Green Jobs in CA!!!

[Navy1960]

The El Monte factory stopped operating just a few weeks ago, but already it feels abandoned, an appropriate setting for a "Terminator" movie.

The dusty clock on the wall is frozen at 7:00. Below it, the deep pits that once held molten steel are now empty, and the parts created there wait in hundreds of boxes to be shipped off across the country or turned into scrap.

Two months ago, more than 300 people were employed at the site making engine parts for trucks and heavy machinery for Gregg Industries, which is owned by Neenah Enterprises Inc. in Wisconsin.

But a settlement with the South Coast Air Quality Management District required Gregg to spend $5 million on factory improvements, so the company decided instead to leave the state. Company spokesman Adan Ortega Jr. said Gregg didn't want to make the payment in the difficult economic climate.
Losses of factory jobs in California blamed on regulation - Los Angeles Times

With the recent passage of the "Energy Bill/cap and trade/..." I thought it worth mentioning based on the number of times in the bill that Mr. Waxman wish this nation to conform to a CA. standard just how those standards help create all those green jobs....

 

[hjmick]

The "California standard" has caused quite a few companies to relocate over the years.

 

[Navy1960]

The "California standard" has caused quite a few companies to relocate over the years.

I'm curious then hj, as I was aware of this as I have many friends in Ca. and was stationed there more than a few times, What does this say, if those same standards are applied nation wide? Where do you suppose those companies would go then?

 

[DiveCon]

The "California standard" has caused quite a few companies to relocate over the years.

I'm curious then hj, as I was aware of this as I have many friends in Ca. and was stationed there more than a few times, What does this say, if those same standards are applied nation wide? Where do you suppose those companies would go then?

Mexico

 

[eots]

The "California standard" has caused quite a few companies to relocate over the years.

I'm curious then hj, as I was aware of this as I have many friends in Ca. and was stationed there more than a few times, What does this say, if those same standards are applied nation wide? Where do you suppose those companies would go then?

Mexico

India

China

 

[editec]

The El Monte factory stopped operating just a few weeks ago, but already it feels abandoned, an appropriate setting for a "Terminator" movie.

The dusty clock on the wall is frozen at 7:00. Below it, the deep pits that once held molten steel are now empty, and the parts created there wait in hundreds of boxes to be shipped off across the country or turned into scrap.

Two months ago, more than 300 people were employed at the site making engine parts for trucks and heavy machinery for Gregg Industries, which is owned by Neenah Enterprises Inc. in Wisconsin.

But a settlement with the South Coast Air Quality Management District required Gregg to spend $5 million on factory improvements, so the company decided instead to leave the state. Company spokesman Adan Ortega Jr. said Gregg didn't want to make the payment in the difficult economic climate.
Losses of factory jobs in California blamed on regulation - Los Angeles Times

With the recent passage of the "Energy Bill/cap and trade/..." I thought it worth mentioning based on the number of times in the bill that Mr. Waxman wish this nation to conform to a CA. standard just how those standards help create all those green jobs....

Perhaps one could rationalize this by claiming that this is just another example of that CREATIVE DESTRUCTION that capitalist are s so fond of telling us is a good thing, eh?

Of course this is, therefore just an example of the CREATIVE DESTRUCTION that comes when society is deciding to alter its modus operandi, much as the market sometimes decides it must.

Having watched Bethlehem Steel go out of business in PA thanks to the creative destruction of market forces (thanks to the society deciding to change it modus operandi to include what we are now calling FREE TRADE) one cannot help but ask oneself if perhaps this whole CREATIVE DESCTRUCTION rationaizing isn't being taken just a tad too seriously.

There seems to be a tremendous emphasis on the destruction process and damned little creative that follows.

 

[Navy1960]

The El Monte factory stopped operating just a few weeks ago, but already it feels abandoned, an appropriate setting for a "Terminator" movie.

The dusty clock on the wall is frozen at 7:00. Below it, the deep pits that once held molten steel are now empty, and the parts created there wait in hundreds of boxes to be shipped off across the country or turned into scrap.

Two months ago, more than 300 people were employed at the site making engine parts for trucks and heavy machinery for Gregg Industries, which is owned by Neenah Enterprises Inc. in Wisconsin.

