers.

While I do not doubt that the Israeli created Hamas is guilty of cruel criminality and deception, I find it highly unlikely that Hamas would expect children to be successful spies when IDF shoots them for fun.

Please explain how you know IDF's "Bait and Murder" policy to be "false reporting" when IDF's officials, soldiers and officers openly confess to their murderous criminality.

Thanks,



(*). "The IDF is murdering civilians seeking food in Gaza"

The IDF is murdering civilians seeking food in Gaza

Genocide EmergencyThe Israel Defense Force Is Murdering Civilians Seeking Food in GazaJuly 1, 2025 Since 27 May 2025, the Israel Defense Force has killed over 410 Palestinians who were seeking food at distribution sites organized by Israel and the USA. These were not accidental deaths. They were...

www.genocidewatch.com

Numerous videos show Israeli forces intentionally opening fire on unarmed civilians. View the footage here, here, and here. These killings were not “collateral damage” from combat. They were murders." CONTINUED

(**) "Israeli army officers admit shelling hungry civilians at Gaza aid points"​

Israeli army officers admit shelling hungry civilians at Gaza aid points

Officials in Israeli army’s Southern Command acknowledge 'that civilians had been killed due to inaccurate and uncalculated artillery fire,” reports Haaretz daily - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

EXCERPT "Israeli military officials admitted Monday that they fired on Palestinians seeking humanitarian aid at distribution points in Gaza, including with artillery shells, even when the civilians posed no threat to the forces, according to a report by Haaretz newspaper.

The admission followed a Friday report by the Israeli newspaper, which cited testimonies from soldiers and officers saying they were instructed to open fire on starving civilians gathered near aid centers." CONTINUED


(***). “Israel fires at Gaza boats, kills Palestinian fisherman: hospital officials”
Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/07/us-israel-palestinians-idUSKBN0M30HP20150307#ZWIs3J97 zbCT54DK.99

EXCERPT “The Israeli navy opened fire on boats off the coast of the Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing one Palestinian fisherman, Gaza hospital officials said.

Citing security concerns, Israel keeps a naval blockade on Gaza, .....and has designated a six nautical-mile fishing zone off the enclave's coast."CONTINUED


(****). “Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It”

VIDEO: Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It | Neo-Griot

EXCERPT “Footage released on YouTube clearly shows Israeli soldiers firing live rounds at Palestinian children playing on a roof in Al Khalil, an area of Hebron in Occupied Palestine.

An important piece of evidence attesting to the brutality of Israeli occupation. Yet, Facebook users have reported that the social media platform is preventing them from sharing the video.” CONTINUED

 

[Shusha]

I would not write anything that I could support with multiple credible sources that include photographic proof of IDF firing on starving men, women and children as well as Israeli confessions of this same policy.

"View the footage here, here, and here." (*)

I am composing a longer response. But I would recommend you review the terms "photographic proof". I watched the first link for the first several minutes, and the entirety of the other two.

There is no image or video of IDF soldiers targeting live fire at civilians at a humanitarian aid distribution point. So no, you do not have "photographic proof" of your claim.

 

[Shusha]

(**) "Israeli army officers admit shelling hungry civilians at Gaza aid points"​

Israeli army officers admit shelling hungry civilians at Gaza aid points

Officials in Israeli army’s Southern Command acknowledge 'that civilians had been killed due to inaccurate and uncalculated artillery fire,” reports Haaretz daily - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

EXCERPT "Israeli military officials admitted Monday that they fired on Palestinians seeking humanitarian aid at distribution points in Gaza, including with artillery shells, even when the civilians posed no threat to the forces, according to a report by Haaretz newspaper.

The admission followed a Friday report by the Israeli newspaper, which cited testimonies from soldiers and officers saying they were instructed to open fire on starving civilians gathered near aid centers." CONTINUED

A few notes on "credible sources", if you don't mind.

