God needs a super-natural visit today

[AVG-JOE]

He did pop in. We crucified Him.

Define 'we'.

Sons of men.

As in We, The People of Earth, past, present and future?

Or just the male Monkeys? ​

Hang on - I would have to agree that Monkey-on-Monkey violence has a heavy male dominated history.....

'We' crucified a LOT of Monkeys. Especially if 'crucified' is defined in it's loosest terms.​

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Except the Children of Israel saw the Pillar of Cloud by day and the Fire of God by night. They saw the miracles. They heard the voice of God and they still disobeyed and fell away. Many of them died in the wilderness. They had everything including the most perfect lawgiver and still failed so when people want to find God on their own merit, these are the footsteps you are following in and the children of Israel who died in the wilderness will be many people's examples.

According to the ancient stories.


It's interesting how thousands of years later those stories can still roll off a keyboard like they were established fact.

`​

The Truth is like that

 

[Avatar4321]

First Deity to defend His Holy Book in the here and now, gets my worship.

Jus' sayin'

Read the Book of Mormon. It provides a way for you to learn for yourself whether it's true. The Lord will prove it to you. Take the challenge, what do you have to lose?

There's just that pesky issue of the golden plates thing.

Why is fraud and misrepresentation such a consistent theme surrounding tales of the gods and the men who invent these gods?

You mean the plates which were seen by a dozen people who upheld their witness until death despite having every incentive to renounce their witness? Those plates?

 

[Avatar4321]

First Deity to defend His Holy Book in the here and now, gets my worship.

Jus' sayin'

Read the Book of Mormon. It provides a way for you to learn for yourself whether it's true. The Lord will prove it to you. Take the challenge, what do you have to lose?

I can honestly say that I've not read the entire Book of Mormon, but I know it's history and basic story.

Thanks, but pass. ​

Shame The Devil and tell the truth I'd pass on Mormonism simply for it's association with The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran, but I do know a bit about Joseph Smith's history and his writings and thoughts.

​

You are the one who wanted God to defend His Holy Book. The Book of Mormon has a promise that God will do just that if you follow the promise. Makes me think you don't really want God to prove anything.

 

[Hollie]

Read the Book of Mormon. It provides a way for you to learn for yourself whether it's true. The Lord will prove it to you. Take the challenge, what do you have to lose?

There's just that pesky issue of the golden plates thing.

Why is fraud and misrepresentation such a consistent theme surrounding tales of the gods and the men who invent these gods?

You mean the plates which were seen by a dozen people who upheld their witness until death despite having every incentive to renounce their witness? Those plates?

You mean the golden plates a few people claimed to seen as a few people claim to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Those plates, the ones that don't exist?

 

[Avatar4321]

There's just that pesky issue of the golden plates thing.

Why is fraud and misrepresentation such a consistent theme surrounding tales of the gods and the men who invent these gods?

You mean the plates which were seen by a dozen people who upheld their witness until death despite having every incentive to renounce their witness? Those plates?

You mean the golden plates a few people claimed to seen as a few people claim to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Those plates, the ones that don't exist?

People have been murdered for claiming to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Who knew?

 

[Hollie]

You mean the plates which were seen by a dozen people who upheld their witness until death despite having every incentive to renounce their witness? Those plates?

You mean the golden plates a few people claimed to seen as a few people claim to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Those plates, the ones that don't exist?

People have been murdered for claiming to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Who knew?

People have falsified claims to Bigfoot and Nessie as people have falsified claims to other objects, events and circumstances and for many reasons.

Golden plates, Books of the Dead, contact with angels, etc. How curious that there is so often a resounding lack of evidence for these claims.

Who knew? Well, we know because fraud feeds on fear and superstition.

 

[Avatar4321]

You mean the golden plates a few people claimed to seen as a few people claim to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Those plates, the ones that don't exist?

People have been murdered for claiming to have seen Bigfoot and Nessie?

Who knew?

People have falsified claims to Bigfoot and Nessie as people have falsified claims to other objects, events and circumstances and for many reasons.

Golden plates, Books of the Dead, contact with angels, etc. How curious that there is so often a resounding lack of evidence for these claims.

Who knew? Well, we know because fraud feeds on fear and superstition.

