good ideas don't require government force

[rightwinger]

The only time hypocrite left wingers complain about the Electoral College is when they lose an election. Bill Clinton authorized the use of freaking tanks and poison gas on a quirky religious sect in Texas when they could have captured Koresch at the 7-11. How's that for government abuse? Hussein authorized the federal police to ship 3,000 illegal weapons to Mex. drug cartels and at least one American Police Officer was killed by one of them. Hypocrite lefties only criticize "government" when they lose an election.

Koresh was a murdering pedophile

He deserved what he got

"He deserved what he got"? I rest my case.

He deserved worse

 

[rightwinger]

Clean air and clean water are good ideas

They are required by the government

 

[DOTR]

I disagree. Both SS and Medicare were ideas debated and passed by our Representatives, and signed into law by the then POTUS. They are not forced on anyone, anymore than any other law promulgated by our representatives.

What about me?

I didn't get to choose my representative at the time. I was still 40 years un-hatched. I didn't get a voice. Hell, my parents didn't get a voice.

It was forced on me before I was born.

Good point! Instead of working to build a foundation for the next generation the liberals worked to hobble them to failed programs you had no vote on.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

He deserved worse

His family, parents and grandparents. All his friends. They all deserved it too right? They deserved to be gassed to death, right?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Clean air and clean water are good ideas

They are required by the government

And any violators should be burned alive in their homes, right?

 

[bripat9643]

Social Security is government by force, yet most Americans are comfortable with it. The same could be said for Medicare.

Hogs are comfortable with being raised for slaughter.

By all means, go off the grid.

What does your post have to do with Social Security or Medicaid?

 

[bripat9643]

Social Security is government by force, yet most Americans are comfortable with it. The same could be said for Medicare.

I disagree. Both SS and Medicare were ideas debated and passed by our Representatives, and signed into law by the then POTUS. They are not forced on anyone, anymore than any other law promulgated by our representatives.

Of course they are forced on you. When did I consent to SS?

 

[DJT for Life]

the smallest minority in the world is the individual. those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

Those who feel that individuals aren't equal, can't claim to be defenders of the people, like the US elections where people in Wyoming get a vote 3 times as powerful as those in California or Texas.

Actually, they don't. A vote in Wyoming is only worth one vote toward Wyoming's
allotted number in the electoral college.

If there was no electoral college there would have never been a United
States of America. States rights have always been paramount to the federal
government. The only way to dump the electoral college is to place the
Federal Govt in complete control of voting registration, polls, voting booths,
whatever. The states can have no say whatsoever. Good luck with getting
that changed

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Actually, they don't. A vote in Wyoming is only worth one vote toward Wyoming's
allotted number in the electoral college.

If there was no electoral college there would have never been a United
States of America. States rights have always been paramount to the federal
government. The only way to dump the electoral college is to place the
Federal Govt in complete control of voting registration, polls, voting booths,
whatever. The states can have no say whatsoever. Good luck with getting
that changed

What it really does is prevent candidates from pandering to California and Texas, and ignoring the other 48. Will both California and Texas in the popular vote, and it is over.

All a politician has to do is promise to give them something that will not benefit other states, and BOOM.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Those who feel that individuals aren't equal, can't claim to be defenders of the people, like the US elections where people in Wyoming get a vote 3 times as powerful as those in California or Texas.

In the House each state has the number the number of representatives is corresponding with the population of that state.

So, Wyoming voters' votes are not any more powerful than votes of those in California or New York.

If number of senators were allocated the same way, there would be no need for the Senate.

And America would not be a Republic.

I think they were referring to the Electoral College. A vote in Wyoming is worth 3 times the vote of a person in Cali or Ny


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

So, are you saying that Wyoming abuses the fact that they are a state with small population, i.e. minority?

The Electoral College assures that even 'minority' states have a voice.

Kind of like affirmative action.

Very much unlike AA. In practical terms the money and time spent in small states impacts elections, there is much talk that Trump's election was an accident since he lost the popular vote - nationwide - by millions, and won three states by less than 2% of the entire vote.

