Green Energy doesn't mean Oil Independence

[KittenKoder]

Actually cars can use concentrated solar plants and wind turbines. They are called batteries.

All the moving parts need oil, and vegetable oil won't work, they tried that in labs already. Also plastics need oil.

Miniscule compared to running a gas combustion engine.

Have you ever worked with engines, electric engines actually need just as much oil. The amount of oil a car "sprays" onto its engine is more than the oil required to make the fuel the combustion engine requires to run. Oil used for lubrication is pure oil and condensed, but when it's converted into fuel it is diluted and loosened to make it more combustible.

 

[Iriemon]

All the moving parts need oil, and vegetable oil won't work, they tried that in labs already. Also plastics need oil.

Miniscule compared to running a gas combustion engine.

Have you ever worked with engines, electric engines actually need just as much oil. The amount of oil a car "sprays" onto its engine is more than the oil required to make the fuel the combustion engine requires to run. Oil used for lubrication is pure oil and condensed, but when it's converted into fuel it is diluted and loosened to make it more combustible.

But you don't need to put 16 gallons of oil in your car every 300 miles.

 

[KittenKoder]

Miniscule compared to running a gas combustion engine.

Have you ever worked with engines, electric engines actually need just as much oil. The amount of oil a car "sprays" onto its engine is more than the oil required to make the fuel the combustion engine requires to run. Oil used for lubrication is pure oil and condensed, but when it's converted into fuel it is diluted and loosened to make it more combustible.

But you don't need to put 16 gallons of oil in your car every 300 miles.

Most cars don't need that much fuel ... well foreign ones. Also, 16 gallons of fuel would equal about the same amount of oil as about 5 quarts of lubricant oil.

 

[krotchdog]

Green Energy gets a tax credit of 1.8 cent per kilowatt, the same price it costs a nuclear plant or coal plant to produce a kilowatt.

Oil companies suffer tons of regulations, over 50 different blends of gas, an oil supply controled by governments, endless lawsuits brought on by greenee meanees.

Price at the pump went up simply due to the governments interference, where do you think AIG put all that money they had, where do you think the bank was investing, in the worlds biggest commodity, ever scratch your head and wonder who lost money when the price per barrel went from 140$ to 50$ over night. More oil was traded at 140$, that is more bought, Bush himself said we have a surplus of oil 6 times higher than expected, so the government pumps easy money into the economy, it changes hands a bunch of times, its invested in the worlds largest commodity, the price falls, so how much money does the guy lose who paid 140$ and he can only sell it for 40$. Are we bailing out oil investors, what are the banks investments in oil and how much did they lose, why did Obama say we will not investigate the financial crisis. How can you solve a problem if there is no investigation telling us what happened.

This is nothing more than the biggest cover up in history and Obama is out there distracting us from it with his world apology tour.

Is that the Rush or Mark version of the economy these days?

Its not rush or mark levin, its my thought, my idea, my work, I have yet to see one paper or one person question how much of the cash the banks and aig got from housing they then invested in oil, where did all that money come from that drove up the price of oil. It dont take a genius to figure it out.

I listen to rush and levin but I also think for myself. More importantly I listen to many sources of news and read many books.

This is my original post inspired by news reports. I heard Bush on the radio stating our surplus of oil was six times higher than expected, anyone watching the news saw oil rise and fall, I see the government bail out more than banks, I know what people bought they will sell, I know its only banks and investment firms that have huge amounts of money. I know oil is the largest commodity in the world.

I think for myself. Rush just allows me not to have to read the NY Times and he covers what the news doesnt in the Congress. I like The Mark Levin Show » Audio because he is the liberals worst nightmare.

 

[Iriemon]

Green Energy gets a tax credit of 1.8 cent per kilowatt, the same price it costs a nuclear plant or coal plant to produce a kilowatt.

Oil companies suffer tons of regulations, over 50 different blends of gas, an oil supply controled by governments, endless lawsuits brought on by greenee meanees.

