Guns rarely used for self defence

[Skylar]

Totally ignored the pilot who murdered all those people didn't you.

That's anecdotal evidence. And argument by anecdote is a classic fallacy of logic. Why would I ignore the CDC yearly totals for the entire nation....in favor of one cherry picked anecdotal example when we're discussing probability?

Intellectual dishonesty is a trait prevalent in almost every anti gun person I have ever seen.

Or....you can't refute or even address what is actually being said. So you refute arguments that aren't being made,and recite a predigested script. I'm not even antigun. I own two. I'm simply aware that trying to use one for self defense is far more likely to result in harm to me and my family than it is an intruder.

Again, its 80 times more likely that you or a member of your family will kill themselves with a fire arm than kill an intruder. And having a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide by about double. The odds of an accidental shooting is about double that of shooting an intruder.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in a million odds that you'll shoot some intruder?

Again, those are absolute shit odds. You'd laugh in a bookie's face if he offered you those numbers. Yet you double down on them with your own family?

No thank you.

You do not fail to follow up the tradition.

You're going through the motions in some predigested script titled 'anti-gun debate' in your head. But you're not actually addressing anything I've said. You're refuting studies I've never cited, debunking points I've never made...

.....and failing spectacularly to even address the points I've made. Let alone refute them with anything more than naked denial.

Again, no thank you.

That's because what you are saying is not relevant. A person who uses a gun to commit suicide is GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Taking the gun away from him won't alter the result.

And that's where you're wrong. Take a gun out of the scenario and the odds of suicide drop by HALF. Access to guns doubles the odds of suicide. Even taking into account all other means available. The methods available for suicide dramatically impacts the odds of committing suicide. With guns DOUBLING those odds.

That's what you don't seem to be getting.

Even go state by state and you can see the difference. With the states with highest gun ownership rates having significantly higher suicide rates. While the states with the lowest gun ownership rates have significantly lower suicide rates.

Accidental shootings are more than TWICE as likely you shooting an intruder. You or your family using the gun for suicide is 80 times more likely. And guns in the home double the rates of suicide.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in 1,000,000 chance that you're going to shoot an intruder instead? That's shit. Absolute shit odds.

Having a gun doesn't make you safer. As gun ownership doesn't reduce the odds of ANY major crime, including burglury, home invasion, or robbery. Women in households with guns are 3 times more likely to be murdered even without domestic violence. Include domestic violence and they are 5 times more likely to be murdered. With 3/4 of women who are killed in their homes, most of them by guns.

Having a gun in your home for self defense does NOT make your family safer. Having a gun in your home for self defense increases the odds of a whole bunch of horrible outcomes. Which is why I don't keep a loaded weapon in my home.

Pull the firing pin out of your weapon and keep it unloaded. Its far more likely to protect you and your family than if you left it in. As you get all the benefit of 'intimidation' but none of the risk to your family. While the odds of you actually pulling the trigger on an intruder are less than half getting of struck by lightning.

And once again, the Japanese experience proves you are wrong.

It doesn't. As we're not Japanese and this isn't Japan. We're American. And in our nation and culture access to guns increases the odds of suicide by double. You can go state by state, and the states with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. The States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

Demonstrating elegantly than in this country that a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide.

It triples the odds of a woman being murdered without taking domestic violence into account. And quintuples the odds if there is DV. You're twice as likely to die from an accidental shooting than shoot an intruder. Its 80 times more likely that your gun will be used for suicide than shooting an intruder.

Worse, you've already admitted that the overwhelming majority of defensive use of fire arms is pulling the weapon and NOT firing. Making a gun without a firing pin or ammo just as effective in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of a fire arm.

But with none of the accompanying risks to you or your family.

Simply put, a gun in the home for self defense does NOT make you safer. But less safe.

 

[2aguy]

The Japanese had a long standing tradition of ritual suicide. Comparing suicide rates in Japan to any other country is dumb. You should be comparing US suicide rates to countries with similar cultures. The U.S. Suicide rate is much higher than Canada, Great Britain, Australia but if you take guns out of the equation, rates in all of these countries are almost identical.

Gun ownership drives the higher rate of US murder, suicide, and accidental shootings.

We do not have a common culture with Britain, Canada and Australia.....they are all involved in a monarchy, british culture touches both canada and australia in ways it doesn't touch us...and Britain had feudalism...which inspired a monopoly on weapons in the government, and it experienced the horrors of World war 1 and 2....as did the rest of Europe....

And of course the gun violence in Australia is confined to biker gangs and immigrant areas of Australia, especially around their port.....

 

[2aguy]

Totally ignored the pilot who murdered all those people didn't you.

