Greastest Metal Bands/artists of all time

[Red Dawn]

That's the thing about a great band like Tull, it's hard to pigeon hole them into a particular genre. But they most definitely tread on metal grounds......

[youtube]Q1TDN67ibdo[/youtube]

No band that has a flute, is remotely metal!

That's a prerequisite for metal. No flutes.

And at least handfull of songs about the Devil.

I disagree on the flute thing. I think it's the style of music that defines the musical style. Not the instruments. And they do have a few songs about the devil.

I'm just giving you a hard time dude.

I hung with the die hard metal crowd back in the day, and it was universally accepted that Tull wasn't metal. Nor, are flutes.

But everybody has their own opinion. Sabbath got cut slack because they started it all and they had credibility.

 

[Dis]

WTF.....Tull METAL??.....thats like saying Iron Maiden is country....

That's the thing about a great band like Tull, it's hard to pigeon hole them into a particular genre. But they most definitely tread on metal grounds......

[youtube]Q1TDN67ibdo[/youtube]

No band that has a flute, is remotely metal!

That's a prerequisite for metal. No flutes.

And at least handfull of songs about the Devil.

Wrong. Trans-Siberian Orchestra uses flutes, and they're consiidered metal. (Ok, so they're only around at Christmas time as far as I know, but that's beside the point. Definitely metal. Definitely flutes.)

 

[manifold]

No band that has a flute, is remotely metal!

That's a prerequisite for metal. No flutes.

And at least handfull of songs about the Devil.

I disagree on the flute thing. I think it's the style of music that defines the musical style. Not the instruments. And they do have a few songs about the devil.

I'm just giving you a hard time dude.

I hung with the die hard metal crowd back in the day, and it was universally accepted that Tull wasn't metal. Nor, are flutes.

But everybody has their own opinion. Sabbath got cut slack because they started it all and they had credibility.

Oh I know. I don't really have an oar in the water on this one, I'm just glad to get a few people talking about my favorite band.

And btw, it is true that Tony Iommi was briefly a member of Tull before joining Black Sabbath. And as much as I love Sabbath, I don't think Iommi is anything spectacular. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward on the other hand... define the Sabbath sound!

 

[manifold]

You have to "wait" for the "metal" to "kick in"?

LOL!

Sorry, Mani, but...c'mon. It either is, or is not.

There are several Black Sabbath tunes with acoustic segments. So I guess that makes them not metal by your standards.

Don't make that face at me. With Sabbath you have to wait for the parts that aren't metal. Overall, they are metal. Overall, Tull is not metal (and is icky.)

I agree that they're not a metal band, never said they were. I said they tread on metal ground.

And fwiw: Even though they're my favorite band, I too think the heavy metal grammy was a joke. And so does Ian by the way. I've heard him laughing his ass off about it in interviews, but mostly because of Lar's reaction.

 

[Dis]

There are several Black Sabbath tunes with acoustic segments. So I guess that makes them not metal by your standards.

Don't make that face at me. With Sabbath you have to wait for the parts that aren't metal. Overall, they are metal. Overall, Tull is not metal (and is icky.)

I agree that they're not a metal band, never said they were. I said they tread on metal ground.

And fwiw: Even though they're my favorite band, I too think the heavy metal grammy was a joke. And so does Ian by the way. I've heard him laughing his ass off about it in interviews, but mostly because of Lar's reaction.

More like trip over it in one of their drug induced fogs on their way to score some munchies.

 

[Red Dawn]

I disagree on the flute thing. I think it's the style of music that defines the musical style. Not the instruments. And they do have a few songs about the devil.

I'm just giving you a hard time dude.

I hung with the die hard metal crowd back in the day, and it was universally accepted that Tull wasn't metal. Nor, are flutes.

But everybody has their own opinion. Sabbath got cut slack because they started it all and they had credibility.

Oh I know. I don't really have an oar in the water on this one, I'm just glad to get a few people talking about my favorite band.

And btw, it is true that Tony Iommi was briefly a member of Tull before joining Black Sabbath. And as much as I love Sabbath, I don't think Iommi is anything spectacular. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward on the other hand... define the Sabbath sound!

I can dig it that you're into tull.