But a settlement with the South Coast Air Quality Management District required Gregg to spend $5 million on factory improvements, so the company decided instead to leave the state. Company spokesman Adan Ortega Jr. said Gregg didn't want to make the payment in the difficult economic climate.
Losses of factory jobs in California blamed on regulation - Los Angeles Times

With the recent passage of the "Energy Bill/cap and trade/..." I thought it worth mentioning based on the number of times in the bill that Mr. Waxman wish this nation to conform to a CA. standard just how those standards help create all those green jobs....

Perhaps one could rationalize this by claiming that this is just another example of that CREATIVE DESTRUCTION that capitalist are s so fond of telling us is a good thing, eh?

Of course this is, therefore just an example of the CREATIVE DESTRUCTION that comes when society is deciding to alter its modus operandi, much as the market sometimes decides it must.

Having watched Bethlehem Steel go out of business in PA thanks to the creative destruction of market forces (thanks to the society deciding to change it modus operandi to include what we are now calling FREE TRADE) one cannot help but ask oneself if perhaps this whole CREATIVE DESCTRUCTION rationaizing isn't being taken just a tad too seriously.

There seems to be a tremendous emphasis on the destruction process and damned little creative that follows.

BETHLEHEM, Pa. -- A safety officer at the mill for 26 years, Joe Koch felt each twist as Bethlehem Steel, a titan that armed the U.S. military and helped shape skylines across the country, careened into bankruptcy.

Fourteen years after the towering blast furnaces went cold, Koch and other former steelworkers are returning to their sprawling workplace as employees of Las Vegas Sands Corp., which is opening its first East Coast casino there Friday.

While the $743 million Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem pays the historic steel mill homage through its design and architecture, locals and company officials are primarily concerned about the future. Las Vegas Sands, the casino giant led by billionaire Sheldon Adelson, has been counting on Bethlehem to help reverse a slump: The company's first-quarter loss widened to $87.7 million from $11.2 million a year earlier as revenue stagnated at $1.08 billion for the quarter. And city officials are eager to get the long-dormant property back to productive use.
Sands opens casino at former Bethlehem Steel mill - cleveland.com

I'm sorry but I fail to see where replacing steele with a casino and in some cases with those mills just blowing them up is a focus on the creativity that follows! In fact i'm sure if you ask the people that once had opportunities in those plants to put their sons and daughters though college, buy homes, and make a life for themselves working there, how happy they are with the creative world that was created as a result of these vital national assets closing i'm sure you would get a different answer than "creative".

 

[MaggieMae]

The El Monte factory stopped operating just a few weeks ago, but already it feels abandoned, an appropriate setting for a "Terminator" movie.

The dusty clock on the wall is frozen at 7:00. Below it, the deep pits that once held molten steel are now empty, and the parts created there wait in hundreds of boxes to be shipped off across the country or turned into scrap.

Two months ago, more than 300 people were employed at the site making engine parts for trucks and heavy machinery for Gregg Industries, which is owned by Neenah Enterprises Inc. in Wisconsin.

But a settlement with the South Coast Air Quality Management District required Gregg to spend $5 million on factory improvements, so the company decided instead to leave the state. Company spokesman Adan Ortega Jr. said Gregg didn't want to make the payment in the difficult economic climate.
Losses of factory jobs in California blamed on regulation - Los Angeles Times

With the recent passage of the "Energy Bill/cap and trade/..." I thought it worth mentioning based on the number of times in the bill that Mr. Waxman wish this nation to conform to a CA. standard just how those standards help create all those green jobs....

Closing of any US factory is devastating. However, the "Energy Bill/cap and trade is nowhere near passage. It hasn't even gone to the Senate to be picked over yet. This is a California regulatory problem, even according to the cited article.

 

[Navy1960]

The El Monte factory stopped operating just a few weeks ago, but already it feels abandoned, an appropriate setting for a "Terminator" movie.

The dusty clock on the wall is frozen at 7:00. Below it, the deep pits that once held molten steel are now empty, and the parts created there wait in hundreds of boxes to be shipped off across the country or turned into scrap.

Two months ago, more than 300 people were employed at the site making engine parts for trucks and heavy machinery for Gregg Industries, which is owned by Neenah Enterprises Inc. in Wisconsin.

But a settlement with the South Coast Air Quality Management District required Gregg to spend $5 million on factory improvements, so the company decided instead to leave the state. Company spokesman Adan Ortega Jr. said Gregg didn't want to make the payment in the difficult economic climate.
Losses of factory jobs in California blamed on regulation - Los Angeles Times

With the recent passage of the "Energy Bill/cap and trade/..." I thought it worth mentioning based on the number of times in the bill that Mr. Waxman wish this nation to conform to a CA. standard just how those standards help create all those green jobs....