The same case can be made for Congressional Districts; when gerrymandering created one party dominance as money was poured into these enclaves to make a safe harbor for a parties incumbent and limit the ability of the other party to win.

We need to reform our elections so we can never again be dominated by one party, one ideology and lead by an inept, incompetent and mendacious President.

I don't think it'll ever happen. But yes all states should allocate their EV as Maine and Neb do. It would preserve the "weight" given to smaller states while also allowing every voter to have his/her will more accurately counted.

But the logical fault of the OP is its abstract nature. Basque no doubt would argue Obamacare's mandate is "socialist social engineering depriving individual choice." Yet in the "real world," there is no "real" consequence for not having private insurance if one is not already on Medicaid or medicare. Because the cost of treatment was passed on to those with insurance, even if the non-insured ended up in bankruptcy where he/she could discharge medical debt. We can't have true freedom of choice without true unfettered consequences for actions.

What elections come down to is money. The issues in this age of technology could create an informed voter, but the volume of conflicting ideas, alternative facts, lies, half-truths, rumors, innuendos and character assassinations confuses even the most sophisticated and curious person.

And sadly, this is used by the power elites (pols, global corporations, Wall Street , brokers and the very well off) to influence the voters with talking points and 30-second radio and TV ads.

It's odd too that the current iteration of conservatives whine about people not being personally responsible, and then attack Obamacare for making people pay for their own subsidized health care. Such hypocrisy irks me.

 

[bendog]

Actually, they don't. A vote in Wyoming is only worth one vote toward Wyoming's
allotted number in the electoral college.

If there was no electoral college there would have never been a United
States of America. States rights have always been paramount to the federal
government. The only way to dump the electoral college is to place the
Federal Govt in complete control of voting registration, polls, voting booths,
whatever. The states can have no say whatsoever. Good luck with getting
that changed

What it really does is prevent candidates from pandering to California and Texas, and ignoring the other 48. Will both California and Texas in the popular vote, and it is over.

All a politician has to do is promise to give them something that will not benefit other states, and BOOM.

Like the gop did with the tax "overhaul"

 

[rightwinger]

He deserved worse

His family, parents and grandparents. All his friends. They all deserved it too right? They deserved to be gassed to death, right?

They hooked their wagon to a murderous child molesting demogaugue
Their decision

 

[rightwinger]

Clean air and clean water are good ideas

They are required by the government

And any violators should be burned alive in their homes, right?

?

 

[DJT for Life]

Actually, they don't. A vote in Wyoming is only worth one vote toward Wyoming's
allotted number in the electoral college.

If there was no electoral college there would have never been a United
States of America. States rights have always been paramount to the federal
government. The only way to dump the electoral college is to place the
Federal Govt in complete control of voting registration, polls, voting booths,
whatever. The states can have no say whatsoever. Good luck with getting
that changed

What it really does is prevent candidates from pandering to California and Texas, and ignoring the other 48. Will both California and Texas in the popular vote, and it is over.

All a politician has to do is promise to give them something that will not benefit other states, and BOOM.

Like the gop did with the tax "overhaul"

How do you figure?

If you are implying that Calif/NY, shitholes like that, don't get full advantage
because of their property taxes...just have them lower their state tax rates.
Pretty simple solution.

Folks want to live in California can live there. Nobody stopping them. Folks
that want to live in States with no state tax, can move to those states.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Social Security is government by force, yet most Americans are comfortable with it. The same could be said for Medicare.

I disagree. Both SS and Medicare were ideas debated and passed by our Representatives, and signed into law by the then POTUS. They are not forced on anyone, anymore than any other law promulgated by our representatives.

Of course they are forced on you. When did I consent to SS?

You have tacitly accepted it. You have every right to leave the United States and live somewhere where you can be totally free, if you can find one.

