Guns prevent crimes

[task0778]

According to Gunfacts.info:

• Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
• Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
• 60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
• Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
• Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

Note: the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. Sometimes the fact that the very presence of an armed person, may prevent what could have been a bloodbath cuz in many cases the would-be shooter wants to shoot people before he himself gets shot. What is far more common is innocent gun owners using or brandishing a weapon and saving lives without any injuries at all except sometimes for the assailant. Most of the time such incidents don't get the press that a shooting does.

In “Defensive Gun Use is More Than Shooting Bad Guys,” James Agresti, founder and president of JustFacts.org, provided overwhelming evidence from multiple sources showing that defensive gun use is more common and effective than anti-gun fanatics like The New York Times suggest or will admit. Agresti says that “people who use a gun for defense rarely harm (much less kill) criminals. This is because criminals often back off when they discover their targets are armed.”

John Lott, author of the book, “More Guns, Less Crime,” is president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, another outstanding source for info on this subject. He writes:

By 66 percent to 32 percent, economists and criminologists answer that gun-free zones are “more likely to attract criminals than they are to deter them.” A 60 percent to 40 percent margin thinks that guns in the home do not increase suicides. And a 62 percent to 35 percent spread says that guns are used in self-defense to stop crime more often than in the commission of crime.

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...

fee.org

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

"Guns prevent crimes"​

You lost the Left right there

 

[Rye Catcher]

According to Gunfacts.info:

• Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
• Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
• 60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
• Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
• Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

Note: the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. Sometimes the fact that the very presence of an armed person, may prevent what could have been a bloodbath cuz in many cases the would-be shooter wants to shoot people before he himself gets shot. What is far more common is innocent gun owners using or brandishing a weapon and saving lives without any injuries at all except sometimes for the assailant. Most of the time such incidents don't get the press that a shooting does.

In “Defensive Gun Use is More Than Shooting Bad Guys,” James Agresti, founder and president of JustFacts.org, provided overwhelming evidence from multiple sources showing that defensive gun use is more common and effective than anti-gun fanatics like The New York Times suggest or will admit. Agresti says that “people who use a gun for defense rarely harm (much less kill) criminals. This is because criminals often back off when they discover their targets are armed.”

John Lott, author of the book, “More Guns, Less Crime,” is president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, another outstanding source for info on this subject. He writes:

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...

fee.org

Tell this to the families whose children were murdered in classrooms in all of the Several States since Columbine in 1999.

 

[JohnDB]

'Edged weapon' used in 'targeted attack' of four slain Idaho college students, police say

Police in the city of Moscow said autopsies will be completed later this week in an effort to "provide more definitive information" in the homicide case.

www.nbcnews.com

No gun involved in this mass murder.

Mass murder can happen without a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Tell this to the families whose children were murdered in classrooms in all of the Several States since Columbine in 1999.

I think that is a total of 13 school shootings since 1966? You doofus......In a country of over 350 million people?


The problem here is that three very differently defined terms are being used somewhat incautiously and interchangeably: school shooting, mass shooting, and mass school shooting. Uvalde was a mass school shooting; the 26 previous tragedies at schools this year were not.
---
Many of the 26 previous shootings involved disputes between students in parking lots, or after athletic events, and all of them resulted in one or zero deaths. These deaths are still incredibly tragic, of course. But they are fundamentally unlike what happened in Uvalde.
Uvalde is a mass school shooting. This is defined in different ways too: an incident in which at least four people (some counters make it three) are shot and/or killed. The Gun Violence Archive counts incidents in which at least four people were shot. Under this definition, many incidents of street crime and domestic violence count as mass shootings, even if no deaths result. A stricter tally of mass school shootings, conductedby criminologists for Scientific American, only includes incidents where the shootings resulted in at least four deaths. Using their criteria, the number of mass school shootings in the U.S. since the year 1966 is 13. These crimes claimed the lives of 146 people in total.



There Have Been 13 Mass School Shootings Since 1966, Not 27 This Year

A total of 146 people in 56 years....

Dear kill 200 people every freaking year....

Ladders kill 350 people every single year.........

 

[task0778]

Tell this to the families whose children were murdered in classrooms in all of the Several States since Columbine in 1999.

How many of those shootings would not have happened if there were armed people in the schools? How many of those shootings would not have happened if proper security measures had been followed? And how many shootings did not happen in other schools because there were armed people?

 

[BothWings]

When I first moved into my semi-rural rustic subdivision, I asked a friend who lived nearby what crime was like there. He said there really isn't very much because there's so many guns criminals know better. 6 years down the road I have found that to be quite true!

 

[Coyote]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

According to Pew: “a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.”

79% of all murders involve a gun.

States with the highest rates of gun deaths: MS, LA, WY, MO, AL.
States with the lowest: NY, RI, NJ, MA, HI.

