Give me one example. Just one.

[rdean]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

 

[rightwinger]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

These are our Christian Americans doing what the bible tells them. Hating gays, capital punishment

Most of the secular world recognizes that as evil

 

[forkup]

And if people stopped believing in God, they wouldn't perpetrate those crimes against them. You can play that game all night, your OP asked 1 example I gave you one.Mission acomplished. Oh and btw in regards to homosexuality apparently.None of the Gospels touch the subject so we don't know what Jesus thought about it at all. There's only 3 references to it to begin with. 2 of wich are speculative and the other one only condemns certain types.What the New Testament Says about Homosexuality - Westar Institute

The Bible is absolutely clear regarding the standards of sexual morality; and homosexuality is wholly irreconcilable with these standards.

There was no need for Jesus to repeat what was already known and established on this matter; and his lack of attention to it cannot rationally be taken as overturning what was long before established. I don't recall that he said anything about killing, either, but nobody that I know takes that to mean that the commandment that “Thou shalt not kill” is no longer valid.

Wich in a very vivid way proves my point. Religion in this case creates a societal ill,instead of curing one. Lutroo was smart enough to keep away from the Old testaments views on homosexuality. Since well their idea of dealing with it where, well....... biblical. Fortunatly most of society has progressed from that viewpoint. Of course you and a significant portion of American society that finds this stance of acceptance wrong, and are part of the societal ill of intolerance to people who are different. Thank you for proving my point..

 

[hobelim]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

Not to worry!


If people started applying divine law according the way that Jesus taught to understand and apply it they would be among the first to go..

Here they are condemning and advocating discrimination, persecution, and death to homosexuals for violating divine law but they all are guilty of violating the exact same law by having entered into an unnatural relation with Jesus , another man, by worshiping him as if he was a god.


To teach other to do the same amounts to murder in the eyes of God, under penalty of death.


If God really exists, they are screwed. Listen to the garbage that comes out of their head like a foul and smelly discharge.

Obviously, they have their reward already.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Fortunatly most of society has progressed from that viewpoint. Of course you and a significant portion of American society that finds this stance of acceptance wrong, and are part of the societal ill of intolerance to people who are different. Thank you for proving my point..

I very much disagree with your premise, that for society to abandon God, and to embrace immorality, evil, and perversion, constitutes “progress” in any positive sense of the word.

 

[forkup]

Fortunatly most of society has progressed from that viewpoint. Of course you and a significant portion of American society that finds this stance of acceptance wrong, and are part of the societal ill of intolerance to people who are different. Thank you for proving my point..

I very much disagree with your premise, that for society to abandon God, and to embrace immorality, evil, and perversion, constitutes “progress” in any positive sense of the word.

Well that's why you are just as much of a fundamentalist as any person who supports ISIS. You feel what you consider Gods word goes above any secular law. I know I can't convince you otherwise. So why even bother. I'm not claiming you advocate violence of course. I don't know you at all so I can't make that assesment but you have a very narrow view of the world and morality. That much I do. And that narrow view. directly or indirectly promotes hatred and that hatred when not checked leads to what we see in Syria or saw in Germany of the 1940, or in Rwanda in the 90's, or the former Yugoslavia of the same time period. So yes you are part of a societal ill. Someone who is homosexual doesn't negatively effect society, someone like you does.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I very much disagree with your premise, that for society to abandon God, and to embrace immorality, evil, and perversion, constitutes “progress” in any positive sense of the word.

Well that's why you are just as much of a fundamentalist as any person who supports ISIS.

I've long held that there ought to be a counterpart to Godwin's Law, that treats gratuitous references to ISIS, the Taliban, Al Quaida, or other extreme forms of violent Islamism, the same way that Godwin's Law treats gratuitous references to Hitler and Nazism.

No need, in this case, since farther down, I see that you did, in fact, include Nazi Germany among the things to which you are comparing me and my position.

You feel what you consider Gods word goes above any secular law. I know I can't convince you otherwise. So why even bother. I'm not claiming you advocate violence of course. I don't know you at all so I can't make that assesment [sic] but you have a very narrow view of the world and morality. That much I do. And that narrow view. directly or indirectly promotes hatred and that hatred when not checked leads to what we see in Syria or saw in Germany of the 1940, or in Rwanda in the 90's, or the former Yugoslavia of the same time period. So yes you are part of a societal ill. Someone who is homosexual doesn't negatively effect society, someone like you does.

