Gun ownership rights are under attack.

[52ndStreet]

I am begining to see an ever increasing attack on American gun ownership rights.
We can see that the assault weapons ban is the first major attack that is being perpertrated by the elements of the liberal left in America.

What are gun owners doing to combat this attack on a basic American right.?!

 

[Sodafin]

I am begining to see an ever increasing attack on American gun ownership rights.
We can see that the assault weapons ban is the first major attack that is being perpertrated by the elements of the liberal left in America.

What are gun owners doing to combat this attack on a basic American right.?!

Excellent, I am delighted to see this.

Perhaps we will see more respect for the civil rights of the victims of gun violence, and a little less whining from the kind of people who think you need a 9 mm Uzi for duck hunting.

 

[The Rabbi]

I am begining to see an ever increasing attack on American gun ownership rights.
We can see that the assault weapons ban is the first major attack that is being perpertrated by the elements of the liberal left in America.

What are gun owners doing to combat this attack on a basic American right.?!

Excellent, I am delighted to see this.

Perhaps we will see more respect for the civil rights of the victims of gun violence, and a little less whining from the kind of people who think you need a 9 mm Uzi for duck hunting.

So you think curtailing the civil rights of law abiding citizens is somehow worthwhile? Noted.
And fwiw, I don't plan on duck hunting with my Uzi.

 

[Sarah G]

I am begining to see an ever increasing attack on American gun ownership rights.
We can see that the assault weapons ban is the first major attack that is being perpertrated by the elements of the liberal left in America.

What are gun owners doing to combat this attack on a basic American right.?!

I've seen three threads so far about guns. Where are you all getting your talking points from this morning?

 

[Sodafin]

So you think curtailing the civil rights of law abiding citizens is somehow worthwhile? Noted.

No, not at all - you completely misinterpreted my post.

My point is about safeguarding and protecting the civil rights on normal Americans.

For instance - the right to go to school in safety. The right to go to work in safety. The right to walk down the street in safety.

Those are rights worth protecting, no?

 

[The Rabbi]

So you think curtailing the civil rights of law abiding citizens is somehow worthwhile? Noted.

No, not at all - you completely misinterpreted my post.

My point is about safeguarding and protecting the civil rights on normal Americans.

For instance - the right to go to school in safety. The right to go to work in safety. The right to walk down the street in safety.

Those are rights worth protecting, no?

Absolutely. And since you cannot restrict criminals' possession of guns then the obvious solution is to allow more guns among honest citizens.
This was the theme of John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime.

 

[Sodafin]

So if we can not stop criminals using heroin, we should make everyone take heroin.

That's just silly.

What we see most developed countries doing is to reduce the amount of gun violence by reducing the number of handguns and automatic weapons.

It works, can be proven to work, and the only civil rights compromised are those of criminals.

 

[52ndStreet]

So if we can not stop criminals using heroin, we should make everyone take heroin.

That's just silly.

What we see most developed countries doing is to reduce the amount of gun violence by reducing the number of handguns and automatic weapons.

It works, can be proven to work, and the only civil rights compromised are those of criminals.

Hitler banned all guns, and then started his extermination campaign against the Jews, they
could not defend themselves because the German Government banned Guns.Does this all sound familiar?.
Guns prevent social and governmental Tyranny.

 

[Sodafin]

52nd street -

And yet we can look at any of a hundred acts of genocide that have taken place in extremely highly armed societies - Cambodia, Rwanda, even the Cultural Revolution all took place in societies where people had a lot of weapons in their homes. Massacres were conducted by Rios Montte, Cristiani, Pinochet...and yet all countries were well armed.

In no case that I am aware of has gun ownership prevented the use of force by a government against its own people.

By all means prove me wrong - name one.

 

[dilloduck]

52nd street -

And yet we can look at any of a hundred acts of genocide that have taken place in extremely highly armed societies - Cambodia, Rwanda, even the Cultural Revolution all took place in societies where people had a lot of weapons in their homes. Massacres were conducted by Rios Montte, Cristiani, Pinochet...and yet all countries were well armed.

In no case that I am aware of has gun ownership prevented the use of force by a government against its own people.

By all means prove me wrong - name one.

America---we've kept the feds at bay for decades.

 

[52ndStreet]

52nd street -

And yet we can look at any of a hundred acts of genocide that have taken place in extremely highly armed societies - Cambodia, Rwanda, even the Cultural Revolution all took place in societies where people had a lot of weapons in their homes. Massacres were conducted by Rios Montte, Cristiani, Pinochet...and yet all countries were well armed.

In no case that I am aware of has gun ownership prevented the use of force by a government against its own people.

By all means prove me wrong - name one.

Irregardless of the global atrocities you mention, you should not, and can not ban specific
weapons from the American citizenry.Its unconstitutional.
"A well armed millitia rights must not be infringed upon" this is in the Constitution of the United States sir, stop trying to change Americas Constitution.!!

 

[Sodafin]

52nd -

And I doubt anyone would really call for such a ban, either. Certainly I couldn't support that.

What I think a more sensible move would be is to ban weapons like assault rifles and high calibre handguns. They just have no place in a safe society.