America leads high income nations in gun violence.

The surge in gun violence correlates with the surge in gun buying.

Between 2000 and 2020 31,780 children died from gun violence. Gun violence is now the leading cause of death for American children.

Firearm homicide rate in the US is 4.12.
Canada 0.5
UK 0.04

Homicide rate in US is 3x that of Canada.

For years Republicans in Congress have effectively blocked research into gun violence, so it’s only been recently that we might be able to see some actual research.

 

[2aguy]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

According to Pew: “a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.”

79% of all murders involve a gun.

States with the highest rates of gun deaths: MS, LA, WY, MO, AL.
States with the lowest: NY, RI, NJ, MA, HI.

America leads high income nations in gun violence.

The surge in gun violence correlates with the surge in gun buying.

Between 2000 and 2020 31,780 children died from gun violence. Gun violence is now the leading cause of death for American children.

Firearm homicide rate in the US is 4.12.
Canada 0.5
UK 0.04

Homicide rate in US is 3x that of Canada.

For years Republicans in Congress have effectively blocked research into gun violence, so it’s only been recently that we might be able to see some actual research.

1) Suicides are not a gun issue.......you need to explain South Korea, Japan, and China, they have higher level of suicide than we do yet extreme gun control laws.....then you have to explain the Western countries with extreme gun control that also have higher suicide rates than we do...

STAT	Canada	United States
Ages 15-24	15 per 100,000 people Ranked 4th. 9% more than United States	13.7 per 100,000 people Ranked 7th.
Ages 25-34	18 per 100,000 people Ranked 8th. 18% more than United States	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th.
Ages 35-44	19.2 per 100,000 people Ranked 8th. 25% more than United States	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 12th.
Ages 45-54	18.5 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th. 29% more than United States	14.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 13th.
Ages 55-64	15.1 per 100,000 people Ranked 11th. 14% more than United States	13.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 13th.
Ages 65-74	12.1 per 100,000 people Ranked 14th.	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 11th. 26% more than Canada
Ages above 75	12.2 per 100,000 people Ranked 15th.	22 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th. 80% more than Canada

SOURCES: GECD Society at a Glance 2001, Statistical Annex Table D3

Canada vs United States: Crime > Suicide rates Facts and Stats
Methods in japan..

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jea/14/6/14_6_187/_pdf

 

[2aguy]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

According to Pew: “a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.”

79% of all murders involve a gun.

States with the highest rates of gun deaths: MS, LA, WY, MO, AL.
States with the lowest: NY, RI, NJ, MA, HI.

America leads high income nations in gun violence.

The surge in gun violence correlates with the surge in gun buying.

Between 2000 and 2020 31,780 children died from gun violence. Gun violence is now the leading cause of death for American children.

Firearm homicide rate in the US is 4.12.
Canada 0.5
UK 0.04

Homicide rate in US is 3x that of Canada.

For years Republicans in Congress have effectively blocked research into gun violence, so it’s only been recently that we might be able to see some actual research.

2) Our current increase in murder rates are due solely to the policies of the democrat party......in 2015, when the teenager in Ferguson attacked the police officer, the democrat party decided it was time to destroy local police forces....this created an environment where the police stopped doing active police work, retired or quit in massive numbers....and the criminals responded by becoming more aggressive and murderous...

The democrats, at the same time, decided to push the concept of "DeCarceration," of releasing the most violent and dangerous criminals no matter how often they committed crimes....

That is why our gun murder rates went up.....

They did not go up because normal people own and carry guns.....

How do we know?

27 years of actual experience in the U.S...

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
======




The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.

 

[2aguy]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

According to Pew: “a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.”

79% of all murders involve a gun.

States with the highest rates of gun deaths: MS, LA, WY, MO, AL.
States with the lowest: NY, RI, NJ, MA, HI.

America leads high income nations in gun violence.

The surge in gun violence correlates with the surge in gun buying.

Between 2000 and 2020 31,780 children died from gun violence. Gun violence is now the leading cause of death for American children.

Firearm homicide rate in the US is 4.12.
Canada 0.5
UK 0.04

Homicide rate in US is 3x that of Canada.

For years Republicans in Congress have effectively blocked research into gun violence, so it’s only been recently that we might be able to see some actual research.

3) The state level data you have to use is a lie......the anti-gun fanatics use it to fool uninformed Americans who don't actually look at the data....