That's anecdotal evidence. And argument by anecdote is a classic fallacy of logic. Why would I ignore the CDC yearly totals for the entire nation....in favor of one cherry picked anecdotal example when we're discussing probability?

Intellectual dishonesty is a trait prevalent in almost every anti gun person I have ever seen.

Or....you can't refute or even address what is actually being said. So you refute arguments that aren't being made,and recite a predigested script. I'm not even antigun. I own two. I'm simply aware that trying to use one for self defense is far more likely to result in harm to me and my family than it is an intruder.

Again, its 80 times more likely that you or a member of your family will kill themselves with a fire arm than kill an intruder. And having a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide by about double. The odds of an accidental shooting is about double that of shooting an intruder.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in a million odds that you'll shoot some intruder?

Again, those are absolute shit odds. You'd laugh in a bookie's face if he offered you those numbers. Yet you double down on them with your own family?

No thank you.

You do not fail to follow up the tradition.

You're going through the motions in some predigested script titled 'anti-gun debate' in your head. But you're not actually addressing anything I've said. You're refuting studies I've never cited, debunking points I've never made...

.....and failing spectacularly to even address the points I've made. Let alone refute them with anything more than naked denial.

Again, no thank you.

That's because what you are saying is not relevant. A person who uses a gun to commit suicide is GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Taking the gun away from him won't alter the result.

And that's where you're wrong. Take a gun out of the scenario and the odds of suicide drop by HALF. Access to guns doubles the odds of suicide. Even taking into account all other means available. The methods available for suicide dramatically impacts the odds of committing suicide. With guns DOUBLING those odds.

That's what you don't seem to be getting.

Even go state by state and you can see the difference. With the states with highest gun ownership rates having significantly higher suicide rates. While the states with the lowest gun ownership rates have significantly lower suicide rates.

Accidental shootings are more than TWICE as likely you shooting an intruder. You or your family using the gun for suicide is 80 times more likely. And guns in the home double the rates of suicide.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in 1,000,000 chance that you're going to shoot an intruder instead? That's shit. Absolute shit odds.

Having a gun doesn't make you safer. As gun ownership doesn't reduce the odds of ANY major crime, including burglury, home invasion, or robbery. Women in households with guns are 3 times more likely to be murdered even without domestic violence. Include domestic violence and they are 5 times more likely to be murdered. With 3/4 of women who are killed in their homes, most of them by guns.

Having a gun in your home for self defense does NOT make your family safer. Having a gun in your home for self defense increases the odds of a whole bunch of horrible outcomes. Which is why I don't keep a loaded weapon in my home.

Pull the firing pin out of your weapon and keep it unloaded. Its far more likely to protect you and your family than if you left it in. As you get all the benefit of 'intimidation' but none of the risk to your family. While the odds of you actually pulling the trigger on an intruder are less than half getting of struck by lightning.

And once again, the Japanese experience proves you are wrong.

It doesn't. As we're not Japanese and this isn't Japan. We're American. And in our nation and culture access to guns increases the odds of suicide by double. You can go state by state, and the states with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. The States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

Demonstrating elegantly than in this country that a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide.

It triples the odds of a woman being murdered without taking domestic violence into account. And quintuples the odds if there is DV. You're twice as likely to die from an accidental shooting than shoot an intruder. Its 80 times more likely that your gun will be used for suicide than shooting an intruder.

Worse, you've already admitted that the overwhelming majority of defensive use of fire arms is pulling the weapon and NOT firing. Making a gun without a firing pin or ammo just as effective in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of a fire arm.

But with none of the accompanying risks to you or your family.

Simply put, a gun in the home for self defense does NOT make you safer. But less safe.

You have no idea what you are talking about...and are foolish to have a gun that doesn't work....

A woman in a home with a non alcoholic, non drug using, non criminal male and a gun has nothing to fear...it is the drugs, alcohol and crime that lead to higher rates of women dying at the hands of men...they need to pick better men......

And again....you guys don't want to admit that guns aren't the issue in suicide since Japan, China, and South Korea all have higher incidents of suicide than we do...and no guns......

And the shooting of an intruder is not the only measure of the defensive use of guns...you anti gun extremists want to pass that off as truth but it isn't.....most cases of self defense against violent criminals do not require shooting them and those that require shooting don't often kill them.....

And each year on average 2 million Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....far more than are taken in accidents or accidental death with guns.....in 2013....only 505 accidental gun deaths....way down from 2010....

 

[Skylar]

And you get all of those advantages with a gun with no firing pin and no ammo....with none of risk to your family.

Until you get a violent criminal who also has a gun.....or decides to challenge you anyway and attacks you regardless of your gun......then you have nothing.......

