Godless Americans

[KittenKoder]

None of this matters unless you can demonstrate beyond any doubt that the Islamic religion itself is what motivates these men to do whatever they do. Your suggestion that correlation implies causation is logically fallacious.

I dont care to waste my time demostrating what everyone already knows. Of course its their religion that motivates them, because they scream "Allahu Akbar!" just before the commit each of their beheadings or night club bombings. You would have to be a complete retard or a Muslim in denial to think they are motivated by anything other than Islam.

Dude ... ALL organized religions do. Look what the bibull tells christians to do to witches, seriously.

 

[Godboy]

None of this matters unless you can demonstrate beyond any doubt that the Islamic religion itself is what motivates these men to do whatever they do. Your suggestion that correlation implies causation is logically fallacious.

I dont care to waste my time demostrating what everyone already knows. Of course its their religion that motivates them, because they scream "Allahu Akbar!" just before the commit each of their beheadings or night club bombings. You would have to be a complete retard or a Muslim in denial to think they are motivated by anything other than Islam.

Dude ... ALL organized religions do. Look what the bibull tells christians to do to witches, seriously.

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

I fought a long battle with this question for about 10 years in my 20s. I first explored a bunch of organized christian religions. Took an intellectual peek at some non-christian religions. Looked at organized religion as a concept from the 10,000 foot level and decided to reject it. Then I struggled with whether I really believed there was no God (or whatever) or if I was an agnostic or a Deist. I tried each on for a while but none of them felt accurate.

From observation and anecdote it became apparent that there is connectivity at some level between people and that there is no scientifically explicable way this connectivity could occur. For instance, we've all heard about twins that feel pain or whatever the communication is when the other is injured. Or the the mother that knows something has happened to a child or you get the idea. If any of this is true, even one example, then there is something else.

This did not lead me to "find God" exactly, but it was enough to not completely reject. The most satisfactory explanation I've found is in the various pagan explanations. So I remain pagan, though not aligned with any specific sect.

Interesting. Did you know that women keep cells from their children in their bodies...so that could explain the "knowing" when your kid is hurt. Then again, I've been convinced more than once that something happened to one of my children to be happily proven wrong.

Cells have telepathy with each other?

Lol. I guess that's MUCH more reasonable than believing in a superior being, angels and such.

Actually yes, lol. At least we know cells exist and can communicate via chemical and protein signalling. However, I'm not sure by what mechanism that would be possible between bodies. It is true that neurons use electrical impulses, which could give off electromagnetic signals, but as far as them travelling hundreds of miles, probably not. Most likely we're speaking of coincidences.

If it can be quantitatively and repetitively shown that some mothers and twins can beat reasonable statistical odds in "sensing" the danger of children or siblings, then what is the rational explanation? Superstitious and religious people would point to the supernatural, even though nothing supernatural can be demonstrated to exist. A more reasonable approach would be, "I don't understand it now, but I will suspend judgement until I can demonstrate the mechanism."

 

[YWN666]

There are extremists in any religion. Not all Muslims spend their time beheading others and planning suicide bombings.

 

[YWN666]

I dont care to waste my time demostrating what everyone already knows. Of course its their religion that motivates them, because they scream "Allahu Akbar!" just before the commit each of their beheadings or night club bombings. You would have to be a complete retard or a Muslim in denial to think they are motivated by anything other than Islam.

Dude ... ALL organized religions do. Look what the bibull tells christians to do to witches, seriously.

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

What about the christians that murder abortion doctors?

 

[Kalam]

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

Been to Africa lately?

 

[Godboy]

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

Been to Africa lately?

I dont think you can blame what Africans do on Christianity, because they kill each other anyway. I will back that statement up by pointing out that Africa is the only place so called Christians commit atrocities.

If Muslims were only killing people in Saudi Arabia, i wouldnt have criticism for them either, but since they do this everywhere in the world that they are the predominate religion, i have harsh criticism for them. They even bring their murderous nature to other places outside the muslim world. Islam is a poisonous religion that should be despised by all.

 

[KittenKoder]

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

Been to Africa lately?

I dont think you can blame what Africans do on Christianity, because they kill each other anyway. I will back that statement up by pointing out that Africa is the only place so called Christians commit atrocities.

If Muslims were only killing people in Saudi Arabia, i wouldnt have criticism for them either, but since they do this everywhere in the world that they are the predominate religion, i have harsh criticism for them. They even bring their murderous nature to other places outside the muslim world. Islam is a poisonous religion that should be despised by all.