Social security was a solution to a problem, one those who have studied history, and in particular US history, understand. In fact it is a regressive tax, since more than half of all working Americans pay a percentage of every dollar they earn to payroll taxes, and yet the wealthy are excused from paying more after earning $128,700; that should be raised to keep SS funded well into the future.

 

[bendog]

In the House each state has the number the number of representatives is corresponding with the population of that state.

So, Wyoming voters' votes are not any more powerful than votes of those in California or New York.

If number of senators were allocated the same way, there would be no need for the Senate.

And America would not be a Republic.

I think they were referring to the Electoral College. A vote in Wyoming is worth 3 times the vote of a person in Cali or Ny


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

So, are you saying that Wyoming abuses the fact that they are a state with small population, i.e. minority?

The Electoral College assures that even 'minority' states have a voice.

Kind of like affirmative action.

Very much unlike AA. In practical terms the money and time spent in small states impacts elections, there is much talk that Trump's election was an accident since he lost the popular vote - nationwide - by millions, and won three states by less than 2% of the entire vote.

The same case can be made for Congressional Districts; when gerrymandering created one party dominance as money was poured into these enclaves to make a safe harbor for a parties incumbent and limit the ability of the other party to win.

We need to reform our elections so we can never again be dominated by one party, one ideology and lead by an inept, incompetent and mendacious President.

I don't think it'll ever happen. But yes all states should allocate their EV as Maine and Neb do. It would preserve the "weight" given to smaller states while also allowing every voter to have his/her will more accurately counted.

But the logical fault of the OP is its abstract nature. Basque no doubt would argue Obamacare's mandate is "socialist social engineering depriving individual choice." Yet in the "real world," there is no "real" consequence for not having private insurance if one is not already on Medicaid or medicare. Because the cost of treatment was passed on to those with insurance, even if the non-insured ended up in bankruptcy where he/she could discharge medical debt. We can't have true freedom of choice without true unfettered consequences for actions.

What elections come down to is money. The issues in this age of technology could create an informed voter, but the volume of conflicting ideas, alternative facts, lies, half-truths, rumors, innuendos and character assassinations confuses even the most sophisticated and curious person.

And sadly, this is used by the power elites (pols, global corporations, Wall Street , brokers and the very well off) to influence the voters with talking points and 30-second radio and TV ads.

It's odd too that the current iteration of conservatives whine about people not being personally responsible, and then attack Obamacare for making people pay for their own subsidized health care. Such hypocrisy irks me.

The "official" not-Trump gop whine on healthcare is hypocritical - no argument from me.

But I question what effect that official gop whine had on voters. Trump pretty well kicked the ass of every gop candidate in the primaries. He got a plurality rather than a maj of gop primary votes, but the outcome of each primary wasn't much in doubt after the first 10 or so.

I'm pretty sure that the central view of Trump supporters is "the gummit is doing something for somebody else, and I'm paying for it." Most Trump voters identify racism to whites is as big a problem as racism to blacks. Bannon and the Alt-R KKK lite folks. Immigrants taking our jobs

So, I'm just not confident people can debate policy right now. Rather, Trump is "bigly Uuuugely" popular with voters in Red states. That fact subsumes all policy
Fealty to Trump has become the coin of the realm for GOP Senate candidates

However, I do really think Trump is having an effect on trade. Like most attempts the good and the bad is thus far a mixed bag and we operate in world of unintended consequences. For example the price of a lowly US soybean has yo-yoed.

 

[bendog]

Actually, they don't. A vote in Wyoming is only worth one vote toward Wyoming's
allotted number in the electoral college.

If there was no electoral college there would have never been a United
States of America. States rights have always been paramount to the federal
government. The only way to dump the electoral college is to place the
Federal Govt in complete control of voting registration, polls, voting booths,
whatever. The states can have no say whatsoever. Good luck with getting
that changed

What it really does is prevent candidates from pandering to California and Texas, and ignoring the other 48. Will both California and Texas in the popular vote, and it is over.

All a politician has to do is promise to give them something that will not benefit other states, and BOOM.