No, sir, you, and those like you, are the whole of the problem. You've turned against God, and against God's commandments, and you condemn and mock those who still hold thereto. You've willfully and knowingly chosen to embrace evil, perversion, madness, and immorality; and you condemn those who reject these.

You hold perversion up as “progress”, and condemn decency as “hatred”.

You, sir, are a perfect example of what was referenced in Isaiah 5:20,23-24.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

·
·
·​

Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.​

 

[forkup]

I very much disagree with your premise, that for society to abandon God, and to embrace immorality, evil, and perversion, constitutes “progress” in any positive sense of the word.

Well that's why you are just as much of a fundamentalist as any person who supports ISIS.

I've long held that there ought to be a counterpart to Godwin's Law, that treats gratuitous references to ISIS, the Taliban, Al Quaida, or other extreme forms of violent Islamism, the same way that Godwin's Law treats gratuitous references to Hitler and Nazism.

No need, in this case, since farther down, I see that you did, in fact, include Nazi Germany among the things to which you are comparing me and my position.

You feel what you consider Gods word goes above any secular law. I know I can't convince you otherwise. So why even bother. I'm not claiming you advocate violence of course. I don't know you at all so I can't make that assesment [sic] but you have a very narrow view of the world and morality. That much I do. And that narrow view. directly or indirectly promotes hatred and that hatred when not checked leads to what we see in Syria or saw in Germany of the 1940, or in Rwanda in the 90's, or the former Yugoslavia of the same time period. So yes you are part of a societal ill. Someone who is homosexual doesn't negatively effect society, someone like you does.

No, sir, you, and those like you, are the whole of the problem. You've turned against God, and against God's commandments, and you condemn and mock those who still hold thereto. You've willfully and knowingly chosen to embrace evil, perversion, madness, and immorality; and you condemn those who reject these.

You hold perversion up as “progress”, and condemn decency as “hatred”.

You, sir, are a perfect example of what was referenced in Isaiah 5:20,23-24.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

·
·
·​

Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.​

As a matter of fact. I just watched 3 parts of a docuserie done by the BBC. It was about Aushwitz. There's 4 parts left I had to stop watching it since I couldn't bear it anymore,and it, among other things talks to some of the surviving guards. 1 of them struck me as especcially telling. I'm parafrasing here but he said something like " I still hate Jews, I know it's the wrong sentiment but I can't stop it, it's how I feel". In my post I said to you,you are just as much of a fundamentalist as someone who supports ISIS, you might not feel violent towarts homosexuals and I can very well imaging in fact I know, that what I said was incredibly insulting. Just know that a lot of the people who support ISIS would not personally,commit an act of violence. They just agree with the sentiment that the world would be better under sharia law. Most Germans didn't personally commit acts of violence against Jews. All they did was feel the hate. Now I'll ask you this question, all I want from you is an honest answer. If you have to chose between secular law and what you feel is morally right by God, wich of the 2 takes precedent for you? If you follow secular law first, I will very cinserely appoligise. If you however feel that God trumps society I am right. That's how I see it.

 

[IndependantAce]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

I believe most societal ills are the result of people turning away from God and higher truth, and letting their animal impulses rule their life. As well as lusting after reason and looking to science and materialism to save them.

Truth is believe God did not want science or technology - when he created humans in their state of nature before technology and civilization this was their ideal state - modern day hunter-gatherers live close to this state of "Eden" and llve longer and more carefree lives than industrialized nations do.

The "forbidden knowledge" was actually man's use of reason to invent agriculture, and later modern civilization, because man was tempted by Satan and got too greedy, wanting more material wealth and domination over others - as a result man lost Eden and created most of the modern world's ills through science and technology - such as slavery, weapons of warfare, pollution, nuclear weapons, concentration camps.