It could happen. But the odds of actually having to shoot an intruder are less than half that of being struck by lightning. Making the scenario you describe ridiculously unlikely.

While a functional gun in the home doubles the rates of suicide. Triples the rate of murder for women in the home. And quintuples the rate of murder when there is DV. There's twice the chance of an accidental shooting as there is shooting an intruder. With a gun in the house 80 times more likely to be used to for suicide than to shoot an intruder.

Those scenarios are far, far more likely. Its a simple matter of the odds. Stastically, a gun used for self defense is worse than useless in keeping your family safe.

And since the 'overwhelming majority of defensive uses of fire arms' is pulling a gun by NOT firing it, a gun without a firing pin works just as well. And doesn't increase any of the odds of horrible outcomes associated with having a functioning gun in the house.

I'll take those odds.

 

[2aguy]

And you get all of those advantages with a gun with no firing pin and no ammo....with none of risk to your family.

Until you get a violent criminal who also has a gun.....or decides to challenge you anyway and attacks you regardless of your gun......then you have nothing.......

It could happen. But the odds of actually having to shoot an intruder are less than half that of being struck by lightning. Making the scenario you describe ridiculously unlikely.

While a functional gun in the home doubles the rates of suicide. Triples the rate of murder for women in the home. And quintuples the rate of murder when there is DV. There's twice the chance of an accidental shooting as there is shooting an intruder. With a gun in the house 80 times more likely to be used to for suicide than to shoot an intruder.

Those scenarios are far, far more likely. Its a simple matter of the odds. Stastically, a gun used for self defense is worse than useless in keeping your family safe.

And since the 'overwhelming majority of defensive uses of fire arms' is pulling a gun by NOT firing it, a gun without a firing pin works just as well. And doesn't increase any of the odds of horrible outcomes associated with having a functioning gun in the house.

I'll take those odds.

Sorry...guns do no such thing.....ask the Japanese, South Koreans and Chinese....as well as the other countries with strict gun control that have higher suicide rates than we do......

When you face the guy with the gun and you pull your dysfunctional gun on them.....if you are still alive...let us know how it turned out......

 

[2aguy]

Okay...smart anti gun extremists......if guns are the problem....why do France, Belgium, Finland, Luxembourg and Sweden all have a higher suicide rate than we do....

And we are at 10.2 while denmark is 10.1........

SUICIDE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY

 

[Skylar]

That's anecdotal evidence. And argument by anecdote is a classic fallacy of logic. Why would I ignore the CDC yearly totals for the entire nation....in favor of one cherry picked anecdotal example when we're discussing probability?

Or....you can't refute or even address what is actually being said. So you refute arguments that aren't being made,and recite a predigested script. I'm not even antigun. I own two. I'm simply aware that trying to use one for self defense is far more likely to result in harm to me and my family than it is an intruder.

Again, its 80 times more likely that you or a member of your family will kill themselves with a fire arm than kill an intruder. And having a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide by about double. The odds of an accidental shooting is about double that of shooting an intruder.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in a million odds that you'll shoot some intruder?

Again, those are absolute shit odds. You'd laugh in a bookie's face if he offered you those numbers. Yet you double down on them with your own family?

No thank you.

You're going through the motions in some predigested script titled 'anti-gun debate' in your head. But you're not actually addressing anything I've said. You're refuting studies I've never cited, debunking points I've never made...

.....and failing spectacularly to even address the points I've made. Let alone refute them with anything more than naked denial.

Again, no thank you.

That's because what you are saying is not relevant. A person who uses a gun to commit suicide is GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Taking the gun away from him won't alter the result.

And that's where you're wrong. Take a gun out of the scenario and the odds of suicide drop by HALF. Access to guns doubles the odds of suicide. Even taking into account all other means available. The methods available for suicide dramatically impacts the odds of committing suicide. With guns DOUBLING those odds.

That's what you don't seem to be getting.

Even go state by state and you can see the difference. With the states with highest gun ownership rates having significantly higher suicide rates. While the states with the lowest gun ownership rates have significantly lower suicide rates.

Accidental shootings are more than TWICE as likely you shooting an intruder. You or your family using the gun for suicide is 80 times more likely. And guns in the home double the rates of suicide.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in 1,000,000 chance that you're going to shoot an intruder instead? That's shit. Absolute shit odds.

Having a gun doesn't make you safer. As gun ownership doesn't reduce the odds of ANY major crime, including burglury, home invasion, or robbery. Women in households with guns are 3 times more likely to be murdered even without domestic violence. Include domestic violence and they are 5 times more likely to be murdered. With 3/4 of women who are killed in their homes, most of them by guns.