There is plenty of evidence. The Book of Mormon is 512 pages of evidence. It exists. It had to come from somewhere and the attempts to explain it away man made fraud are pretty weak arguments. You can hold you. You can read it. You could examine it for yourself. Moreover, you can ask the Lord whether it's true.

You just choose not to examine it.

Interestingly enough I just read an article that seems relevant to this discussion:

Defending the Faith: Too many credible gospel witnesses to believe they all lied | Deseret News

Joseph Smith is a very interesting person. Particularly because he didn't just tell people he spoke with the Lord with only his word for it. But because he invited other people to speak with the Lord as well. He invited people to go to the Lord and receive their own witness to the work.

And the more of his writings I see, the less I find credible the idea that he was lying. He sincerely believed everything he taught. His private writings, the ones never intended for publication as completely consistent with what he taught. And after almost 200 years, there are no credible alternatives to his story.

I invite you again to read the Book of Mormon for yourself. I invite everyone to. I've read it countless times and I can tell you that the Spirit has told me that the Book of Mormon is true. And like I said, you don't have to take Joseph's word for it, or my own. You can read it for yourself and ask the Lord and He will reveal it to you.

 

[The Irish Ram]

According to the ancient stories.


It's interesting how thousands of years later those stories can still roll off a keyboard like they were established fact.

`​

From a believer's point of view ... they are established fact. I believe the historical record of Jesus Christ is 100% true and accurate. There's not a soul on earth who can prove me wrong.

So?

That opinion and $4 will get you a hot and tasty beverage at Starbuck$. Doesn't mean it happened.

I say that The New Testament is bullshit that was written 70 years after the events by educated people with religious persecution and a political ax to grind, and there's not a soul on earth who can prove me wrong.

Whats next? War?

A war that has the capability of annihilating all life on earth. Some one 2000 years before the event happens even told us who, what, where, and when.

I can prove you wrong. I'm game.

 

[indiajo]

From a believer's point of view ... they are established fact. I believe the historical record of Jesus Christ is 100% true and accurate. There's not a soul on earth who can prove me wrong.

Yes there is. Because there is NO HISTORICAL RECORD of Jesus. Not one single verifiable fact. Get yourself some education what historical records are.
Third party fantasy stories ar not.

There are actually courtyard protocols of disciples who were sued for violating jewish law, preaching against some of their religious orders like kosher food and things like that.
As far as I rememberit it was Paulus and one other.
This was after the alledged crucification of Jesus, but his name was not mentioned one time in the whole protocols. They did not refer to Jesus. So, what the hell were this disciples doing if they were not preaching the realm of their resurrected lord?

You can dig as deep as you like, you will not in hundred years find any historical record of Jesus. Zero. Nothing. All you find in the bible is at the earliest dated around 70 years A.D., interestingly this is exact the time where the Romans wiped out the jewish community in Palestine and destroyed THE temple. And 70 A.D. no eyewitness could be alive by any means.

 

[Chuckt]

First Deity to defend His Holy Book in the here and now, gets my worship.

Jus' sayin'

Read the Book of Mormon. It provides a way for you to learn for yourself whether it's true. The Lord will prove it to you. Take the challenge, what do you have to lose?

Eternity

 

[DriftingSand]

First Deity to defend His Holy Book in the here and now, gets my worship.

Jus' sayin'

Chirst's church is the "body of Christ." The body of Christ defends His Word. Start worshiping.

 

[DriftingSand]

From a believer's point of view ... they are established fact. I believe the historical record of Jesus Christ is 100% true and accurate. There's not a soul on earth who can prove me wrong.

Yes there is. Because there is NO HISTORICAL RECORD of Jesus. Not one single verifiable fact. Get yourself some education what historical records are.
Third party fantasy stories ar not.

There are actually courtyard protocols of disciples who were sued for violating jewish law, preaching against some of their religious orders like kosher food and things like that.
As far as I rememberit it was Paulus and one other.
This was after the alledged crucification of Jesus, but his name was not mentioned one time in the whole protocols. They did not refer to Jesus. So, what the hell were this disciples doing if they were not preaching the realm of their resurrected lord?

You can dig as deep as you like, you will not in hundred years find any historical record of Jesus. Zero. Nothing. All you find in the bible is at the earliest dated around 70 years A.D., interestingly this is exact the time where the Romans wiped out the jewish community in Palestine and destroyed THE temple. And 70 A.D. no eyewitness could be alive by any means.

