CDZ Gun deaths in all states per capita

[DudleySmith]

If a background check didn't stop all these recent mass shooters how in the hell is a stupid gun registration going to stop them?

The Bill of Rights doesn't say anything about having to registered to be entitled to the rights. It also doesn't say that you have to get government permission (like a background check) before being allowed to have the right.

You have read the Bill of Rights, haven't you? Do you understand what a Bill of Rights is?

The reason the original intent argument fails is that many states did indeed regulate firearms and who and what kind of firearms they could own; most of them were based on race then, but the fact is it was considered legal for states to do so. They also had them in colonial times as well, which makes some of the matters a little messy. Cramer himself is a self-proclaimed libertarian, so he also documents when and why may of the old statutes were struck down/

For those not already familiar with Cramer he has an excellent website and archive of historical sources.

Primary Historical Sources

www.claytoncramer.com

He has also written a pile of articles on gun control for magazinez like Shotguns News and others.

Personally I think it's just stupid to believe the govt. can round up hundreds of millions firearms at all, so the entire point is moot, whether laws get passed or not. Certainly leaving only gangsters with arsenals is a very stupid idea; they aren't going to turn theirs in.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually it appears gun crime decreased during the Assault Weapon ban around 1994 and remained low until it expired.

(The Assault Weapon Ban Saved Lives | Stanford Law School)


So it seems more directly related to the assault weapons ban. That confuses me somewhat because I've been under the impression, mainly from 2A advocates that "assault weapons" are little more than tricked-out semi-auto hunting rifles with a lot more bells and whistles to make the LOOK ominous. So it doesn't make a lot of sense if similar firepower was always available but for whatever reason there was a drop off during the ban and it ended when the ban expired.

Laws don't mean squat to crazies and hoodlums, so obviously other factors are at work here. Gun sales have skyrocketed since the 1980's, yet the crimes haven't gone up at the same rates as sales. Sales numbered over 20 million last year, a 40% increase over 2019; gun crime just continued its steady rise from the Biden election win.

 

[DudleySmith]

What are the fentanyl deaths by state?

Good question. The deviants and gimps want to legalize that stuff.

 

[Missourian]

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/FT_22.01.26_GunDeaths_3.png

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

While the number of gun deaths in the U.S. fell for the second consecutive year in 2023, it remained among the highest annual totals on record.

www.pewresearch.org

Just the facts:

• Blue States
• Purple States
• Red States

Show me homicides....not "gun deaths".

 

[2aguy]

And to protect us from others abusing those rights. The 1st amendment is limited by libel and slander laws.

The 2nd Amendment is limited by not able to commit crime laws…..

 

[2aguy]

Once again, name-calling isn’t appropriate here even if you believe it’s an accurate description.

Whispch is why, ( fill in the blank ), I went back and took ou t the remark and even apologized when I realized it was the CDZ

 

[2aguy]

Dead is dead. Either you care about a person's life or you don't. Suicide attempts are often a cry for help and if they are unsuccessful that help may be found. Guns make it too easy and effective. IMHO

Again…..explain how it is that Japan, South Korea and China have higher rates of suicide success without access to guns…

 

[Flash]

The reason the original intent argument fails is that many states did indeed regulate firearms and who and what kind of firearms they could own; most of them were based on race then, but the fact is it was considered legal for states to do so. They also had them in colonial times as well, which makes some of the matters a little messy. Cramer himself is a self-proclaimed libertarian, so he also documents when and why may of the old statutes were struck down/

For those not already familiar with Cramer he has an excellent website and archive of historical sources.

Primary Historical Sources

www.claytoncramer.com

He has also written a pile of articles on gun control for magazinez like Shotguns News and others.

Personally I think it's just stupid to believe the govt. can round up hundreds of millions firearms at all, so the entire point is moot, whether laws get passed or not. Certainly leaving only gangsters with arsenals is a very stupid idea; they aren't going to turn theirs in.

The states and locals have got away with infringing upon the Constitutional right to keep and bare arms for a very convoluted reason. With a few exceptions most RTKBA cases never make it to the Supreme Court for a judgement on the Constitutionality. Miller, Heller, McDonald being some of the few that did.

The reason is that most cases involving firearms are connected to a crime. In many cases the right to keep and bare arms infringement itself takes a back seat to the actual crime of murder, robbery or whatever. Standing to challenge the Constitutionality is bartered away in plea deals and almost never makes it to an appellate court.