So let’s briefly recap. Gun Murder Rate is not correlated with firearm ownership rate in the United States, on a state by state basis. Firearm Homicide Rate is not correlated with guns per capita globally. It’s not correlated with guns per capita among peaceful countries, nor among violent countries, nor among European countries. So what in the heck is going on in the media, where we are constantly berated with signaling indicating that “more guns = more murder?”
---

One: They’re sneaking suicide in with the data, and then obfuscating that inclusion with rhetoric.​

This is the biggest trick I see in the media,
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Two: They’re cooking the homicide data.​

First off, they didn’t use actual gun ownership rates. They used fractional suicide-by-gun rates as a proxy for gun ownership. This is a very common technique by gun policy researchers, but the results of that analysis ended up being very different from the ownership data in the Injury Prevention journal in my first graph of the article.
--
Second, they didn’t look only at guns. They looked at a wide array of possible factors that would influence gun homicide, and controlled against them in a complex, multivariate analysis. Generally, I would characterize this as the proper approach. Here is a quote from the study:
----
So let’s start by clearing the air. The two primary correlations they found were not guns, they were income inequality and black population ratio. Does this mean that we can reduce firearm homicide by getting rid of black people?
No.
No it does not.
Don’t even go there.
---
The main difference here, is they’re leaving off data they don’t want you to see. Guns-per-capita varies widely across these data points. Certainly the USA tops the list, but Switzerland at 24 guns per 100 inhabitants has five times more homicides than New Zealand at around 30 guns per 100 inhabitants. Germany has around 30 guns per 100 inhabitants and they’ve got a gun homicide rate that’s a third of Belgium’s, who only have around 17 guns per 100 inhabitants. So Vox has a nice graph here, but they’re intentionally omitting data that would unravel their case.
Further, they’re excluding data points. The USA is #10 in “Human Development Index” according to the current rankings as of March 2018. Norway and Iceland are ahead of us on the HDI rank, but are missing from the graphic. Curiously, both of these countries have over 30 guns per 100 inhabitants as well.
So let’s pause for a moment, purely because this is pretty fun, and look at that HDI list. Norway (31.3 guns per 100 inhabitants), Switzerland (24.5 guns per 100 inhabitants), Germany (30.3 guns per 100 inhabitants), Iceland (30.3 guns per 100 inhabitants) and Canada (30.8 guns per 100 inhabitants) are all higher than the USA on the list, making it six of the top ten HDI ranked countries at over 24 guns per 100 inhabitants. There are only 15 countries in the world with gun ownership rates this high, and 6 are in the top ten of HDI rank.
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Note the subtle rhetorical bait and switch. First Vox initiates a very noticeable, very specific conversation about homicide, while leaving the “ownership” data out, and then they subtly switch to a graph which is dominated by suicide numbers without mentioning the word “suicide” once, to make you think they’re still talking about homicide, when they actually aren’t. Then they follow that graph up immediately with this one:
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One: This graph has also snuck suicide, accidents, police shootings and such in the back door, without alerting the reader of the bait and switch.
Two: This graph is leaving out a whole bunch of countries, carefully and selectively omitted to funnel the data into a trend.
Three: this graph is leaving out the most important number on the whole thing, which is the R^2 number. What level of correlation we have in this data is absolutely unclear. The only thing that actually draws your eye to believe in a correlation is the trendline itself. If you hide the USA for a moment, and erase the trendline, the data looks like a big uncorrelated mess. If you strip out suicide and accidents, it will become even more uncorrelated. If you add in all the countries they left out, you get an exact replica of my second graph in this article, which shows no correlation.
These are the tricks being played. The only way to even engage in this dialog rationally is to understand how the tricks work and keep an eye out for them. Especially when reading Vox, Mother Jones, Everytown for Gun Safety, and by transitive property, MSNBC, CNN, and the majority of the Blue Church sources, who use Everytown and such as blindly trusted sources when they publish their hastily thrown together articles on gun violence in the wake of one of our seemingly semi-annual yet statistically insignificant school shooting incidents.

