Go Green they said

[Manonthestreet]

The company is saying it will be six months to a year-long delay, but, given the waiting times for transformers in the US have blown out to an astounding 120 weeks, and up to 210 weeks or 2 to 4 years, it seems wildly optimistic to hope this can be back in action next year. Currently the AEMO officially describes this fault as continuing until May 3rd, 2026. Another Battery Catastrophe | Power Line
Battery storage is the way forward.........oooops. Not ready for prime. How much govt money is pissed away chasing their green god

 

[gtopa1]

The company is saying it will be six months to a year-long delay, but, given the waiting times for transformers in the US have blown out to an astounding 120 weeks, and up to 210 weeks or 2 to 4 years, it seems wildly optimistic to hope this can be back in action next year. Currently the AEMO officially describes this fault as continuing until May 3rd, 2026. Another Battery Catastrophe | Power Line
Battery storage is the way forward.........oooops. Not ready for prime. How much govt money is pissed away chasing their green god

The technology is fantastic...just a shame it isn't fit for purpose(not reliable and cheap). When it finally is then great; but until then it's a waste of money.

Greg

 

[Mushroom]

Battery storage is the way forward.........oooops. Not ready for prime. How much govt money is pissed away chasing their green god

The only really "efficient" electric storage method I have seen is pumped storage. It's a very mature and proven system, and has been in use for over 100 years. None of the multiple gravity batteries or anything else has been anything other than a money pit.

This is just trying to avoid that the majority of the "green power" solutions are really not all that good. And if it relies upon any kind of batteries as in actual batteries, then there are much deeper problems with their plan.

But most of what I call "Green Idiots" do not want simple, low tech and cost effective solutions. They want the most expensive and convoluted systems they can dream up, does not matter if they actually work or not.

 

[ReinyDays]

The only really "efficient" electric storage method I have seen is pumped storage. It's a very mature and proven system, and has been in use for over 100 years. None of the multiple gravity batteries or anything else has been anything other than a money pit.

This is just trying to avoid that the majority of the "green power" solutions are really not all that good. And if it relies upon any kind of batteries as in actual batteries, then there are much deeper problems with their plan.

But most of what I call "Green Idiots" do not want simple, low tech and cost effective solutions. They want the most expensive and convoluted systems they can dream up, does not matter if they actually work or not.

Very true ...

Folks will install solar panels for electricity to run their clothes dryer on sunny days ... instead of hanging the laundry on a line out in the sun ... carbon-intensive EVs instead of bicycles ... US Message Board instead of local coffee shop ...

The list of "green" waste goes on ...

 

[Dekster]

Transformers are transformers no matter what the source of generation. Data centers are eating up a lot of the supply, but also cities like mine have been working to upgrade their grids to something more state of the art than WW2 era infrastructure, and that adds to the backlog.

 

[elektra]

The only really "efficient" electric storage method I have seen is pumped storage.

Pumped storage uses more electricity than it creates a lot more.

 

[Mushroom]

Pumped storage uses more electricity than it creates a lot more.

That is not the point. It uses power in the off-peak hours, so it can release it and get power during the peak hours.

And that is how electricity works. It has to be used when generated, or wasted. So why not use the excess power that would usually be wasted to operate water as a battery?

Plus it uses a fungible medium that is also valuable for other reasons.

 

[sparky]

And the grid, once again, is rescued by an old coal plant that keeps running


nuff said.......~S~

 

[ReinyDays]

That is not the point. It uses power in the off-peak hours, so it can release it and get power during the peak hours.

And that is how electricity works. It has to be used when generated, or wasted. So why not use the excess power that would usually be wasted to operate water as a battery?

Plus it uses a fungible medium that is also valuable for other reasons.

Because we aren't "wasting" that energy ... we aren't creating it ... if the electricity isn't needed, then we stop burning coal or natural gas ... or stop releasing water out the dam ...

Pumped storage is very inefficient ... and can be dangerous (20 minute video from our good friend Grady) ...