Having a gun in your home for self defense does NOT make your family safer. Having a gun in your home for self defense increases the odds of a whole bunch of horrible outcomes. Which is why I don't keep a loaded weapon in my home.

Pull the firing pin out of your weapon and keep it unloaded. Its far more likely to protect you and your family than if you left it in. As you get all the benefit of 'intimidation' but none of the risk to your family. While the odds of you actually pulling the trigger on an intruder are less than half getting of struck by lightning.

And once again, the Japanese experience proves you are wrong.

It doesn't. As we're not Japanese and this isn't Japan. We're American. And in our nation and culture access to guns increases the odds of suicide by double. You can go state by state, and the states with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. The States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

Demonstrating elegantly than in this country that a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide.

It triples the odds of a woman being murdered without taking domestic violence into account. And quintuples the odds if there is DV. You're twice as likely to die from an accidental shooting than shoot an intruder. Its 80 times more likely that your gun will be used for suicide than shooting an intruder.

Worse, you've already admitted that the overwhelming majority of defensive use of fire arms is pulling the weapon and NOT firing. Making a gun without a firing pin or ammo just as effective in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of a fire arm.

But with none of the accompanying risks to you or your family.

Simply put, a gun in the home for self defense does NOT make you safer. But less safe.

You have no idea what you are talking about...and are foolish to have a gun that doesn't work....

I know exactly what I'm talking about. As I none of my guns in my home are loaded, with my ammo stored off site. So I know far more about this topic than you do.

As was pointed out, the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of fire involve pulling the weapon but NOT firing it. Thus, an unloaded gun works just as well as a loaded on in the overwhelming jajority of defensive uses.

And has none of the horrible outcomes

A woman in a home with a non alcoholic, non drug using, non criminal male and a gun has nothing to fear...it is the drugs, alcohol and crime that lead to higher rates of women dying at the hands of men...they need to pick better men......

Suicide and accidental shootings are no respecter of your assumptions. And having a gun

And again....you guys don't want to admit that guns aren't the issue in suicide since Japan, China, and South Korea all have higher incidents of suicide than we do...and no guns......

As you pointed out, we don't share a common culture with any of those countries...or Australia, GB, or Canada. In THIS country, a gun in the home doubles suicide rates. With states that higher gun ownership rates having higher suicide rates. And states with lower gun ownership rates having lower suicide rates.

Guns make virtually every suicide attempt a successful one. And guns make impulsive suicide attempts much easier. If you're going to jump off a bridge for example, you've gotta drive all the way down to the bridge. If you want to shoot yourself with a gun, you need only reach across the table. From decision to execution, its a handful of seconds. Where other suicide methods can take hours or even days to prepare for.

Which is why half of our suicides involve guns (21,000 gun suicides). But more than 1,000,000 suicide attempts. You don't 'attempt' suicide with a gun. You do it.

 

[Skylar]

Okay...smart anti gun extremists......if guns are the problem....why do France, Belgium, Finland, Luxembourg and Sweden all have a higher suicide rate than we do....

And we are at 10.2 while denmark is 10.1........

SUICIDE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY

If having a gun has nothing to do with suicide rates in this country.....then why does having a gun in your home here double your odds of suicide? Why are more than half of all suicides in the US gun inflicted?

And why are guns used in so few *attempted* suicides. Despite suicides outnumbered by suicide attempts by a factor about 25 to 1.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

Lying again, huh?

Your master Soros thanks you.

 

[2aguy]

That's because what you are saying is not relevant. A person who uses a gun to commit suicide is GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Taking the gun away from him won't alter the result.

And that's where you're wrong. Take a gun out of the scenario and the odds of suicide drop by HALF. Access to guns doubles the odds of suicide. Even taking into account all other means available. The methods available for suicide dramatically impacts the odds of committing suicide. With guns DOUBLING those odds.

That's what you don't seem to be getting.

Even go state by state and you can see the difference. With the states with highest gun ownership rates having significantly higher suicide rates. While the states with the lowest gun ownership rates have significantly lower suicide rates.

Accidental shootings are more than TWICE as likely you shooting an intruder. You or your family using the gun for suicide is 80 times more likely. And guns in the home double the rates of suicide.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in 1,000,000 chance that you're going to shoot an intruder instead? That's shit. Absolute shit odds.

Having a gun doesn't make you safer. As gun ownership doesn't reduce the odds of ANY major crime, including burglury, home invasion, or robbery. Women in households with guns are 3 times more likely to be murdered even without domestic violence. Include domestic violence and they are 5 times more likely to be murdered. With 3/4 of women who are killed in their homes, most of them by guns.

Having a gun in your home for self defense does NOT make your family safer. Having a gun in your home for self defense increases the odds of a whole bunch of horrible outcomes. Which is why I don't keep a loaded weapon in my home.