Price at the pump went up simply due to the governments interference, where do you think AIG put all that money they had, where do you think the bank was investing, in the worlds biggest commodity, ever scratch your head and wonder who lost money when the price per barrel went from 140$ to 50$ over night. More oil was traded at 140$, that is more bought, Bush himself said we have a surplus of oil 6 times higher than expected, so the government pumps easy money into the economy, it changes hands a bunch of times, its invested in the worlds largest commodity, the price falls, so how much money does the guy lose who paid 140$ and he can only sell it for 40$. Are we bailing out oil investors, what are the banks investments in oil and how much did they lose, why did Obama say we will not investigate the financial crisis. How can you solve a problem if there is no investigation telling us what happened.

This is nothing more than the biggest cover up in history and Obama is out there distracting us from it with his world apology tour.

Is that the Rush or Mark version of the economy these days?

Its not rush or mark levin, its my thought, my idea, my work, I have yet to see one paper or one person question how much of the cash the banks and aig got from housing they then invested in oil, where did all that money come from that drove up the price of oil. It dont take a genius to figure it out.

I listen to rush and levin but I also think for myself. More importantly I listen to many sources of news and read many books.

This is my original post inspired by news reports. I heard Bush on the radio stating our surplus of oil was six times higher than expected, anyone watching the news saw oil rise and fall, I see the government bail out more than banks, I know what people bought they will sell, I know its only banks and investment firms that have huge amounts of money. I know oil is the largest commodity in the world.

Well I'll play. What evidence is there that the financial institutions invested heavily in oil, as opposed to, say, subprime mortgages?

I think for myself. Rush just allows me not to have to read the NY Times and he covers what the news doesnt in the Congress. I like The Mark Levin Show » Audio because he is the liberals worst nightmare.

Good for you. I listen to Levine driving home on occasion, having to tune in more than about 15 minutes would be a nightmare. The guy is just the biggest whiner on earth. Liberals and "statits" are to blame for everything, Obama is a socialist, that's why he shook Chevez' hand, he's destoying the country, on and on. He's a complete partisan hack.

 

[krotchdog]

Iriemon, where do you think the government gets its cash, sure it prints it but it also takes, it takes trillions. Trillions every year, you think they just tax the rich. I posted the figures, where I got them is not important. Take them with a grain of salt, I hate data, it can be skewered in any number of ways. Add a margin of error, use it as thought to think of something you have not considered. Thats why its there, its not important to argue the accuracy, its a waste to dismiss it totally. Government gets its money from somewhere and oil be the largest commodity its going to get the largest amount of tax money from oil. Oil companies are not evil, they give americans jobs. They give you life, food, energy, the computer, we make everything with oil. A certain percentage of a barrel of oil will always be gasoline, it gets seperated out according to its specific gravity. Oil gets seperated into all kinds of chemicals that are we need for everything from medicine to making the fiberglass for windmills. Windmills are only as renewable as oil. If we quit using gas in cars tomorrow a certain percentage of oil will still be gas, you cant escape this, so if we dont use gas than its toxic waste. Of course you got to drive a car on a road, you think we will than use cement and deplets that resource, nope, it will be more economical to use the stuff that is leftover after we take all we need from oil, thats asphalt, you will have to build roads with it otherwise what are you going to do with asphalt. We will still need oil for propene, which fiberglass production needs, so you still need to do something with the leftovers of oil refining.

Yes powerful people control oil companies but even more powerful people are presidents, although for a shorter time. Man needs rules.

 

[krotchdog]

Is that the Rush or Mark version of the economy these days?

Its not rush or mark levin, its my thought, my idea, my work, I have yet to see one paper or one person question how much of the cash the banks and aig got from housing they then invested in oil, where did all that money come from that drove up the price of oil. It dont take a genius to figure it out.

I listen to rush and levin but I also think for myself. More importantly I listen to many sources of news and read many books.

This is my original post inspired by news reports. I heard Bush on the radio stating our surplus of oil was six times higher than expected, anyone watching the news saw oil rise and fall, I see the government bail out more than banks, I know what people bought they will sell, I know its only banks and investment firms that have huge amounts of money. I know oil is the largest commodity in the world.