Everybody's Lying About the Link Between Gun Ownership and Homicide
=========

http://reason.com/archives/2016/01/05/you-know-less-than-you-think-a/1

Do Gun Laws Stop Gun Crimes?
The same week Kristof's column came out, National Journal attracted major media attention with a showy piece of research and analysis headlined "The States With The Most Gun Laws See The Fewest Gun-Related Deaths." The subhead lamented: "But there's still little appetite to talk about more restrictions."
Critics quickly noted that the Journal's Libby Isenstein had included suicides among "gun-related deaths" and suicide-irrelevant policies such as stand-your-ground laws among its tally of "gun laws." That meant that high-suicide, low-homicide states such as Wyoming, Alaska, and Idaho were taken to task for their liberal carry-permit policies. Worse, several of the states with what the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considers terribly lax gun laws were dropped from Isenstein's data set because their murder rates were too low!
Another of National Journal's mistakes is a common one in gun science: The paper didn't look at gun statistics in the context of overall violent crime, a much more relevant measure to the policy debate. After all, if less gun crime doesn't mean less crime overall—if criminals simply substitute other weapons or means when guns are less available—the benefit of the relevant gun laws is thrown into doubt. When Thomas Firey of the Cato Institute ran regressions of Isenstein's study with slightly different specifications and considering all violent crime, each of her effects either disappeared or reversed.
Another recent well-publicized study trying to assert a positive connection between gun laws and public safety was a 2013 JAMA Internal Medicine article by the Harvard pediatrics professor Eric W. Fleegler and his colleagues, called "Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Fatalities in the United States." It offered a mostly static comparison of the toughness of state gun laws (as rated by the gun control lobbyists at the Brady Center) with gun deaths from 2007 to 2010.
"States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths," a Boston Globeheadline then announced. But once again, if you take the simple, obvious step of separating out suicides from murders, the correlations that buttress the supposed causations disappear. As John Hinderaker headlined his reaction at the Power Line blog, "New Study Finds Firearm Laws Do Nothing to Prevent Homicides."
Among other anomalies in Fleegler's research, Hinderaker pointed out that it didn't include Washington, D.C., with its strict gun laws and frequent homicides. If just one weak-gun-law state, Louisiana, were taken out of the equation, "the remaining nine lowest-regulation states have an average gun homicide rate of 2.8 per 100,000, which is 12.5% less than the average of the ten states with the strictest gun control laws," he found.

Public health researcher Garen Wintemute, who advocates stronger gun laws, assessed the spate of gun-law studies during an October interview with Slate and found it wanting: "There have been studies that have essentially toted up the number of laws various states have on the books and examined the association between the number of laws and rates of firearm death," said Wintemute, who is a medical doctor and researcher at the University of California, Davis. "That's really bad science, and it shouldn't inform policymaking."
Wintemute thinks the factor such studies don't adequately consider is the number of people in a state who have guns to begin with, which is generally not known or even well-estimated on levels smaller than national, though researchers have used proxies from subscribers to certain gun-related magazines and percentages of suicides committed with guns to make educated guesses. "Perhaps these laws decrease mortality by decreasing firearm ownership, in which case firearm ownership mediates the association," Wintemute wrote in a 2013 JAMA Internal Medicine paper. "But perhaps, and more plausibly, these laws are more readily enacted in states where the prevalence of firearm ownership is low—there will be less opposition to them—and firearm ownership confounds the association."










Would Cracking Down on Guns in the U.S. Really Reduce Violence? , by Robert VerBruggen, National Review

There is actually no simple correlation between states’ homicide rates and their gun-ownership rates or gun laws.
This has been shown numerous times, by different people, using different data sets.

A year ago, I took state gun-ownership levels reported by the Washington Post (based on a Centers for Disease Control survey) and compared them with murder rates from the FBI: no correlation.

The legal scholar Eugene Volokh has compared states’ gun laws (as rated by the anti-gun Brady Campaign) with their murder rates: no correlation.

David Freddoso of the Washington Examiner, a former National Review reporter, failed to find a correlation even between gun ownership in a state and gun murders specifically, an approach that sets aside the issue of whether gun availability has an effect on non-gun crime. (Guns can deter unarmed criminals, for instance, and criminals without guns may simply switch to other weapons.)


, I recently redid my analysis with a few tweaks. Instead of relying on a single year of survey data, I averaged three years. (The CDC survey, the best available for state-level numbers, included data on gun ownership only in 2001, 2002, and 2004. Those were the years I looked at.)

And instead of comparing CDC data with murder rates from a different agency, I relied on the CDC’s own estimates of death by assault in those years. Again: no correlation.

------

Left-leaning media outlets, from Mother Jones to National Journal, get around this absence of correlation by reporting numbers on “gun deaths” rather than gun homicides or homicides in general.

More than 60 percent of gun deaths nationally are suicides, and places with higher gun ownership typically see a higher percentage of their suicides committed with a gun.

Focusing on the number of gun deaths practically guarantees a finding that guns and violence go together. While it may be true that public policy should also seek to reduce suicide, it is homicide — often a dramatic mass killing — that usually prompts the media and politicians to call for gun control, and it is homicide that most influences people as they consider supporting measures to take away their fellow citizens’ access to guns.

There are large gaps among the states when it comes to homicide, with rates ranging all the way from about two to twelve per 100,000 in 2013, the most recent year of data available from the CDC. These disparities show that it’s not just guns that cause the United States to have, on average, a higher rate of homicide than other developed countries do. Not only is there no correlation between gun ownership and overall homicide within a state, but there is a strong correlation between gun homicide and non-gun homicide — suggesting that they spring from similar causes, and that some states are simply more violent than others. A closer look at demographic and geographic patterns provides some clues as to why this is.


Read more at: Would Cracking Down on Guns in the U.S. Really Reduce Violence? | National Review

 

[2aguy]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

According to Pew: “a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.”

