Greece Collapsing Under Weight of Massive Welfare

[eagle1462010]

DebtClocks.eu - Debt clocks of the EU Member States - comparison

Estonia
Germany
Luxembourg.

are the only 3 countries in the EU to have positive surplus/debt ratios......
all else have to borrow to pay the bills.

aka we are not the only ones needing to throw the fucking ring into the fire.

 

[eagle1462010]

World Debt Clock National Debt Clocks From Around The World

World Debt Clock............

61 TRILLION and growing...........

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

Press Release Statement by IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde on Greece

Statement by IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde on Greece
Press Release No.15/302
June 28, 2015
Ms. Christine Lagarde, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), made the following statement today:

“I have briefed the IMF Executive Board on the inconclusive outcome of recent discussions on Greece in Brussels. I shared my disappointment and underscored our commitment to continue to engage with the Greek authorities.

“The coming days will clearly be important. I welcome the statements of the Eurogroup and the European Central Bank to make full use of all available instruments to preserve the integrity and stability of the euro area. These statements underscore that the euro area today is in a strong position to respond to developments in a timely and effective manner, as needed.

“The IMF also will continue to carefully monitor developments in Greece and other countries in the vicinity and stands ready to provide assistance as needed.

 

[eagle1462010]

Greek debt crisis hopes rise for decision-day deal for Alexis Tsipras - live updates Business The Guardian

Helena Smith has more on a possible deal, with talk that Alexis Tsipras may be set to travel to Brussels soon to discuss it:

Reports are mounting that the Greek prime minister has not only accepted a deal but will travel to Brussels, possibly as early as this evening, to discuss it with senior EU officials.

The deal, based on reforms proposed by EU commission president Jean-Claude Juncker late last night, is believed to have been rubber stamped at a meeting of senior government official held at the prime minister’s office, the Megaron Maximou, this morning. The German daily, Bild, is also backing up the reports, saying Tsipras has had contact with high ranking EU officials whom he will meet imminently. “The prime minister’s plane is at the ready,” the paper said.

Speaking to Mega TV, Konstantinos Michalos who heads the Athens Chamber of Commerce and Industry and is widely respected in Greek economic circles, reinforced that, he, too, had a growing sense that “positive developments” would be seen late this evening.

And in the final minutes to disaster............the deal will be struck

 

[eagle1462010]

Real Time updates.
Greek debt crisis hopes rise for decision-day deal for Alexis Tsipras - live updates Business The Guardian

Enjoy the Show.

 

[g5000]

Where do you fools think the money that was given to Greece and Portugal and Spain and Italy came from?

Greece borrowed that money from you.


Every day, people all over the country and the world waddle into their company HR office, fill out some forms, and hack off a chunk of their income. They toss their money into a 401k manager's lap, or into an IRA fund manager's lap and say, "No go out there and build me a retirement nest egg. And you better earn me a 12 percent return, OR ELSE!"

And off goes your money to Greece.

Especially in these days of ZIRP. It's called ZERO INTEREST rate policy for a reason.

It's pretty hard...no...it is impossible to make that 12 percent return you demand by lending money to good borrowers in a ZIRP world. You have to give it subprime borrowers to get that kind of return.

Borrowers like...Greece.

What's more, for quite a while now, the good debtor-to-creditor ratio has been way, way, way out of whack. The creditors have $70 trillion and there just aren't $70 trillion worth of good borrowers out there. But all those 401k investors (you) are demanding their money be put to work.

So your cash ends up in the hands of subprime borrowers of all flavors. Home buyers, countries, corporations, etc.

Your 401k manager thinks being in proximity to other people's (your) money makes him smart. Then some Wall Street wizard with spirals in his eyes drops by, spinning tales of swaps and inverse floaters, and the next thing you know, your nest egg is placing a bet against a benchmark rate. "Round and round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows!"