Put it this way -

Last year 18 people died on gun shot wounds in Austria. More than 10,000 died in the US - so which country has more effective laws?

 

[The Rabbi]

So if we can not stop criminals using heroin, we should make everyone take heroin.

That's just silly.

What we see most developed countries doing is to reduce the amount of gun violence by reducing the number of handguns and automatic weapons.

It works, can be proven to work, and the only civil rights compromised are those of criminals.

No, silly is your comparison. No one is talking about "making" anyone do anything. We are talking about allowing them to exercise their rights.
Germany has the toughest gun laws around. And they just had a teenager commit a bunch of murders with a handgun. England has tough gun laws, and the crime rate there is skyrocketing.
Gun control is about control, not about guns.

But it is funny seeing someone who still believes in gun control. The liberals in the U.S. don't even buy that anymore, that's how thoroughly debunked the subject is here.

 

[The Rabbi]

52nd -

And I doubt anyone would really call for such a ban, either. Certainly I couldn't support that.

What I think a more sensible move would be is to ban weapons like assault rifles and high calibre handguns. They just have no place in a safe society.

Put it this way -

Last year 18 people died on gun shot wounds in Austria. More than 10,000 died in the US - so which country has more effective laws?

What is an "assault rifle" or "high calibre weapon"??

 

[Sodafin]

No one is talking about "making" anyone do anything. We are talking about allowing them to exercise their rights.
Germany has the toughest gun laws around. And they just had a teenager commit a bunch of murders with a handgun. England has tough gun laws, and the crime rate there is skyrocketing.
Gun control is about control, not about guns.

Hilarious stuff!

Firstly - 194 people died of gun violence in Germany last year. More than 10,000 in the US.

So who has better laws?

Secondly, you are NOT about rights. Every time a teenager takes a gun to school or a worker takes a gun to work or a man leaves a gun laying around his home - they are actively denying the rights of the people around them - the people who want to be safe.

 

[The Rabbi]

No one is talking about "making" anyone do anything. We are talking about allowing them to exercise their rights.
Germany has the toughest gun laws around. And they just had a teenager commit a bunch of murders with a handgun. England has tough gun laws, and the crime rate there is skyrocketing.
Gun control is about control, not about guns.

Hilarious stuff!

Firstly - 194 people died of gun violence in Germany last year. More than 10,000 in the US.

So who has better laws?

Secondly, you are NOT about rights. Every time a teenager takes a gun to school or a worker takes a gun to work or a man leaves a gun laying around his home - they are actively denying the rights of the people around them - the people who want to be safe.

You are honestly comparing Germany to the US? The two countries have different cultures, different geography, different populations, different laws.
There is no comparison. The U.S. will not become Germany, nor vice versa.
How is a worker who takes a gun to work "denying the rights of those around him"?? He is exercising his own rights.

 

[Sodafin]

Actually, no - YOU raised the issue of Germany, here:

Germany has the toughest gun laws around. And they just had a teenager commit a bunch of murders with a handgun.

And I pointed out that 194 people died on gun shot wounds in Germany last year.

In the US, more than 10,000 died.

I'd call that a fairly open and shut case of Germany having more effective gun laws, wouldn't you?

 

[The Rabbi]

Actually, no - YOU raised the issue of Germany, here:

Germany has the toughest gun laws around. And they just had a teenager commit a bunch of murders with a handgun.

And I pointed out that 194 people died on gun shot wounds in Germany last year.

In the US, more than 10,000 died.

I'd call that a fairly open and shut case of Germany having more effective gun laws, wouldn't you?

No,not at all. The differences can be explained in all kinds of ways, starting with a different culture.
I am not sure where the 10,000 figure comes from btw.
South Africa has very tough gun control laws and I wouldn't want to look at the statistics for gun crimes there.

 

[Sodafin]

Rabbi -

You may have heard this example used before - but I'd be happy to demonstrate again that if we take the Top 20 western nations in terms of gun ownership, and then the Top 20 western nations in terms of deaths by gun shot wound, they correlate in 18 or 19 out of 20 positions.

That is beyond reasonable doubt, obviously.

Forget ranting about what various NRA blogs have 'debunked' - these are fairly clear and simple facts that you can confirm yourself with 5 minutes online.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

You may have heard this example used before - but I'd be happy to demonstrate again that if we take the Top 20 western nations in terms of gun ownership, and then the Top 20 western nations in terms of deaths by gun shot wound, they correlate in 18 or 19 out of 20 positions.

That is beyond reasonable doubt, obviously.

Forget ranting about what various NRA blogs have 'debunked' - these are fairly clear and simple facts that you can confirm yourself with 5 minutes online.

You can compare apples to oranges all you want. But Western nations all have different cultures from the U.S.
South Africa has very strict gun control and one of the highest murder rates in the world.
Comparing different state laws within the U.S. is a better measure. And that shows the states with the strictest laws also have the highest rates of crime, and those with the least strict laws the lowest. And those that have relaxed their laws to have experienced lower rates.
All these are facts, far more cogent than anything you've mentioned so far.