Hopefully this New York case that the Supremes reviewed will put an end to the States and Locals getting away with infringing upon the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms with oppressive gun control laws like assualt weapon and magazine bans. Hopefully they will rule that from now on Strict Scrutiny must be applied to any gun control law instead of the lesser Immediate and Rational Basis Scrutiny.

 

[2aguy]

I'm not advocating your RKBA be taken away or severely limited. Which of the laws being discussed would do that? If you don't care about depressed/mentally ill people, that is your prerogative.

Banning AR-15 Rifles and 10 round magazines….the last one is being put forward by pelosi.

Biden also gave away their desire to ban 9mm handguns

 

[2aguy]

I don't believe the facts back up your premise:

Guns are used in just 6 percent of all suicide attempts, but are responsible for 54 percent of successful suicide attempts. This makes a grim sort of sense: When you shoot a gun into your temple, it does what it’s intended to. That’s why 85 percent of suicide attempts with a firearm are lethal. Just 3 percent of suicide attempts by drug overdose are fatal.​

Again….explain the higher success rates of suicide in Japan….

 

[XponentialChaos]

Whispch is why, ( fill in the blank ), I went back and took ou t the remark and even apologized when I realized it was the CDZ

You mean before you tried to justify your name-calling because it’s an “accurate description“ according to you?

 

[Captain Caveman]

From what I've heard, there is no magic bullet (get it?) but a mesh of gun control measures like they have in CA does work. Trivia note, I believe it was Ronald Reagan who signed the first gun control law into effect.

The UK suffered 30 suicides by gun in 2020. On average in total, the UK suffers 177 deaths per year by firearms.

If you take that per capita between the US and UK, gun laws do work, but give it several decades to bed in.

 

[alang1216]

According to the Supreme Court I don't have to be in any organized militia to keep and bear arms because they said very clearly it is an individual right, the same as the right of free speech and the right of religion. It is in the Heller judgement pertaining to DC and reaarimed in the McDonald case pertaining to the states. Go look it up.

Of course that has always been a bogus argument by the Left.

The "militia" suppose to be a non government sponsored entity. Armed citizens arising to do their duty for the security of a free state.

If the friggin government takes away the arms from the citizens then they can't be "well regulated" and have the arms necessary to do the job, can they?

Although the Constitution has not changed the SCOTUS interpretation of it has. Political decisions like this are likely to be overturned in the future. re: Roe vs Wade

 

[alang1216]

Who do you think?

If I knew I wouldn't have to ask. Seems like your answer was: "I don't know either".

 

[alang1216]

Again…..explain how it is that Japan, South Korea and China have higher rates of suicide success without access to guns…

Happy to admit I don't know the answer. Different cultures would be one guess.

 

[alang1216]

Banning AR-15 Rifles and 10 round magazines….the last one is being put forward by pelosi.

Has she offered any evidence this would have an effect?

Biden also gave away their desire to ban 9mm handguns

That sounds like a negotiation position, not a serious desire.

 

[Flash]

Although the Constitution has not changed the SCOTUS interpretation of it has. Political decisions like this are likely to be overturned in the future. re: Roe vs Wade

The case that is going to change gun laws in the US for the better is this New York case the Court is reviewing now. They wouldn't have taken it if they weren't going to rule on oppressive state and local gun restrictions. The statements made by the Justices in the oral arguments certainly indicated the Court was leaning that way.

You Moon Bats will cry over Roe v Wade being overturned and you will will cry over this decision.

I love Liberal tears. it makes good lubricant for my AR-15s.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Show me homicides....not "gun deaths".

There have been at least 554 school shooting victims in the US since the Columbine High School massacre: report

Overall, an estimated 311,000 children have been exposed to gun violence in their schools since 1999, The Washington Post reported.

www.insider.com

At least 554 children, educators, and school staff have been killed or injured in US school shootings since the 1999 Columbine High massacre, The Washington Post reported.
According to The Post, the shootings left 185 people dead and another 369 injured.
One of the deadliest attacks happened on Tuesday — an elementary shooting in Uvalde, Texas. At least 19 children and two adults had died from the assault, as of Tuesday night.
The Post wrote that 331 schools have suffered from such attacks since the mass shooting at Columbine High School in 1999 when two students killed 13 people and injured 20 others.
The frequency of shootings has also surged recently, with 34 incidents in 2021 — the highest in any year since 1999, The Post reported.
Overall, an estimated 311,000 schoolchildren in the US have been affected by shootings or were exposed to gun violence at their school since the 1999 Columbine shooting, per The Post.
The outlet aggregated these numbers by analyzing news reports, open-source databases, law enforcement reports, and calls to schools and police departments, it said.
Its findings only count gunfire incidents that happened on campus immediately before, during, or just after classes, and do not include shootings at colleges or universities. It also excluded shootings after hours or accidental discharges where no one was hurt.