Closing of any US factory is devastating. However, the "Energy Bill/cap and trade is nowhere near passage. It hasn't even gone to the Senate to be picked over yet. This is a California regulatory problem, even according to the cited article.

CAP AND TRADE U.S.
The cap: Each large-scale emitter, or company, will have a limit on the amount of greenhouse gas that it can emit. The firm must have an “emissions permit” for every ton of carbon dioxide it releases into the atmosphere. These permits set an enforceable limit, or cap, on the amount of greenhouse gas pollution that the company is allowed to emit. Over time, the limits become stricter, allowing less and less pollution, until the ultimate reduction goal is met.

The trade: It will be relatively cheaper or easier for some companies to reduce their emissions below their required limit than others. These more efficient companies, who emit less than their allowance, can sell their extra permits to companies that are not able to make reductions as easily.

Companies will be required to purchase the emissions permits from the federal government, which in turn results in a sizeable revenue stream to the federal government. Much of the back room politicking that has occurred over the last few weeks regarding the Waxman-Markey bill has involved how this revenue stream will be allocated to government programs
The Green Building Guide to Waxman-Markey | Green Business | Reuters

Three years ago, I stood on the floor of the California Senate and watched a similar celebration over a similar bill, AB 32. And I have spend the last three years watching as that law has dangerously deepened California’s recession. It uses a different mechanism than Cap and Trade, but the objective is the same: to force a dramatic reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.

Up until that bill took effect, California’s unemployment numbers tracked very closely with the national unemployment rate. But then in January of 2007, California’s unemployment rate began a steady upward divergence from the national jobless figures. Today, California’s unemployment rate is more than two points above the national rate, and at its highest point since 1941.

Special Order Speech on Cap and Trade | Congressman Tom McClintock, Representing the 4th District of California

Your right it's a Ca. reg. problem and guess what Maggie, this bill passes the Senate it will be a problem nationwide. I used the Ca. example to show what a disaster Mr. Waxman has drawn from, however not surprisingly as an environmentalist and from Ca. as is Ms. Pelosi you end up getting legislation that has zero chance of ever helping this economy and in fact is a jobs killer.

 

[hjmick]

The "California standard" has caused quite a few companies to relocate over the years.

I'm curious then hj, as I was aware of this as I have many friends in Ca. and was stationed there more than a few times, What does this say, if those same standards are applied nation wide? Where do you suppose those companies would go then?

Aside from the afore mentioned Mexico, India, China, you can throw in Taiwan. I know the company that bought the place I worked for for 26 years has a facility in Taiwan and Mexico, as well as Arizona. Which is (or was) another popular option for companies leaving California. The pollution restrictions are much lower there than California. As I recall, many companies leaving the state sought refuge in neighboring states with the lower standards. Now, who knows where they will go? I predict more and more will head overseas where the labor is cheap and the pollution standards are lower.

 

[Navy1960]

The "California standard" has caused quite a few companies to relocate over the years.

I'm curious then hj, as I was aware of this as I have many friends in Ca. and was stationed there more than a few times, What does this say, if those same standards are applied nation wide? Where do you suppose those companies would go then?

Aside from the afore mentioned Mexico, India, China, you can throw in Taiwan. I know the company that bought the place I worked for for 26 years has a facility in Taiwan and Mexico, as well as Arizona. Which is (or was) another popular option for companies leaving California. The pollution restrictions are much lower there than California. As I recall, many companies leaving the state sought refuge in neighboring states with the lower standards. Now, who knows where they will go? I predict more and more will head overseas where the labor is cheap and the pollution standards are lower.

That just makes good business sense, and all this talk of imposing trade restrictions on countries that do not comply with this is just talk. Do you think for one moment we would impose any trade restrictions on China given the fact they hold a vast majority of our debt. ? I don't look for that to happen and unless the President is willing to break a treaty walk away from NAFTA which would be a mistake considering this nation gets a vast majority of it's oil imports from Canada and a lot from mexico , I don't see how this talk will come to come to anything. I do see with the imposing of these standards on business here a bigger exit of American business overseas as well as many of the foreign companies that would have built here going elsewhere.

