Government Should Teach Traditional Values

PoliticalChic

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If you get your impressions from the Old Left Media, the following Gallup poll may come
as a shock!

This Gallup poll certainly came as a surprise to me...

In terms of expressing the view that view that government should do what it can to promote traditional values in society guess which age group showed the highest support!!!

C'mon....guess!


"In most of Gallup's Governance surveys from 2001 through 2010, older generations of Americans were more likely than those in Generations X or Y to say they want government to sanction and protect traditional values. However, the percentage of young adults -- aged 18 to 34 -- who want government to promote traditional values has been steadily increasing in recent years, rising from 38% in 2008 to 53% today."
As a result -- and owing to declines in older adults' support for government's promoting traditional values -- young adults are now the most likely to favor it.
Americans Divided on Gov't Role in Promoting Values


Meaning???
The end is near for the Left!


Hallelujah!!
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

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False.

But please keep pacifying yourself with that type of reasoning if it helps.
False???

Gallup poll is false?

Younger folks catching on to the Left-wing drivel that government schools teach, is that false?

Nah, what is false is the rumor that you scored higher on the SAT's than Horshak.

It's impossible to believe the sperm that created you, beat out 1,000,000 others.
 

Mad Scientist

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The gov't shouldn't be in the business of teaching any kind of values, that's for the parents to do. The gov't should be in the business of protecting our nation and our rights and civil liberties as individuals, nothing more.
 
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Foxfyre

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If you get your impressions from the Old Left Media, the following Gallup poll may come
as a shock!

This Gallup poll certainly came as a surprise to me...

In terms of expressing the view that view that government should do what it can to promote traditional values in society guess which age group showed the highest support!!!

C'mon....guess!


"In most of Gallup's Governance surveys from 2001 through 2010, older generations of Americans were more likely than those in Generations X or Y to say they want government to sanction and protect traditional values. However, the percentage of young adults -- aged 18 to 34 -- who want government to promote traditional values has been steadily increasing in recent years, rising from 38% in 2008 to 53% today."
As a result -- and owing to declines in older adults' support for government's promoting traditional values -- young adults are now the most likely to favor it.
Americans Divided on Gov't Role in Promoting Values


Meaning???
The end is near for the Left!


Hallelujah!!
Throughout human history are accounts of those who were able to reason over and above the conventional wisdom of their peers and promote a more accurate truth.

While I want government out of all forms of social engineering, it is encouraging that maybe humankind is still able to reason over and above the conventional wisdom of their peers. If we have Americans returning to their Classical Liberal roots, again appreciating our unique and exceptional American history, roots, culture, borders, and values that have withstood the test of time, that is a breath of fresh air and very encouraging to me.

Maybe even the deplorable and unconscionable public education system has not been able to brainwash all the young and there are some still able to think and do critical reasoning in spite of all that.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

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The gov't shouldn't be in the business of teaching any kind of values, that's for the parents to do. The gov't should be in the business of protecting our nationaand our rights and civil liberties as individuals, nothing more.
But they do.


1. Here, from the NYTimes:
Which is one reason “The Story of Stuff,” a 20-minute video about the effects of human consumption, has become a sleeper hit in classrooms across the nation.
Video Warning of Pitfalls of Consumption Is a Hit in Schools - NYTimes.com

2. You should take a look at what is being shown in classrooms:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GorqroigqM]The Story of Stuff - YouTube[/ame]


Anti-capitalism, anti-growth, anti-prosperity.....
"some people in this system matter a little more than others"
....sure isn't traditional values being taught...


...which brings me to #3:

Proof that they've won over some 'kids'?
Occupy Wall Street.


And that's why the Gallup poll in the OP is such amazing good news.
 

Jackson

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The problem is you may have to define "traditional values" to some. I doubt if we all come up with the same answers.
 
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Government is not responsible for teaching whatever you believe " traditional values " might be,
but they sure and hell should lead by example and I have yet to see this principle being practiced,
by anybody in public imagery, or by those of previous generations.
 

Jackson

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Schools have to go back 60 years to become successful as they once were. Teach the basics. Reading, Writing, 'Rithmetic, Geography, History of the US, History of the World, Civics, Literature.

Stop with the calculators. Do not introduce computers until the 3rd grade when foundations of the basics have been mastered. Homework each night. No open book tests.

Expect parent involvement. Expect the children to meet grade level requirements and let parents know there will be NO SOCIAL PROMOTIONS. Parents have no say in the advancement of their child to the next grade. A child can fail a grade twice in the primary and twice in the intermediate/high school. Psychological testing is required if the student cannot meet the requirements after that time.

Students cannot quit school until their 18th birthday.

