Good Argument from Republican Business Owner Medicare for All

[MeBelle]

There is no 'Medicare For All' scenario that doesn't end up consuming the majority of all Federal Tax Revenue. American Government and efficiency never go together. With our ridiculous immigration laws that are designed to entice poor ignorant people, the costs would continually rise. At that point most of the tax revenue would be going to pay interest on the debt and to pay for "free" health care.

Oh like the tax revenue now we're saving on the tariff's? Check that one out.

You just derailed your own thread!

What a downer ....

 

[MeBelle]

They will if more people are on Medicare. As far as I'm aware most doctors do assignment with Medicare, you might be thinking about Medicaid.

Your post leads me to believe you know zilch about health insurance in the United States of America.

 

[MeBelle]

71 here and always have had thorough physicals, must be your doctor. Yep, some docs don't accept new Medicare patients and some don't accept under 65 products.

Under 65 'products'???

wtf???

 

[debbiedowner]

There is no 'Medicare For All' scenario that doesn't end up consuming the majority of all Federal Tax Revenue. American Government and efficiency never go together. With our ridiculous immigration laws that are designed to entice poor ignorant people, the costs would continually rise. At that point most of the tax revenue would be going to pay interest on the debt and to pay for "free" health care.

Oh like the tax revenue now we're saving on the tariff's? Check that one out.

You just derailed your own thread!

What a downer ....

That's why I use the id debbiedowner.

 

[debbiedowner]

71 here and always have had thorough physicals, must be your doctor. Yep, some docs don't accept new Medicare patients and some don't accept under 65 products.

Under 65 'products'???

wtf???

Are you asking what an under 65 product is? Individual insurance plans for one under 65 years of age.

 

[Third Party]

There is no 'Medicare For All' scenario that doesn't end up consuming the majority of all Federal Tax Revenue. American Government and efficiency never go together. With our ridiculous immigration laws that are designed to entice poor ignorant people, the costs would continually rise. At that point most of the tax revenue would be going to pay interest on the debt and to pay for "free" health care.

Oh like the tax revenue now we're saving on the tariff's? Check that one out.

You just derailed your own thread!

What a downer ....

That's why I use the id debbiedowner.

Oh, I thought it meant...never mind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's a very good article from an ex Republican lawmaker and business owner for Medicare for All and it makes a lot of sense especially for all business owners.

Republican business owner and former state lawmaker: We need Medicare for All. Here's why.

We must fix this market failure, to save lives and create a more robust economy. Medicare for All offers the best solution.

Relieving businesses of the responsibility of employer-sponsored insurance, which is now priced at $19,616 a year for a family plan, will help expand our economy — by creating jobs, raising wages, maintaining our ability to compete internationally, and supporting small and mid-sized businesses like mine that are starting to buckle under the burden. In recent years, my costs have been rising 8% annually, and that’s low compared to some of my peers.

Get practical: Medicare for All is a distant dream. Here's how to start fixing health care right now.

Medicare for All will also encourage entrepreneurship, the bedrock of our economy. Why? Because people can pursue new jobs and careers knowing that they won’t lose access to health care for themselves or their families.

Sen. Sanders and other proponents of Medicare for All are free to frame the policy as a component of democratic socialism. However, when it comes to health care, their democratic socialism and my capitalism are in agreement.

Let’s focus on the policy, not on loaded terminology.

Loaded terminology like "Look, a Republican! That means you should believe him!"?

At what point in the last hundred or so years has the American healthcare system been a free market system, that he's declaring "free markets have failed"? Seems to me that, to the extent that the healthcare system has failed, it's done so because of government interference, not because of market forces.

From your own "Look, I'm right because I found someone to agree with me!" link:

"To work well, markets require educated consumers, cost-responsive demand and, most importantly, choice."

Yes, and the main reason we haven't had those, and thus have not had a free-market system, would be the government and its meddling.

His argument that healthcare can't operate as a free market system because people don't have medical degrees is nonsense. People make market choices about all manner of things they aren't extensively educated about every day. At no point in our history have people had more access to the information they need than now, and "people are stupid and need politicians to care for them like the dumb sheep they are" is not a convincing argument. How many of those politicians know any more about medicine than I do?

As usual, DebbieDumber, your attempt to be "right" for any reason other than actually having an argument has failed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is no 'Medicare For All' scenario that doesn't end up consuming the majority of all Federal Tax Revenue. American Government and efficiency never go together. With our ridiculous immigration laws that are designed to entice poor ignorant people, the costs would continually rise. At that point most of the tax revenue would be going to pay interest on the debt and to pay for "free" health care.