79% of all murders involve a gun.

States with the highest rates of gun deaths: MS, LA, WY, MO, AL.
States with the lowest: NY, RI, NJ, MA, HI.

America leads high income nations in gun violence.

The surge in gun violence correlates with the surge in gun buying.

Between 2000 and 2020 31,780 children died from gun violence. Gun violence is now the leading cause of death for American children.

Firearm homicide rate in the US is 4.12.
Canada 0.5
UK 0.04

Homicide rate in US is 3x that of Canada.

For years Republicans in Congress have effectively blocked research into gun violence, so it’s only been recently that we might be able to see some actual research.

3) continued....

No, states with higher gun ownership don't have more gun murders

That looks a lot like a shotgun blast, because at least in 2014, the statistical case that high state gun ownership translates to more gun homicides was non-existent. This is what happens when you just look at the relevant numbers instead of cherrypicking whatever numbers tell the story you want. There's no significant statistical correlation here, whether or not you choose to include D.C. (the outlier, way up above the others). And in fact, when you just look at last year's gun homicide rate by state (calculated from FBI and Census data), you see that many of the states that they claim have low "gun death" rates actually have comparatively high rates of gun murders. New Jersey, for example, had a much higher gun murder rate than Idaho and Vermont.

So now you see why Vox, Mother Jones and others deliberately confuse the issue of gun violence by including gun deaths that don't involve violence: because their cherrypicking makes it seem like people in states with high gun ownership are more likely to shoot other people, when in fact it just isn't so. Perhaps there's another argument to be had about suicide, but it's a very different sort of debate. When most people think about gun control, they're worried about whether it can help stop them from being shot, not about whether it will prevent them from having a gun in case they become incredibly depressed and decide to end it all.


Obama Claims Other Countries With No Guns Safer; Here's Truth

The National Journal disproportionately excluded low-crime, pro-gun states such as Vermont, South Dakota, and Maine from its chart of homicide rates precisely because their homicide rate was low. These states have few gun laws (Vermont has the least of any state) and very low homicide rates. If you disproportionately exclude unregulated states that are safest from the calculation of which states have the lowest homicide rates, that will create the false impression that states with the most gun laws have the fewest gun deaths.

These “pro-gun” states have low homicide rates (for example, Vermont had the third lowest homicide rate in 2013, the lowest gun murder rate in 2010, and the second-lowest gun murder rate in 2007-2010. South Dakota had the fourth-lowest gun-homicide rate in 2007-2010).
But in its discussions of “Concealed Carry” and “Background Checks,” the National Journal deletes these states from its charts comparing pro-gun and anti-gun states by “Gun-related homicides per 100,000 people, by state (2013).” It deletes Vermont, South Dakota, Maine, and 8 other states (6 of which have few gun regulations) from each chart, claiming that these states had “too few homicides to calculate a reliable rate.” 9 of the 11 states excluded broadly allow concealed carry and do not impose additional background-check requirements beyond those contained in federal law. But the National Journal deliberately excluded those states, writing, “In 2013, Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming had too few homicides to calculate a reliable rate.”

************

It is truly bizarre to exclude the states with the fewest gun deaths from an article about what states have “the fewest gun deaths.” This is an egregious act of cherry-picking.
But that was apparently how the National Journal managed to claim that “the states that impose the most restrictions on gun users also have the lowest rates of gun-related deaths, while states with fewer regulations typically have a much higher death rate from guns.” (In 2013, the state with the nation’s lowest murder rate and lowest rate of gun-related homicides was Iowa, which is middling in terms of the number of gun laws. In 2007-2010, it ranked fifth-lowest in number of gun-related homicides. It does not have the “most gun laws.” It broadly permits concealed carry but also requires certain background checks. For some reason, the National Journal left Iowa in, while excluding other low-homicide, low-crime states like Vermont that have even fewer gun laws.).




The “pro-gun” states that consistently have higher “gun-related homicide” rates – such as Louisiana and South Carolina — have higher violent crime rates of all kinds, not just homicides or gun-related homicides. So it does not appear to be related to their gun laws. (For example, Louisiana and South Carolina have higher rates of non-gun-related homicide as well).

Other “pro-gun” states that have higher-than-average “gun-related deaths” than average – like Idaho and Wyoming – do not have high homicide rates, but rather higher use of guns in suicide. But suicide is not what people think of when a politician claims that guns kill people. Moreover, using a gun is not the easiest way to commit suicide, and “gun-related” suicides do not necessarily add much to the number of suicides, since in the absence of guns, many people will still commit suicide.

 

[2aguy]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

According to Pew: “a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.”

79% of all murders involve a gun.

States with the highest rates of gun deaths: MS, LA, WY, MO, AL.
States with the lowest: NY, RI, NJ, MA, HI.