There are historical records (even secular for your benefit) of Jesus. You're mistaken:

Physical Description of Jesus

Ancient Secular History Speaks About Jesus

The Historicity of Jesus Christ: Did Jesus really exist?

THE OLDEST SECULAR ACCOUNTS & HISTORICAL EVIDENCE ON THE EXISTANCE OF JESUS

For starters. I realize that you and Hollie will say that it's faulty history because it doesn't fit your preconceptions but I don't really care what you and Hollie think.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

From a believer's point of view ... they are established fact. I believe the historical record of Jesus Christ is 100% true and accurate. There's not a soul on earth who can prove me wrong.

Yes there is. Because there is NO HISTORICAL RECORD of Jesus. Not one single verifiable fact. Get yourself some education what historical records are.
Third party fantasy stories ar not.

There are actually courtyard protocols of disciples who were sued for violating jewish law, preaching against some of their religious orders like kosher food and things like that.
As far as I rememberit it was Paulus and one other.
This was after the alledged crucification of Jesus, but his name was not mentioned one time in the whole protocols. They did not refer to Jesus. So, what the hell were this disciples doing if they were not preaching the realm of their resurrected lord?

You can dig as deep as you like, you will not in hundred years find any historical record of Jesus. Zero. Nothing. All you find in the bible is at the earliest dated around 70 years A.D., interestingly this is exact the time where the Romans wiped out the jewish community in Palestine and destroyed THE temple. And 70 A.D. no eyewitness could be alive by any means.

You mean besides the Gospels and the Roman historians, right?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Let me ask a question. What do you think Plato thought about this quote?

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
Plato

 

[AVG-JOE]

Except the Children of Israel saw the Pillar of Cloud by day and the Fire of God by night. They saw the miracles. They heard the voice of God and they still disobeyed and fell away. Many of them died in the wilderness. They had everything including the most perfect lawgiver and still failed so when people want to find God on their own merit, these are the footsteps you are following in and the children of Israel who died in the wilderness will be many people's examples.

According to the ancient stories.


It's interesting how thousands of years later those stories can still roll off a keyboard like they were established fact.

`​

The Truth is like that

What TRUTH?!?

There's no truth in the ancient stories, just opinions. When it comes to the questions of origins and after-life, OPINIONS IS ALL THERE IS. Death remains a one-way ticket punched only once.

You want truth? Here's the historic truth - The New Testament was based on oral traditions and STORIES, written at least 40 years after the death of Jesus of Nazareth, and written by people under political and religious duress at the time.

https://www.google.com/search?q=new...&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQsAQ&biw=1470&bih=775#imgdii=_
http://biblehub.com/timeline/new.htm

I simply do not believe that Jesus walked out of his tomb. No matter what kind of 'visions' Saul/Paul had about the events some 40+ years later.

Fool me once...​

 

[The Irish Ram]

Joe, I answered your question....

 

[AVG-JOE]

First Deity to defend His Holy Book in the here and now, gets my worship.

Jus' sayin'

Chirst's church is the "body of Christ." The body of Christ defends His Word. Start worshiping.

Not exactly the exposed hand of a Deity, now is it.

First Deity to defend His Book. Followers defend by definition.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Joe?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

According to the ancient stories.


It's interesting how thousands of years later those stories can still roll off a keyboard like they were established fact.

`​

The Truth is like that

What TRUTH?!?

There's no truth in the ancient stories, just opinions. When it comes to the questions of origins and after-life, OPINIONS IS ALL THERE IS. Death remains a one-way ticket punched only once.

You want truth? Here's the historic truth - The New Testament was based on oral traditions and STORIES, written at least 40 years after the death of Jesus of Nazareth, and written by people under political and religious duress at the time.

https://www.google.com/search?q=new...&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQsAQ&biw=1470&bih=775#imgdii=_
http://biblehub.com/timeline/new.htm

I simply do not believe that Jesus walked out of his tomb. No matter what kind of 'visions' Saul/Paul had about the events some 40+ years later.

Fool me once...​

Troy was a legend too.

Jesus prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed after his death and gave his followers a warning that had to be acted on IMMEDIATELY. When they saw the sign the faithful fled and were saved. That's history

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk