GOP fought against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. But GOP policies started the "great debt".

[Vandalshandle]

We don't need no stinkin' Medicare, SS, and Medicaid. We need aircraft carriers! Lots, and lots of aircraft carriers! And multi billion dollar aircraft! And more and more military! And guns and cannon! I mean, what are we going to do if North Korea builds an aircraft carrier? True, it would take them a decade or two, and totally bankrupt the country, but what if? And do people realize that there is now fewer than 60 US military bases left in Germany? What the hell are we going to do if the NAZI's start up again?

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

 

[9aces]

The debts started with LBJ, Vietnam and the Great Society programs to create a permanent minority underclass

Kinda sorta. It really started with FDR, but I think you could honestly give him a pass on 1941-1946. WWII was very expensive, but had to be done. Prior to 1930, the government ran an actual surplus about half the time. Since then, you can count on the fingers of one hand since 1930 it's happened.

1947, 1948, 1951, 1956, 1957

That's it. In 1930 the national debt was just over 16 billion dollars. The last year we had an increase to the debt less than that? Looks like 1969, when the great stupidity was just getting going.

 

[9aces]

We don't need no stinkin' Medicare, SS, and Medicaid. We need aircraft carriers! Lots, and lots of aircraft carriers! And multi billion dollar aircraft! And more and more military! And guns and cannon! I mean, what are we going to do if North Korea builds an aircraft carrier? True, it would take them a decade or two, and totally bankrupt the country, but what if? And do people realize that there is now fewer than 60 US military bases left in Germany? What the hell are we going to do if the NAZI's start up again?

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

 

[Vandalshandle]

We don't need no stinkin' Medicare, SS, and Medicaid. We need aircraft carriers! Lots, and lots of aircraft carriers! And multi billion dollar aircraft! And more and more military! And guns and cannon! I mean, what are we going to do if North Korea builds an aircraft carrier? True, it would take them a decade or two, and totally bankrupt the country, but what if? And do people realize that there is now fewer than 60 US military bases left in Germany? What the hell are we going to do if the NAZI's start up again?

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

...and swords and shields! We need more swords and shields!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vandalshandle]

 

[9aces]

We don't need no stinkin' Medicare, SS, and Medicaid. We need aircraft carriers! Lots, and lots of aircraft carriers! And multi billion dollar aircraft! And more and more military! And guns and cannon! I mean, what are we going to do if North Korea builds an aircraft carrier? True, it would take them a decade or two, and totally bankrupt the country, but what if? And do people realize that there is now fewer than 60 US military bases left in Germany? What the hell are we going to do if the NAZI's start up again?

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

...and swords and shields! We need more swords and shields!!!!!!!!!

Your ignorance is impressive. I don't know when I've run across anyone less capable of formulating an intelligent response.

 

[Vandalshandle]

We don't need no stinkin' Medicare, SS, and Medicaid. We need aircraft carriers! Lots, and lots of aircraft carriers! And multi billion dollar aircraft! And more and more military! And guns and cannon! I mean, what are we going to do if North Korea builds an aircraft carrier? True, it would take them a decade or two, and totally bankrupt the country, but what if? And do people realize that there is now fewer than 60 US military bases left in Germany? What the hell are we going to do if the NAZI's start up again?

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

...and swords and shields! We need more swords and shields!!!!!!!!!

Your ignorance is impressive. I don't know when I've run across anyone less capable of formulating an intelligent response.

Don't blame me, blame Ike! Everything I know about the military industrial complex, I learned from him (well, also my cousin who was a full bird Colonel in the Quartermaster Corps., who told me when he retired that there was only one sin that the Army would not forgive, and that was NOT spending every dime in your budget by the end of the fiscal year, since that would guarantee a budget cut next year.

 

[baileyn45]

GOP fought tooth and nail against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security - the greatest anti poverty program in the history of the world.

Republicans said these programs will bankrupt the United States. That was their reason. The GOP insists they were fighting for fiscal sanity against the "tax and spend" Democrats.