Pull the firing pin out of your weapon and keep it unloaded. Its far more likely to protect you and your family than if you left it in. As you get all the benefit of 'intimidation' but none of the risk to your family. While the odds of you actually pulling the trigger on an intruder are less than half getting of struck by lightning.

And once again, the Japanese experience proves you are wrong.

It doesn't. As we're not Japanese and this isn't Japan. We're American. And in our nation and culture access to guns increases the odds of suicide by double. You can go state by state, and the states with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. The States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

Demonstrating elegantly than in this country that a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide.

It triples the odds of a woman being murdered without taking domestic violence into account. And quintuples the odds if there is DV. You're twice as likely to die from an accidental shooting than shoot an intruder. Its 80 times more likely that your gun will be used for suicide than shooting an intruder.

Worse, you've already admitted that the overwhelming majority of defensive use of fire arms is pulling the weapon and NOT firing. Making a gun without a firing pin or ammo just as effective in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of a fire arm.

But with none of the accompanying risks to you or your family.

Simply put, a gun in the home for self defense does NOT make you safer. But less safe.

You have no idea what you are talking about...and are foolish to have a gun that doesn't work....

I know exactly what I'm talking about. As I none of my guns in my home are loaded, with my ammo stored off site. So I know far more about this topic than you do.

As was pointed out, the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of fire involve pulling the weapon but NOT firing it. Thus, an unloaded gun works just as well as a loaded on in the overwhelming jajority of defensive uses.

And has none of the horrible outcomes

A woman in a home with a non alcoholic, non drug using, non criminal male and a gun has nothing to fear...it is the drugs, alcohol and crime that lead to higher rates of women dying at the hands of men...they need to pick better men......

Suicide and accidental shootings are no respecter of your assumptions. And having a gun

And again....you guys don't want to admit that guns aren't the issue in suicide since Japan, China, and South Korea all have higher incidents of suicide than we do...and no guns......

As you pointed out, we don't share a common culture with any of those countries...or Australia, GB, or Canada. In THIS country, a gun in the home doubles suicide rates. With states that higher gun ownership rates having higher suicide rates. And states with lower gun ownership rates having lower suicide rates.

Guns make virtually every suicide attempt a successful one. And guns make impulsive suicide attempts much easier. If you're going to jump off a bridge for example, you've gotta drive all the way down to the bridge. If you want to shoot yourself with a gun, you need only reach across the table. From decision to execution, its a handful of seconds. Where other suicide methods can take hours or even days to prepare for.

Which is why half of our suicides involve guns (21,000 gun suicides). But more than 1,000,000 suicide attempts. You don't 'attempt' suicide with a gun. You do it.

Guns make virtually every suicide attempt a successful one.

As does jumping in front of a train or off of a building...and hanging seems to work pretty well too...since it is the most common way to kill yourself......

And China, Japan, South Korea and Lithuainia have all have higher suicide rates than us...

 

[2aguy]

Okay...smart anti gun extremists......if guns are the problem....why do France, Belgium, Finland, Luxembourg and Sweden all have a higher suicide rate than we do....

And we are at 10.2 while denmark is 10.1........

SUICIDE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY

If having a gun has nothing to do with suicide rates in this country.....then why does having a gun in your home here double your odds of suicide? Why are more than half of all suicides in the US gun inflicted?

And why are guns used in so few *attempted* suicides. Despite suicides outnumbered by suicide attempts by a factor about 25 to 1.

easy...take guns out of the homes of those suicidal people...and they will still commit suicide.......it didn't change the suicide rates in countries that banned guns like Australia...they simply changed methods....

Suicide is a mental issue, not a gun issue.....people who want to kill themselves do...like in Japan, South Korea, China, France, Denmark Ukraine, Sweden and Russia....all have more gun control than we do and higher suicide rates than we do....

 

[RandallFlagg]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

I have thousands of hours of military training with every gun imaginable. I have NEVER hurt myself and the only time I have EVER taken a human life was at the behest of the United States government. Break into MY house and they will carry the perp out - feet first.

But, you go ahead with your "confiscation" ideas.

As I and my local Sheriff were discussing a few months back - if there were ever a confiscation order given - he would not enforce it. I don't blame him for one minute. I would HATE to be the first LEO through the door of most gun owners houses. Wise up guy. Let's begin re-opening the mental institutions (that we closed long ago) and get the monsters off the streets rather than allowing them to run wild.

 

[Skylar]

And that's where you're wrong. Take a gun out of the scenario and the odds of suicide drop by HALF. Access to guns doubles the odds of suicide. Even taking into account all other means available. The methods available for suicide dramatically impacts the odds of committing suicide. With guns DOUBLING those odds.