 

[Harry Dresden]

i keep on saying....what ever California does....DONT DO IT.....25-30 years ago California was an innovator of progress.....now they are the innovators of destruction....Nancy Pelosi,Barbara Boxer,Henry Waxmen,Maxine Waters,David Drier,Jerry Lewis and numerous state assembly asswipes....they come to your state....call the MILITIA.....they are all considered DESTRUCTIVE to human society...ESPECIALLY ....ANYONE in the state legislature....

 

[hjmick]

I'm curious then hj, as I was aware of this as I have many friends in Ca. and was stationed there more than a few times, What does this say, if those same standards are applied nation wide? Where do you suppose those companies would go then?

Aside from the afore mentioned Mexico, India, China, you can throw in Taiwan. I know the company that bought the place I worked for for 26 years has a facility in Taiwan and Mexico, as well as Arizona. Which is (or was) another popular option for companies leaving California. The pollution restrictions are much lower there than California. As I recall, many companies leaving the state sought refuge in neighboring states with the lower standards. Now, who knows where they will go? I predict more and more will head overseas where the labor is cheap and the pollution standards are lower.

That just makes good business sense, and all this talk of imposing trade restrictions on countries that do not comply with this is just talk. Do you think for one moment we would impose any trade restrictions on China given the fact they hold a vast majority of our debt. ? I don't look for that to happen and unless the President is willing to break a treaty walk away from NAFTA which would be a mistake considering this nation gets a vast majority of it's oil imports from Canada and a lot from mexico , I don't see how this talk will come to come to anything. I do see with the imposing of these standards on business here a bigger exit of American business overseas as well as many of the foreign companies that would have built here going elsewhere.

I absolutely agree, it is good business, it sucks for employees, but as long as corporations answer to stock holders, the more restrictions imposed by the government that drive down profits the more companies will leave for more profit friendly environs.

 

[Harry Dresden]

one of the reasons many businesses have left California,OR are planning too

 

[oreo]

It's not only their strict regulations--it's their high taxes. Corporations typically locate in friendly state tax states. For an example Ohio--is the 5th highest state taxed in the nation & a large corporation chose S. Carolina to open up operations over Ohio.

 

[hjmick]

It's not only their strict regulations--it's their high taxes. Corporations typically locate in friendly state tax states. For an example Ohio--is the 5th highest state taxed in the nation & a large corporation chose S. Carolina to open up operations over Ohio.

That too...

 

[Navy1960]

LOS ANGELES/NEW YORK (Reuters) - California's controller said on Wednesday that he would have to issue IOUs in a week if lawmakers can't quickly solve a $24 billion budget deficit, and the state's treasurer plans to tap a reserve fund to meet debt service costs.

The measures came as a budget crisis deepened in the most populous U.S. state and the gridlocked legislature failed to pass a proposed $11 billion in cuts.

"Next Wednesday we start a fiscal year with a massively unbalanced spending plan and a cash shortfall not seen since the Great Depression," Controller John Chiang said in a statement announcing that he would be forced to use IOUs to pay the state's bills beginning on July 2.

California set to issue IOUs as fiscal crisis weighs | Reuters

and this is the standard they want to set for the rest of the nation *shakes my head*

 

[MaggieMae]

The El Monte factory stopped operating just a few weeks ago, but already it feels abandoned, an appropriate setting for a "Terminator" movie.

The dusty clock on the wall is frozen at 7:00. Below it, the deep pits that once held molten steel are now empty, and the parts created there wait in hundreds of boxes to be shipped off across the country or turned into scrap.

Two months ago, more than 300 people were employed at the site making engine parts for trucks and heavy machinery for Gregg Industries, which is owned by Neenah Enterprises Inc. in Wisconsin.

But a settlement with the South Coast Air Quality Management District required Gregg to spend $5 million on factory improvements, so the company decided instead to leave the state. Company spokesman Adan Ortega Jr. said Gregg didn't want to make the payment in the difficult economic climate.
Losses of factory jobs in California blamed on regulation - Los Angeles Times

With the recent passage of the "Energy Bill/cap and trade/..." I thought it worth mentioning based on the number of times in the bill that Mr. Waxman wish this nation to conform to a CA. standard just how those standards help create all those green jobs....

Closing of any US factory is devastating. However, the "Energy Bill/cap and trade is nowhere near passage. It hasn't even gone to the Senate to be picked over yet. This is a California regulatory problem, even according to the cited article.