Isn't it ironic that it was the Bush Tax Cuts that took us down the road to unsustainable deficits? First trillions in tax cuts that did not create jobs. Then the GOP helping business move millions of jobs overseas which led to the closings of tens of thousands of factories costing this country trillions more in revenue.

Then the fiscally sane GOP cut taxes by trillions while waging two wars costing even more trillions.

And they are so ashamed, they blame it on Obama. They aren't even man enough to stand up for what they did. This is why they have to be defeated. Who could vote for a party that is so wrong again and again. Any Republican who gets Social Security should be ashamed.

You can point to the trillions that you say the repubs have cost us and yet the very programs you cite have future unfunded liabilities by some estimates over 200 Trillion. I guess the repubs were right.

When it comes to shipping jobs overseas you're just plain wrong. I've been in mfg all my life and can honestly say the dems have waged war on us for the last 40+ years. It's impossible to get people on the left to acknowledge that adding new layers of regulation day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade has repercussions. We have always faced higher labor costs, energy costs, shipping costs, tax rates, the list goes on, than our foreign competition.
The constant never ending increase in regulatory burdens just added to manufacturing's demise.

So, it is the democrats' fault. It has nothing to do with management taking advantage of the fact that Mexican labor costs 1/5 th the cost of American labor?

Oh it has a lot to do with Mexicans making 1/5 of american workers, we have to try to compete against that. And that's just wages. Add SS, medicare, work comp, etc. Then on top of all that add a continually growing regulatory burden. And I do mean continually. People don't realize that in a small firm like mine I contract with multiple lawyers and ex-govt bureaucrats just find out what new regs come out. It would be utterly impossible for me to keep up on it all. OSHA, EPA, labor laws, healthcare, I could go on. Plus many of these have multiple layers, fed, state, county, local. It just never stops growing, ever.

Now on top of all that people don't realize just how ridiculous some of this stuff is. You've propbably never had the pleasure of trying to figure out a regulation dealing with heavy equipment written by a govt bureaucrat. Much of it is unintelligible, some is just plain wrong. Try telling that to the fed govt where your only recourse is to go in front of a judge who of course is a lawyer not an engineer and certainly not well versed on equipment that I know every nut and bolt.

In short this country is a frigging nightmare to run a business in. Even compared to Europe.

 

[Dot Com]

GOP fought tooth and nail against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security - the greatest anti poverty program in the history of the world.

Republicans said these programs will bankrupt the United States. That was their reason. The GOP insists they were fighting for fiscal sanity against the "tax and spend" Democrats.

Isn't it ironic that it was the Bush Tax Cuts that took us down the road to unsustainable deficits? First trillions in tax cuts that did not create jobs. Then the GOP helping business move millions of jobs overseas which led to the closings of tens of thousands of factories costing this country trillions more in revenue.

Then the fiscally sane GOP cut taxes by trillions while waging two wars costing even more trillions.

And they are so ashamed, they blame it on Obama. They aren't even man enough to stand up for what they did. This is why they have to be defeated. Who could vote for a party that is so wrong again and again. Any Republican who gets Social Security should be ashamed.

Very sad. One would think that blur collar rw'ers would say WTF?!!!

 

[9aces]

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

...and swords and shields! We need more swords and shields!!!!!!!!!

Your ignorance is impressive. I don't know when I've run across anyone less capable of formulating an intelligent response.

Don't blame me, blame Ike! Everything I know about the military industrial complex, I learned from him (well, also my cousin who was a full bird Colonel in the Quartermaster Corps., who told me when he retired that there was only one sin that the Army would not forgive, and that was NOT spending every dime in your budget by the end of the fiscal year, since that would guarantee a budget cut next year.

And whom is the accountability in said budget's responsibility?

You're blaming the wrong thing.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Wow not a word about how sad this is, these people are dead what 1 hour?...geeezzzzzz

If that is not the lamest excuse for the USA having a military budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, I don't know what is.

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

...and swords and shields! We need more swords and shields!!!!!!!!!

Your ignorance is impressive. I don't know when I've run across anyone less capable of formulating an intelligent response.