Oh like the tax revenue now we're saving on the tariff's? Check that one out.

"Look, a distraction!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is no 'Medicare For All' scenario that doesn't end up consuming the majority of all Federal Tax Revenue. American Government and efficiency never go together. With our ridiculous immigration laws that are designed to entice poor ignorant people, the costs would continually rise. At that point most of the tax revenue would be going to pay interest on the debt and to pay for "free" health care.

But there is an alternative: Go back to the old underwriting system before obamacare and if one is declined insurance or have certain exclusion's let the buy in to Medicare and also give 50 year old plus the option to buy in. The extra premium's just might carry Medicare out by a few years. This would also take the responsibility off the small business owner.

I have never advocated for everyone to have Medicare or single payer. I believe a real Medicare for All would just become the elusive death panels down the road.

Here's an example on what's coming down the road if Medicare just stays status quo.

Docs Brace for Medicare 'Appropriate' Imaging Rule

There are a lot of alternatives, but you're so ecstatic over the idea of getting even more of your pathetic life run for you out of other people's pockets that you don't want to hear it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is no 'Medicare For All' scenario that doesn't end up consuming the majority of all Federal Tax Revenue. American Government and efficiency never go together. With our ridiculous immigration laws that are designed to entice poor ignorant people, the costs would continually rise. At that point most of the tax revenue would be going to pay interest on the debt and to pay for "free" health care.

But there is an alternative: Go back to the old underwriting system before obamacare and if one is declined insurance or have certain exclusion's let the buy in to Medicare and also give 50 year old plus the option to buy in. The extra premium's just might carry Medicare out by a few years. This would also take the responsibility off the small business owner.

I have never advocated for everyone to have Medicare or single payer. I believe a real Medicare for All would just become the elusive death panels down the road.

Here's an example on what's coming down the road if Medicare just stays status quo.

Docs Brace for Medicare 'Appropriate' Imaging Rule

A note about Medicare-the costs are much better but the service... When I had company insurance, my physicals were thorough. Now I get asked a few questions and get a blood draw. When I called for a new doctor, I was asked what insurance I had. When I said Medicare, they said they were not taking new patients-hmmm. Be careful what you wish for.

Yup. That's because doctors have to carefully balance their patient mix between government payers and private payers in order to make sure they get enough from private payers to cover their expenses.

 

[debbiedowner]

Here's a very good article from an ex Republican lawmaker and business owner for Medicare for All and it makes a lot of sense especially for all business owners.

Republican business owner and former state lawmaker: We need Medicare for All. Here's why.

We must fix this market failure, to save lives and create a more robust economy. Medicare for All offers the best solution.

Relieving businesses of the responsibility of employer-sponsored insurance, which is now priced at $19,616 a year for a family plan, will help expand our economy — by creating jobs, raising wages, maintaining our ability to compete internationally, and supporting small and mid-sized businesses like mine that are starting to buckle under the burden. In recent years, my costs have been rising 8% annually, and that’s low compared to some of my peers.

Get practical: Medicare for All is a distant dream. Here's how to start fixing health care right now.

Medicare for All will also encourage entrepreneurship, the bedrock of our economy. Why? Because people can pursue new jobs and careers knowing that they won’t lose access to health care for themselves or their families.

Sen. Sanders and other proponents of Medicare for All are free to frame the policy as a component of democratic socialism. However, when it comes to health care, their democratic socialism and my capitalism are in agreement.

Let’s focus on the policy, not on loaded terminology.

Loaded terminology like "Look, a Republican! That means you should believe him!"?

At what point in the last hundred or so years has the American healthcare system been a free market system, that he's declaring "free markets have failed"? Seems to me that, to the extent that the healthcare system has failed, it's done so because of government interference, not because of market forces.

From your own "Look, I'm right because I found someone to agree with me!" link:

"To work well, markets require educated consumers, cost-responsive demand and, most importantly, choice."

Yes, and the main reason we haven't had those, and thus have not had a free-market system, would be the government and its meddling.

His argument that healthcare can't operate as a free market system because people don't have medical degrees is nonsense. People make market choices about all manner of things they aren't extensively educated about every day. At no point in our history have people had more access to the information they need than now, and "people are stupid and need politicians to care for them like the dumb sheep they are" is not a convincing argument. How many of those politicians know any more about medicine than I do?

As usual, DebbieDumber, your attempt to be "right" for any reason other than actually having an argument has failed.

