CDZ Gun deaths in all states per capita

[Dogmaphobe]

zIf they aren’t criminals, or dangerously mentally ill I have no problem with people buying guns.

Why don't you want the board democrats to be able to own guns, too?

 

[sartre play]

Population count must be factored in. more people more problems.

 

[2aguy]

The graph shows a sharp spike in murders under Obama, which is of course to be expected when the Party in power is relying on promoting violence for votes, and shows murder declining under Trump, and then another big spike when Biden runs and the Democrats win the White House, based on promoting violence and hate crimes again.

That would be in 2015....when blm and antifa, with the democrat party, began open warfare against the police, and the democrats began releasing the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again to keep murdering people in black neighborhoods.......

 

[alang1216]

How would registration help?

Criminals don’t register their illegal guns…they are not required to register their guns per the Supreme Court ruling Haynes v United States….

Mass public shooters will register their guns on the way to their mass public shooting…..

So, again, what does registration do…exactly?

As I understand it, most 'illegal' guns were bought legally and changed hands. If a registered gun is found on someone other than the owner that is theft and can be used to put that criminal away for a time. Bonus to the gun owner is that he gets his gun back.

 

[Blues Man]

As I understand it, most 'illegal' guns were bought legally and changed hands. If a registered gun is found on someone other than the owner that is theft and can be used to put that criminal away for a time. Bonus to the gun owner is that he gets his gun back.

We do not need gun registries for that.

If a person reports a gun stolen that is all that is needed.

 

[2aguy]

As I understand it, most 'illegal' guns were bought legally and changed hands. If a registered gun is found on someone other than the owner that is theft and can be used to put that criminal away for a time. Bonus to the gun owner is that he gets his gun back.

No....doesn't work that way....we know this from actual experience in Canada....and how criminals actually operate...

This is why gun registration doesn't actually work...

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.


As to solving crimes....it doesn't...
10 Myths About The Long Gun Registry

Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.
Doubtful. Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered ... the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.


-----

https://www.quora.com/In-countries-...olved-at-least-in-part-by-use-of-the-registry



Tracking physical objects that are easily transferred with a database is non-trivial problem. Guns that are stolen, loaned, or lost disappear from the registry. The data is has to be manually entered and input mistakes will both leak guns and generate false positive results.

Registries don’t solve straw-purchases. If someone goes through all of the steps to register a gun and simply gives it to a criminal that gun becomes unregistered. Assuming the gun is ever recovered you could theoretically try and prosecute the person who transferred the gun to the criminal, but you aren’t solving the crime you were trying to. Remember that people will prostitute themselves or even their children for drugs, so how much deterrence is there in a maybe-get-a-few-years for straw purchasing?

Registries are expensive. Canada’s registry was pitched as costing the taxpayer $2 million and the rest of the costs were to be payed for with registration fees. It was subject to massive cost overruns that were not being met by registrations fees. When the program was audited in 2002 the program was expected to cost over $1 billion and that the fee revenue was only expected to be $140 million.

No gun recovered. If no gun was recovered at the scene of the crime then your registry isn’t even theoretically helping, let alone providing a practical tool. You need a world where criminals meticulously register their guns and leave them at the crime scene for a registry to start to become useful.

Say I have a registered gun, and a known associate of mine was shot and killed. Ballistics is able to determine that my known associate was killed with the same make and model as the gun I registered. A registry doesn’t prove that my gun was used, or that I was the one doing the shooting. I was a suspect as soon as we said “known associate” and the police will then being looking for motive and checking for my alibi.
====
In the Pittsburgh Tribune Review: Pa. gun registry waste of money, resources - Crime Prevention Research Center

Gun-control advocates have long claimed that a comprehensive registry would be an effective safety tool. Their reasoning is straightforward: If a gun has been left at a crime scene, the registry will link the crime gun back to the criminal.

Nice logic, but reality has never worked that way. Crime guns are rarely left at crime scenes. The few that are have been unregistered — criminals are not stupid enough to leave behind a gun that’s registered to them. When a gun is left at the scene, it is usually because the criminal has been seriously injured or killed. These crimes would have been solved even without registration.

Registration hasn’t worked in Pennsylvania or other places. During a 2001 lawsuit, the Pennsylvania State Police could not identify a specific crime that had been solved through the registration system from 1901 to 2001, though they did claim that it had “assisted” in a total of four cases but they could provide no details.

During a 2013 deposition, the Washington, D.C., police chief said that she could not “recall any specific instance where registration records were used to determine who committed a crime.”

When I testified before the Hawaii State Senate in 2000, the Honolulu chief of police also stated that he couldn’t find any crimes that had been solved due to registration and licensing. The chief also said that his officers devoted about 50,000 hours each year to registering and licensing guns. This time is being taken away from traditional, time-tested law enforcement activities.

