Giving 'God' a bad name?

Gurdari

Egaliterra
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
1,019
Reaction score
40
Points
36
Location
the West
Question for the more religious and the less religious people:

Do you feel many religious people give God (or at least their religion) a bad name by promoting ideas that make God seem petty, mean spirited, or prejudiced?

I'm asking in regards to your fellow citizens... have they 'hijacked' Christianity (for example)?
 

JeffWartman

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
1,309
Reaction score
102
Points
48
Location
Suburban Chicago
I will say one thing -- NO ONE on this planet is as judgmental as hardcore Christians. NO ONE.
 

jillian

Princess
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
84,492
Reaction score
16,378
Points
2,220
Location
The Other Side of Paradise
I will say one thing -- NO ONE on this planet is as judgmental as hardcore Christians. NO ONE.
I wouldn't lay that at the feet of "hardcore" Christians. I think fundamentalists of any stripe tend to be judgmental and there are certainly groups that express that in far more violent ways than Christians do.
 

Vintij

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
105
Points
48
Location
Anaheim, CA
Well organized religion in general is scrutinized for its judement on non believers and vice versa. Though some religions have the right idea, i do believe that christians give christianity a bad name. If only they would actually follow what christianity is all about rather than not read a word of anything and go on believing what everyone tells them. In my opinion, christians are too easy to manipulate, and the 04 elections are proof. As well as the invasion of iraq.

Being Gay for instance, is a sin in the bible.....though homophobia and hate crimes are not, and many white bread middle american christians love to bash gays and then say its ok because its in the bible. Well its not, not even in the old king james version.

Revenge is another one, it says "eye for an eye" in the bible. But almost all christians will say, that means revenge when infact, based on scientific research of the old hebrew scriptures, it does'nt. It was based on material goods, it means trade good for goods, or if someone takes something from you, take the same thing back. Christians confuse this with the miracle of life and death. Like if someone bombs our country, then god makes it ok to kill thousands of innocent people in retaliation.

I mean there is nothing wrong with christianity, its just the uneducated christianity that gives religion a bad name.

Thats why i get frustrated with the majority of america, how they are manipulated from birth, grow up enclosed in a small town uneducated, and have the power to vote in whoever they want to lead the country based on values and morals from a bible they never read. I mean cmon, half the christians will even say the old testamen does'nt count because that was a more violent time in defense to some of the popes decisions to eliminate entire communitys!?!? THen turn around and quote the old testamen with "eye for an eye" lets nuke iran!!! Christians pick and choose the parts of the bible that relate to them. And defend those parts like nobody else, and when asked about the origins of the bible or the parts that are violent, they have no clue what your talking about.

Its just ridiculess.
 

5stringJeff

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2003
Messages
9,990
Reaction score
542
Points
48
Location
Puyallup, WA
As an evangelical Christian, I say that there are only a few people I think are "hijacking" the faith. The Gods-hates-fags church is one such group. Another group is the conservative Christians who can't untie conservative political policies from their faith (although I myself am both a political conservative and a Christian).
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,795
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
Well organized religion in general is scrutinized for its judement on non believers and vice versa. Though some religions have the right idea, i do believe that christians give christianity a bad name. If only they would actually follow what christianity is all about rather than not read a word of anything and go on believing what everyone tells them. In my opinion, christians are too easy to manipulate, and the 04 elections are proof. As well as the invasion of iraq.

Being Gay for instance, is a sin in the bible.....though homophobia and hate crimes are not, and many white bread middle american christians love to bash gays and then say its ok because its in the bible. Well its not, not even in the old king james version.

Revenge is another one, it says "eye for an eye" in the bible. But almost all christians will say, that means revenge when infact, based on scientific research of the old hebrew scriptures, it does'nt. It was based on material goods, it means trade good for goods, or if someone takes something from you, take the same thing back. Christians confuse this with the miracle of life and death. Like if someone bombs our country, then god makes it ok to kill thousands of innocent people in retaliation.