If a student is suspended, they receive failing marks for that day's work without an opportunity to make up the work.

Students with truancy problems or not turning in homework will have parents show up with the their child at a hearing with a school hearing officer to determine what fines, penalties will be earned.

No more foolishess.

Alternative schools will be available for those who conduct is dangerous to others with uniformed guards on site.

Parents will learn to be responsible one way or another. Court help will be available.

Make public schools as good as the private schools. That's what we want.
 
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FurthurBB

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Schools have to go back 60 years to become successful as they once were. Teach the basics. Reading, Writing, 'Rithmetic, Geography, History of the US, History of the World, Civics, Literature.

Stop with the calculators. Do not introduce computers until the 3rd grade when foundations of the basics have been mastered. Homework each night. No open book tests.

Expect parent involvement. Expect the children to meet grade level requirements and let parents know there will be NO SOCIAL PROMOTIONS. Parents have no say in the advancement of their child to the next grade. A child can fail a grade twice in the primary and twice in the intermediate/high school. Psychological testing is required if the student cannot meet the requirements after that time.

Students cannot quit school until their 18th birthday.

If a student is suspended, they receive failing marks for that day's work without an opportunity to make up the work.

Students with truancy problems or not turning in homework will have parents show up with the their child at a hearing with a school hearing officer to determine what fines, penalties will be earned.

No more foolishess.

Alternative schools will be available for those who conduct is dangerous to others with uniformed guards on site.

Parents will learn to be responsible one way or another. Court help will be available.

Make public schools as good as the private schools. That's what we want.
Ahhh if it were only that simple. The problem is 60 years ago we were the only country with good public education. If we went back to teach what we taught even when I was in school, we would just fall further behind. My children are taught so much more than I ever learned and sometimes my students teach me things I never learned. When I got my degree, we knew nothing about innate immunity, my daughter learned more in high school about innate immunity than was known when I was still going to school. Unfortunately, simplistic ideas are seldom the answer. Oh, and the public school my daughter goes to is better than 98% of all private schools.
 

Foxfyre

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The problem is you may have to define "traditional values" to some. I doubt if we all come up with the same answers.
And that is precisely why government/schools should not be teaching or advancing 'values' other than basic integrity. The values of many, if not most, educators today is alternate lifestyles, condoning teen pregnancy and abortion, discouraging parental rights, denigrating or promoting tradiitonal marriage as no longer important, promoting unisex, devaluing the good of our national history in order to emphasize the negatives, making it clear that God or any form of traditional religion must be kept out of sight and mind unless it is Buddhism or Islam or Paganism which can be expressed and accommodated.

When I was in the public schools long ago, the only traditional values promoted--not taught but promoted--by the schools was ethics (i.e. tell the truth, don't cheat, play fair, afford respect for parents, teachers and other authority, speak civilly, obey the law, and expect to work and honorably earn what you get) and also patriotism--respect and pride in our national exceptionalism, God, family, flag, country, and a Constitution that recognizes individual liberties as no nation has ever done. I don't see much of that being promoted these days.
 

Disir

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Schools have to go back 60 years to become successful as they once were. Teach the basics. Reading, Writing, 'Rithmetic, Geography, History of the US, History of the World, Civics, Literature.

Stop with the calculators. Do not introduce computers until the 3rd grade when foundations of the basics have been mastered. Homework each night. No open book tests.

Expect parent involvement. Expect the children to meet grade level requirements and let parents know there will be NO SOCIAL PROMOTIONS. Parents have no say in the advancement of their child to the next grade. A child can fail a grade twice in the primary and twice in the intermediate/high school. Psychological testing is required if the student cannot meet the requirements after that time.

Students cannot quit school until their 18th birthday.

If a student is suspended, they receive failing marks for that day's work without an opportunity to make up the work.

Students with truancy problems or not turning in homework will have parents show up with the their child at a hearing with a school hearing officer to determine what fines, penalties will be earned.

No more foolishess.

Alternative schools will be available for those who conduct is dangerous to others with uniformed guards on site.

Parents will learn to be responsible one way or another. Court help will be available.

Make public schools as good as the private schools. That's what we want.
Are you sure that you want to go back 60 years? 60 years ago there was only a 50% graduation rate. Many of the students that go to school now, because of disabilities, would never have attended school then.

Alternative schools are already available and already have guards. In fact, most of mainstream high schools have "school resource officers". This is why there are so many people that are over the zero tolerance in the education system.

25 years ago, if you were bullied, then you could confront your bully and walk away. Today, you are both arrested for battery. You may find the report School to Prison Pipeline, which is available on line, useful here. I don't know of any students that allow you to make up for the days that you have been suspended. I'm sure that they exist, but no where around here.