Don't blame me, blame Ike! Everything I know about the military industrial complex, I learned from him (well, also my cousin who was a full bird Colonel in the Quartermaster Corps., who told me when he retired that there was only one sin that the Army would not forgive, and that was NOT spending every dime in your budget by the end of the fiscal year, since that would guarantee a budget cut next year.

And whom is the accountability in said budget's responsibility?

You're blaming the wrong thing.

My cousin is really quite an intelligent guy. He went in to the Army as a buck private, had them finance his 2 masters degrees, and retired as a full colonel. He also told me that the armed forces lives for war, and that if they can find one that they can talk the government in joining, they are very happy. If not, they will try to influence people to start a war. Sort of like when we sent troops over the Mexican border in 1849, Mexico attacked our troops, and then it was "game on!". He says that has not changed one bit in over 160 years.

 

[9aces]

Wow not a word about how sad this is, these people are dead what 1 hour?...geeezzzzzz

Rome had a huge budget for it's military. As it aged, it spent less on it, and more to appease the masses. A bunch of less advanced, less "civilized" barbarians tore it down when it became too weak to defend itself, and it's desperate attempt to rebuild it to save itself was too little, too late.

That is not the only such lesson in history. Learn from them.

...and swords and shields! We need more swords and shields!!!!!!!!!

Your ignorance is impressive. I don't know when I've run across anyone less capable of formulating an intelligent response.

Don't blame me, blame Ike! Everything I know about the military industrial complex, I learned from him (well, also my cousin who was a full bird Colonel in the Quartermaster Corps., who told me when he retired that there was only one sin that the Army would not forgive, and that was NOT spending every dime in your budget by the end of the fiscal year, since that would guarantee a budget cut next year.

And whom is the accountability in said budget's responsibility?

You're blaming the wrong thing.

My cousin is really quite an intelligent guy. He went in to the Army as a buck private, had them finance his 2 masters degrees, and retired as a full colonel. He also told me that the armed forces lives for war, and that if they can find one that they can talk the government in joining, they are very happy. If not, they will try to influence people to start a war. Sort of like when we sent troops over the Mexican border in 1849, Mexico attacked our troops, and then it was "game on!". He says that has not changed one bit in over 160 years.

Ah, so you're a compulsive liar. Got it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Gee, 9! You don't believe me? Why, you have just ruined my day!

 

[Vandalshandle]

Gee, 9! You don't believe me? Why, you have just ruined my day!

Let's all pretend that the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and the "Weapons of mass destruction" claims were really legitimate!

 

[rdean]

GOP fought tooth and nail against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security - the greatest anti poverty program in the history of the world.

Republicans said these programs will bankrupt the United States. That was their reason. The GOP insists they were fighting for fiscal sanity against the "tax and spend" Democrats.

Isn't it ironic that it was the Bush Tax Cuts that took us down the road to unsustainable deficits? First trillions in tax cuts that did not create jobs. Then the GOP helping business move millions of jobs overseas which led to the closings of tens of thousands of factories costing this country trillions more in revenue.

Then the fiscally sane GOP cut taxes by trillions while waging two wars costing even more trillions.

And they are so ashamed, they blame it on Obama. They aren't even man enough to stand up for what they did. This is why they have to be defeated. Who could vote for a party that is so wrong again and again. Any Republican who gets Social Security should be ashamed.

You can point to the trillions that you say the repubs have cost us and yet the very programs you cite have future unfunded liabilities by some estimates over 200 Trillion. I guess the repubs were right.

When it comes to shipping jobs overseas you're just plain wrong. I've been in mfg all my life and can honestly say the dems have waged war on us for the last 40+ years. It's impossible to get people on the left to acknowledge that adding new layers of regulation day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade has repercussions. We have always faced higher labor costs, energy costs, shipping costs, tax rates, the list goes on, than our foreign competition.
The constant never ending increase in regulatory burdens just added to manufacturing's demise.