Man's ability to reason seems in someway to be linked to the devil; Lucifer was known as the Light Bearer, and ironically the Enlightenment was the beginning of the scientific revolution, which of course lead to two world wars, the nuking of Hiroshima, as well as modern, crass consumerism and the degeneracy of America's entertainment industry - today even in spite of all our "technology" we still often die younger than hunter-gatherers from obesity because science can't save us from the vice of gluttony, nor can it save homosexuals from dying of AIDs due to their vice of lust - but following God could.

I feel that reason was actually created by the devil, it was the forbidden knowledge which was meant only for God, but like Satan himself, man wanted to be God - if man had never reasoned he would have been guided by intuition (faith) and lived in a perpetual state of harmony with God and nature. Nowadays we worship reason and materialism and have to depend on them just to live, but we'd have been better off without them entirely.

 

[hobelim]

I feel that reason was actually created by the devil,

Ugh.

Here is your dilemma. You have taught to believe in something irrational, that God became a man, and then you have been convinced that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to get people to do bad things so every time any rational thought or intelligent question about that irrational belief arises in your own mind you try to rid yourself of it as if you were under a satanic attack and your soul was at stake.

What this does is sets the mind against itself until it is incapable of rational thought and comes to the bizarre conclusion that reason is of the devil when the reality of the situation is that the only real devil is the bastard that defiled, contaminated, and fucked up your mind with nothing more than irrational assertions, specious falsehoods and vague promises of presents from God only if you remain faithful to the lie until death.


.

 

[IndependantAce]

I feel that reason was actually created by the devil,

Ugh.

Here is your dilemma. You have taught to believe in something irrational, that God became a man, and then you have been convinced that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to get people to do bad things so every time any rational thought or intelligent question about that irrational belief arises in your own mind you try to rid yourself of it as if you were under a satanic attack and your soul was at stake.

Reason was forbidden by God, not something ideally meant for mere mortals who are not capable of using it properly - much as Nietzsche died in a state of madness because of his faulty reasoning, yet a child is happy and content despite its limited reasoning ability - hence if people were more like children and in touch with God rather than our minds, we wouldn't be want for happiness. Reason was given to us by the devil in an attempt to thwart God's design.

What this does is sets the mind against itself until it is incapable of rational thought and sincerely believes that reason is of the devil when the reality of the situation is that the only real devil is the bastard that fucked up your mind.
.

Reason is the forbidden knowledge, it was forbidden by God, but man got greedy and wanted to be God and have access to his "language" - now we are all born with the original sin as we must reason simply to survive. If we had lived as hunter-gatherers do, in a state of nature like Eden - without technology or civilization - we would be without the evils of the world.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

As a matter of fact. I just watched 3 parts of a docuserie [sic] done by the BBC. It was about Aushwitz [sic]. There's 4 parts left I had to stop watching it since I couldn't bear it anymore,and it, among other things talks to some of the surviving guards. 1 of them struck me as especcially [sic] telling. I'm parafrasing [sic] here but he said something like " I still hate Jews, I know it's the wrong sentiment but I can't stop it, it's how I feel". In my post I said to you,you are just as much of a fundamentalist as someone who supports ISIS, you might not feel violent towarts [sic] homosexuals and I can very well imaging in fact I know, that what I said was incredibly insulting. Just know that a lot of the people who support ISIS would not personally,commit an act of violence. They just agree with the sentiment that the world would be better under sharia law. Most Germans didn't personally commit acts of violence against Jews. All they did was feel the hate. Now I'll ask you this question, all I want from you is an honest answer. If you have to chose between secular law and what you feel is morally right by God, wich [sic] of the 2 takes precedent for you? If you follow secular law first, I will very cinserely [sic] appoligise [sic]. If you however feel that God trumps society I am right. That's how I see it.

How can God's law not trump anything less than it? God has the ultimate authority, and any who rebel against him, ultimately, will pay the price.

Let me turn your question around. Suppose you lived under Nazi rule in Germany, and you knew where a Jewish family was hiding. By the secular law, in that society, at that time, you would be obligated to report this information to the authorities, so that they could capture these Jews, and kill them. Would you obey the law, in this case, knowing full well that what the law compels of you is something evil, and offensive before God?