The courts are already involved in Truancy. In fact, your child can be taken away from you because it constitutes educational neglect.

Forcing kids to stay in school until they turn 18..........what happens if they are in a state that considers them an adult at 17. How would that work? Truancy is a status offense.

If you have a child that is failing and regular tutoring cannot help, it would be wise to have them tested early on. A child with comprehension problems is going to have different needs than a child with one of the 500 types of dyslexia.

Homework that reinforces what is learned or allows them to go a bit further is fine. As busy work? I think we are all good.

So, since you already have most of what you want, does this alter your stance?
 
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Wry Catcher

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What are the traditional values of our nation? Bigotry and slavery were two, a manifest destiny to annihilate the indigenous people of North America another. Child labor, low wages and unsafe working conditions, polluting our air and water and economic panics on a regular basis. Woman denied the franchise to vote and sectional rivalry; and a civil war and a life of labor ending one day in a poor house.
 

Foxfyre

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Schools have to go back 60 years to become successful as they once were. Teach the basics. Reading, Writing, 'Rithmetic, Geography, History of the US, History of the World, Civics, Literature.

Stop with the calculators. Do not introduce computers until the 3rd grade when foundations of the basics have been mastered. Homework each night. No open book tests.

Expect parent involvement. Expect the children to meet grade level requirements and let parents know there will be NO SOCIAL PROMOTIONS. Parents have no say in the advancement of their child to the next grade. A child can fail a grade twice in the primary and twice in the intermediate/high school. Psychological testing is required if the student cannot meet the requirements after that time.

Students cannot quit school until their 18th birthday.

If a student is suspended, they receive failing marks for that day's work without an opportunity to make up the work.

Students with truancy problems or not turning in homework will have parents show up with the their child at a hearing with a school hearing officer to determine what fines, penalties will be earned.

No more foolishess.

Alternative schools will be available for those who conduct is dangerous to others with uniformed guards on site.

Parents will learn to be responsible one way or another. Court help will be available.

Make public schools as good as the private schools. That's what we want.
Are you sure that you want to go back 60 years? 60 years ago there was only a 50% graduation rate. Many of the students that go to school now, because of disabilities, would never have attended school then.

Alternative schools are already available and already have guards. In fact, most of mainstream high schools have "school resource officers". This is why there are so many people that are over the zero tolerance in the education system.

25 years ago, if you were bullied, then you could confront your bully and walk away. Today, you are both arrested for battery. You may find the report School to Prison Pipeline, which is available on line, useful here. I don't know of any students that allow you to make up for the days that you have been suspended. I'm sure that they exist, but no where around here.

The courts are already involved in Truancy. In fact, your child can be taken away from you because it constitutes educational neglect.

Forcing kids to stay in school until they turn 18..........what happens if they are in a state that considers them an adult at 17. How would that work? Truancy is a status offense.

If you have a child that is failing and regular tutoring cannot help, it would be wise to have them tested early on. A child with comprehension problems is going to have different needs than a child with one of the 500 types of dyslexia.

Homework that reinforces what is learned or allows them to go a bit further is fine. As busy work? I think we are all good.

So, since you already have most of what you want, does this alter your stance?
In 1950, highschool graduates could read, write, do essential math, knew some history, geography, science, and generally had one or more marketable skills. These days a highschool graduate can be functionally illiterate. That would never have happened in the 1950's.

The high school graduation rate is a barometer of the health of American society and the skill level of its future workforce. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, each new cohort of Americans was more likely to graduate from high school than the preceding one. This upward trend in secondary education increased worker productivity and fueled American economic growth .1

In the past 25 years, growing wage differentials between high school graduates and dropouts increased the economic incentives for high school graduation. The real wages of high school dropouts have declined since the early 1970s while those of more skilled workers have risen sharply.2 Heckman, Lochner, and Todd 3 show that in recent decades, the internal rate of return to graduating from high school versus dropping out has increased dramatically and is now above 50 percent. Therefore, it is surprising and disturbing that, at a time when the premium for skills has increased and the return to high school graduation has risen, the high school dropout rate in America is increasing. America is becoming a polarized society. Proportionately more American youth are going to college and graduating than ever before. At the same time, proportionately more are failing to complete high school.

http://www.nber.org/reporter/2008number1/heckman.html

While the National Center for Educational Statistics reports that the rate of US high school graduation has been steadily increasing, according to a new report by James J. Heckman and Paul A. LaFontaine, it has actually declined for the last 40 years. It peaked at 80% for those born in 1950 and the most current data shows a graduation rate of just 75% (click on the graph above for a larger version).