Well I'll play. What evidence is there that the financial institutions invested heavily in oil, as opposed to, say, subprime mortgages?

I think for myself. Rush just allows me not to have to read the NY Times and he covers what the news doesnt in the Congress. I like The Mark Levin Show » Audio because he is the liberals worst nightmare.

Good for you. I listen to Levine driving home on occasion, having to tune in more than about 15 minutes would be a nightmare. The guy is just the biggest whiner on earth. Liberals and "statits" are to blame for everything, Obama is a socialist, that's why he shook Chevez' hand, he's destoying the country, on and on. He's a complete partisan hack.

You dont need evidense and this is not play, you know subprime mortgages are bundled loans that got sold, those who sold the loans than had money to invest, where is the money from the subprimes loans, these loans got bought and sold over and over, sure some people got stuck with them but what about those that sold the loans before the crash, this was going on for more than a month, it was going on all during the bush administration.

Savings and loan crisis of the 1980's, Bush sr bailed out the S&L's, one of his sons lost a billion dollars on a bank, Bush's business partner was going to lose billions, S&L's bought loans from banks, banks made loans on over valued propertys, Bush bailed them out. Like father like son.

Some idiots did not see the end of the game or was it a plan that right before Bush left office he bails everyone out. Goldman Sachs got bailed out, people bundled loans and the government agencies of Freddie mac and Fannie mae bought them, why isnt Obama investigating, he says he will investigate torture but not the financial crisis.

Go look at the Timothy Geithner thread in politics, look at who Geithner is and tell me we know what happened.

It is common knowledge that the largest investment firms got bailed out, we know oil was selling for 140, they got to sell that oil, 6 times the surplus than thought, it takes time to sell 6 times the surplus they thought, whats those numbers and how long will it take to sell that much oil I dont know. Either way alot of money is getting dumped into many banks across the whole world and its impossible that its solely the housing market. The people are getting blamed, think of the screaming if the truth was we were bailing out oil investors.

We are bailing out oil investors, across the whole world. At first they said the subprime loans was only 1% of the housing market. Its crazy to believe it was only housing loses.
Its oil and Obama is big Oil.

Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Iriemon]

Have you ever worked with engines, electric engines actually need just as much oil. The amount of oil a car "sprays" onto its engine is more than the oil required to make the fuel the combustion engine requires to run. Oil used for lubrication is pure oil and condensed, but when it's converted into fuel it is diluted and loosened to make it more combustible.

But you don't need to put 16 gallons of oil in your car every 300 miles.

Most cars don't need that much fuel ... well foreign ones. Also, 16 gallons of fuel would equal about the same amount of oil as about 5 quarts of lubricant oil.

Which will last you about 5000 miles, as opposed to about 300 miles for an equivalent amount of gas. And the gas powered care needs lubricating oil too.

 

[Iriemon]

Its not rush or mark levin, its my thought, my idea, my work, I have yet to see one paper or one person question how much of the cash the banks and aig got from housing they then invested in oil, where did all that money come from that drove up the price of oil. It dont take a genius to figure it out.

I listen to rush and levin but I also think for myself. More importantly I listen to many sources of news and read many books.

This is my original post inspired by news reports. I heard Bush on the radio stating our surplus of oil was six times higher than expected, anyone watching the news saw oil rise and fall, I see the government bail out more than banks, I know what people bought they will sell, I know its only banks and investment firms that have huge amounts of money. I know oil is the largest commodity in the world.

Well I'll play. What evidence is there that the financial institutions invested heavily in oil, as opposed to, say, subprime mortgages?

I think for myself. Rush just allows me not to have to read the NY Times and he covers what the news doesnt in the Congress. I like The Mark Levin Show » Audio because he is the liberals worst nightmare.

Good for you. I listen to Levine driving home on occasion, having to tune in more than about 15 minutes would be a nightmare. The guy is just the biggest whiner on earth. Liberals and "statits" are to blame for everything, Obama is a socialist, that's why he shook Chevez' hand, he's destoying the country, on and on. He's a complete partisan hack.