I always, always seek the source material. You know the children's game of "telephone"? Where you repeat a phrase and pass it along to the next person and so on, until it returns to the originator and then laugh at how much the original message has been corrupted? Always go to the source. Failing that, as close to the source as you can get.

This article is not a direct source of information, but is "telephoning" an unnamed Israeli newspaper and a Haaretz article (without linking to either). I'd prefer to read both of these articles, rather than the one "telephoned" in.

I have not been able to access the Haaretz article I assume they are referring to (the "Killing Fields" one), as it is paywalled, though I believe I have found a reprint of same in another source. I have no way of knowing which "Israeli newspaper" article is referred to, but suggest it may be this one from the Times of Israel.

Either way -- the actual SOURCE material would be direct quotes from the soldiers reporting and/or direct quotes from the military officials.


Here is another perspective, outlining the misrepresentations in the Haaretz article, The Myth of the Israeli "Killing Fields" (excerpts, emphasis mine):

While the facts aren’t always easy to discern in the fog of war, there are a number of problems with the Haaretz report. The most significant is that the original Hebrew version of the article says something quite different to the widely reported English version. It reports that soldiers were ordered to fire toward crowds, not at them. This is not a subtle difference. ‘Toward’ is what soldiers call warning shots. It is a common practice for militaries, and one the British Army frequently used in Afghanistan. ‘At’ is to fire at a crowd or an individual – in other words, ‘at’ is the preposition you would use if you wanted to accuse the IDF of war crimes, instead of employing a common tactic.

As someone with firsthand experience of operating firearms and firing warning shots in high-pressure environments, I can tell you what ‘firing toward’ looks like. It is shooting in the air, or far short of a crowd, or well off to the side. It is done to send a warning, not to take a life. Put bluntly, it is crowd control by intimidation. It is not an ideal tactic, and it would not be used if there were better options available.

(****). “Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It”

VIDEO: Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It | Neo-Griot

EXCERPT “Footage released on YouTube clearly shows Israeli soldiers firing live rounds at Palestinian children playing on a roof in Al Khalil, an area of Hebron in Occupied Palestine.

An important piece of evidence attesting to the brutality of Israeli occupation. Yet, Facebook users have reported that the social media platform is preventing them from sharing the video.” CONTINUED

No video = no evidence = no credibility.

 

[Shusha]

While I do not doubt that <snip> Hamas is guilty of cruel criminality and deception, I find it highly unlikely that Hamas would expect children to be successful spies

Let me attempt to convince you, then. First, can you acknowledge that images of Hamas members posing with children (including very small children) holding weapons are easily and readily available, indicating some measure of widespread occurrence ? Second, can you admit that images of "summer schools" teaching military tactics to children are also commonplace? Third, can you admit that there is evidence of "school plays" where children rehearse the killing (stabbing, suicide bombing, shooting) of Jews? And lastly, can you admit that there is some level of "glory to the martyrs" prevalent in Gazan culture and society, which even if not directly "taught" to the children, certainly becomes part of the fabric of their beliefs?

Yes? With me so far? This is just the foundation.

Here are two examples (with photographic and video evidence, actually!) of Hamas exploiting children (war crime, crime against humanity):

Four-year-old sent to IDF post. (I can't find it now, but an article I previously read claimed that the child in this instance, or a child in a similar instance, was instructed to count how many soldiers were present at the guard post.)

Hamas commander admitting to using children for military purposes. (Note the purpose of use of children for military purposes, admitted at the end of the clip: (paraphrased) "You send a child to preserve your own life."

 

[gipper]

Yes. Hamas do the right thing.

Gipper, do better.

Idiot. Supports a genocide while blaming Hamas. Find a brain cell.

 

[HeyNorm]

Idiot. Supports a genocide while blaming Hamas. Find a brain cell.

A genocide created by Hamas?

Do bettee

 

[gipper]

A genocide created by Hamas?

Do bettee

If that helps you sleep at night, while your nation of Israel is slaughtering children.