That's what you don't seem to be getting.

Even go state by state and you can see the difference. With the states with highest gun ownership rates having significantly higher suicide rates. While the states with the lowest gun ownership rates have significantly lower suicide rates.

Accidental shootings are more than TWICE as likely you shooting an intruder. You or your family using the gun for suicide is 80 times more likely. And guns in the home double the rates of suicide.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in 1,000,000 chance that you're going to shoot an intruder instead? That's shit. Absolute shit odds.

Having a gun doesn't make you safer. As gun ownership doesn't reduce the odds of ANY major crime, including burglury, home invasion, or robbery. Women in households with guns are 3 times more likely to be murdered even without domestic violence. Include domestic violence and they are 5 times more likely to be murdered. With 3/4 of women who are killed in their homes, most of them by guns.

Having a gun in your home for self defense does NOT make your family safer. Having a gun in your home for self defense increases the odds of a whole bunch of horrible outcomes. Which is why I don't keep a loaded weapon in my home.

Pull the firing pin out of your weapon and keep it unloaded. Its far more likely to protect you and your family than if you left it in. As you get all the benefit of 'intimidation' but none of the risk to your family. While the odds of you actually pulling the trigger on an intruder are less than half getting of struck by lightning.

And once again, the Japanese experience proves you are wrong.

It doesn't. As we're not Japanese and this isn't Japan. We're American. And in our nation and culture access to guns increases the odds of suicide by double. You can go state by state, and the states with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. The States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

Demonstrating elegantly than in this country that a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide.

It triples the odds of a woman being murdered without taking domestic violence into account. And quintuples the odds if there is DV. You're twice as likely to die from an accidental shooting than shoot an intruder. Its 80 times more likely that your gun will be used for suicide than shooting an intruder.

Worse, you've already admitted that the overwhelming majority of defensive use of fire arms is pulling the weapon and NOT firing. Making a gun without a firing pin or ammo just as effective in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of a fire arm.

But with none of the accompanying risks to you or your family.

Simply put, a gun in the home for self defense does NOT make you safer. But less safe.

You have no idea what you are talking about...and are foolish to have a gun that doesn't work....

I know exactly what I'm talking about. As I none of my guns in my home are loaded, with my ammo stored off site. So I know far more about this topic than you do.

As was pointed out, the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of fire involve pulling the weapon but NOT firing it. Thus, an unloaded gun works just as well as a loaded on in the overwhelming jajority of defensive uses.

And has none of the horrible outcomes

A woman in a home with a non alcoholic, non drug using, non criminal male and a gun has nothing to fear...it is the drugs, alcohol and crime that lead to higher rates of women dying at the hands of men...they need to pick better men......

Suicide and accidental shootings are no respecter of your assumptions. And having a gun

And again....you guys don't want to admit that guns aren't the issue in suicide since Japan, China, and South Korea all have higher incidents of suicide than we do...and no guns......

As you pointed out, we don't share a common culture with any of those countries...or Australia, GB, or Canada. In THIS country, a gun in the home doubles suicide rates. With states that higher gun ownership rates having higher suicide rates. And states with lower gun ownership rates having lower suicide rates.

Guns make virtually every suicide attempt a successful one. And guns make impulsive suicide attempts much easier. If you're going to jump off a bridge for example, you've gotta drive all the way down to the bridge. If you want to shoot yourself with a gun, you need only reach across the table. From decision to execution, its a handful of seconds. Where other suicide methods can take hours or even days to prepare for.

Which is why half of our suicides involve guns (21,000 gun suicides). But more than 1,000,000 suicide attempts. You don't 'attempt' suicide with a gun. You do it.

Guns make virtually every suicide attempt a successful one.

As does jumping in front of a train or off of a building...and hanging seems to work pretty well too...since it is the most common way to kill yourself......

Oh, there are equally effective ways of killing yourself. But they take more prep time. The success rate for a suicide attempts in about 4%. 96% survive. While way more than 90% of attempts at suicide with a gun succeed.

Which is why guns are associated with more than HALF of all suicides in this country. And why having a gun in the home doubles your rate of actually killing yourself.

And China, Japan, South Korea and Lithuainia have all have higher suicide rates than us...

As you've pointed out, we don't share a culture with China, Japan, South Korea, or Lithuania. In this country, a gun in your home doubles your chances of suicide.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Off-duty officer shoots ex-wife dead after New Jersey car chase - Yahoo News

Driving an SUV, Phillip Seidle, 51, was pursuing his recently divorced wife, Tamara Seidle, in her car when she crashed into another vehicle in Asbury Park, New Jersey, said Charles Webster, spokesman of the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office.