Of course, many are concerned that registration lists will eventually be used to confiscate people’s guns. Given that such lists have been used to force people to turn in guns in California, Connecticut, New York and Chicago, these fears aren’t entirely unjustified.

Instead of wasting money and precious police time on a gun registry that won’t solve crime, Pennsylvania should get rid of the program that we already have and spend our resources on programs that matter. Traditional policing works, and we should all be concerned that this bill will keep even more officers from important duties.


Bullet tracking..

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years
Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns was a failure.

Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to authorities. The idea was to build a database of "ballistic fingerprints" to help solve future crimes.

But the system — plagued by technological problems — never solved a single case. Now the hundreds of thousands of accumulated casings could be sold for scrap.

"Obviously, I'm disappointed," said former Gov. Parris N. Glendening, a Democrat whose administration pushed for the database to fulfill a campaign promise. "It's a little unfortunate, in that logic and common sense suggest that it would be a good crime-fighting tool."

The database "was a waste," said Frank Sloane, owner of Pasadena Gun & Pawn in Anne Arundel County. "There's things that they could have done that would have made sense. This didn't make any sense."

 

[2aguy]

As I understand it, most 'illegal' guns were bought legally and changed hands. If a registered gun is found on someone other than the owner that is theft and can be used to put that criminal away for a time. Bonus to the gun owner is that he gets his gun back.

And another problem here in the states.....democrat party prosecutors do not actively pursure or punish straw gun buyers........and when they catch a criminal with an illegal gun, that is the first charge they plea bargain away......

If they started to punish straw buyers, and if they used the 10 year sentences that some states have for felons in possession of illegal guns......then you would see gun crime going back down again the way it was going down prior to 2015....

For example......

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.
------------
Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

Can you explain why the democrats would do this?

And another....

So why are Washington Democrats offering up a bill in the state legislature to lower the penalties for drive-by shootings?

Well, there’s woke and then there’s just plain stupid. Washington state Democrats are vying to become the best stupid they can be, bless ’em.

Currently, Washington law holds that a drive-by shooter should get an aggravated enhancement if he is arrested and prosecuted—and that’s a big if. Such an enhancement could land a drive-by murderer a life prison sentence.

But under a bill proposed for the upcoming Washington state legislature by white, woke ex-con state Rep. Tarra Simmons and her co-sponsor David Hackney, the reduction in penalties is a move toward “racial equity.” That’s right, drive-by shooting prosecutorial outcomes are racist. Never mind all the black and brown people who are the disproportionate victims of drive-by shootings.

Washington State Democrats Want Decreased Penalties for Drive-By Shooters Because... Aw, You Guessed

Can you explain why democrats would do this?

 

[alang1216]

If a background check didn't stop all these recent mass shooters how in the hell is a stupid gun registration going to stop them?

There is no one simple answer to a complex question. Too many let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The Bill of Rights doesn't say anything about having to registered to be entitled to the rights. It also doesn't say that you have to get government permission (like a background check) before being allowed to have the right.

You have read the Bill of Rights, haven't you? Do you understand what a Bill of Rights is?

There is no God-given right to bear arms in the Declaration of Independence. Every right in the Constitution is granted by the gov't and every one comes with gov't restrictions.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Hmmmmm..2 mass public shootings in 2020…….6 in 2021…..

out of over 330 million people………

From the OP:

 

[XponentialChaos]

Really? From the actual link….millions and millions of new guns purchased in the last few years……..over 20 million Americans can now carry guns in public for self defense

What happened to the gun murder rate?



The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.

How do you explain this?

Simple. Look at the graph.

We peaked in 1974. Then it declined. And now we're heading in the wrong direction again.

Why are murder rates increasing now?

 

[2aguy]

From the OP:

View attachment 653905

active shooter is different, but includes mass public shootings....

Mixing definitions is the only way you asshats can push your gun grabbing agenda...



Active shooter incidents are gangs shooting at gang member house parties...

A mass public shooter, as I have shown you over and over again, is a shooting by single or multiple shooters in a public place and the sole purpose is to murder innocent people.....gang members who hit other people at the party are not targeting those people, they are shooting at other gang members...

If you are not in a gang, don't have family or friends in a gang, don't live in the tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities where gangs control the neighborhood....you don't have to worry about getting shot in gang shootings...


This is why you have to mix the different types of crime together....actual mass public shootings, the kind that your democrat party press hypes 24/7 when they happen, in order to scare uninformed Americans...happened 6 times in 2021.....2 times in 2020, 10 times in 2019.....

You can't scare people with numbers that low...so you falsely mix up different crimes......

 

[Rye Catcher]

And another problem here in the states.....democrat party prosecutors do not actively pursure or punish straw gun buyers........and when they catch a criminal with an illegal gun, that is the first charge they plea bargain away......

If they started to punish straw buyers, and if they used the 10 year sentences that some states have for felons in possession of illegal guns......then you would see gun crime going back down again the way it was going down prior to 2015....