Oh but you're are wrong moose breath people get scammed everyday from so called health insurance agents selling short term or indemnity plans and convince the people their providers will except it only to find out when they have a heart attack and end up with by pass they receive a bill a few weeks later for quarter of million dollars. So you think there should be no regulation? Good luck with that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's a very good article from an ex Republican lawmaker and business owner for Medicare for All and it makes a lot of sense especially for all business owners.

Republican business owner and former state lawmaker: We need Medicare for All. Here's why.

We must fix this market failure, to save lives and create a more robust economy. Medicare for All offers the best solution.

Relieving businesses of the responsibility of employer-sponsored insurance, which is now priced at $19,616 a year for a family plan, will help expand our economy — by creating jobs, raising wages, maintaining our ability to compete internationally, and supporting small and mid-sized businesses like mine that are starting to buckle under the burden. In recent years, my costs have been rising 8% annually, and that’s low compared to some of my peers.

Get practical: Medicare for All is a distant dream. Here's how to start fixing health care right now.

Medicare for All will also encourage entrepreneurship, the bedrock of our economy. Why? Because people can pursue new jobs and careers knowing that they won’t lose access to health care for themselves or their families.

Sen. Sanders and other proponents of Medicare for All are free to frame the policy as a component of democratic socialism. However, when it comes to health care, their democratic socialism and my capitalism are in agreement.

Let’s focus on the policy, not on loaded terminology.

Loaded terminology like "Look, a Republican! That means you should believe him!"?

At what point in the last hundred or so years has the American healthcare system been a free market system, that he's declaring "free markets have failed"? Seems to me that, to the extent that the healthcare system has failed, it's done so because of government interference, not because of market forces.

From your own "Look, I'm right because I found someone to agree with me!" link:

"To work well, markets require educated consumers, cost-responsive demand and, most importantly, choice."

Yes, and the main reason we haven't had those, and thus have not had a free-market system, would be the government and its meddling.

His argument that healthcare can't operate as a free market system because people don't have medical degrees is nonsense. People make market choices about all manner of things they aren't extensively educated about every day. At no point in our history have people had more access to the information they need than now, and "people are stupid and need politicians to care for them like the dumb sheep they are" is not a convincing argument. How many of those politicians know any more about medicine than I do?

As usual, DebbieDumber, your attempt to be "right" for any reason other than actually having an argument has failed.

Oh but you're are wrong moose breath people get scammed everyday from so called health insurance agents selling short term or indemnity plans and convince the people their providers will except it only to find out when they have a heart attack and end up with by pass they receive a bill a few weeks later for quarter of million dollars. So you think there should be no regulation? Good luck with that.

Oh, but YOU'RE wrong, DebbieDumber, and you're less competent at insults than my 5th grader.

Please don't project your own inability to wipe your ass without Nanny Government to hand you the toilet paper onto the rest of the world and imagine that you represent some sort of norm. Just because YOU would choose a nickel over a dime because "it's bigger" doesn't mean the rest of us aren't perfectly capable of choosing our own health plans without handing out credit card info to the first guy on the phone who asks.

 

[debbiedowner]

Here's a very good article from an ex Republican lawmaker and business owner for Medicare for All and it makes a lot of sense especially for all business owners.

Republican business owner and former state lawmaker: We need Medicare for All. Here's why.

We must fix this market failure, to save lives and create a more robust economy. Medicare for All offers the best solution.

Relieving businesses of the responsibility of employer-sponsored insurance, which is now priced at $19,616 a year for a family plan, will help expand our economy — by creating jobs, raising wages, maintaining our ability to compete internationally, and supporting small and mid-sized businesses like mine that are starting to buckle under the burden. In recent years, my costs have been rising 8% annually, and that’s low compared to some of my peers.

Get practical: Medicare for All is a distant dream. Here's how to start fixing health care right now.

Medicare for All will also encourage entrepreneurship, the bedrock of our economy. Why? Because people can pursue new jobs and careers knowing that they won’t lose access to health care for themselves or their families.

Sen. Sanders and other proponents of Medicare for All are free to frame the policy as a component of democratic socialism. However, when it comes to health care, their democratic socialism and my capitalism are in agreement.

Let’s focus on the policy, not on loaded terminology.

Loaded terminology like "Look, a Republican! That means you should believe him!"?

At what point in the last hundred or so years has the American healthcare system been a free market system, that he's declaring "free markets have failed"? Seems to me that, to the extent that the healthcare system has failed, it's done so because of government interference, not because of market forces.