In any event, you seem to be irretrievably stuck in the trap of believing that holding to decent moral principles means only that one has hatred toward those who violate these principles. I don't hate homosexuals. I know that homosexuality is immoral, that it is an offense against God and nature, and I disapprove of those who engage in this perverted behavior. But that's not the same thing as hate.

I also disapprove of murder, theft, vandalism, adultery, drug abuse, and a whole host of other evil behaviors. How “hateful” must this make me?

 

[IndependantAce]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

These are our Christian Americans doing what the bible tells them. Hating gays, capital punishment

Most of the secular world recognizes that as evil

Yet murdering a child in the womb is what they think is moral, but executing a terrorist or a convicted rapist isn't. Hence the secular world's depraved morality.

 

[forkup]

As a matter of fact. I just watched 3 parts of a docuserie [sic] done by the BBC. It was about Aushwitz [sic]. There's 4 parts left I had to stop watching it since I couldn't bear it anymore,and it, among other things talks to some of the surviving guards. 1 of them struck me as especcially [sic] telling. I'm parafrasing [sic] here but he said something like " I still hate Jews, I know it's the wrong sentiment but I can't stop it, it's how I feel". In my post I said to you,you are just as much of a fundamentalist as someone who supports ISIS, you might not feel violent towarts [sic] homosexuals and I can very well imaging in fact I know, that what I said was incredibly insulting. Just know that a lot of the people who support ISIS would not personally,commit an act of violence. They just agree with the sentiment that the world would be better under sharia law. Most Germans didn't personally commit acts of violence against Jews. All they did was feel the hate. Now I'll ask you this question, all I want from you is an honest answer. If you have to chose between secular law and what you feel is morally right by God, wich [sic] of the 2 takes precedent for you? If you follow secular law first, I will very cinserely [sic] appoligise [sic]. If you however feel that God trumps society I am right. That's how I see it.

How can God's law not trump anything less than it? God has the ultimate authority, and any who rebel against him, ultimately, will pay the price.

Let me turn your question around. Suppose you lived under Nazi rule in Germany, and you knew where a Jewish family was hiding. By the secular law, in that society, at that time, you would be obligated to report this information to the authorities, so that they could capture these Jews, and kill them. Would you obey the law, in this case, knowing full well that what the law compels of you is something evil, and offensive before God?

In any event, you seem to be irretrievably stuck in the trap of believing that holding to decent moral principles means only that one has hatred toward those who violate these principles. I don't hate homosexuals. I know that homosexuality is immoral, that it is an offense against God and nature, and I disapprove of those who engage in this perverted behavior. But that's not the same thing as hate.

I also disapprove of murder, theft, vandalism, adultery, drug abuse, and a whole host of other evil behaviors. How “hateful” must this make me?

Well,turning the argument arround is smart it falls flat for the following reason. Secular law in Germany was not based on the principils that created law in all western countries. there was no such thing as a constitution in Nazi Germany, the law there was whatever the state said was the law. There was no checks and balances, nothing to curb the power of the executive branch, it was the only branch that had any power in the country. As to what I would have done in those circumstances? I honestly don't know, I like to think of myself as a non conformist and as someone who is pretty immune to peer pressure, but it takes a special kind of courage to be able to stand up to people, when you know they have the power to kill, you and your entire family, and that's providing that I if I'dd grown up under those circumstances would have even been able to recognise it as a moral obligation to protect Jews."How does God's law not trump anyting else?" See that's the same thing Sharia Law claims. Btw when you say "God sais", do you realise your interpreting too? There is stuff in the bible that no modern person can agree with, so in the end you are guessing as to Gods morals. Look if you say you don't hate homosexuals, I have no reason to doubt that statement, but do you acknowledge that there are people, probably a significant percentage of people who believe like you do, that do hate homosexuals. And they hate them because of religion. So following what they feel is Gods word is creating a social ill.