You dont need evidense and this is not play, you know subprime mortgages are bundled loans that got sold, those who sold the loans than had money to invest, where is the money from the subprimes loans,

Loans to people, fees to brokers, dividends and bonuses.

these loans got bought and sold over and over, sure some people got stuck with them but what about those that sold the loans before the crash, this was going on for more than a month, it was going on all during the bush administration.

Sure different brokers took a piece.

Savings and loan crisis of the 1980's, Bush sr bailed out the S&L's, one of his sons lost a billion dollars on a bank, Bush's business partner was going to lose billions, S&L's bought loans from banks, banks made loans on over valued propertys, Bush bailed them out. Like father like son.

Lots of S&Ls didn't get bailed out. Maybe there was some impropriety. I never saw it proved.

Some idiots did not see the end of the game or was it a plan that right before Bush left office he bails everyone out. Goldman Sachs got bailed out, people bundled loans and the government agencies of Freddie mac and Fannie mae bought them, why isnt Obama investigating, he says he will investigate torture but not the financial crisis.

The ownes, shareholders, got devasted, so not everyone ended up peachy.

I certainly agree that having to bail out these companies was a crime.

Which is why I keep saying we need to cut these mega companies down to size so that they are not "too big to fail" again.

Go look at the Timothy Geithner thread in politics, look at who Geithner is and tell me we know what happened.

I did look, and sorry, thought it was nonsense.

It is common knowledge that the largest investment firms got bailed out, we know oil was selling for 140, they got to sell that oil, 6 times the surplus than thought, it takes time to sell 6 times the surplus they thought, whats those numbers and how long will it take to sell that much oil I dont know. Either way alot of money is getting dumped into many banks across the whole world and its impossible that its solely the housing market. The people are getting blamed, think of the screaming if the truth was we were bailing out oil investors.

The money mostly got lent out to people to fund mortgatges who are now defaulting on them.

We are bailing out oil investors, across the whole world. At first they said the subprime loans was only 1% of the housing market. Its crazy to believe it was only housing loses.
Its oil and Obama is big Oil.

Not from any evidence I've seen.

Smoke and mirrors.

You can imagine just about anythink you want if you don't need evidence.

 

[KittenKoder]

But you don't need to put 16 gallons of oil in your car every 300 miles.

Most cars don't need that much fuel ... well foreign ones. Also, 16 gallons of fuel would equal about the same amount of oil as about 5 quarts of lubricant oil.

Which will last you about 5000 miles, as opposed to about 300 miles for an equivalent amount of gas. And the gas powered care needs lubricating oil too.

However, lubricant oil is "sprayed" onto the engine, thus even the best tuned machine will expel a lot into the air and on the ground, so the impact is still the same.

 

[Iriemon]

Most cars don't need that much fuel ... well foreign ones. Also, 16 gallons of fuel would equal about the same amount of oil as about 5 quarts of lubricant oil.

Which will last you about 5000 miles, as opposed to about 300 miles for an equivalent amount of gas. And the gas powered care needs lubricating oil too.

However, lubricant oil is "sprayed" onto the engine, thus even the best tuned machine will expel a lot into the air and on the ground, so the impact is still the same.

Now I have to ask if you are familiar with how engines work? The inner parts of an engine are in an oil bath and the oil is circulated around when the engine is running. If it is sprayed it is within the engine, not sprayed out of it.

A typical 5 qt oil fill lasts about 5000 before you need to change it.

You say that is roughly equivalent to 16 gals of gas that maybe get 300 miles. that means to go 5000 miles you use the equivalent of 16x more oil in burning gas, and you still need the 5 qts lubrication. So that 17x more oil used in a gas combustion car.

The amount of oil needed to run a comparable non-gas powered car, assuming it in fact needs the same amount of lubricating oil as a gas combution engine needs (which is dubious because a gas engine has far more moving parts than an electric motor) is 1/17th; a miniscule amount in comparison to a gas driven vehicle.

 

[KittenKoder]

Which will last you about 5000 miles, as opposed to about 300 miles for an equivalent amount of gas. And the gas powered care needs lubricating oil too.