Seidle, a 22-year veteran of New Jersey's Neptune Township Police Department, got out with his service weapon, a .40-caliber Glock handgun, and fired several shots into his ex-wife's car from the driver's side, Webster said.

He then made his way to the front of the car and fired more shots at her through the windshield, Webster said.​

The Gun Fetishists now have to explain how he was just "defending himself" against his unarmed ex-wife and 7 year old daughter.

Dying wifes words "if only he would have beaten me to death after the chase, I could die happy.."

Derideo_Retard logic in action...

{
James Robarge, 45, was convicted of second-degree murder in the death of his wife, Kelly Robarge, who disappeared from her Charlestown home June 27, 2013. Her badly decomposed body, with her hands and head detached, was found 10 days later in Unity.

The couple's two daughters spoke tearfully about losing their mother and best friend but bemoaned the loss of their father as well.

"I love and miss my mom more and more every day," Ciera Robarge said. "My mom didn't deserve this."}

Man Who Beat Wife To Death After She Filed For Divorce Gets 30 Years

The dying words of the wife were "I'm so happy to die - since I wasn't shot."

 

[RandallFlagg]

Off-duty officer shoots ex-wife dead after New Jersey car chase - Yahoo News

Driving an SUV, Phillip Seidle, 51, was pursuing his recently divorced wife, Tamara Seidle, in her car when she crashed into another vehicle in Asbury Park, New Jersey, said Charles Webster, spokesman of the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office.

Seidle, a 22-year veteran of New Jersey's Neptune Township Police Department, got out with his service weapon, a .40-caliber Glock handgun, and fired several shots into his ex-wife's car from the driver's side, Webster said.

He then made his way to the front of the car and fired more shots at her through the windshield, Webster said.​

The Gun Fetishists now have to explain how he was just "defending himself" against his unarmed ex-wife and 7 year old daughter.

Dying wifes words "if only he would have beaten me to death after the chase, I could die happy.."

Derideo_Retard logic in action...

{
James Robarge, 45, was convicted of second-degree murder in the death of his wife, Kelly Robarge, who disappeared from her Charlestown home June 27, 2013. Her badly decomposed body, with her hands and head detached, was found 10 days later in Unity.

The couple's two daughters spoke tearfully about losing their mother and best friend but bemoaned the loss of their father as well.

"I love and miss my mom more and more every day," Ciera Robarge said. "My mom didn't deserve this."}

Man Who Beat Wife To Death After She Filed For Divorce Gets 30 Years

The dying words of the wife were "I'm so happy to die - since I wasn't shot."

Indeed. Cain killed Able with a rock. Man will ALWAYS find a way to kill.

 

[Uncensored2008]

For those usages, wouldn't a toy gun work just as well?

I urge you to try that and will even nominate you for a Darwin Award.

 

[Skylar]

Okay...smart anti gun extremists......if guns are the problem....why do France, Belgium, Finland, Luxembourg and Sweden all have a higher suicide rate than we do....

And we are at 10.2 while denmark is 10.1........

SUICIDE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY

If having a gun has nothing to do with suicide rates in this country.....then why does having a gun in your home here double your odds of suicide? Why are more than half of all suicides in the US gun inflicted?

And why are guns used in so few *attempted* suicides. Despite suicides outnumbered by suicide attempts by a factor about 25 to 1.

easy...take guns out of the homes of those suicidal people...and they will still commit suicide.......it didn't change the suicide rates in countries that banned guns like Australia...they simply changed methods....

It changes them in this country. Which is what we're discussing. A person may *attempt* suicide if there is no gun in the home. But 96% of suicide attempts are survivd. While far less than 10% of suicide attempts with a gun are survived.

Which is why more than half of all suicides involve a gun.

Suicide is a mental issue, not a gun issue.....people who want to kill themselves do...like in Japan, South Korea, China, France, Denmark Ukraine, Sweden and Russia....all have more gun control than we do and higher suicide rates than we do....

And in this country, with our culture, guns increase suicide rates. States with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

What they do in Japan doesn't affect any of these numbers. What we do here does.

 

[Skylar]

For those usages, wouldn't a toy gun work just as well?

I urge you to try that and will even nominate you for a Darwin Award.

Will I win an award when no one in my family is accidentally shot, nor commits suicide with the toy gun? Accidental shootings are twice as likely as shooting an intruder. A gun in the home is 80 times more likely to be used for suicide than shooting an intruder. While the odds of having to fire your weapon at an intruder less than half the odds of being struck by lightning.

Its a numbers game. And in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of fire arms a toy gun works just as well as a real one.

I'll take those odds.

 

[Ernie S.]