Like the gop did with the tax "overhaul"

How do you figure?

If you are implying that Calif/NY, shitholes like that, don't get full advantage
because of their property taxes...just have them lower their state tax rates.
Pretty simple solution.

Folks want to live in California can live there. Nobody stopping them. Folks
that want to live in States with no state tax, can move to those states.

Do you want to acknowledge now that the gop altered the tax structure to benefit voters in red states or just continue spinning on your ass?

Whether the change is good or bad is not the issue. The gop punished blue voters with a policy change for political gain.

 

[DOTR]

I disagree. Both SS and Medicare were ideas debated and passed by our Representatives, and signed into law by the then POTUS. They are not forced on anyone, anymore than any other law promulgated by our representatives.

What about me?

I didn't get to choose my representative at the time. I was still 40 years un-hatched. I didn't get a voice. Hell, my parents didn't get a voice.

It was forced on me before I was born.

The Constitution envisioned a new budget every two years. The governed consenting often to the taxes they were subject to. Maybe we should get back to that...all handouts have to be renewed every two years. But that would take moral fiber as much as a political change. Once you go as far as we have, creating generations of serfs who depend on bleeding their fellow citizens for a living, its not so easy to back out. Your every move to right things will be met by howls of how you are starving the dependents.
The only answer I can see is ignore the howls. Maybe a new law stating that anyone who wants to legislate handouts has to first hand out all their own money?

Nancy Pelosi is worth 30 million dollars (on a government salary!). Why not a law that says she has to give 29.5 million to the poor before she takes a dime from the man working 80 hours a week to make 75000 for his family?

 

[DJT for Life]

Actually, they don't. A vote in Wyoming is only worth one vote toward Wyoming's
allotted number in the electoral college.

If there was no electoral college there would have never been a United
States of America. States rights have always been paramount to the federal
government. The only way to dump the electoral college is to place the
Federal Govt in complete control of voting registration, polls, voting booths,
whatever. The states can have no say whatsoever. Good luck with getting
that changed

What it really does is prevent candidates from pandering to California and Texas, and ignoring the other 48. Will both California and Texas in the popular vote, and it is over.

All a politician has to do is promise to give them something that will not benefit other states, and BOOM.

Like the gop did with the tax "overhaul"

How do you figure?

If you are implying that Calif/NY, shitholes like that, don't get full advantage
because of their property taxes...just have them lower their state tax rates.
Pretty simple solution.

Folks want to live in California can live there. Nobody stopping them. Folks
that want to live in States with no state tax, can move to those states.

Do you want to acknowledge now that the gop altered the tax structure to benefit voters in red states or just continue spinning on your ass?

Whether the change is good or bad is not the issue. The gop punished blue voters with a policy change for political gain.

Did the GOP do that or did the Blue States with their high taxes do that?

 

[bripat9643]

Social Security is government by force, yet most Americans are comfortable with it. The same could be said for Medicare.

I disagree. Both SS and Medicare were ideas debated and passed by our Representatives, and signed into law by the then POTUS. They are not forced on anyone, anymore than any other law promulgated by our representatives.

Of course they are forced on you. When did I consent to SS?

You have tacitly accepted it. You have every right to leave the United States and live somewhere where you can be totally free, if you can find one.

Sorry, dumbass, but that doesn't constitute consent according to any legal definition of the term or otherwise. If Guido the leg breaker says he's going to provide "protection" to my business for $1000/month, and tells me he'll break my legs if I don't pay him, I haven't consented to it, and that's exactly the way SS works.

Social security was a solution to a problem, one those who have studied history, and in particular US history, understand. In fact it is a regressive tax, since more than half of all working Americans pay a percentage of every dollar they earn to payroll taxes, and yet the wealthy are excused from paying more after earning $128,700; that should be raised to keep SS funded well into the future.

The only problem it solved is getting old people to vote Democrat. Your complaint that it doesn't loot us thoroughly enough is a ******* joke.