I mean there is nothing wrong with christianity, its just the uneducated christianity that gives religion a bad name.

Thats why i get frustrated with the majority of america, how they are manipulated from birth, grow up enclosed in a small town uneducated, and have the power to vote in whoever they want to lead the country based on values and morals from a bible they never read. I mean cmon, half the christians will even say the old testamen does'nt count because that was a more violent time in defense to some of the popes decisions to eliminate entire communitys!?!? THen turn around and quote the old testamen with "eye for an eye" lets nuke iran!!! Christians pick and choose the parts of the bible that relate to them. And defend those parts like nobody else, and when asked about the origins of the bible or the parts that are violent, they have no clue what your talking about.

Its just ridiculess.
A majority of Americans
grow up enclosed in a small town uneducated, and have the power to vote in whoever they want to lead the country based on values and morals from a bible they never read.
?
 

Vintij

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
105
Points
48
Location
Anaheim, CA
A majority of Americans ?

yea a MAJORITY, not california. Majority means 56 million americans who voted for Bush AGAIN, after he already fucked up.

Which means instead of learning from our mistakes, america votes for BUSH AGAIN because he said he knew how to get us out! Manipulation that worked right? Name one southern, conservative dominated state that john kerry won? Exactly, because he does not have "morals" like Mr bush does right?
 

LOki

The Yaweh of Mischief
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
4,084
Reaction score
358
Points
85
Do you feel many religious people give God (or at least their religion) a bad name by promoting ideas that make God seem petty, mean spirited, or prejudiced?
Yes.
 

Scooter

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
164
Reaction score
27
Points
46
As an evangelical Christian, I say that there are only a few people I think are "hijacking" the faith. The Gods-hates-fags church is one such group. Another group is the conservative Christians who can't untie conservative political policies from their faith (although I myself am both a political conservative and a Christian).
As a Catholic Christian, it seems to me that this is an accurate assesment.

My sense is that much of "real" Christianity is fairly revolutionary from a socio-political perspective and in fact quite lacking in judgement of others.

Previous input seems to focus on the Old Testament applications that fundamentalist Christian groups tend to get in trouble over. In reality, New Testament/Gospel teachings are what Christianity should be about.
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,795
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
yea a MAJORITY, not california. Majority means 56 million americans who voted for Bush AGAIN, after he already fucked up.

Which means instead of learning from our mistakes, america votes for BUSH AGAIN because he said he knew how to get us out! Manipulation that worked right? Name one southern, conservative dominated state that john kerry won? Exactly, because he does not have "morals" like Mr bush does right?
You have no idea why people voted the way they did---with basically 2 choices, they chose Bush over Kerry. It may just mean they thought Kerry was more likely to make worse mistakes. Your psuedo-intellectualism is quite bigoted.
 

Vintij

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
105
Points
48
Location
Anaheim, CA
You have no idea why people voted the way they did---with basically 2 choices, they chose Bush over Kerry. It may just mean they thought Kerry was more likely to make worse mistakes. Your psuedo-intellectualism is quite bigoted.

I think its safe to say, they were wrong. A chiuawawa on a cold day would have made better decisions than bush. Mr flip flop kerry would have made better choices, ANYBODY would have made better choices. Maybe even YOU....but thats a long shot
 

LOki

The Yaweh of Mischief
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
4,084
Reaction score
358
Points
85
I like pie. Make me President.
 

Eightball

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
252
Points
48
I think the issue that's forgotten here is that many will claim to be Christians and will be shocked when the Lord Jesus say's, "I don't know you!".

Meaning, that what the above posters call bad examples of Christians, are folks that may only think they're Christians, because they attend a Christian church, or their parents were Christian, or they intellectually believe in Jesus, but not in their hearts in a sacrificial, contrite, humble and repentant way.

Intellectual accent by the world, saying that Jesus did what He did, does not qualify an individual as a Christian, therefore many will claim to be Christians by reason of association with groups, churches, people or belief systems, good works, but will not be true Christians.