America leads high income nations in gun violence.

The surge in gun violence correlates with the surge in gun buying.

Between 2000 and 2020 31,780 children died from gun violence. Gun violence is now the leading cause of death for American children.

Firearm homicide rate in the US is 4.12.
Canada 0.5
UK 0.04

Homicide rate in US is 3x that of Canada.

For years Republicans in Congress have effectively blocked research into gun violence, so it’s only been recently that we might be able to see some actual research.

And what Coyote doesn't want you to know?

American gun owners use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings....According to the Centers for Disease Control.

Also, the other countries in Europe....

All the gun murder in the entire 246 year history of the U.S. is less than 6 years of government murder in Europe.....and yet the Europeans and their associated western countries think they have a superior system than we do....

How do they figure that?

Our 2nd Amendment is primarily a Right because of the fear of a violent, tyrannical government. Throughout history, government has been the worst murderer ....... all around the world without exception......

Yet....our European posters and their western associates in Canada, New Zealand, Australia.....think that our gun Rights are more of an issue....

Again in 246 years of gun murder in the U.S..... if you average 10,000 gun murders a year, with the vast majority of victims not innocent civilians, but violent criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle....

2,460,000

Europe, between 1939-1946, really beginning in the early 1930s......

15 million murdered.


Not criminals, but innocent men, women and children, murdered by their governments cooperating with the German socialists.

This information, this historical fact, makes no difference to the anti-gunners on various discussion forums.....they seem to think that this was a fluke.....15 million murdered people.....it does boggle the mind that modern nation states could have done this ...but they did.

We are not talking about Medieval warlords.....Mongol hordes, Samurai warriors, Zulu kings....we are talking the modern nation states of 1930s Europe, with modern universities, democratic institutions, the rule of law, modern philosophical schools....religious institutions.....

and yet they still murdered innocent men, women and children. They rounded them up......put them on trains, marched them into forests....and murdered them. They were not criminals...they were not monsters. They were normal people....fathers, mothers, children. And their governments rounded them up and murdered them.

And these anti-gunners feel like they have the moral high ground when it comes to the gun control debate.

Are they delusional, dumb, or .......what?

 

[Moonglow]

I think that is a total of 13 school shootings since 1966? You doofus......In a country of over 350 million people?


The problem here is that three very differently defined terms are being used somewhat incautiously and interchangeably: school shooting, mass shooting, and mass school shooting. Uvalde was a mass school shooting; the 26 previous tragedies at schools this year were not.
---
Many of the 26 previous shootings involved disputes between students in parking lots, or after athletic events, and all of them resulted in one or zero deaths. These deaths are still incredibly tragic, of course. But they are fundamentally unlike what happened in Uvalde.
Uvalde is a mass school shooting. This is defined in different ways too: an incident in which at least four people (some counters make it three) are shot and/or killed. The Gun Violence Archive counts incidents in which at least four people were shot. Under this definition, many incidents of street crime and domestic violence count as mass shootings, even if no deaths result. A stricter tally of mass school shootings, conductedby criminologists for Scientific American, only includes incidents where the shootings resulted in at least four deaths. Using their criteria, the number of mass school shootings in the U.S. since the year 1966 is 13. These crimes claimed the lives of 146 people in total.



There Have Been 13 Mass School Shootings Since 1966, Not 27 This Year

A total of 146 people in 56 years....

Dear kill 200 people every freaking year....

Ladders kill 350 people every single year.........

Shows your lack of empathy comparing dear to children killed.

 

[Coyote]

1) Suicides are not a gun issue.......you need to explain South Korea, Japan, and China, they have higher level of suicide than we do yet extreme gun control laws.....then you have to explain the Western countries with extreme gun control that also have higher suicide rates than we do...

STAT	Canada	United States
Ages 15-24	15 per 100,000 people Ranked 4th. 9% more than United States	13.7 per 100,000 people Ranked 7th.
Ages 25-34	18 per 100,000 people Ranked 8th. 18% more than United States	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th.
Ages 35-44	19.2 per 100,000 people Ranked 8th. 25% more than United States	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 12th.
Ages 45-54	18.5 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th. 29% more than United States	14.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 13th.
Ages 55-64	15.1 per 100,000 people Ranked 11th. 14% more than United States	13.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 13th.
Ages 65-74	12.1 per 100,000 people Ranked 14th.	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 11th. 26% more than Canada
Ages above 75	12.2 per 100,000 people Ranked 15th.	22 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th. 80% more than Canada

SOURCES: GECD Society at a Glance 2001, Statistical Annex Table D3

Canada vs United States: Crime > Suicide rates Facts and Stats
Methods in japan..