Actually ... the christian missionaries are often some of the largest offenders, you just don't hear about them as much.

 

[N4mddissent]

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

Been to Africa lately?

I dont think you can blame what Africans do on Christianity, because they kill each other anyway. I will back that statement up by pointing out that Africa is the only place so called Christians commit atrocities.

If Muslims were only killing people in Saudi Arabia, i wouldnt have criticism for them either, but since they do this everywhere in the world that they are the predominate religion, i have harsh criticism for them. They even bring their murderous nature to other places outside the muslim world. Islam is a poisonous religion that should be despised by all.

Although it has been more quiet recently (although I think there was an incident in the last week or so), the catholics and protestants in Northern Ireland did a pretty respectable job of violence and hatemongering. And it could be argued that the violence used by the us military in Iraq was in some ways motivated by christian theology. Certainly not universally, but if the CinC saw it as a crusade and there is a fundamentalist presence in the military, and additionally the action supported on theological grounds by certain populations here in the U.S., it is christian violence by proxy.

 

[Kalam]

I dont think you can blame what Africans do on Christianity,

Then you're applying your logic inconsistently. If atrocities committed by African Christians aren't attributable to Christianity, why are atrocities committed by Arab Muslims attributable to Islam?

What the Middle East and Africa have in common is economic and political turmoil. Therefore, radicalism is probably more common because of the tumultuous sociopolitical atmosphere in both regions, not because of religion.

because they kill each other anyway. I will back that statement up by pointing out that Africa is the only place so called Christians commit atrocities.

Northern India, the Balkans, the United States...

If Muslims were only killing people in Saudi Arabia, i wouldnt have criticism for them either, but since they do this everywhere in the world that they are the predominate religion, i have harsh criticism for them.

Predominantly Christian countries in Europe and North America are less likely to have a large number of extremists because most of these countries are economically developed and politically stable. Disadvantaged countries where extremism is prevalent were almost invariably been exploited by European colonial powers during the 20th century and earlier.

They even bring their murderous nature to other places outside the muslim world. Islam is a poisonous religion that should be despised by all.

You don't know very much about Islam at all.

 

[jeffrockit]

I love how just because I repeat an atheist proverb that often turns more true you assume I am, I follow the teaching of Bast and Anpu, thank you. No, they are not turning away from anything, they are in fact choosing to believe in things more tangible and things that have actually helped society. You forget that all we have in this world is because of science ... to embrace it is the only way to advance, religion is just to make you feel better and give you some interesting myths.

Why is it that so many can't see why people don't like chrisitian teachings as much in the US as they once use to? Really ... a teaching that tells people to stone someone for almost any reason ... a teaching that says that anyone who doesn't follow it is evil ... really ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that people would rather live and let live than be told they are damned from birth and that everything they do is evil. The true evil is brainwashing of children many religious zealots still do.

Oh, and they are not turning away from any god, they are just changing how they worship.

Why does the stoning issue always come up with non-Christians. I guess it carries more shock value and feeds into the "crazy Christian zealot" idealogy. Stoning was practiced in the old testament before the teachings of Christ and only by the Jews. Christ did much to change some of the old traditions such as only Jews could be saved, stoning and etc so as far a modern Christianity, it is a non issue though it always seems to be the Athiest's top argument against Christianity.

As for why follow, it does seem to be a good question. That is something non-Christians can't understand as they are not of the faith. Also, why would anyone put up with the abuse the non-Christians spout almost daily on all message boards when the subject comes up.

One reason I think people aren't Christian is that it takes discipline, work, study that most people just don't have the desire to do anything to that extreme. It also takes faith which some just do not understand. That's why Christians are usually dismissed as crazy zealots because of this lack of understanding.

I often ask this question: Why do non-Christians care to spend their time and energy slamming Christians. Don't give me the fallacy that all Christians want to cram their belief system down non-believers throats...couldn't be farther from the truth. True Christians turn the other cheek as is taught in the Bible.

Mostly Christians pray which is not something the rest should be afraid of or worried about. As much as is written on these boards about tolerance for others, I find Christianity to be the least tolerated.

You're painting with a broad brush. The only christians I slam are the obnoxious ones who condemn me for not goose stepping to their tune or who demand that their beliefs be legislated. There are other christians that are respectful and wouldn't dream of attacking others for their choice of beliefs (or non-belief). If you want to see intolerance, look up any newspaper article on atheism and watch the ignorance and hatred come out in the letters to the editor over the next few days.