 

[Captain Caveman]

Stop putting the cart infront of the horse. Get the technology designed, built, and running. And once it's all working, then close the coal power plant. Morons run every country.

 

[ReinyDays]

Stop putting the cart infront of the horse. Get the technology designed, built, and running. And once it's all working, then close the coal power plant. Morons run every country.

We're not replacing fossil fuels with these new energy technologies ... we're just using more energy ... these coal power plants will stay on-line until the coal runs out ...

 

[Manonthestreet]

 

[Mushroom]

View attachment 1187225

99% of "Green Energy" claims are really just greenwashing. Like ignoring the huge amounts of CO2 emitted from front to back in creating things like solar panels and modern batteries. Yeah, only "green" if you ignore all that was done to create the panel in the first place.

Especially since most of them are made in the nation with the least amount of environmental regulations on the planet, and seems to have no problem turning their own nation into a wasteland in order to make money.

You can really tell how little most people who believe nonsense like that really understand science. I can't even count the number of times I have heard such people praise concrete buildings, and promote using concrete over wood because it's "green".

Yeah, just ignore the massive amounts of CO2 released when the concrete was made in the first place. For those that do not know, that is when limestone (CaCO3) is heated to high temperatures in a kiln (which requires some kind of energy) in order to calcinate it. Which ends in the creation of Calcium Oxide (CaO), and releases CO2 as a waste product. Now as the concrete cures it will absorb some of that CO2 back, but nowhere near as much as was released in the transformation from limestone to concrete, and the energy used to change it in the first place.

For some reason, the "Green Energy" fanatics always ignore everything involved in making the things that make their green energy. Or the damage that such might do to the environment in the end. And it has really always fascinated me how most "Green Energy" types absolutely despise hydropower.

 

[sealybobo]

The company is saying it will be six months to a year-long delay, but, given the waiting times for transformers in the US have blown out to an astounding 120 weeks, and up to 210 weeks or 2 to 4 years, it seems wildly optimistic to hope this can be back in action next year. Currently the AEMO officially describes this fault as continuing until May 3rd, 2026. Another Battery Catastrophe | Power Line
Battery storage is the way forward.........oooops. Not ready for prime. How much govt money is pissed away chasing their green god

Thank god I put in solar panals and windmill huh?

Now I see that Republicans are just like Democrats. Democrats don't mind paying more taxes so that we have social safety nets and social programs like social security and medicare. We will pay a little more so that everyone in insured.

Republicans will pay more in tariffs if that will help business' profit more. After Republicans gave those companies tax breaks. And Republicans don't mind endless wars if that will help the military industrial complex. And they certainly don't mind the president profiting from it. Unless it's a Democrat. Remember Republicans accused the Biden crime family of stealing $20 million over 20 years in 20 LLC's? Trump has stole $500 billion in 500 llc's in just 1 year alone.

 

[Manonthestreet]

What's the disposal fee on a solar panel.......

 

[Crick]

The company is saying it will be six months to a year-long delay, but, given the waiting times for transformers in the US have blown out to an astounding 120 weeks, and up to 210 weeks or 2 to 4 years, it seems wildly optimistic to hope this can be back in action next year. Currently the AEMO officially describes this fault as continuing until May 3rd, 2026. Another Battery Catastrophe | Power Line
Battery storage is the way forward.........oooops. Not ready for prime. How much govt money is pissed away chasing their green god

The text of your linked article tells us that the problem was not in the batteries, per se, but in the transformers. Did you actuallly mean to tell us that transformers are a bad idea?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That is not the point. It uses power in the off-peak hours, so it can release it and get power during the peak hours.

And that is how electricity works. It has to be used when generated, or wasted. So why not use the excess power that would usually be wasted to operate water as a battery?

Plus it uses a fungible medium that is also valuable for other reasons.

What excess power? Generators do not create excess power. A decreased load reduces the fuel need to generate said power. You would be adding demand and thus using more fuel.