Section 117 of the CFMA:

This Act shall supersede and preempt the application of any State or local law that prohibits or regulates gaming or the operation of bucket shops

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Synthaholic]

The banks did not force Greece to borrow. They FACILITATED Greece's borrowing. That's how banks make money, tard.

Greece was a shitty credit risk that wanted money. In normal circumstances, the world market would say to such a country, "Tough shit" and Greece would be unable to get its hands on the money.

But Goldman Sachs found a way for them. "Here", they said, "we will use the magic of derivatives to transfer risk from the shitty borrower to the rube lenders. It's been working wonders in the world housing market!"

Oopsie!

Same model. Same timeframe.

Except that's not what happened.

Greece was NOT considered a bad credit like the are today. That is why all the banks were lending them money. The spread of Greek debt over German debt had fallen from 10% in the 1990s to about 0.1% a decade later. When the swaps were structured, Greek bonds were trading "near the tights" over German bunds compared to at any time in their history prior to joining the eurozone. Banks thought that because Greece was a sovereign in the eurozone, it should trade similarly to Germany, another sovereign in the eurozone. Oops! Wrong.

That Goldman Sachs is somehow responsible is simply flat-out wrong. The fundamental problem is that Greece should NEVER have been allowed into the eurozone in the first place. The causes of the problems have nothing to do with Goldman Sachs or any other Wall Street bank. It has to do with the structural flaws of the eurozone.

The Greek economy is simply not strong enough to be in a currency union with the likes of Germany. The ONLY way that likes of Greece (and Italy and Spain and Portugal) can continue to be in the eurozone is either they structure their economy to be like the Germans or there is a perpetual transfer of wealth from the Germans to the Greeks, i.e. Germany gives their tax dollars and/or savings to the Greeks in perpetuity. Or some combination of the two. There is no other way without a full political union.

And none of that has anything to do with Goldman Sachs or derivatives.

I went to Greece 3 times in the early 1990s, and they were doing fine, with the Drachma. It was weak against the dollar, but I didn't find a ton of deals shopping in Glyfada. Restaurants were reasonable, hotels were on par with the U.S., only the rooms weren't as nice.

 

[The Rabbi]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

 

[The Rabbi]

The banks did not force Greece to borrow. They FACILITATED Greece's borrowing. That's how banks make money, tard.

Greece was a shitty credit risk that wanted money. In normal circumstances, the world market would say to such a country, "Tough shit" and Greece would be unable to get its hands on the money.

But Goldman Sachs found a way for them. "Here", they said, "we will use the magic of derivatives to transfer risk from the shitty borrower to the rube lenders. It's been working wonders in the world housing market!"

Oopsie!

Same model. Same timeframe.

Except that's not what happened.

Greece was NOT considered a bad credit like the are today. That is why all the banks were lending them money. The spread of Greek debt over German debt had fallen from 10% in the 1990s to about 0.1% a decade later. When the swaps were structured, Greek bonds were trading "near the tights" over German bunds compared to at any time in their history prior to joining the eurozone. Banks thought that because Greece was a sovereign in the eurozone, it should trade similarly to Germany, another sovereign in the eurozone. Oops! Wrong.

That Goldman Sachs is somehow responsible is simply flat-out wrong. The fundamental problem is that Greece should NEVER have been allowed into the eurozone in the first place. The causes of the problems have nothing to do with Goldman Sachs or any other Wall Street bank. It has to do with the structural flaws of the eurozone.

The Greek economy is simply not strong enough to be in a currency union with the likes of Germany. The ONLY way that likes of Greece (and Italy and Spain and Portugal) can continue to be in the eurozone is either they structure their economy to be like the Germans or there is a perpetual transfer of wealth from the Germans to the Greeks, i.e. Germany gives their tax dollars and/or savings to the Greeks in perpetuity. Or some combination of the two. There is no other way without a full political union.

And none of that has anything to do with Goldman Sachs or derivatives.

