Coloradomtnman
Rational and proud of it.
The Preamble of the Constitution of this country reads:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The Declaration of Independence, in its opening, reads:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Lincoln, in the closing of the Gettysburg Address, said, We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines democracy as:
a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
It seems to me that if you read the bolded sections of the above, it is clear that we live in a nation that practices, and even holds sacred: SELF RULE.
And I think that none of us here on USMB, who aren't conspiracy nuts or other types of crazy, would argue with that.
However, it seems that with some conservatives, they sometimes forget this. It seems, and let me just stress that I wrote it seems, that they feel (and yes I am painting with a broad brush) that our government is a separate entity made up of outsiders.
I hear some conservative leaders and followers say things like:
Government is the problem.
The government is stealing (or taking) MY money.
Get government out of (my life), (business), etc.
But, ironically, conservatives make up the government. Maybe less of them do now than they use to, but they are no less excluded from self rule as any other US citizen.
The government set up by the Constitution of the United States is a tool that this society, in general, uses to "insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".
But, some conservatives seem think of the government as the "Other" or the enemy.
Apparently, because of this, one symptom some conservative suffer is that they redefine taxation as "stealing". The most basic argument to this is: How can one steal from one self. But the more pragmatic argument would be: In order to have a government at all, WE have to fund it. And since WE are the government, and WE continue to live in this nation, WE agree to continue to fund it. If one doesn't like how much we pay in taxes, then that citizen should effect the change they wish (or - and much less reasonably - move to a country with lower taxes - good luck immigrating!). So, instead, one should vote for representatives who share their opinion on the matter.
Conservatives do just that, but then some (or most) complain when taxes don't go down. Why? Because there are other people who live in this country, and they are also THE PEOPLE who rule. But to some conservatives, it would seem, those other people who rule don't do so legitimately or, and maybe this is closer to their true opinions: those people aren't legitimate (in whatever way - most notably birtherism) and therefore don't have the right to self rule in this country. Or we hear some conservatives demagogue liberal positions with false statements or untrue accusations like:
Liberals believe government is the answer (solution).
Liberals want big government.
The government is the center of the liberal universe.
Liberals don't believe this (except for a few, fringe loonies) no matter how much some conservatives think or want to believe liberals, as a whole, do. Liberals want smart government, effective government, agile government - in other words: limited government.
They don't want government in their bedrooms or personal lives, either. Liberals want to use government, just like conservatives, to effect change that they want.
Now, is there an equivalency on the left to demagogue conservative positions on government? Yes, undoubtedly. I think, however, the left does it to a SIGNIFICANTLY, lesser degree. And what I mean by significantly lesser, is that liberals want to use the tool of government and some conservatives seem to want to break government to show how useless a tool it is.
That position seems untenable because how can one rule oneself if the form in which one does it is, by its very nature, illegitimate? That is, I think, a paradox.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The Declaration of Independence, in its opening, reads:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Lincoln, in the closing of the Gettysburg Address, said, We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines democracy as:
a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
It seems to me that if you read the bolded sections of the above, it is clear that we live in a nation that practices, and even holds sacred: SELF RULE.
And I think that none of us here on USMB, who aren't conspiracy nuts or other types of crazy, would argue with that.
However, it seems that with some conservatives, they sometimes forget this. It seems, and let me just stress that I wrote it seems, that they feel (and yes I am painting with a broad brush) that our government is a separate entity made up of outsiders.
I hear some conservative leaders and followers say things like:
Government is the problem.
The government is stealing (or taking) MY money.
Get government out of (my life), (business), etc.
But, ironically, conservatives make up the government. Maybe less of them do now than they use to, but they are no less excluded from self rule as any other US citizen.
The government set up by the Constitution of the United States is a tool that this society, in general, uses to "insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".
But, some conservatives seem think of the government as the "Other" or the enemy.
Apparently, because of this, one symptom some conservative suffer is that they redefine taxation as "stealing". The most basic argument to this is: How can one steal from one self. But the more pragmatic argument would be: In order to have a government at all, WE have to fund it. And since WE are the government, and WE continue to live in this nation, WE agree to continue to fund it. If one doesn't like how much we pay in taxes, then that citizen should effect the change they wish (or - and much less reasonably - move to a country with lower taxes - good luck immigrating!). So, instead, one should vote for representatives who share their opinion on the matter.
Conservatives do just that, but then some (or most) complain when taxes don't go down. Why? Because there are other people who live in this country, and they are also THE PEOPLE who rule. But to some conservatives, it would seem, those other people who rule don't do so legitimately or, and maybe this is closer to their true opinions: those people aren't legitimate (in whatever way - most notably birtherism) and therefore don't have the right to self rule in this country. Or we hear some conservatives demagogue liberal positions with false statements or untrue accusations like:
Liberals believe government is the answer (solution).
Liberals want big government.
The government is the center of the liberal universe.
Liberals don't believe this (except for a few, fringe loonies) no matter how much some conservatives think or want to believe liberals, as a whole, do. Liberals want smart government, effective government, agile government - in other words: limited government.
They don't want government in their bedrooms or personal lives, either. Liberals want to use government, just like conservatives, to effect change that they want.
Now, is there an equivalency on the left to demagogue conservative positions on government? Yes, undoubtedly. I think, however, the left does it to a SIGNIFICANTLY, lesser degree. And what I mean by significantly lesser, is that liberals want to use the tool of government and some conservatives seem to want to break government to show how useless a tool it is.
That position seems untenable because how can one rule oneself if the form in which one does it is, by its very nature, illegitimate? That is, I think, a paradox.