However, lubricant oil is "sprayed" onto the engine, thus even the best tuned machine will expel a lot into the air and on the ground, so the impact is still the same.

Now I have to ask if you are familiar with how engines work? The inner parts of an engine are in an oil bath and the oil is circulated around when the engine is running. If it is sprayed it is within the engine, not sprayed out of it.

A typical 5 qt oil fill lasts about 5000 before you need to change it.

You say that is roughly equivalent to 16 gals of gas that maybe get 300 miles. that means to go 5000 miles you use the equivalent of 16x more oil in burning gas, and you still need the 5 qts lubrication. So that 17x more oil used in a gas combustion car.

The amount of oil needed to run a comparable non-gas powered car, assuming it in fact needs the same amount of lubricating oil as a gas combution engine needs (which is dubious because a gas engine has far more moving parts than an electric motor) is 1/17th; a miniscule amount in comparison to a gas driven vehicle.

Straying too far, but that's what I said just not into detail to avoid staying off topic too long, epic fail but meh.

However, this means we STILL NEED oil, and lots of it. Electric engines do not work on the same principle, they will require more oil, almost completely negating the "savings" in the amount of oil needed. An electric engine breaks oil down faster and they require about the same amount of plastics to make.

 

[Iriemon]

However, lubricant oil is "sprayed" onto the engine, thus even the best tuned machine will expel a lot into the air and on the ground, so the impact is still the same.

Now I have to ask if you are familiar with how engines work? The inner parts of an engine are in an oil bath and the oil is circulated around when the engine is running. If it is sprayed it is within the engine, not sprayed out of it.

A typical 5 qt oil fill lasts about 5000 before you need to change it.

You say that is roughly equivalent to 16 gals of gas that maybe get 300 miles. that means to go 5000 miles you use the equivalent of 16x more oil in burning gas, and you still need the 5 qts lubrication. So that 17x more oil used in a gas combustion car.

The amount of oil needed to run a comparable non-gas powered car, assuming it in fact needs the same amount of lubricating oil as a gas combution engine needs (which is dubious because a gas engine has far more moving parts than an electric motor) is 1/17th; a miniscule amount in comparison to a gas driven vehicle.

Straying too far, but that's what I said just not into detail to avoid staying off topic too long, epic fail but meh.

However, this means we STILL NEED oil, and lots of it. Electric engines do not work on the same principle, they will require more oil, almost completely negating the "savings" in the amount of oil needed. An electric engine breaks oil down faster and they require about the same amount of plastics to make.

Electric motors do not require almost the same about of oil to operate as a gas combustion engine.

Not even close. An electric motor has very few parts and needs very little oil to operate.

 

[KittenKoder]

Now I have to ask if you are familiar with how engines work? The inner parts of an engine are in an oil bath and the oil is circulated around when the engine is running. If it is sprayed it is within the engine, not sprayed out of it.

A typical 5 qt oil fill lasts about 5000 before you need to change it.

You say that is roughly equivalent to 16 gals of gas that maybe get 300 miles. that means to go 5000 miles you use the equivalent of 16x more oil in burning gas, and you still need the 5 qts lubrication. So that 17x more oil used in a gas combustion car.

The amount of oil needed to run a comparable non-gas powered car, assuming it in fact needs the same amount of lubricating oil as a gas combution engine needs (which is dubious because a gas engine has far more moving parts than an electric motor) is 1/17th; a miniscule amount in comparison to a gas driven vehicle.

Straying too far, but that's what I said just not into detail to avoid staying off topic too long, epic fail but meh.

However, this means we STILL NEED oil, and lots of it. Electric engines do not work on the same principle, they will require more oil, almost completely negating the "savings" in the amount of oil needed. An electric engine breaks oil down faster and they require about the same amount of plastics to make.

Electric motors do not require almost the same about of oil to operate as a gas combustion engine.

Not even close. An electric motor has very few parts and needs very little oil to operate.

We aren't talking about hobby electric motors. Those for cars which have to move at least 65 MPH are much more complex. I tried that argument myself when I was fooled by the "green" con, but then was put straight by my father, a mechanic.