 

[Lutroo]

As a matter of fact. I just watched 3 parts of a docuserie [sic] done by the BBC. It was about Aushwitz [sic]. There's 4 parts left I had to stop watching it since I couldn't bear it anymore,and it, among other things talks to some of the surviving guards. 1 of them struck me as especcially [sic] telling. I'm parafrasing [sic] here but he said something like " I still hate Jews, I know it's the wrong sentiment but I can't stop it, it's how I feel". In my post I said to you,you are just as much of a fundamentalist as someone who supports ISIS, you might not feel violent towarts [sic] homosexuals and I can very well imaging in fact I know, that what I said was incredibly insulting. Just know that a lot of the people who support ISIS would not personally,commit an act of violence. They just agree with the sentiment that the world would be better under sharia law. Most Germans didn't personally commit acts of violence against Jews. All they did was feel the hate. Now I'll ask you this question, all I want from you is an honest answer. If you have to chose between secular law and what you feel is morally right by God, wich [sic] of the 2 takes precedent for you? If you follow secular law first, I will very cinserely [sic] appoligise [sic]. If you however feel that God trumps society I am right. That's how I see it.

How can God's law not trump anything less than it? God has the ultimate authority, and any who rebel against him, ultimately, will pay the price.

Let me turn your question around. Suppose you lived under Nazi rule in Germany, and you knew where a Jewish family was hiding. By the secular law, in that society, at that time, you would be obligated to report this information to the authorities, so that they could capture these Jews, and kill them. Would you obey the law, in this case, knowing full well that what the law compels of you is something evil, and offensive before God?

In any event, you seem to be irretrievably stuck in the trap of believing that holding to decent moral principles means only that one has hatred toward those who violate these principles. I don't hate homosexuals. I know that homosexuality is immoral, that it is an offense against God and nature, and I disapprove of those who engage in this perverted behavior. But that's not the same thing as hate.

I also disapprove of murder, theft, vandalism, adultery, drug abuse, and a whole host of other evil behaviors. How “hateful” must this make me?

Well,turning the argument arround is smart it falls flat for the following reason. Secular law in Germany was not based on the principils that created law in all western countries. there was no such thing as a constitution in Nazi Germany, the law there was whatever the state said was the law. There was no checks and balances, nothing to curb the power of the executive branch, it was the only branch that had any power in the country. As to what I would have done in those circumstances? I honestly don't know, I like to think of myself as a non conformist and as someone who is pretty immune to peer pressure, but it takes a special kind of courage to be able to stand up to people, when you know they have the power to kill, you and your entire family, and that's providing that I if I'dd grown up under those circumstances would have even been able to recognise it as a moral obligation to protect Jews."How does God's law not trump anyting else?" See that's the same thing Sharia Law claims. Btw when you say "God sais", do you realise your interpreting too? There is stuff in the bible that no modern person can agree with, so in the end you are guessing as to Gods morals. Look if you say you don't hate homosexuals, I have no reason to doubt that statement, but do you acknowledge that there are people, probably a significant percentage of people who believe like you do, that do hate homosexuals. And they hate them because of religion. So following what they feel is Gods word is creating a social ill.

Get your facts straight. Germany DID have a constitution. It remained in effect, technically, after Hitler took power. Lot of good it did the German people.

 

[forkup]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

These are our Christian Americans doing what the bible tells them. Hating gays, capital punishment

Most of the secular world recognizes that as evil

Yet murdering a child in the womb is what they think is moral, but executing a terrorist or a convicted rapist isn't. Hence the secular world's depraved morality.

Ace do me a favour.Shut up. I am actually a pretty understanding person,willing to talk to a lot of people most of wich stand dimetrical oposed to my viewpoints. I don't care most of the time. In your case I'll make an exeption. I've seen your OP's and I've read a lot of what you write. I consider you borderline insane, not misguided but actually insane. As far as I'm concerned your last OP was the straw. Saying woman shouldn't have a say in rape, to me stopped me from thinking you where a person worthy to have it's opinion matter in the slightest.

 

[forkup]

As a matter of fact. I just watched 3 parts of a docuserie [sic] done by the BBC. It was about Aushwitz [sic]. There's 4 parts left I had to stop watching it since I couldn't bear it anymore,and it, among other things talks to some of the surviving guards. 1 of them struck me as especcially [sic] telling. I'm parafrasing [sic] here but he said something like " I still hate Jews, I know it's the wrong sentiment but I can't stop it, it's how I feel". In my post I said to you,you are just as much of a fundamentalist as someone who supports ISIS, you might not feel violent towarts [sic] homosexuals and I can very well imaging in fact I know, that what I said was incredibly insulting. Just know that a lot of the people who support ISIS would not personally,commit an act of violence. They just agree with the sentiment that the world would be better under sharia law. Most Germans didn't personally commit acts of violence against Jews. All they did was feel the hate. Now I'll ask you this question, all I want from you is an honest answer. If you have to chose between secular law and what you feel is morally right by God, wich [sic] of the 2 takes precedent for you? If you follow secular law first, I will very cinserely [sic] appoligise [sic]. If you however feel that God trumps society I am right. That's how I see it.