From your own "Look, I'm right because I found someone to agree with me!" link:

"To work well, markets require educated consumers, cost-responsive demand and, most importantly, choice."

Yes, and the main reason we haven't had those, and thus have not had a free-market system, would be the government and its meddling.

His argument that healthcare can't operate as a free market system because people don't have medical degrees is nonsense. People make market choices about all manner of things they aren't extensively educated about every day. At no point in our history have people had more access to the information they need than now, and "people are stupid and need politicians to care for them like the dumb sheep they are" is not a convincing argument. How many of those politicians know any more about medicine than I do?

As usual, DebbieDumber, your attempt to be "right" for any reason other than actually having an argument has failed.

Oh but you're are wrong moose breath people get scammed everyday from so called health insurance agents selling short term or indemnity plans and convince the people their providers will except it only to find out when they have a heart attack and end up with by pass they receive a bill a few weeks later for quarter of million dollars. So you think there should be no regulation? Good luck with that.

Oh, but YOU'RE wrong, DebbieDumber, and you're less competent at insults than my 5th grader.

Please don't project your own inability to wipe your ass without Nanny Government to hand you the toilet paper onto the rest of the world and imagine that you represent some sort of norm. Just because YOU would choose a nickel over a dime because "it's bigger" doesn't mean the rest of us aren't perfectly capable of choosing our own health plans without handing out credit card info to the first guy on the phone who asks.

Let's see here with the insults debbiedumber.

So tit for tat you know nothing about health insurance and that is it I am not going to debate or argue with an idiot. I do know though that a bigly majority know nothing about choosing a health insurance policy.

Oh go buy a short term or hospital only policy and see how that works.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Medicare For All Myths Debunked By Dr. Danielle Martin

 

[debbiedowner]

Doesn't really matter if Medicare for All is proposed my any President regardless of party it won't happen the insurance companies are too strong in this country. Let's say Warren is elected how many dem congressmen/women after the insurance companies lobbyist gets to them how many are going to risk their re election to put her plan over the top? It just won't happen. More reasonably is let anyone over 55 buy into it and keep the insurance companies in the equation.

 

[dblack]

Doesn't really matter if Medicare for All is proposed my any President regardless of party it won't happen the insurance companies are too strong in this country. Let's say Warren is elected how many dem congressmen/women after the insurance companies lobbyist gets to them how many are going to risk their re election to put her plan over the top? It just won't happen. More reasonably is let anyone over 55 buy into it and keep the insurance companies in the equation.

LOL - of course. It's funny, you pretend to be wary of the insurance industry, yet every single one of your posts is shilling for them. Who do you think you're kidding?

 

[debbiedowner]

Doesn't really matter if Medicare for All is proposed my any President regardless of party it won't happen the insurance companies are too strong in this country. Let's say Warren is elected how many dem congressmen/women after the insurance companies lobbyist gets to them how many are going to risk their re election to put her plan over the top? It just won't happen. More reasonably is let anyone over 55 buy into it and keep the insurance companies in the equation.

LOL - of course. It's funny, you pretend to be wary of the insurance industry, yet every single one of your posts is shilling for them. Who do you think you're kidding?

Common sense and shilling are two different things.

 

[Sapient MAGA Hat]

The issue with our healthcare system is that it costs too much. The reason why it costs too much is because we allow everyone to use it even if they cannot pay for it. If we made it so that hospitals could turn away the uninsured and under-insured unless they can prove they have the ability to pay in full up front, then we would see prices finally become reasonable. If anything, it should be illegal for hospitals to treat someone who they know will not be able to pay. This practice enables freeloaders, which in turn causes the prices for everyone to go up.

Solution: Get rid of regulations that force hospitals to care for those who cannot pay. Go after hospitals that continue to provide treatment to those who will never be able to pay for said treatment. People who knowingly seek medical services they cannot pay for should be charged with theft. This of course should also go hand in hand with repealing all of obamacare and its regulations that make it nearly impossible for insurance companies to operate with any reasonable profits. Additionally, we need to have massive cuts to programs like medicaid and CHiP which gives essentially free healthcare to people who contribute nothing to society. Those people, since they don't pay for it, overuse and abuse our medical system to the point that actual paying customers end up having much larger wait times than they should when seeing their doctor. Not to mention the tax burden they put on people who are already paying far too much in medical costs because the freeloaders mentioned above continue to abuse the system.

 

[80zephyr]

Here's a very good article from an ex Republican lawmaker and business owner for Medicare for All and it makes a lot of sense especially for all business owners.