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jea/14/6/14_6_187/_pdf

Suicide by gun is the most common here and by far the most successful method. The decision to finally act is usually impulse driven and with a gun irreversible. It’s an American problem which could be reduced with a waiting period allowing a person to reconsider and get help.

 

[Coyote]

And what Coyote doesn't want you to know?

American gun owners use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings....According to the Centers for Disease Control.

The “good guy” with a gun is exceedingly rare.

Also, the other countries in Europe....

All the gun murder in the entire 246 year history of the U.S. is less than 6 years of government murder in Europe.....and yet the Europeans and their associated western countries think they have a superior system than we do....

Completely irrelevant. We are talking about crime in the current time period. Try to address THAT.

How do they figure that?

Our 2nd Amendment is primarily a Right because of the fear of a violent, tyrannical government. Throughout history, government has been the worst murderer ....... all around the world without exception......

Irrelevant (and inaccurate)…there is also the first clause of the amendment to consider but that be a whole nother topic, not this one.

Yet....our European posters and their western associates in Canada, New Zealand, Australia.....think that our gun Rights are more of an issue...

Rates of rates of gun violence indicate they are right.

Again in 246 years of gun murder in the U.S..... if you average 10,000 gun murders a year, with the vast majority of victims not innocent civilians, but violent criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle....

2,460,000

Europe, between 1939-1946, really beginning in the early 1930s......

15 million murdered.


Not criminals, but innocent men, women and children, murdered by their governments cooperating with the German socialists.

Apples and oranges.

This information, this historical fact, makes no difference to the anti-gunners on various discussion forums.....they seem to think that this was a fluke.....15 million murdered people.....it does boggle the mind that modern nation states could have done this ...but they did.

Again, apples and oranges.

We are not talking about Medieval warlords.....Mongol hordes, Samurai warriors, Zulu kings....we are talking the modern nation states of 1930s Europe, with modern universities, democratic institutions, the rule of law, modern philosophical schools....religious institutions.....

and yet they still murdered innocent men, women and children. They rounded them up......put them on trains, marched them into forests....and murdered them. They were not criminals...they were not monsters. They were normal people....fathers, mothers, children. And their governments rounded them up and murdered them.

And these anti-gunners feel like they have the moral high ground when it comes to the gun control debate.

Are they delusional, dumb, or .......what?

None of that has anything to do with rates of violent crime, gun violence or the use of guns to prevent violence.

3) continued....

No, states with higher gun ownership don't have more gun murders

That looks a lot like a shotgun blast, because at least in 2014, the statistical case that high state gun ownership translates to more gun homicides was non-existent. This is what happens when you just look at the relevant numbers instead of cherrypicking whatever numbers tell the story you want. There's no significant statistical correlation here, whether or not you choose to include D.C. (the outlier, way up above the others). And in fact, when you just look at last year's gun homicide rate by state (calculated from FBI and Census data), you see that many of the states that they claim have low "gun death" rates actually have comparatively high rates of gun murders. New Jersey, for example, had a much higher gun murder rate than Idaho and Vermont.

So now you see why Vox, Mother Jones and others deliberately confuse the issue of gun violence by including gun deaths that don't involve violence: because their cherrypicking makes it seem like people in states with high gun ownership are more likely to shoot other people, when in fact it just isn't so. Perhaps there's another argument to be had about suicide, but it's a very different sort of debate. When most people think about gun control, they're worried about whether it can help stop them from being shot, not about whether it will prevent them from having a gun in case they become incredibly depressed and decide to end it all.


Obama Claims Other Countries With No Guns Safer; Here's Truth

The National Journal disproportionately excluded low-crime, pro-gun states such as Vermont, South Dakota, and Maine from its chart of homicide rates precisely because their homicide rate was low. These states have few gun laws (Vermont has the least of any state) and very low homicide rates. If you disproportionately exclude unregulated states that are safest from the calculation of which states have the lowest homicide rates, that will create the false impression that states with the most gun laws have the fewest gun deaths.

These “pro-gun” states have low homicide rates (for example, Vermont had the third lowest homicide rate in 2013, the lowest gun murder rate in 2010, and the second-lowest gun murder rate in 2007-2010. South Dakota had the fourth-lowest gun-homicide rate in 2007-2010).
But in its discussions of “Concealed Carry” and “Background Checks,” the National Journal deletes these states from its charts comparing pro-gun and anti-gun states by “Gun-related homicides per 100,000 people, by state (2013).” It deletes Vermont, South Dakota, Maine, and 8 other states (6 of which have few gun regulations) from each chart, claiming that these states had “too few homicides to calculate a reliable rate.” 9 of the 11 states excluded broadly allow concealed carry and do not impose additional background-check requirements beyond those contained in federal law. But the National Journal deliberately excluded those states, writing, “In 2013, Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming had too few homicides to calculate a reliable rate.”