For example......

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.
------------
Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

Can you explain why the democrats would do this?

And another....

So why are Washington Democrats offering up a bill in the state legislature to lower the penalties for drive-by shootings?

Well, there’s woke and then there’s just plain stupid. Washington state Democrats are vying to become the best stupid they can be, bless ’em.

Currently, Washington law holds that a drive-by shooter should get an aggravated enhancement if he is arrested and prosecuted—and that’s a big if. Such an enhancement could land a drive-by murderer a life prison sentence.

But under a bill proposed for the upcoming Washington state legislature by white, woke ex-con state Rep. Tarra Simmons and her co-sponsor David Hackney, the reduction in penalties is a move toward “racial equity.” That’s right, drive-by shooting prosecutorial outcomes are racist. Never mind all the black and brown people who are the disproportionate victims of drive-by shootings.

Washington State Democrats Want Decreased Penalties for Drive-By Shooters Because... Aw, You Guessed

Can you explain why democrats would do this?

Is your vocation the sale of guns and other accoutrements?

 

[2aguy]

Simple. Look at the graph.

View attachment 653906

We peaked in 1974. Then it declined. And now we're heading in the wrong direction again.

Why are murder rates increasing now?

The important part....as Americans have bought millions and millions, and millions of new guns....and now well over 19 million people who can carry guns in public for self defense....

And the gun murder rate is below past highs....

Why is the gun murder rate increasing now?

That's easy...in 2015, after the Gentle Giant attacked the police officer and the democrat party saw an opportunity to exploit it...

The democrat party began an all out war on the police.....including demands to defund the police......so the police stopped pro-active policing...not wanting to risk being fired, sued or sent to prison......so criminals who used to fear being stopped and found with illegal guns...were no longer afraid to carry guns....so when they see a rival gang member, they don't have to go home to get their illegal gun, they have it on them right at the moment...

The democrat party also ramped up their efforts to release the most violent, and dangerous gun offenders over and over again......

Just from Chicago.....pages and pages of felons, released on bail, with multiple past felony convictions......read the list.....and you will see the democrat party is not serious about stopping gun crime...it works for them...

CWB Chicago

CWBChicago is a reader-funded public safety news outlet focusing on crime and criminal court proceedings in Chicago.

cwbchicago.com

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.

 

[2aguy]

Is your vocation the sale of guns and other accoutrements?

Nope......my concern is the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, having been a student of human history and human nature....

Governments murder more people than criminals do...since the beginning of time......and disarming only to give government the only guns is insane...

 

[2aguy]

There is no one simple answer to a complex question. Too many let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


There is no God-given right to bear arms in the Declaration of Independence. Every right in the Constitution is granted by the gov't and every one comes with gov't restrictions.

Nope.....God gave us these Rights....we create governments to protect those Rights...

 

[2aguy]

Is your vocation the sale of guns and other accoutrements?

It isn't even my hobby....

 

[Flash]

There is no one simple answer to a complex question. Too many let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


There is no God-given right to bear arms in the Declaration of Independence. Every right in the Constitution is granted by the gov't and every one comes with gov't restrictions.

I think the phrase used for basic human rights by our Founding fathers was "Inalienable Rights Endowed by the Creator".

I don't need the government telling me how to live my life including what arms I keep and bear. The Founding Fathers agreed and that is why they said that right shall not be infringed upon because it is necessary for the security of a free state.

 

[XponentialChaos]

The important part....as Americans have bought millions and millions, and millions of new guns....and now well over 19 million people who can carry guns in public for self defense....

And the gun murder rate is below past highs....

Why is the gun murder rate increasing now?

That's easy...in 2015, after the Gentle Giant attacked the police officer and the democrat party saw an opportunity to exploit it...

The democrat party began an all out war on the police.....including demands to defund the police......so the police stopped pro-active policing...not wanting to risk being fired, sued or sent to prison......so criminals who used to fear being stopped and found with illegal guns...were no longer afraid to carry guns....so when they see a rival gang member, they don't have to go home to get their illegal gun, they have it on them right at the moment...

The democrat party also ramped up their efforts to release the most violent, and dangerous gun offenders over and over again......

Just from Chicago.....pages and pages of felons, released on bail, with multiple past felony convictions......read the list.....and you will see the democrat party is not serious about stopping gun crime...it works for them...

CWB Chicago

CWBChicago is a reader-funded public safety news outlet focusing on crime and criminal court proceedings in Chicago.

cwbchicago.com

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.

So you admit that gun murder rates are increasing.

 

[alang1216]

Suicide is a choice that everyone has the absolute right to make.

Unless it is a cry for help. I know several examples of such.

 

[XponentialChaos]

active shooter is different, but includes mass public shootings....dipshit....

Let me remind you not to act like a child in the clean debate zone.