You asked, and I responded. Gun shots of those who did not die have life long scars, even those who did not experience a gun shot, but heard the sound of gun fire, and the loud cries of those who died or were wounded.

Not only at the hundreds of schools which experienced such a horrendous event, but ever child who will attend school and be part of drills and every parent to wonder, what if!

Consider reader, what if the Republican Party continues to support the gun industry as it exists today?

Will arming more people change the number of shootings on campuses all across are nation?

Will more children live a life of fear every time a drill reminds them of what if?

Will every psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker or school counselor be able to diagnose a killer before he (mostly he) kills innocent children or people?

Will these four words ["shall not be infringed"] be on grave markers for decades to come?

Yes readers, there are more to come. More deaths, more grief and more excuses to support more guns! More guns to be purchased, stolen or given to a killer who has not been diagnosed as a danger to themselves or others and/or never been arrested and convicted of any crime.

Most agencies that hire armed LE officers, deputies or agents have before hiring have an extensive background check. Then if they pass, they will serve in a probationary year to see if they have the right stuff.

To be continued.

 

[2aguy]

Actually it appears gun crime decreased during the Assault Weapon ban around 1994 and remained low until it expired.

(The Assault Weapon Ban Saved Lives | Stanford Law School)


So it seems more directly related to the assault weapons ban. That confuses me somewhat because I've been under the impression, mainly from 2A advocates that "assault weapons" are little more than tricked-out semi-auto hunting rifles with a lot more bells and whistles to make the LOOK ominous. So it doesn't make a lot of sense if similar firepower was always available but for whatever reason there was a drop off during the ban and it ended when the ban expired.

No.....that is wrong......a detailed report looked at the issue.....they defined "assault Rifles," in a way that included tech 9 auto pistols....something to consider...criminals did not use AR-15s or AK-47s variants in large numbers before, during or after the ban...

The Study from 2004...

• The decline in the use of AWs has been due primarily to a reduction in the use of assault pistols (APs), which are used in crime more commonly than assault rifles (ARs). There has not been a clear decline in the use of ARs, though assessments are complicated by the rarity of crimes with these weapons and by substitution of post-ban rifles that are very similar to the banned AR models.
  
  
  
  1. It is Premature to Make Definitive Assessments of the Ban’s Impact on Gun Crime
  2. • Because the ban has not yet reduced the use of LCMs in crime, we cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence. However, the ban’s exemption of millions of pre-ban AWs and LCMs ensured that the effects
     
     
     • Should it be renewed, the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. AWs were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban. LCMs are involved in a more substantial share of gun crimes, but it is not clear how often the outcomes of gun attacks depend on the ability of offenders to fire more than ten shots (the current magazine capacity limit) without reloading.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf




when one takes into account data from the years 1994 to 2003 — when the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Act was effective.

During this period, the National Institute of Justice, along with University of Pennsylvania criminologist Dan Woods, found that the United States “cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence … there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence.”


John Lott of The Wall Street Journal, who mentions the study in his 2013 piece on crime, alludes to a 5.7 per 100,000 murder rate prior to the ban expiring — in conjunction with the fact that the murder rate fell to 4.7 per 100,000, in 2011.


Similarly, a 2018 study from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found zero substantiation that “assault weapons bans” will lower “the incidence of fatal mass shootings.”

Most of all, the Bloomberg-funded research “did not find an independent association between assault weapon bans and the incidence of fatal mass shootings after controlling for the effects of bans on large-capacity magazines.”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/8/bidens-nonsensical-position-on-banning-assault-wea/

 

[Captain Caveman]

Although the Constitution has not changed the SCOTUS interpretation of it has. Political decisions like this are likely to be overturned in the future. re: Roe vs Wade

The 2nd Amendment is outdated as well as it's text because it seems to be the most thing argued about in America. If the SCOTUS chop and change their rulings, that's evidence it's badly written.