TRAITOR!

 

[Woodznutz]

The Zionist capacity for self-deception and victimhood is unique in the history of the species. This is a land grab pure and simple. Hamas is Mossad creation. These are the deceivers who attacked the USS Liberty. Lies, indignation, self-pity. The worst people humanity has ever produced.

"Israel at War Day 571 | Israelis Pause Across Country as Sirens Mark Memorial Day for Fallen Soldiers, Terror Victims"

IDF: Drone fired from Yemen intercepted before entering Israeli airspace

ISRAEL: Right-wing Activists Storm Israeli Shul During Israeli-Palestinian Memorial Day Screening GAZA: Israeli Strikes in Gaza Killed at Least 51 Palestinians, Hamas-run Health Ministry Says ICJ: World Court Holds Hearings on Israel's Obligation to Facilitate Aid to Gaza and West Bank UNRWA...

www.haaretz.com

View attachment 1105915



View attachment 1105921

View attachment 1105916

Brings new meaning to "**** around and find out."

 

[Woodznutz]

If that helps you sleep at night, while your nation of Israel is slaughtering children.

TRAITOR!

Look at the big picture. God is preparing the region for Armageddon.

 

[gipper]

Look at the big picture. God is preparing the region for Armageddon.

Yeah that’s what the idiots think to justify mass murder. I don’t think Jesus would approve.

 

[gipper]

Look at the big picture. God is preparing the region for Armageddon.

Yeah that’s what the idiots think to justify mass murder. I don’t think Jesus would approve.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah that’s what the idiots think to justify mass murder. I don’t think Jesus would approve.

Gaza is just a preview. Jesus Christ will bring the real bloodbath (or so the Book says).

 

[Grau]

A few notes on "credible sources", if you don't mind.

I always, always seek the source material. You know the children's game of "telephone"? Where you repeat a phrase and pass it along to the next person and so on, until it returns to the originator and then laugh at how much the original message has been corrupted? Always go to the source. Failing that, as close to the source as you can get.

This article is not a direct source of information, but is "telephoning" an unnamed Israeli newspaper and a Haaretz article (without linking to either). I'd prefer to read both of these articles, rather than the one "telephoned" in.

I have not been able to access the Haaretz article I assume they are referring to (the "Killing Fields" one), as it is paywalled, though I believe I have found a reprint of same in another source. I have no way of knowing which "Israeli newspaper" article is referred to, but suggest it may be this one from the Times of Israel.

Either way -- the actual SOURCE material would be direct quotes from the soldiers reporting and/or direct quotes from the military officials.


Here is another perspective, outlining the misrepresentations in the Haaretz article, The Myth of the Israeli "Killing Fields" (excerpts, emphasis mine):

While the facts aren’t always easy to discern in the fog of war, there are a number of problems with the Haaretz report. The most significant is that the original Hebrew version of the article says something quite different to the widely reported English version. It reports that soldiers were ordered to fire toward crowds, not at them. This is not a subtle difference. ‘Toward’ is what soldiers call warning shots. It is a common practice for militaries, and one the British Army frequently used in Afghanistan. ‘At’ is to fire at a crowd or an individual – in other words, ‘at’ is the preposition you would use if you wanted to accuse the IDF of war crimes, instead of employing a common tactic.

As someone with firsthand experience of operating firearms and firing warning shots in high-pressure environments, I can tell you what ‘firing toward’ looks like. It is shooting in the air, or far short of a crowd, or well off to the side. It is done to send a warning, not to take a life. Put bluntly, it is crowd control by intimidation. It is not an ideal tactic, and it would not be used if there were better options available.



No video = no evidence = no credibility.

First, I got home one recently and want to thank you again for your kind words and thoughtful offer while I was in the hospital.
They were an uplifting reminder that it is entirely possible for mature and rational adults to hold different opinions without injecting personal animosity into discussions.