************

It is truly bizarre to exclude the states with the fewest gun deaths from an article about what states have “the fewest gun deaths.” This is an egregious act of cherry-picking.
But that was apparently how the National Journal managed to claim that “the states that impose the most restrictions on gun users also have the lowest rates of gun-related deaths, while states with fewer regulations typically have a much higher death rate from guns.” (In 2013, the state with the nation’s lowest murder rate and lowest rate of gun-related homicides was Iowa, which is middling in terms of the number of gun laws. In 2007-2010, it ranked fifth-lowest in number of gun-related homicides. It does not have the “most gun laws.” It broadly permits concealed carry but also requires certain background checks. For some reason, the National Journal left Iowa in, while excluding other low-homicide, low-crime states like Vermont that have even fewer gun laws.).




The “pro-gun” states that consistently have higher “gun-related homicide” rates – such as Louisiana and South Carolina — have higher violent crime rates of all kinds, not just homicides or gun-related homicides. So it does not appear to be related to their gun laws. (For example, Louisiana and South Carolina have higher rates of non-gun-related homicide as well).

Other “pro-gun” states that have higher-than-average “gun-related deaths” than average – like Idaho and Wyoming – do not have high homicide rates, but rather higher use of guns in suicide. But suicide is not what people think of when a politician claims that guns kill people. Moreover, using a gun is not the easiest way to commit suicide, and “gun-related” suicides do not necessarily add much to the number of suicides, since in the absence of guns, many people will still commit suicide.

A 2015 opinion piece.

vs.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

 

[Coyote]

2) Our current increase in murder rates are due solely to the policies of the democrat party......in 2015, when the teenager in Ferguson attacked the police officer, the democrat party decided it was time to destroy local police forces....this created an environment where the police stopped doing active police work, retired or quit in massive numbers....and the criminals responded by becoming more aggressive and murderous...

Gun policies and the criminal justice system are primarily state driven. The rise in violent gun deaths also correlates with the intentional loosening of gun restrictions by Republicansand a reckless self serving gun lobby. States with the loosest gun laws have the highest rates of gun deaths.

The democrats, at the same time, decided to push the concept of "DeCarceration," of releasing the most violent and dangerous criminals no matter how often they committed crimes....

Yet the highest rates of gun violence are in Republican run states.

That is why our gun murder rates went up.....

They did not go up because normal people own and carry guns.....

How do we know?

27 years of actual experience in the U.S...

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

Guess what happened?

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
======




The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

The graph above is what the data says about gun deaths. Can’t make it any plainer.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.

At the same time Republicans in red states were loosening gun laws. Blue states with big cities like CA and NY have among the lowest rates of gun deaths.

 

[frigidweirdo]

According to Gunfacts.info:

• Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
• Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
• 60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
• Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
• Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

Note: the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. Sometimes the fact that the very presence of an armed person, may prevent what could have been a bloodbath cuz in many cases the would-be shooter wants to shoot people before he himself gets shot. What is far more common is innocent gun owners using or brandishing a weapon and saving lives without any injuries at all except sometimes for the assailant. Most of the time such incidents don't get the press that a shooting does.

In “Defensive Gun Use is More Than Shooting Bad Guys,” James Agresti, founder and president of JustFacts.org, provided overwhelming evidence from multiple sources showing that defensive gun use is more common and effective than anti-gun fanatics like The New York Times suggest or will admit. Agresti says that “people who use a gun for defense rarely harm (much less kill) criminals. This is because criminals often back off when they discover their targets are armed.”

John Lott, author of the book, “More Guns, Less Crime,” is president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, another outstanding source for info on this subject. He writes:

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...

fee.org

Thing is, these are ESTIMATES.

If we look at the reality, the REAL STATISTICS, what do we see?

United States Crime Rates 1960 t0 2019

United States crime statistics, United States , United States rape, United States murder, United States property crime, United States crime index, United States violent crime, violent crime in State, United States burglary, United States vehicle theft, United States larceny, United States...

www.disastercenter.com

Murder rate at 5.0 (or 6.3) per 100,000 people.
for the UK it's at 1.2

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Other crimes are hard to compare with other countries because different countries record crimes differently, the US only records a few things as "violent crimes" whereas the UK records a lot more, however:

List of United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gun Ownership by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

Lots of high crime rates in red states, in places with lots of guns.

Alaska has one of the highest rape rates (2nd) (rape is a difficult one though) and high gun rates, aggravated assault (9th), burglary it's 33rd out of 100, surely those guns would be stopping this crime.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Tell this to the families whose children were murdered in classrooms in all of the Several States since Columbine in 1999.

Still selling those dead kids, eh?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Facts for thought.

In 2020
45,222 Americans died from gun violence.
54% suicide
43% murder

M'kay.
So?