While I realize it is "painting with a broad brush", I am only responding to the broad strokes I read portrayed about Christians/Christianity. Responding to those who post is not an effective way to share your beliefs and I realize it really only frustrates me, but there are times when Christians should take a stand and defend their beliefs.
I don't expect any non-Christian to understand my faith and I never push it on anyone. If questioned, I am more than happy to share.

 

[YWN666]

I don't expect any non-Christian to understand my faith and I never push it on anyone. If questioned, I am more than happy to share.

That's the way is should be. It's all about respecting the beliefs of others even if you disagree.

 

[Ocean56]

I don't expect any non-Christian to understand my faith and I never push it on anyone. If questioned, I am more than happy to share.

That's the way is should be. It's all about respecting the beliefs of others even if you disagree.

Hey, YWN! Glad to see a familiar poster at last. I would say, in response to your statement, that for me it depends on what that belief is. If I feel that belief is totally false, and is more destructive than anything else, I can't find any reason to respect it. Hope that makes some kind of sense.

Ocean

 

[Ocean56]

Oops, that last reply was a bit TOO large. Sorry about that. It has been quite a long time since I posted here. There might be some trial and error until I find the right-size font and size that won't look too "loud."

Ocean

 

[YWN666]

I don't expect any non-Christian to understand my faith and I never push it on anyone. If questioned, I am more than happy to share.

That's the way is should be. It's all about respecting the beliefs of others even if you disagree.

Hey, YWN! Glad to see a familiar poster at last. I would say, in response to your statement, that for me it depends on what that belief is. If I feel that belief is totally false, and is more destructive than anything else, I can't find any reason to respect it. Hope that makes some kind of sense.

Ocean

Hey Ocean! My statement was made under the assumption that no one is being hurt by the belief.

 

[xsited1]

Here's a godless Indian:

 

[Ocean56]

I saw that and found it very sad. When we need to turn to God the most it seems our country is turning away. I'm curious as to what you atheists believe in. You believe we are born and die and that is it? Or do some of you feel there is something else and you just don't prescribe to any organized religion?

why is it you as a christian have the gall to assume that because one does not believe in your god..they are atheists. i do not believe in your god but i am not an athesit. yes i feel there is something else...the gods and goddess that came long before your god..if they do not exist, then why does your god feel the need to say...have no other gods before me..

Never said you nor anyone else is an atheist because you don't believe in Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that all faiths can make it into heaven.

And I should "respect" what the catholic church teaches....because? Sorry, but since I consider the catholic church to be the monument to cruelty and oppression and couldn't wait to DUMP it, whatever it purports to "teach" (dictate would be more accurate) isn't worthy of consideration as far as I'm concerned.

 

[KittenKoder]

why is it you as a christian have the gall to assume that because one does not believe in your god..they are atheists. i do not believe in your god but i am not an athesit. yes i feel there is something else...the gods and goddess that came long before your god..if they do not exist, then why does your god feel the need to say...have no other gods before me..

Never said you nor anyone else is an atheist because you don't believe in Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that all faiths can make it into heaven.

And I should "respect" what the catholic church teaches....because? Sorry, but since I consider the catholic church to be the monument to cruelty and oppression and couldn't wait to DUMP it, whatever it purports to "teach" (dictate would be more accurate) isn't worthy of consideration as far as I'm concerned.

Go to the French Museum of Torture ... those were all invented by the Catholic church ... well most. Fascinating and frightening at the same time, even made me cringe ... a little bit anyway.

 

[Ocean56]

Dude ... ALL organized religions do. Look what the bibull tells christians to do to witches, seriously.

Yeah, but the christians havent killed any witches for a long time, so i got no beef with them.

What about the christians that murder abortion doctors?

EXCELLENT question YWN; so far, I have yet to see ONE christian provide an answer to it.

 

[Ocean56]

Never said you nor anyone else is an atheist because you don't believe in Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that all faiths can make it into heaven.

And I should "respect" what the catholic church teaches....because? Sorry, but since I consider the catholic church to be the monument to cruelty and oppression and couldn't wait to DUMP it, whatever it purports to "teach" (dictate would be more accurate) isn't worthy of consideration as far as I'm concerned.

Go to the French Museum of Torture ... those were all invented by the Catholic church ... well most. Fascinating and frightening at the same time, even made me cringe ... a little bit anyway.

I'll have to take a pass on that one. Just READING about the worst of their torture instruments and their terrorist campaigns is enough to give anyone bad nightmares.