Don't you dare diss Iommi! That dude is revered as the King of metal guitar. He ain't no Eddie Van Halen, but I guarantee you he was more influential than Van Halen or Jimmy Page. Metallica, Antrax, the Judas Priest boys, Nirvana,....they all stole theirchops from Iommi.

 

[Dis]

I'm just giving you a hard time dude.

I hung with the die hard metal crowd back in the day, and it was universally accepted that Tull wasn't metal. Nor, are flutes.

But everybody has their own opinion. Sabbath got cut slack because they started it all and they had credibility.

Oh I know. I don't really have an oar in the water on this one, I'm just glad to get a few people talking about my favorite band.

And btw, it is true that Tony Iommi was briefly a member of Tull before joining Black Sabbath. And as much as I love Sabbath, I don't think Iommi is anything spectacular. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward on the other hand... define the Sabbath sound!

I can dig it that you're into tull.

Don't you dare diss Iommi! That dude is revered as the King of metal guitar. He ain't no Eddie Van Halen, but I guarantee you he was more influential than Van Halen or Jimmy Page. Metallica, Antrax, the Judas Priest boys, Nirvana,....they all stole theirchops from Iommi.

Eh? Show me one list where Iommi is even in the top 3, much less labeled the "king" of metal guitar. Practically nobody even remembers he exists...

 

[Red Dawn]

Oh I know. I don't really have an oar in the water on this one, I'm just glad to get a few people talking about my favorite band.

And btw, it is true that Tony Iommi was briefly a member of Tull before joining Black Sabbath. And as much as I love Sabbath, I don't think Iommi is anything spectacular. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward on the other hand... define the Sabbath sound!

I can dig it that you're into tull.

Don't you dare diss Iommi! That dude is revered as the King of metal guitar. He ain't no Eddie Van Halen, but I guarantee you he was more influential than Van Halen or Jimmy Page. Metallica, Antrax, the Judas Priest boys, Nirvana,....they all stole theirchops from Iommi.

Eh? Show me one list where Iommi is even in the top 3, much less labeled the "king" of metal guitar. Practically nobody even remembers he exists...

i know you're garden variety metal fan doesn't know much about Iommi.

I'm talking about actual metal guitar players. They revere Iommi. I'm sure James Hetfield would put Iommi up there as one of his top guitar influences.

 

[Shogun]

I disagree on the flute thing. I think it's the style of music that defines the musical style. Not the instruments. And they do have a few songs about the devil.

there are some ver melodic metal bands that use flute sounds so, you are right, it's not so much about the particular instrument as the style. Nothing in JTs entire catalog is metal.

How well versed are you in Tull's entire catalog?

And again, I know it's not easy to do, but try to put into words what makes a piece of music metal. If anyone can do it, you can.

Let's put it this way.. I've never heard a single Tuyll song that made me stop and think how metal it is. I'm willing to listen to every suggestion yu can find but, IMO, Tull is not anything close to metal.


JT is strait up progressive classic rock. Now, sometimes classic rock and metal share similar qualities because they are both based on the blues and pentatonic scales... If you come to a different conclusion then mine the so be it.. But, I will give you this example:

Has JT ever used a riff that is essentially nothing more than single tone (generally in A or E) 8th or 16th notes? This may sound silly on the surface but you'll hear this same pattern in a lot of songs that can be labeled metal. for example:

When the lyrics kick in.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aIhh9nFYv4&feature=related]YouTube - Black Sabbath Paranoid[/ame]

Notice the beginning of this song
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_WZkCgeXWk]YouTube - Cowboys From Hell - Pantera[/ame]

The entire chorus is a variation of this metal theme
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Snehl2bAk]YouTube - Iron Maiden: Run to the Hills[/ame]

if you listen closely, 2:12 at the refrain
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxEd6Rqaixk]YouTube - Cannibal Corpse - Mummified in Barbed Wire[/ame]

almost the entire song is nothing but fast 8th notes that BARELY stray from the root E.
edit - triplets in 6/8.. my bad. same effect though.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZLfZkXYsp0]YouTube - anthrax - Belly of the Beast - Persistence of Time[/ame]


I think it's also important to remember that the term "metal" was not used to describe what eventually became metal in the 70s. Even Black Sabbath called their sound "Doom Rock" based on the lyric content and minor key signatures. They didn't look to start the genre that eventually became metal. Hell, you are right, a LOT of BS music is blues-tinged classic rock. However, their status as origin of the genre didn't dictate the direction of the sound that we have come to know as Metal any more than The Sugarhill Gang could have predicted Eminem.