How can God's law not trump anything less than it? God has the ultimate authority, and any who rebel against him, ultimately, will pay the price.

Let me turn your question around. Suppose you lived under Nazi rule in Germany, and you knew where a Jewish family was hiding. By the secular law, in that society, at that time, you would be obligated to report this information to the authorities, so that they could capture these Jews, and kill them. Would you obey the law, in this case, knowing full well that what the law compels of you is something evil, and offensive before God?

In any event, you seem to be irretrievably stuck in the trap of believing that holding to decent moral principles means only that one has hatred toward those who violate these principles. I don't hate homosexuals. I know that homosexuality is immoral, that it is an offense against God and nature, and I disapprove of those who engage in this perverted behavior. But that's not the same thing as hate.

I also disapprove of murder, theft, vandalism, adultery, drug abuse, and a whole host of other evil behaviors. How “hateful” must this make me?

Well,turning the argument arround is smart it falls flat for the following reason. Secular law in Germany was not based on the principils that created law in all western countries. there was no such thing as a constitution in Nazi Germany, the law there was whatever the state said was the law. There was no checks and balances, nothing to curb the power of the executive branch, it was the only branch that had any power in the country. As to what I would have done in those circumstances? I honestly don't know, I like to think of myself as a non conformist and as someone who is pretty immune to peer pressure, but it takes a special kind of courage to be able to stand up to people, when you know they have the power to kill, you and your entire family, and that's providing that I if I'dd grown up under those circumstances would have even been able to recognise it as a moral obligation to protect Jews."How does God's law not trump anyting else?" See that's the same thing Sharia Law claims. Btw when you say "God sais", do you realise your interpreting too? There is stuff in the bible that no modern person can agree with, so in the end you are guessing as to Gods morals. Look if you say you don't hate homosexuals, I have no reason to doubt that statement, but do you acknowledge that there are people, probably a significant percentage of people who believe like you do, that do hate homosexuals. And they hate them because of religion. So following what they feel is Gods word is creating a social ill.

Get your facts straight. Germany DID have a constitution. It remained in effect, technically, after Hitler took power. Lot of good it did the German people.

It was suspended after the burning of the reichtag, martial law was declared and it stayed in effect throughout Hitler's reign.

 

[Lutroo]

As a matter of fact. I just watched 3 parts of a docuserie [sic] done by the BBC. It was about Aushwitz [sic]. There's 4 parts left I had to stop watching it since I couldn't bear it anymore,and it, among other things talks to some of the surviving guards. 1 of them struck me as especcially [sic] telling. I'm parafrasing [sic] here but he said something like " I still hate Jews, I know it's the wrong sentiment but I can't stop it, it's how I feel". In my post I said to you,you are just as much of a fundamentalist as someone who supports ISIS, you might not feel violent towarts [sic] homosexuals and I can very well imaging in fact I know, that what I said was incredibly insulting. Just know that a lot of the people who support ISIS would not personally,commit an act of violence. They just agree with the sentiment that the world would be better under sharia law. Most Germans didn't personally commit acts of violence against Jews. All they did was feel the hate. Now I'll ask you this question, all I want from you is an honest answer. If you have to chose between secular law and what you feel is morally right by God, wich [sic] of the 2 takes precedent for you? If you follow secular law first, I will very cinserely [sic] appoligise [sic]. If you however feel that God trumps society I am right. That's how I see it.

How can God's law not trump anything less than it? God has the ultimate authority, and any who rebel against him, ultimately, will pay the price.

Let me turn your question around. Suppose you lived under Nazi rule in Germany, and you knew where a Jewish family was hiding. By the secular law, in that society, at that time, you would be obligated to report this information to the authorities, so that they could capture these Jews, and kill them. Would you obey the law, in this case, knowing full well that what the law compels of you is something evil, and offensive before God?