You did it. You drank the swill. Worse, you believed it.
Name the regulations that freak you out.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Well, for one thing, they had to stop putting lead in paint. DAMNED FEDERAL REGULATORS!

 

[g5000]

I'm so tired of Democrats blaming Republicans, and Republicans blaming Democrats, for the debt. It's the biggest Pot Calling The Kettle Black bitch fest of all time.

 

[g5000]

All those other Congressmen with the wrong letter after their names spend way too much on pork, but my Congressman brings home the bacon! Damn those other Congressmen with the wrong letter after their names! Damn them all to hell!

Now pass me some of that bacon.

 

[rdean]

Well, for one thing, they had to stop putting lead in paint. DAMNED FEDERAL REGULATORS!

And how much that cost us? DAMNED FEDERAL REGULATORS!

 

[baileyn45]

GOP fought tooth and nail against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security - the greatest anti poverty program in the history of the world.

Republicans said these programs will bankrupt the United States. That was their reason. The GOP insists they were fighting for fiscal sanity against the "tax and spend" Democrats.

Isn't it ironic that it was the Bush Tax Cuts that took us down the road to unsustainable deficits? First trillions in tax cuts that did not create jobs. Then the GOP helping business move millions of jobs overseas which led to the closings of tens of thousands of factories costing this country trillions more in revenue.

Then the fiscally sane GOP cut taxes by trillions while waging two wars costing even more trillions.

And they are so ashamed, they blame it on Obama. They aren't even man enough to stand up for what they did. This is why they have to be defeated. Who could vote for a party that is so wrong again and again. Any Republican who gets Social Security should be ashamed.

You can point to the trillions that you say the repubs have cost us and yet the very programs you cite have future unfunded liabilities by some estimates over 200 Trillion. I guess the repubs were right.

When it comes to shipping jobs overseas you're just plain wrong. I've been in mfg all my life and can honestly say the dems have waged war on us for the last 40+ years. It's impossible to get people on the left to acknowledge that adding new layers of regulation day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade has repercussions. We have always faced higher labor costs, energy costs, shipping costs, tax rates, the list goes on, than our foreign competition.
The constant never ending increase in regulatory burdens just added to manufacturing's demise.

You did it. You drank the swill. Worse, you believed it.
Name the regulations that freak you out.

I didn't drink the swill, I lived it.

Name the regulations? Sorry I'd have to quit my job and hire an assistant to do that. I will give you an example. Every year I am required to have sound study done in my operating areas to see if hearing protection is required. Cost me $3800 this year(goes up every year). Sounds logical right? Well I have required hearing protection in those areas for the last 27 years.
Big signs everywhere "Hearing Protection Required In This Area". $3800 out of my safety budget that accomplishes nothing.

I'll give you another. OSHA wants my "setup" personnel to "lock out" the equipment they are setting. By lockout I mean place a lock on the electrical box to prevent activating the equipment during setup. Well guess what, you can't set the machine without power. The ram is powered, the hydraulic lines are powered, the cushions are supplied by the hydraulics, the light curtains require power. Try explaining this to an OSHA agent that hasn't the slightest idea of what piece of equipment they are standing in front of.

I always like to contrast dealing with some one like OSHA with dealing with local fire inspectors. The firemen walk in say "I don't like that fix it". I say "yes sir". I fix it. Case closed. They love me, I love them. OSHA shows up they take notes for a week and a half, leave and 4 months later I get a fine in the mail. I spend a couple of months trying to figure out what they're talking about, I hire an attorney, I hire a safety consultant. We then go into an office and try to explain why the 23 year old, who has an english degree, that they sent into my shop is wrong. Of course I'm now dealing with her boss that graduated 12 years earlier with a degree in sociology. If I'm not satisfied I can go to court and have a judge(who naturally is a lawyer) decide if I, my safety consultant and staff with a combined 180 years of experience on this very equipment is right or the fed employees with their fine vocabulary and understanding of social justice are correct. Guess which way it generally turns out. To this day every time my people setup a machine I'm breaking federal law. It's my understanding that setting this equipment is legal in Mexico.