 

[Mushroom]

What excess power? Generators do not create excess power. A decreased load reduces the fuel need to generate said power. You would be adding demand and thus using more fuel.

Wow, really?

I guess you missed that these are placed in tandem with two hydroelectric dams.

There is no "generator" on a hydroelectric dam, just a turbine. And the fuel is literally water. That is exactly what they are doing, moving water from a lower reservoir back up to an upper reservoir.

Hydroelectric dams generally pump out a hell of a lot of power, and are constantly releasing water. They have to do that because there are requirements downstream for the water. And during off-peak hours when the demand for electricity is low, they use that excess power to pump it back up to the upper reservoir.

Many many years ago when I worked for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, I worked at the Jensen Filtration Plant. And that is just downstream of Castaic Lake. Which is downstream of Pyramid Lake, and also connected to it via tunnels.

And between those two lakes and the filtration plant, there are four power production facilities. One at each reservoir, and two more on the pipelines that carry water from the California Aqueduct to the filtration plant.

During peak operating hours (daytime), all four of those will be producing power. But in off-peak hours, most of that power is then diverted to pump about 10,000 acre feet of water from Castaic back to Pyramid Lake per day.

So tell me, exactly what generators are being used to do this? What fuel is being consumed?

Oh, and until COVID you night remember that I lived in Oroville. That is also a pumped storage complex. With Lake Oroville providing the a significant amount of power to that part of California. And when released, that water flows into the "Thermalito Complex", not so much a reservoir but a containment area. And at night, it then pumps water back into Lake Oroville.

Just the Edward Hyatt Power Plant alone puts out almost 650 MW of power. But the pumps for returning water comes from the Thermalito power plant, around 3.5 MW.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Wow, really?

I guess you missed that these are placed in tandem with two hydroelectric dams.

There is no "generator" on a hydroelectric dam, just a turbine. And the fuel is literally water. That is exactly what they are doing, moving water from a lower reservoir back up to an upper reservoir.

Hydroelectric dams generally pump out a hell of a lot of power, and are constantly releasing water. They have to do that because there are requirements downstream for the water. And during off-peak hours when the demand for electricity is low, they use that excess power to pump it back up to the upper reservoir.

Many many years ago when I worked for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, I worked at the Jensen Filtration Plant. And that is just downstream of Castaic Lake. Which is downstream of Pyramid Lake, and also connected to it via tunnels.

And between those two lakes and the filtration plant, there are four power production facilities. One at each reservoir, and two more on the pipelines that carry water from the California Aqueduct to the filtration plant.

During peak operating hours (daytime), all four of those will be producing power. But in off-peak hours, most of that power is then diverted to pump about 10,000 acre feet of water from Castaic back to Pyramid Lake per day.

So tell me, exactly what generators are being used to do this? What fuel is being consumed?

Oh, and until COVID you night remember that I lived in Oroville. That is also a pumped storage complex. With Lake Oroville providing the a significant amount of power to that part of California. And when released, that water flows into the "Thermalito Complex", not so much a reservoir but a containment area. And at night, it then pumps water back into Lake Oroville.

Just the Edward Hyatt Power Plant alone puts out almost 650 MW of power. But the pumps for returning water comes from the Thermalito power plant, around 3.5 MW.

Sorry! Didn't read that part.

 

[Mushroom]

Sorry! Didn't read that part.

Tis cool. But unlike generators, hydro dams are always producing power because they are always releasing water. And during off-peak hours they generally produce a lot of excess power. So a great use for that if the terrain allows for it is to use that in conjunction with a pumped storage configuration.

Plus it has other benefits, like impounding more water for other uses, reducing the demand on the water impounded in the main reservoir, and increased capacity for flood control. Years ago I had a neighbor that worked at Thermalito tell me that between the two Oroville actually runs around 150% capacity even in dry years. That extra is the amount pumped back to the main reservoir.

I wish that more reservoirs would use pumped storage.