A true Christian: Is one who "Jesus" says/said is born from above, or born again, spiritually. They have received the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost, or the Counselor, or the third person of the trinity of God almighty, the "I AM", by an act of God, not by their works of charity, intellectual ascent or good works.

A true Christian will have a life that is reflected in change in attitude, in the areas of worldly needs, priorities, habitualy sin, and human relational aspects. Conservative politics will not be their priority-mantra, but glorifying God will supercede all things. Love of the unlovely, and even of enemies will mark them as weird by the World or the secular community. To love your enemy is not to agree with your enemy, but to love your enemy as fellow, imperfect, human beings as yourself, yet knowing that you have received God's mercy and desire it to be realized by others/enemies too.

As much as Conservatives and even those that claim to be Christians will say the harshest, and meanest things about their critiques......i.e. Ted Kennedy, Jane Fonda, Howard Dean, Rosie O'donnel.....etc......God still loves these folks and wants them to come into His fold. Do we who claim to be Christians, actually pray for these folks with earnest? Do we ask God to bring an understanding into these before-mentioned folks of His love, mercy and grace, or do we ask God to remove them or bring blight upon them to punish them?

We must remember as Christians that once we were enemies of God, when we were in zero fellowship with God. There was a time when we thought being a Christian might have been just thinking/believing Jesus was a wise and good fellow, and nothing more. There may have been a time when we even acted out our lives just like the Kennedy's, O'donnels, Dean's, Fonda's, too, but now see through different spiritual eyes. Do we look down on those that differ politically/religiously from us? Is that what was typified by Jesus's life as revealed in scripture? No! Jesus did not curse his enemies, nor did he ignore them. He entertained all people.........and welcomed a willness in people who wanted to know the truth. The truth was not a comfortable thing to hear from Jesus's lips, yet those that were willing to look at themselves objectively, were rewarded for their honest willingness to change through God's total help.

Basically, the true Christian will gradually change in their lives to a more Christlike, biblical behaviour, and personality.
****
I tire of those that use the monikers of hard core, or fundamentalist Christian to typify what Christianity is. This argument from the non-Christian, only temporarily assuages the guilt that all humanity must live with until they relinquish it to God through honest repentance, and introspection of their lives.

Just crack open the bible and read the first hand accounts of Jesus's life, and you will see vast differences between what the secular world, or non-Christians define what is true Christianity is, versus their argumentative and skewed-away of a notable Christian leader/preacher of a church or organization is brandished across the media wires, superceding all other news? It's because Christianity exudes God's truth and way versus man's homemade version of truth and perfection. Man tries to mimic God's mercy yet holds God at arms length. Man is inherently fallen, but cannot or is not willing to own-up to that. The pain of being "wrong" is too much in man's eyes/soul. He/man must be at the helm of his ship of life. He see's no other alternative except the frightful mystery of God's alternative, that he/she believes, entails "letting go" and "letting God", and losing self identity/control. Man fears that he will or must give up enjoying life, and will be constrained in discomfort when embracing God. This is the lie of the Enemy of man's soul. He works in concert with fallen man to keep man from taking what seems to him a life-constraining risk in trusting what God says. He, the Enemy of man's soul paints God as the cruel, restrictive taskmaster, that has no sense of humor, and no room for human enjoyment/recreation. This is all lies from the Pit, yet man has been sold into bondage to the the one who is inevitably bound for that hell hole.

God is not your earthly mother or father. He is perfect in every way possible. He doesn't make mistakes in disciplining those that He loves. He is likened to a Good Shepherd that watches His sheep with such acuity, that no wolf/enemy can snatch one of His from his fold. He not only watches His sheep, He seeks them out from the bramble and the bushes of life where they helplessly entangle themselves. He loves His sheep and His sheep love Him and they know His voice.
******
Jesus had concern for the poor, but was more interested in the spiritually poor, not the materially poor(Sermon On The Mount - Matthew). God was not calloused towards the materially poor, as evidenced in accounts both in the O.T. and N.T.. Bottom line is this folks; whether a person is materially poor or not, wealth/material possessions, will not add one iota to their being "saved" in God's economy. God is interested in the "heart" of humans, not their status, or their good deeds. Good deeds can have all kinds of motives..........to please, to assuage self guilt, to impress, win favor, win recognition, etc.. Although the deeds of true Christians will not always be from good reasoning/intentions, often they will, in most cases be interpretted by the secular world as harsh at times, or too forgiving at other times.