In any event, you seem to be irretrievably stuck in the trap of believing that holding to decent moral principles means only that one has hatred toward those who violate these principles. I don't hate homosexuals. I know that homosexuality is immoral, that it is an offense against God and nature, and I disapprove of those who engage in this perverted behavior. But that's not the same thing as hate.

I also disapprove of murder, theft, vandalism, adultery, drug abuse, and a whole host of other evil behaviors. How “hateful” must this make me?

Well,turning the argument arround is smart it falls flat for the following reason. Secular law in Germany was not based on the principils that created law in all western countries. there was no such thing as a constitution in Nazi Germany, the law there was whatever the state said was the law. There was no checks and balances, nothing to curb the power of the executive branch, it was the only branch that had any power in the country. As to what I would have done in those circumstances? I honestly don't know, I like to think of myself as a non conformist and as someone who is pretty immune to peer pressure, but it takes a special kind of courage to be able to stand up to people, when you know they have the power to kill, you and your entire family, and that's providing that I if I'dd grown up under those circumstances would have even been able to recognise it as a moral obligation to protect Jews."How does God's law not trump anyting else?" See that's the same thing Sharia Law claims. Btw when you say "God sais", do you realise your interpreting too? There is stuff in the bible that no modern person can agree with, so in the end you are guessing as to Gods morals. Look if you say you don't hate homosexuals, I have no reason to doubt that statement, but do you acknowledge that there are people, probably a significant percentage of people who believe like you do, that do hate homosexuals. And they hate them because of religion. So following what they feel is Gods word is creating a social ill.

Get your facts straight. Germany DID have a constitution. It remained in effect, technically, after Hitler took power. Lot of good it did the German people.

It was suspended after the burning of the reichtag, martial law was declared and it stayed in effect throughout Hitler's reign.

OK. I read it again. You said NAZI Germany.

 

[Lutroo]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

These are our Christian Americans doing what the bible tells them. Hating gays, capital punishment

Most of the secular world recognizes that as evil

Yet murdering a child in the womb is what they think is moral, but executing a terrorist or a convicted rapist isn't. Hence the secular world's depraved morality.

Ace do me a favour.Shut up. I am actually a pretty understanding person,willing to talk to a lot of people most of wich stand dimetrical oposed to my viewpoints. I don't care most of the time. In your case I'll make an exeption. I've seen your OP's and I've read a lot of what you write. I consider you borderline insane, not misguided but actually insane. As far as I'm concerned your last OP was the straw. Saying woman shouldn't have a say in rape, to me stopped me from thinking you where a person worthy to have it's opinion matter in the slightest.

So you think it's OK to murder a child because it was the result of rape? How sick is that?

 

[forkup]

I believe that every societal ill America suffers from, that is the result of human agents, is the direct result of disobeying Gods word. I challenge anyone to give one example that refutes this.

Imagine if we listened to Right Wingers and actually started killing millions of Americans. It would tear the country apart.

These are our Christian Americans doing what the bible tells them. Hating gays, capital punishment

Most of the secular world recognizes that as evil

Yet murdering a child in the womb is what they think is moral, but executing a terrorist or a convicted rapist isn't. Hence the secular world's depraved morality.

Ace do me a favour.Shut up. I am actually a pretty understanding person,willing to talk to a lot of people most of wich stand dimetrical oposed to my viewpoints. I don't care most of the time. In your case I'll make an exeption. I've seen your OP's and I've read a lot of what you write. I consider you borderline insane, not misguided but actually insane. As far as I'm concerned your last OP was the straw. Saying woman shouldn't have a say in rape, to me stopped me from thinking you where a person worthy to have it's opinion matter in the slightest.

So you think it's OK to murder a child because it was the result of rape? How sick is that?

I don't think a fetus is a person, especially early in it's development and neither do I feel morally qualified to tell the victim of a crime that because of my view of morality she should suffer a consequence that is both lifelong and ultimately fixable. I'm not comfortable with abortion. But it's not my body and it's one of those decisions I'm comfortable letting people make for themselfs.