I'm afraid that I may not have either the time or energy to respond fully. to all the posts that you have written but I'll try.

Re:

Always go to the source. Failing that, as close to the source as you can get.

I agree. That's why I included confessions made by IDF officials, soldiers and officers that they had fired on groups of hungry civilians seeking food.

“In the place where I was, between one and five people were killed every day,” an IDF soldier told Haaretz. “They’re fired upon as if they were an attacking force: no crowd-dispersal methods are used, no tear gas — they shoot with everything imaginable: heavy machine guns, grenade machine guns, mortars.”

"When the Helping Hand Holds a Machine Gun"

When the Helping Hand Holds a Machine Gun

These killings weren’t accidents. They weren’t provoked. They didn’t come about as an attempt to quell riots. The people killed were not collateral damage in attempts to kill Hamas fighters. The shootings were not in retaliation for any violence from the Palestinians. Israeli troops were ordered...

www.counterpunch.org

----------------------------
I understand that you don't like the Haaretz article so I included something from the BBC stating the same fact.

1. "Israeli Army Admits Firing on Starving Palestinians at Aid Points in Gaza"​

Israeli Army Admits Firing on Starving Palestinians at Aid Points in Gaza

Israeli military officials admit to targeting Palestinians at aid distribution sites in Gaza with live and artillery fire.. dozens of deaths.

www.watanserb.com

EXCERPT "Israeli military officials admitted Monday to opening fire on Palestinians seeking aid at distribution points in the Gaza Strip — including with artillery — even though the civilians posed no threat to Israeli forces." CONTINUED


2. “Gaza aid contractor tells BBC he saw colleagues fire on hungry Palestinians”

Gaza aid contractor tells BBC he saw colleagues fire on hungry Palestinians

The Israel- and US-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation has strongly denied the allegation.

www.bbc.com

EXCERPT “Since the GHF started up, Israeli forces have killed more than 400 Palestinians trying to retrieve food aid from its sites, the UN and local doctors say. Israel says the new distribution system stops aid going to Hamas.

Earlier this week more than 170 charities and other NGOs called for the GHF to be shut down. The organisations, including Oxfam and Save the Children, say Israeli forces and armed groups "routinely" open fire on Palestinians seeking aid.

He told us that each site had CCTV monitoring the activity in the area, and GHF insistence that no one there had been hurt or shot at was "an absolute bare-faced lie".

GHF said that gunfire heard in footage shared with the BBC was coming from Israeli forces.” CONTINUED

--------------------------------------------

Re:

It reports that soldiers were ordered to fire toward crowds, not at them. This is not a subtle difference. ‘Toward’ is what soldiers call warning shots.

Even though it's been over 50 years ago and far away,(Laos / Vietnam) I am intimately familiar with "Warning shots".

First, if IDF was only firing "warning shots", how did they manage to kill about 500 hungry and unarmed civilians?

Next, how does one fire "warning shots" in overcrowded Gaza using tank and artillery fire without expecting to kill someone, somewhere?

Finally, as I have enjoyed target shooting most of my life and attempt to employ safe shooting practices, there is no way to safely fire "toward" a crowd of people in an overcrowded setting especially when it includes tank and artillery fire.

Thanks,

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The organisations, including Oxfam and Save the Children, say Israeli forces and armed groups "routinely" open fire on Palestinians seeking aid.

That would be Hamas.

 

[Shusha]

First, I got home one recently and want to thank you again for your kind words and thoughtful offer while I was in the hospital.

You are most welcome.

They were an uplifting reminder that it is entirely possible for mature and rational adults to hold different opinions without injecting personal animosity into discussions.

Of course it is possible. And discussion of this caliber is important in creating understanding and working towards peaceful and pragmatic solutions.

I agree. That's why I included confessions made by IDF officials, soldiers and officers that they had fired on groups of hungry civilians seeking food.

Great. And since we already have these (in both an inaccurate English translation and the original Hebrew), there isn't much need for posting more telephone articles. Let's work with these. It might save us both some reading time.