All of this is wrapped up in Image too. I hate to reach for non-musical content but metal evolved out of blues -> rock -> punk and JT just never makes it past the punk of the late 70s. Often people forget that punk was the metal of the late 70s when they look back at who was the origin of Metal.


Ok. It's a friday.. enjoy the videos. If you disagree then fair enough and have a great weekend!

 

[Dis]

I can dig it that you're into tull.

Don't you dare diss Iommi! That dude is revered as the King of metal guitar. He ain't no Eddie Van Halen, but I guarantee you he was more influential than Van Halen or Jimmy Page. Metallica, Antrax, the Judas Priest boys, Nirvana,....they all stole theirchops from Iommi.

Eh? Show me one list where Iommi is even in the top 3, much less labeled the "king" of metal guitar. Practically nobody even remembers he exists...

i know you're garden variety metal fan doesn't know much about Iommi.

I'm talking about actual metal guitar players. They revere Iommi. I'm sure James Hetfield would put Iommi up there as one of his top guitar influences.

Actually, he identified Aerosmith as his main reason for wanting to play guitar. *shrug*.

 

[Red Dawn]

Eh? Show me one list where Iommi is even in the top 3, much less labeled the "king" of metal guitar. Practically nobody even remembers he exists...

i know you're garden variety metal fan doesn't know much about Iommi.

I'm talking about actual metal guitar players. They revere Iommi. I'm sure James Hetfield would put Iommi up there as one of his top guitar influences.

Actually, he identified Aerosmith as his main reason for wanting to play guitar. *shrug*.

But when hetfield developed the metallica sound, is was a direct derivative of Tony Iommi.

Not Joe Perry.


Anyone who's listened to "Dude Looks like a Lady" by aerosmith, versus "War Pigs" and "Paranoid" by sabbath understands this.

 

[Harry Dresden]

And btw, it is true that Tony Iommi was briefly a member of Tull before joining Black Sabbath. And as much as I love Sabbath, I don't think Iommi is anything spectacular. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward on the other hand... define the Sabbath sound!

i find it hard that you can say this when the guitar is their sound.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

There are several Black Sabbath tunes with acoustic segments. So I guess that makes them not metal by your standards.

Don't make that face at me. With Sabbath you have to wait for the parts that aren't metal. Overall, they are metal. Overall, Tull is not metal (and is icky.)

I agree that they're not a metal band, never said they were. I said they tread on metal ground.

And fwiw: Even though they're my favorite band, I too think the heavy metal grammy was a joke. And so does Ian by the way. I've heard him laughing his ass off about it in interviews, but mostly because of Lar's reaction.

but i notice he accepted the joke....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Eh? Show me one list where Iommi is even in the top 3, much less labeled the "king" of metal guitar. Practically nobody even remembers he exists...

Dis.....do you know what are talking about?......i have just got through looking at handful of list so i could post the one i posted in the 100 greatest guitar list......and lo and behold this "FORGOTTEN" guitar player was in the top 30 of EVERY list.....people who know ROCK GUITAR,know who Tommy Iommi is......

 

[Harry Dresden]

i know you're garden variety metal fan doesn't know much about Iommi.

I'm talking about actual metal guitar players. They revere Iommi. I'm sure James Hetfield would put Iommi up there as one of his top guitar influences.

Actually, he identified Aerosmith as his main reason for wanting to play guitar. *shrug*.

But when hetfield developed the metallica sound, is was a direct derivative of Tony Iommi.

Not Joe Perry.


Anyone who's listened to "Dude Looks like a Lady" by aerosmith, versus "War Pigs" and "Paranoid" by sabbath understands this.

this from Wiki.......


James identifies Aerosmith as having been his main musical influence as a child, and has said that they were the reason why he wanted to play guitar. Other bands such as Motörhead, Black Sabbath, Diamond Head, Iron Maiden, Queen, Led Zeppelin and Thin Lizzy also had a major influence on his musical tastes.[3]



i saw him on Vh-1 talking and he said.....and this came right from his mouth.....Aerosmith was a favorite band at the time,mid 70's and got him into playing guitar and wanting a band....BUT....Tommy Iommi and Sabbath were his metal gods...THATS what he wanted to play......thin lizzy also was a band he listened too quite a bit......there you have it.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

there are some ver melodic metal bands that use flute sounds so, you are right, it's not so much about the particular instrument as the style. Nothing in JTs entire catalog is metal.