Republican business owner and former state lawmaker: We need Medicare for All. Here's why.

We must fix this market failure, to save lives and create a more robust economy. Medicare for All offers the best solution.

Relieving businesses of the responsibility of employer-sponsored insurance, which is now priced at $19,616 a year for a family plan, will help expand our economy — by creating jobs, raising wages, maintaining our ability to compete internationally, and supporting small and mid-sized businesses like mine that are starting to buckle under the burden. In recent years, my costs have been rising 8% annually, and that’s low compared to some of my peers.

Get practical: Medicare for All is a distant dream. Here's how to start fixing health care right now.

Medicare for All will also encourage entrepreneurship, the bedrock of our economy. Why? Because people can pursue new jobs and careers knowing that they won’t lose access to health care for themselves or their families.

Sen. Sanders and other proponents of Medicare for All are free to frame the policy as a component of democratic socialism. However, when it comes to health care, their democratic socialism and my capitalism are in agreement.

Let’s focus on the policy, not on loaded terminology.

Outside of ill-considered regulations, employers have no responsibility to provide health care to their employees. So we don't need Welfare for All to relieve them of the burden - all we need is to repeal the regulations and tax incentives pushing them into that role in the first place.

But, I guess any excuse for socialism is a good one, right?

You know you are a good writer but not very smart. True small employer's do not have to provide health insurance to employee's but it is a damn good idea if you want to attract good people or not lose someone to the business across the street that does provide. That article makes a lot of sense.

I have a 25 man group of a highly educated designer's the owner insists on paying 100% of the employee premium's and 50% of their family premium costing her well over a half a million a year in premium's. I have said every renewal that all they have to pay is 50% of the employee and nothing for family. She has explained to me over and over the designers will go elsewhere if she changes her policy. Just this one group and there are many out there could take this money and give raises, put more into her business thus more money into the local economy they are located. Now do tell how is that socialism.

Have you ever owned a small business?

I have. Employee health insurance is deductible from the business's taxes. So I don't know what the author is complaining about.

Mark

 

[debbiedowner]

Here's a very good article from an ex Republican lawmaker and business owner for Medicare for All and it makes a lot of sense especially for all business owners.

Republican business owner and former state lawmaker: We need Medicare for All. Here's why.

We must fix this market failure, to save lives and create a more robust economy. Medicare for All offers the best solution.

Relieving businesses of the responsibility of employer-sponsored insurance, which is now priced at $19,616 a year for a family plan, will help expand our economy — by creating jobs, raising wages, maintaining our ability to compete internationally, and supporting small and mid-sized businesses like mine that are starting to buckle under the burden. In recent years, my costs have been rising 8% annually, and that’s low compared to some of my peers.

Get practical: Medicare for All is a distant dream. Here's how to start fixing health care right now.

Medicare for All will also encourage entrepreneurship, the bedrock of our economy. Why? Because people can pursue new jobs and careers knowing that they won’t lose access to health care for themselves or their families.

Sen. Sanders and other proponents of Medicare for All are free to frame the policy as a component of democratic socialism. However, when it comes to health care, their democratic socialism and my capitalism are in agreement.

Let’s focus on the policy, not on loaded terminology.

Outside of ill-considered regulations, employers have no responsibility to provide health care to their employees. So we don't need Welfare for All to relieve them of the burden - all we need is to repeal the regulations and tax incentives pushing them into that role in the first place.

But, I guess any excuse for socialism is a good one, right?

You know you are a good writer but not very smart. True small employer's do not have to provide health insurance to employee's but it is a damn good idea if you want to attract good people or not lose someone to the business across the street that does provide. That article makes a lot of sense.

I have a 25 man group of a highly educated designer's the owner insists on paying 100% of the employee premium's and 50% of their family premium costing her well over a half a million a year in premium's. I have said every renewal that all they have to pay is 50% of the employee and nothing for family. She has explained to me over and over the designers will go elsewhere if she changes her policy. Just this one group and there are many out there could take this money and give raises, put more into her business thus more money into the local economy they are located. Now do tell how is that socialism.

Have you ever owned a small business?

I have. Employee health insurance is deductible from the business's taxes. So I don't know what the author is complaining about.


Is every dime you pay out towards an employee premium deductible on your business taxes? I don't know. Maybe he just like the hassle of dealing with it every renewal and trying to please his employee's. I don't know. I do know I have 15 individual plans in a small business and the owner knows there may be some tax advantages but does not want to shell out 50% of the employee premium that is required up front. So his thinking is cash flow.