First, if IDF was only firing "warning shots", how did they manage to kill about 500 hungry and unarmed civilians?

Next, how does one fire "warning shots" in overcrowded Gaza using tank and artillery fire without expecting to kill someone, somewhere?

Finally, as I have enjoyed target shooting most of my life and attempt to employ safe shooting practices, there is no way to safely fire "toward" a crowd of people in an overcrowded setting especially when it includes tank and artillery fire.

I don't know that we are actually disagreeing here. Perhaps in scope or scale, but not on the foundation. Let's see if we have actually reached some measure of common ground.

Can we agree on the following as facts:

• The IDF soldiers have not been instructed to deliberately target and kill small numbers of civilian seeking aid at aid sites.
• The IDF does appear to have a policy of using lethal methods for crowd control.
• A number of civilians have been killed and injured, though the count may be somewhat unreliable coming from GMoH (Hamas).
• Hamas is motivated to dismantle the GHF sites to regain control of aid and it is likely that at least some armed Hamas fighters are embedded within the civilian population and pose a real threat to the IDF and aid staff. (Hamas attacks GHF site)
• Hamas may be firing at civilians at aid sites in order to discourage their use.

Can we agree on the following as opinion:

• The use of lethal methods of crowd control at aid sites fails to adequately make humanitarian zones distinct from combat zones, and as such, should be investigated as a possible war crime.

 

[gipper]

Gaza is just a preview. Jesus Christ will bring the real bloodbath (or so the Book says).

Yeah sure.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah sure.

It's shaping up that way.

 

[Grau]

It's shaping up that way.

Please clarify.

Thanks,

 

[Woodznutz]

Please clarify.

Thanks,

End time prophecy has the Jews drawing the other Israelite nations (the WASP democracies) into a fiery conflagration. If Israel is severely threatened, we will certainly be drawn in. See Ezekiel 5.

 

[Grau]

You are most welcome.

Of course it is possible. And discussion of this caliber is important in creating understanding and working towards peaceful and pragmatic solutions.

Great. And since we already have these (in both an inaccurate English translation and the original Hebrew), there isn't much need for posting more telephone articles. Let's work with these. It might save us both some reading time.

I don't know that we are actually disagreeing here. Perhaps in scope or scale, but not on the foundation. Let's see if we have actually reached some measure of common ground.

Can we agree on the following as facts:

• The IDF soldiers have not been instructed to deliberately target and kill small numbers of civilian seeking aid at aid sites.
• The IDF does appear to have a policy of using lethal methods for crowd control.
• A number of civilians have been killed and injured, though the count may be somewhat unreliable coming from GMoH (Hamas).
• Hamas is motivated to dismantle the GHF sites to regain control of aid and it is likely that at least some armed Hamas fighters are embedded within the civilian population and pose a real threat to the IDF and aid staff. (Hamas attacks GHF site)
• Hamas may be firing at civilians at aid sites in order to discourage their use.

Can we agree on the following as opinion:

• The use of lethal methods of crowd control at aid sites fails to adequately make humanitarian zones distinct from combat zones, and as such, should be investigated as a possible war crime.

Thanks for another refreshingly civil and substantive response.

While I really do fully understand the communication pitfalls as illustrated by the "Telephone game" as well as the difficulties that arise when dealing with translations, there are reports of IDF deliberately targeting civilians from former and current IDF members, from "Breaking the Silence" and sources other than the Haaretz piece on "Killing Fields" such as BBC. (1)

So, I am basing my opinion not only on my own experiences or the Haaretz "Killing Fields" article but on UN reports, testimony of Medical Personnel and GHF eyewitnesses supported by CCTV.

Re: [From your earlier comment]

It reports that soldiers were ordered to fire toward crowds, not at them. This is not a subtle difference. ‘Toward’ is what soldiers call warning shots.