How well versed are you in Tull's entire catalog?

And again, I know it's not easy to do, but try to put into words what makes a piece of music metal. If anyone can do it, you can.

Let's put it this way.. I've never heard a single Tuyll song that made me stop and think how metal it is. I'm willing to listen to every suggestion yu can find but, IMO, Tull is not anything close to metal.


JT is strait up progressive classic rock. Now, sometimes classic rock and metal share similar qualities because they are both based on the blues and pentatonic scales... If you come to a different conclusion then mine the so be it.. But, I will give you this example:

Has JT ever used a riff that is essentially nothing more than single tone (generally in A or E) 8th or 16th notes? This may sound silly on the surface but you'll hear this same pattern in a lot of songs that can be labeled metal. for example:

When the lyrics kick in.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aIhh9nFYv4&feature=related]YouTube - Black Sabbath Paranoid[/ame]

Notice the beginning of this song
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_WZkCgeXWk]YouTube - Cowboys From Hell - Pantera[/ame]

The entire chorus is a variation of this metal theme
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Snehl2bAk]YouTube - Iron Maiden: Run to the Hills[/ame]

if you listen closely, 2:12 at the refrain
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxEd6Rqaixk]YouTube - Cannibal Corpse - Mummified in Barbed Wire[/ame]

almost the entire song is nothing but fast 8th notes that BARELY stray from the root E.
edit - triplets in 6/8.. my bad. same effect though.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZLfZkXYsp0]YouTube - anthrax - Belly of the Beast - Persistence of Time[/ame]


I think it's also important to remember that the term "metal" was not used to describe what eventually became metal in the 70s. Even Black Sabbath called their sound "Doom Rock" based on the lyric content and minor key signatures. They didn't look to start the genre that eventually became metal. Hell, you are right, a LOT of BS music is blues-tinged classic rock. However, their status as origin of the genre didn't dictate the direction of the sound that we have come to know as Metal any more than The Sugarhill Gang could have predicted Eminem.


All of this is wrapped up in Image too. I hate to reach for non-musical content but metal evolved out of blues -> rock -> punk and JT just never makes it past the punk of the late 70s. Often people forget that punk was the metal of the late 70s when they look back at who was the origin of Metal.


Ok. It's a friday.. enjoy the videos. If you disagree then fair enough and have a great weekend!

thanks for the lesson Prof......i agree Tull is as metal as Judas Priest is country rock.....

 

[manifold]

Don't make that face at me. With Sabbath you have to wait for the parts that aren't metal. Overall, they are metal. Overall, Tull is not metal (and is icky.)

I agree that they're not a metal band, never said they were. I said they tread on metal ground.

And fwiw: Even though they're my favorite band, I too think the heavy metal grammy was a joke. And so does Ian by the way. I've heard him laughing his ass off about it in interviews, but mostly because of Lar's reaction.

but i notice he accepted the joke....

Not in person. They didn't have anyone there to accept the award. That's part of what made it embarrassing to the grammy people.

 

[manifold]

And btw, it is true that Tony Iommi was briefly a member of Tull before joining Black Sabbath. And as much as I love Sabbath, I don't think Iommi is anything spectacular. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward on the other hand... define the Sabbath sound!

i find it hard that you can say this when the guitar is their sound.....

 

[manifold]

Eh? Show me one list where Iommi is even in the top 3, much less labeled the "king" of metal guitar. Practically nobody even remembers he exists...

Dis.....do you know what are talking about?......i have just got through looking at handful of list so i could post the one i posted in the 100 greatest guitar list......and lo and behold this "FORGOTTEN" guitar player was in the top 30 of EVERY list.....people who know ROCK GUITAR,know who Tommy Iommi is......

Is he related to Tony?

 

[Dr. T. Sanchez]

Black Sabbath
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Rainbow
Deep Purple
AC/DC
Dio
Ozzy Osbourne
Motorhead
Metallica
Megadeth
Queensryche
Mudvayne
Rob Zombie
Ted Nugent