Totally ignored the pilot who murdered all those people didn't you.

That's anecdotal evidence. And argument by anecdote is a classic fallacy of logic. Why would I ignore the CDC yearly totals for the entire nation....in favor of one cherry picked anecdotal example when we're discussing probability?

Intellectual dishonesty is a trait prevalent in almost every anti gun person I have ever seen.

Or....you can't refute or even address what is actually being said. So you refute arguments that aren't being made,and recite a predigested script. I'm not even antigun. I own two. I'm simply aware that trying to use one for self defense is far more likely to result in harm to me and my family than it is an intruder.

Again, its 80 times more likely that you or a member of your family will kill themselves with a fire arm than kill an intruder. And having a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide by about double. The odds of an accidental shooting is about double that of shooting an intruder.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in a million odds that you'll shoot some intruder?

Again, those are absolute shit odds. You'd laugh in a bookie's face if he offered you those numbers. Yet you double down on them with your own family?

No thank you.

You do not fail to follow up the tradition.

You're going through the motions in some predigested script titled 'anti-gun debate' in your head. But you're not actually addressing anything I've said. You're refuting studies I've never cited, debunking points I've never made...

.....and failing spectacularly to even address the points I've made. Let alone refute them with anything more than naked denial.

Again, no thank you.

That's because what you are saying is not relevant. A person who uses a gun to commit suicide is GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Taking the gun away from him won't alter the result.

And that's where you're wrong. Take a gun out of the scenario and the odds of suicide drop by HALF. Access to guns doubles the odds of suicide. Even taking into account all other means available. The methods available for suicide dramatically impacts the odds of committing suicide. With guns DOUBLING those odds.

That's what you don't seem to be getting.

Even go state by state and you can see the difference. With the states with highest gun ownership rates having significantly higher suicide rates. While the states with the lowest gun ownership rates have significantly lower suicide rates.

Accidental shootings are more than TWICE as likely you shooting an intruder. You or your family using the gun for suicide is 80 times more likely. And guns in the home double the rates of suicide.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in 1,000,000 chance that you're going to shoot an intruder instead? That's shit. Absolute shit odds.

Having a gun doesn't make you safer. As gun ownership doesn't reduce the odds of ANY major crime, including burglury, home invasion, or robbery. Women in households with guns are 3 times more likely to be murdered even without domestic violence. Include domestic violence and they are 5 times more likely to be murdered. With 3/4 of women who are killed in their homes, most of them by guns.

Having a gun in your home for self defense does NOT make your family safer. Having a gun in your home for self defense increases the odds of a whole bunch of horrible outcomes. Which is why I don't keep a loaded weapon in my home.

Pull the firing pin out of your weapon and keep it unloaded. Its far more likely to protect you and your family than if you left it in. As you get all the benefit of 'intimidation' but none of the risk to your family. While the odds of you actually pulling the trigger on an intruder are less than half getting of struck by lightning.

And once again, the Japanese experience proves you are wrong.

It doesn't. As we're not Japanese and this isn't Japan. We're American. And in our nation and culture access to guns increases the odds of suicide by double. You can go state by state, and the states with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. The States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

Demonstrating elegantly than in this country that a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide.

It triples the odds of a woman being murdered without taking domestic violence into account. And quintuples the odds if there is DV. You're twice as likely to die from an accidental shooting than shoot an intruder. Its 80 times more likely that your gun will be used for suicide than shooting an intruder.

Worse, you've already admitted that the overwhelming majority of defensive use of fire arms is pulling the weapon and NOT firing. Making a gun without a firing pin or ammo just as effective in the overwhelming majority of defensive uses of a fire arm.

But with none of the accompanying risks to you or your family.

Simply put, a gun in the home for self defense does NOT make you safer. But less safe.

I get it that you don't trust yourself with a functional firearm.
I do. The .40 semi loaded with 11 hollow points, safe in its holster on my hip will not go bang and scare you unless you enter my home uninvited.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
It changes them in this country. Which is what we're discussing. A person may *attempt* suicide if there is no gun in the home. But 96% of suicide attempts are survivd. While far less than 10% of suicide attempts with a gun are survived.

Which is why more than half of all suicides involve a gun.

Really?

Care to offer a source for your claim?

And in this country, with our culture, guns increase suicide rates. States with higher gun ownership rates have higher suicide rates. States with lower gun ownership rates have lower suicide rates.

That is a blatant lie.

What they do in Japan doesn't affect any of these numbers. What we do here does.

It does though expose your lie that guns are the cause of suicide.

Those who want to kill themselves, kill themselves.

Your zeal to deny civil rights to others is not based on the desire to lower suicide - just your desire to end liberty.