The deeds or lives of Christians are to be sacrificial in every aspect.........as a resultant commitment or a life offering because of the unmerited favor/mercy given them and all mankind via God's son. I.E. a thankful life. A thankful-based life has a hard time being embittered or "hard", as typified by many who claim be Christians.
****
It is up to mankind to accept God's mercy, and His often mysterious wisdom in how things orchestrate-out for both us personally and the world as a whole. The world may seem at times to get better and then cyclically get bad again, yet the overall trend is downward, as said by scripture. Inevitably it will culminate in Christ's second advent.

Know this for sure, that God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son.......That we/us fallible humans could have life everlasting in communion with Him. God has been orchestrating a restoration process for thousands of years with human kind. We, humans have the one responsibility to acknowledge and come out of our self-seeking, agrandizing lives, and let the cataracts fall off our eyes spiritually and see things for what they really are.

True Christians will do wrong things. They will sin, but they will not make a habit of it, as they will be constantly convicted in their souls about it by the Helper, the Holy Spirit, that now resides hand-in-hand with their human spirit that was once dead to God and is now alive to God through Jesus Christ's, human-life, attoning work.

The world will continue to monitor and judge Christianity by what it wants Christianity to be.......imperfect, and unharmful towards those that reject God.

People don't hate Christians, they hate God; God as revealed in the bible. Christians in most cases make the unsaved uncomfortable, because the Spirit of God in the true Christian's life is ever-working to touch others through that Christian's life. God is seeking human lives to save and bring into the fold of fellowship with Him.

It can't happen unless human kind gets off of it's own constructed podium of self assurance, self contentment, and self vindication, and admits that it hasn't, can't, and will not in the future be able to change it's basic inner nature on it's own. Man has not changed from His inception/creation. He seeks to be like God, and to control his/her own destiny in every aspect. He/she may allow God to partially co-pilot their life, but it's in reality just superficial, and not a deep-hearted commitment of the soul.

Isn't it interesting how most folks who are true Christians, in most cases have come to this new identity after realizing that they were weak human vessels, that couldn't really cope with life, and all it dishes out. They were once folks who had to be in control of everything, and now with a peaceful sigh, can gladly allow God to hold the reigns and lead in all aspects.

A contrite, repentant heart/soul is foreign to the non-Christian world, yet biblically that is the doorway of a human soul to enter into the eternal life/communion with God through His Son's crucified, ressurrected, and ascended life.
 

Vintij

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
105
Points
48
Location
Anaheim, CA
I agree with most of the stuff you are stating. I used to be catholic, until i read of the old testamen, and formed my own opinions about who can talk to god and who cant. I dont believe i should have to confess my sins to a priest who has devoted his life to jesus, that does'nt make him jesus nore does that give him power to repent my sins through prayer. I was christian for awhile because i loved the energy of the pastors and i believe they are true to the word of the lord, though i hated the comercialism, the fact that church has to be fun, and they try to lure you in by offering food and prizes. Muslim is even a form of christianity, taken from old hebrew scripts of the king james version. And ofcourse twisted beyond belief. Hinduism has no christian roots, though the scriptures date back to even before jesus christ was born. Jews dont really accept anyone as another jew unless your born that way, and right now there are less than 1% jews in the world. Scientology is a joke, and whoever follows it is stupid and weak minded.