The report details all the reason for the differences in the numbers, but the key one is that the NCES counts those who get GEDs as graduating while Heckman and LaFontaine don't. They exclude GEDs because:

Although GED recipients have the same measured academic ability as high school graduates who do not attend college, they have the economic and social outcomes of otherwise similar dropouts without certification.
Fat Knowledge: US High School Graduation Rate Peaked 40 Years Ago
In the 1950's the HS graduation rate was around 82%
http://ftp.iza.org/dp3216.pdf

I would happily go back to the public school system of the 1940's and 50's. It was far, far, FAR superior to what kids now get in the public schools now. And if you add in the modern science labs, computers, and other perks that kids have now, many of those 1950's graduates would have educations equivalent to today's master's degrees.
 
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Foxfyre

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The fact is over the decades, school children have been increasingly indoctrinated with the concept that their God and their religion is not welcome in the public schools. A teacher is discouraged from including ANY religious music in a school concert which means the children will not be exposed to many works of great masters such as Bach, Handel, Mendelsshohn. Even if one or two traditional Christmas carols is included, a teacher can be fire for including one too many. In fact Christmas is no longer tolerated in most places. The traditional student led generic prayers at school assemblies, football games, and other events have disappeared from most of the American scene. Schools no longer have a Baccalaureate service which was a highlight of graduation for most of us in my day--the first chance we had to wear our cap and gown.

This is one of various ways that government is imposing its own form of social engineering on the school kids. The Founders are no doubt rolling in their graves and crying out that this is happening.
 

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The fact is over the decades, school children have been increasingly indoctrinated with the concept that their God and their religion is not welcome in the public schools. A teacher is discouraged from including ANY religious music in a school concert which means the children will not be exposed to many works of great masters such as Bach, Handel, Mendelsshohn. Even if one or two traditional Christmas carols is included, a teacher can be fire for including one too many. In fact Christmas is no longer tolerated in most places. The traditional student led generic prayers at school assemblies, football games, and other events have disappeared from most of the American scene. Schools no longer have a Baccalaureate service which was a highlight of graduation for most of us in my day--the first chance we had to wear our cap and gown.

This is one of various ways that government is imposing its own form of social engineering on the school kids. The Founders are no doubt rolling in their graves and crying out that this is happening.
:eusa_shhh:

I'm reading through the stuff on your last post-she says jokingly.

I'm sorry that the first amendment is bothersome. We have Christmas carols at my sons school, in fact, no one is left out. Bach, Handel, Mendelsshohnn have a greater chance of being known if the parent knows them. We grew up with that and, therefore, my son grows up with it. However, if the parent does not care for it or does not like this music then you actually have to wait for the kids to be old enough to be in a school with band. If you have a school that removes music then I guess they are doomed. Doomed, I say. Music is usually the first thing on the chopping block.

The Founders most definitely would not be rolling over in their graves. Their history, or their most recent history compared to those of us today, was the religious bloodshed in Europe. Elizabeth, Mary, William and Mary--the whole nine yards. Proselytizing is not allowed. Pray in the hallway and by the flag pole but not in the classroom. No, we aren't going to promote any one Christian sect over all others nor over students that do not believe in Christianity. If you want something more than you can always teach kids at home or take them into a private religious institution. You can teach about religion but you cannot teach religion. No, creationism is not a valid theory.
Christians are NOT persecuted in this country.
 
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Annie

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If you get your impressions from the Old Left Media, the following Gallup poll may come
as a shock!

This Gallup poll certainly came as a surprise to me...

In terms of expressing the view that view that government should do what it can to promote traditional values in society guess which age group showed the highest support!!!

C'mon....guess!


"In most of Gallup's Governance surveys from 2001 through 2010, older generations of Americans were more likely than those in Generations X or Y to say they want government to sanction and protect traditional values. However, the percentage of young adults -- aged 18 to 34 -- who want government to promote traditional values has been steadily increasing in recent years, rising from 38% in 2008 to 53% today."
As a result -- and owing to declines in older adults' support for government's promoting traditional values -- young adults are now the most likely to favor it.
Americans Divided on Gov't Role in Promoting Values


Meaning???
The end is near for the Left!


Hallelujah!!
I'm running off to work in a few minutes, don't have time to read through the thread, just the OP. Few times I disagree with your POV. This is one though, government's purpose should be to protect our rights and the homeland, not be 'model' in anything else. Most politicians are the most amoral folks around, which is their right in the private lives, but playing role model is not in the best interests of any of us. Nor should they pontificate how others should live their lives.

Keep government to its purpose, not in the bedrooms of the US.
 

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