CAP AND TRADE U.S.
The cap: Each large-scale emitter, or company, will have a limit on the amount of greenhouse gas that it can emit. The firm must have an “emissions permit” for every ton of carbon dioxide it releases into the atmosphere. These permits set an enforceable limit, or cap, on the amount of greenhouse gas pollution that the company is allowed to emit. Over time, the limits become stricter, allowing less and less pollution, until the ultimate reduction goal is met.

The trade: It will be relatively cheaper or easier for some companies to reduce their emissions below their required limit than others. These more efficient companies, who emit less than their allowance, can sell their extra permits to companies that are not able to make reductions as easily.

Companies will be required to purchase the emissions permits from the federal government, which in turn results in a sizeable revenue stream to the federal government. Much of the back room politicking that has occurred over the last few weeks regarding the Waxman-Markey bill has involved how this revenue stream will be allocated to government programs
The Green Building Guide to Waxman-Markey | Green Business | Reuters

Three years ago, I stood on the floor of the California Senate and watched a similar celebration over a similar bill, AB 32. And I have spend the last three years watching as that law has dangerously deepened California’s recession. It uses a different mechanism than Cap and Trade, but the objective is the same: to force a dramatic reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.

Up until that bill took effect, California’s unemployment numbers tracked very closely with the national unemployment rate. But then in January of 2007, California’s unemployment rate began a steady upward divergence from the national jobless figures. Today, California’s unemployment rate is more than two points above the national rate, and at its highest point since 1941.

Special Order Speech on Cap and Trade | Congressman Tom McClintock, Representing the 4th District of California

Your right it's a Ca. reg. problem and guess what Maggie, this bill passes the Senate it will be a problem nationwide. I used the Ca. example to show what a disaster Mr. Waxman has drawn from, however not surprisingly as an environmentalist and from Ca. as is Ms. Pelosi you end up getting legislation that has zero chance of ever helping this economy and in fact is a jobs killer.

Ironically, however, the El Monte plant might have been able to "buy" the excesses from some other plant which met the standards, and thus remain in business.

That said, the El Monte plant appears to have a smell problem, rather than emissions into the atmosphere similar to what mega coal-burning factories spew.

 

[MaggieMae]

i keep on saying....what ever California does....DONT DO IT.....25-30 years ago California was an innovator of progress.....now they are the innovators of destruction....Nancy Pelosi,Barbara Boxer,Henry Waxmen,Maxine Waters,David Drier,Jerry Lewis and numerous state assembly asswipes....they come to your state....call the MILITIA.....they are all considered DESTRUCTIVE to human society...ESPECIALLY ....ANYONE in the state legislature....

I think they are reacting to what the people in their districts want, just as the Republican California lawmakers do northward of LA County. Who do you think doesn't want drilling for oil off the coast of Santa Barbara? Democrats? Uh uh...the wealthy "conservatives" in that county who don't want their starter castles to look out upon oil platforms.

It works both ways.

 

[MaggieMae]

Aside from the afore mentioned Mexico, India, China, you can throw in Taiwan. I know the company that bought the place I worked for for 26 years has a facility in Taiwan and Mexico, as well as Arizona. Which is (or was) another popular option for companies leaving California. The pollution restrictions are much lower there than California. As I recall, many companies leaving the state sought refuge in neighboring states with the lower standards. Now, who knows where they will go? I predict more and more will head overseas where the labor is cheap and the pollution standards are lower.

That just makes good business sense, and all this talk of imposing trade restrictions on countries that do not comply with this is just talk. Do you think for one moment we would impose any trade restrictions on China given the fact they hold a vast majority of our debt. ? I don't look for that to happen and unless the President is willing to break a treaty walk away from NAFTA which would be a mistake considering this nation gets a vast majority of it's oil imports from Canada and a lot from mexico , I don't see how this talk will come to come to anything. I do see with the imposing of these standards on business here a bigger exit of American business overseas as well as many of the foreign companies that would have built here going elsewhere.

I absolutely agree, it is good business, it sucks for employees, but as long as corporations answer to stock holders, the more restrictions imposed by the government that drive down profits the more companies will leave for more profit friendly environs.

I still maintain that many corporations who move offshore do it because of greed. Oh those poor, abused over-taxed/over-regulated corporations: More than 2.5 million U.S. companies filed corporate tax returns in 2007, but because of loopholes and write-offs, their payments generated just 15% of total federal tax revenue.