I went to Greece 3 times in the early 1990s, and they were doing fine, with the Drachma. It was weak against the dollar, but I didn't find a ton of deals shopping in Glyfada. Restaurants were reasonable, hotels were on par with the U.S., only the rooms weren't as nice.

Yes, a few days as a tourist 20 years ago shopping in one place certainly makes you an expert in economic issues.
Dolt.

 

[Synthaholic]

The banks did not force Greece to borrow. They FACILITATED Greece's borrowing. That's how banks make money, tard.

Greece was a shitty credit risk that wanted money. In normal circumstances, the world market would say to such a country, "Tough shit" and Greece would be unable to get its hands on the money.

But Goldman Sachs found a way for them. "Here", they said, "we will use the magic of derivatives to transfer risk from the shitty borrower to the rube lenders. It's been working wonders in the world housing market!"

Oopsie!

Same model. Same timeframe.

Except that's not what happened.

Greece was NOT considered a bad credit like the are today. That is why all the banks were lending them money. The spread of Greek debt over German debt had fallen from 10% in the 1990s to about 0.1% a decade later. When the swaps were structured, Greek bonds were trading "near the tights" over German bunds compared to at any time in their history prior to joining the eurozone. Banks thought that because Greece was a sovereign in the eurozone, it should trade similarly to Germany, another sovereign in the eurozone. Oops! Wrong.

That Goldman Sachs is somehow responsible is simply flat-out wrong. The fundamental problem is that Greece should NEVER have been allowed into the eurozone in the first place. The causes of the problems have nothing to do with Goldman Sachs or any other Wall Street bank. It has to do with the structural flaws of the eurozone.

The Greek economy is simply not strong enough to be in a currency union with the likes of Germany. The ONLY way that likes of Greece (and Italy and Spain and Portugal) can continue to be in the eurozone is either they structure their economy to be like the Germans or there is a perpetual transfer of wealth from the Germans to the Greeks, i.e. Germany gives their tax dollars and/or savings to the Greeks in perpetuity. Or some combination of the two. There is no other way without a full political union.

And none of that has anything to do with Goldman Sachs or derivatives.

I went to Greece 3 times in the early 1990s, and they were doing fine, with the Drachma. It was weak against the dollar, but I didn't find a ton of deals shopping in Glyfada. Restaurants were reasonable, hotels were on par with the U.S., only the rooms weren't as nice.

Yes, a few days as a tourist 20 years ago shopping in one place certainly makes you an expert in economic issues.
Dolt.

It has nothing to do with shopping in one place. Greece was doing fine, and preparing for the 1996 Olympics (which they didn't get). If you have the intellectual ability, you could look it up. 1990-1995. Knock yourself out. Please.

 

[Synthaholic]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

The reason they are in such a situation is the imposed austerity. It's another failed conservative policy, failing in every European country that embraced it.

Fortunately, we had Barack Obama, who didn't fall for it and opted for a nation-saving stimulus.

 

[The Rabbi]

The banks did not force Greece to borrow. They FACILITATED Greece's borrowing. That's how banks make money, tard.

Greece was a shitty credit risk that wanted money. In normal circumstances, the world market would say to such a country, "Tough shit" and Greece would be unable to get its hands on the money.

But Goldman Sachs found a way for them. "Here", they said, "we will use the magic of derivatives to transfer risk from the shitty borrower to the rube lenders. It's been working wonders in the world housing market!"

Oopsie!

Same model. Same timeframe.

Except that's not what happened.

Greece was NOT considered a bad credit like the are today. That is why all the banks were lending them money. The spread of Greek debt over German debt had fallen from 10% in the 1990s to about 0.1% a decade later. When the swaps were structured, Greek bonds were trading "near the tights" over German bunds compared to at any time in their history prior to joining the eurozone. Banks thought that because Greece was a sovereign in the eurozone, it should trade similarly to Germany, another sovereign in the eurozone. Oops! Wrong.