It's not that I am unaware of communication problems as illustrated by the "Telephone game" and mistranslations that can occur. That's why I base my opinions on both my own experience in the US military and sources other than the Haaretz article, "Killing Field".

I even remember orders to fire warning shots while in Laos / Vietnam long ago.
Our training was to fire warning shots into the air or nearby ground, not "Toward" civilians.
Additionally, Gaza is so densely populated that firing warning shots especially from tanks and artillery is almost certain to cause casualties somewhere.

The difference is simply that when ethical and professional soldiers fire warning shots, there are either no or far fewer casualties.

Even if you dispute the reports of about 500 deaths and about 2,000 wounded, half as many casualties are impossible if ethical and professional soldiers are truly ordered to fire warning shots.

Re:

Can we agree on the following as facts:

• 1. The IDF soldiers have not been instructed to deliberately target and kill small numbers of civilian seeking aid at aid sites.
• 2. The IDF does appear to have a policy of using lethal methods for crowd control.
• 3. A number of civilians have been killed and injured, though the count may be somewhat unreliable coming from GMoH (Hamas).
• 4. Hamas is motivated to dismantle the GHF sites to regain control of aid and it is likely that at least some armed Hamas fighters are embedded within the civilian population and pose a real threat to the IDF and aid staff. (Hamas attacks GHF site)
• 5. Hamas may be firing at civilians at aid sites in order to discourage their use.

[ I added numbers for clarity ]

Re: #1 Multiple reports other than the Haaretz article, IDF confessions, CCTV recordings, testimony from Medical Personnel, GHF workers and the UN all report IDF firing at hungry civilians attempting to get food.
The number of casualties would suggest that firing at civilians was at least tolerated if not ordered.

Re: #2. It would appear so.

Re #3. Agree.

Re #4. I don't doubt that Hamas would like to dismantle the Israeli - US run GHF just as IDF would like to control it to further its agenda: Gaza's residents dead or gone.

Re: #5 I don't know. Hamas is not as motivated to kill or expel Gaza's residents as IDF and the current Israeli government has made clear its intention of seizing Gaza for Israeli use.

--------------------------------------

Re:

Can we agree on the following as opinion:

• The use of lethal methods of crowd control at aid sites fails to adequately make humanitarian zones distinct from combat zones, and as such, should be investigated as a possible war crime.

Yes, it is clear that the current measures are both inhumane and unsustainable.

The practice of having a hostile Israeli government with an objective of killing / expelling Gaza's residents in control of relief efforts is ripe for abuse.

I doubt very seriously that the Israeli people would trust Hamas to be in charge of their food supply.

Finally, I've mentioned that I believe we both would like a peaceful, just and durable solution that is essential for Israel's future security and that of former Palestine's non Jewish residents.

In addition to my empathy for Gaza's long tormented residents, I am also concerned about the growing anti Jewish / anti Israeli sentiment around the world that is fueled by the criminal excesses of the Netanyahu government.


Thanks,


PS: For every article / source I cite, I read and reject about 10.


(1). “Gaza aid contractor tells BBC he saw colleagues fire on hungry Palestinians”

Gaza aid contractor tells BBC he saw colleagues fire on hungry Palestinians

The Israel- and US-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation has strongly denied the allegation.

www.bbc.com

EXCERPT “Since the GHF started up, Israeli forces have killed more than 400 Palestinians trying to retrieve food aid from its sites, the UN and local doctors say. Israel says the new distribution system stops aid going to Hamas.

Earlier this week more than 170 charities and other NGOs called for the GHF to be shut down. The organisations, including Oxfam and Save the Children, say Israeli forces and armed groups "routinely" open fire on Palestinians seeking aid.

He told us that each site had CCTV monitoring the activity in the area, and GHF insistence that no one there had been hurt or shot at was "an absolute bare-faced lie".

GHF said that gunfire heard in footage shared with the BBC was coming from Israeli forces.” CONTINUED