So i guess my question to you is, dont you believe that we should have our own relationship with god, i dont agree with most religions but i believe in parts of all religions. Does that make me athiest? Organized religion is exactly that, organized groups that believe they are right. So what about my own religion within myself? I pray on my own, i think on my own, i dont follow anyone, but the lord, which i believe to be a manifestation of everything. Since the lord created life, the lord is life. Basically, im highly influenced by gahndi and his teachings. But i dont believe him to be some kind of jesus. I believe there is only one jesus,who will prolly return in about 3 billion years when we are about to destroy ourselves as humans. But i dont expect a return anytime soon.
 

boedicca

Uppity Water Nymph
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
55,649
Reaction score
17,720
Points
2,250
Location
The Land of Funk
I will say one thing -- NO ONE on this planet is as judgmental as hardcore Christians. NO ONE.

Really? I think women who have been burned alive in "mercy" killings under Wahhabism might disagree. So would the millions of victims of Communism and Socialism, which are just secular relgions that substitute The State for God.
 

Eightball

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
252
Points
48
I agree with most of the stuff you are stating. I used to be catholic, until i read of the old testamen, and formed my own opinions about who can talk to god and who cant. I dont believe i should have to confess my sins to a priest who has devoted his life to jesus, that does'nt make him jesus nore does that give him power to repent my sins through prayer. I was christian for awhile because i loved the energy of the pastors and i believe they are true to the word of the lord, though i hated the comercialism, the fact that church has to be fun, and they try to lure you in by offering food and prizes. Muslim is even a form of christianity, taken from old hebrew scripts of the king james version. And ofcourse twisted beyond belief. Hinduism has no christian roots, though the scriptures date back to even before jesus christ was born. Jews dont really accept anyone as another jew unless your born that way, and right now there are less than 1% jews in the world. Scientology is a joke, and whoever follows it is stupid and weak minded.

So i guess my question to you is, dont you believe that we should have our own relationship with god, i dont agree with most religions but i believe in parts of all religions. Does that make me athiest? Organized religion is exactly that, organized groups that believe they are right. So what about my own religion within myself? I pray on my own, i think on my own, i dont follow anyone, but the lord, which i believe to be a manifestation of everything. Since the lord created life, the lord is life. Basically, im highly influenced by gahndi and his teachings. But i dont believe him to be some kind of jesus. I believe there is only one jesus,who will prolly return in about 3 billion years when we are about to destroy ourselves as humans. But i dont expect a return anytime soon.
I couldn't agree with you more about the personal relationship aspect with God.

Actually that's the very tenets of biblical or scriptural Christianity.

It isn't by association, good or bad works, living an exemplary life, that allows for this personal relationship though.

The very basic tenents of the bible emphatically state that it's God who establishes the relationship with each and every human being, and it's our part to receive, not by our merit, but by God's mercy/grace, that which is basically undeserved. Going back to the very beginning of the bible it was clearly established that mankind fell short of God's glory, holiness, and righteousness, and has continued to be in a state of rebellion with his Creator ever since.

The desire to be like God, or to be one's own master, or pilot of one's life, is the inherent flaw, of our fallen race, from the Garden. Only through undeserved attonement by Jesus Christ, for our total depravity, and rejection of God, do we re-establish a relationship with our Maker.

Yes, it's personal, and not corporate or an en-mass salvation of mankind. God looks at the "heart" of every individual. There is nothing that we can offer Him that will meet or satisfy God's holiness, or justification of us before Him. God is the Justifier, and man is the recipient. Yet mysteriously, it's His loving nature that reaches out to us, though we malign Him, and so...misunderstand Him, even though His attributes are so obviously evidenced through the things He has created (Romans Chapter 1).

Man wants to redefine God, in his own comfortable way. Man doesn't want to face his flawed heart that deep down is basically self-centered to the core. Only God can change that heart, and it's through Jesus Christ's attoning work on the cross, and his subsequent ressurrection that we are justified.
 

Dr Grump

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
29,782
Reaction score
5,515
Points
280
Location
From the Back of Beyond
People don't hate Christians, they hate God; God as revealed in the bible.
Does somebody who doesn't believe in a god hate him or her? How can you hate something you don't believe in? I don't hate anybody's god - I just don't believe he or she exists....shrug...
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top