That Goldman Sachs is somehow responsible is simply flat-out wrong. The fundamental problem is that Greece should NEVER have been allowed into the eurozone in the first place. The causes of the problems have nothing to do with Goldman Sachs or any other Wall Street bank. It has to do with the structural flaws of the eurozone.

The Greek economy is simply not strong enough to be in a currency union with the likes of Germany. The ONLY way that likes of Greece (and Italy and Spain and Portugal) can continue to be in the eurozone is either they structure their economy to be like the Germans or there is a perpetual transfer of wealth from the Germans to the Greeks, i.e. Germany gives their tax dollars and/or savings to the Greeks in perpetuity. Or some combination of the two. There is no other way without a full political union.

And none of that has anything to do with Goldman Sachs or derivatives.

I went to Greece 3 times in the early 1990s, and they were doing fine, with the Drachma. It was weak against the dollar, but I didn't find a ton of deals shopping in Glyfada. Restaurants were reasonable, hotels were on par with the U.S., only the rooms weren't as nice.

Yes, a few days as a tourist 20 years ago shopping in one place certainly makes you an expert in economic issues.
Dolt.

It has nothing to do with shopping in one place. Greece was doing fine, and preparing for the 1996 Olympics (which they didn't get). If you have the intellectual ability, you could look it up. 1990-1995. Knock yourself out. Please.

The inflation rate was over 8% at a time when US rates were under 3.
you lose.

 

[The Rabbi]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

The reason they are in such a situation is the imposed austerity. It's another failed conservative policy, failing in every European country that embraced it.

Fortunately, we had Barack Obama, who didn't fall for it and opted for a nation-saving stimulus.

Bullshit.
Austerity is the least of their problems. Over-generous gov't beneifts to retirees, stranging labor policies, enormous red tape to do anything. Just what Democrats want for the US.
Greece is a Democrat's wet dream.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

The reason they are in such a situation is the imposed austerity. It's another failed conservative policy, failing in every European country that embraced it.

Fortunately, we had Barack Obama, who didn't fall for it and opted for a nation-saving stimulus.

Yes, God knows printing $10,000,000,000,000 in new money saved us.

 

[The Rabbi]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

The reason they are in such a situation is the imposed austerity. It's another failed conservative policy, failing in every European country that embraced it.

Fortunately, we had Barack Obama, who didn't fall for it and opted for a nation-saving stimulus.

Yes, God knows printing $10,000,000,000,000 in new money saved us.

Between Dodd-Frank and Obamacare we should be swimming in money. Can't wait for that $2500/mo in savings on my health care policy to kick in.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

The reason they are in such a situation is the imposed austerity. It's another failed conservative policy, failing in every European country that embraced it.

Fortunately, we had Barack Obama, who didn't fall for it and opted for a nation-saving stimulus.

Yes, God knows printing $10,000,000,000,000 in new money saved us.

Between Dodd-Frank and Obamacare we should be swimming in money. Can't wait for that $2500/mo in savings on my health care policy to kick in.

Don't hold your breath.... we're Greece, it's just a matter of when.

 

[The Rabbi]

They're fucked. And they deserve every bit of it. After the Grexit, the first thing that needs to happen is the left wing fucks in office need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the Greeks should ask the Estonians to come in and set up a new government and economic system for them. Within 5 years Greece will be a prosperous country.

The reason they are in such a situation is the imposed austerity. It's another failed conservative policy, failing in every European country that embraced it.

Fortunately, we had Barack Obama, who didn't fall for it and opted for a nation-saving stimulus.

Yes, God knows printing $10,000,000,000,000 in new money saved us.

Between Dodd-Frank and Obamacare we should be swimming in money. Can't wait for that $2500/mo in savings on my health care policy to kick in.

Don't hold your breath.... we're Greece, it's just a matter of when.

There are significant differences but troubling similarities.

 

[bripat9643]

Wall Street greed and government largesse. A toxic cocktail.

What the fuck does Wall Street have to do with it?

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