Get rid of Social Security now?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Anyone who put their Social Security contributions into a diversified portfolio over the last 20, 30 or 40 years would have a much bigger nest egg than Social Security will provide.

No one who remained in the market after the 2008 crisis was wiped out.

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Really?

Yes, really.

2008-10-07-retirement-accounts-losses_

Thanks for those 4 year old articles. It's true, when the market goes down, you lose money.
Now go back and reread my post, before you say more stupid shit.

 

[Toro]

Anyone who put their Social Security contributions into a diversified portfolio over the last 20, 30 or 40 years would have a much bigger nest egg than Social Security will provide.

No one who remained in the market after the 2008 crisis was wiped out.

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Really?

Yes, really.

2008-10-07-retirement-accounts-losses_

Thanks for those 4 year old articles. It's true, when the market goes down, you lose money.
Now go back and reread my post, before you say more stupid shit.

I agree. The math is simple. Looking at any one year, or even 5 or 10 year period is wrong for a pension fund. A pension fund is supposed to last for generations. And over generations, stocks have done the best and will do so again in the future.

The typical pension plan over the past 50 years has earned ~8% a year. A typical plan is invested roughly 60% in equities and 40% in bonds (or some such proxies). A portfolio of government bonds over 50 years have generated about 4% over that time. $100 million compounding at 4% a year nets $460 million in 50 years. $100 million compounding at 8% a year nets $4.6 billion over 50 years. Plans that invested only in government bonds have badly lagged over long periods of time, even if they've done very well over the past 15. Government bonds will almost certainly be one of the worst performing investments over the next 15.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

That annuities make more for the insurance coma0ny than they do for their clients so therefore they are a sucker's bet.

When an individual client exceeds life expectancy by more than a little bit he'll make more off the annuity than he put in. But it doesn't cost the insurance company really because its paid for by the clients who didn't make life expectancy and put more in than they got out.

That's kinda the point of the bet. You transfer the risk that you'll live very long and need income far into old age to the insurance company. In exchange, they take a little profit, and if you don't make life expectancy, they keep the difference.

Social Security works the same way. Its not a savings account. Its an insurance program.

Actually, no, it's a Ponzi scheme.

I've never heard of a Ponzi scheme that has lasted 75+ years and which had as its main source of revenue a share of the taxes of the biggest economy on Earth.


You're an idiot.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Where did I ever say it would be voluntary?

I have been talking about the 15% the government confiscates for SS and nothing else.

The saving can be legally compelled as it is now. The only difference is that each person would actually own his account rather than the government throwing the money into a slush fund.

You forgot another difference - the fact that if you divert SS revenues into private accounts, there will no longer be any funding to make payments to current SS beneficiaries. BUt hey, **** them, right?

I think people in general would feel better about controlling their own private accounts,

I'm sure they'd feel great about it until the market failed and it turns out millions of them were all wrong at once.

Young people particularly, aren't stupid enough to want to see themselves suckered into the same program that screwed their grandparents over.

Their grandparents didn't get screwed over you ignoramous. Social Security has never missed a payment, they've all been paid on time.

That's why a private account is making more sense to them.

THEN OPEN A DAMN PRIVATE ACCOUNT YOU ******* WHINY BABY. If you've got NOTHING to invest past the 12.4% then it SHOULD be going into what is regarded universally as the the lowest risk dollar denominated investment possible - the US Treasury. You can't afford to risk such a pitifully small retirement savings rate on anything higher risk, and the fact that you can't see that is just further proof that the average loon such as yourself has no ******* clue how to manage the market based risk to their retirement security. If morons like yourself had their way the retirement security of every American would be subject to the successes and failure of the latest pop trends in the market - even more so than now. Millions of people will overexpose themselves to the latest fad stocks of the year, creating profits only for the relatively few sophisticated smart money investors who know how to prey off of the idiots who dumped their money into tech stocks in the 90's or housing investments in the 00's or whatever the **** the next trend is.


I mean - do you even realize your entire supposition is based on less than 2 independent samples of data ?!?! You say stocks will always long term over 45 years be profitable and you base this on < 60 years of S&P 500 data! How ******* RETARDED is that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

When an individual client exceeds life expectancy by more than a little bit he'll make more off the annuity than he put in. But it doesn't cost the insurance company really because its paid for by the clients who didn't make life expectancy and put more in than they got out.

That's kinda the point of the bet. You transfer the risk that you'll live very long and need income far into old age to the insurance company. In exchange, they take a little profit, and if you don't make life expectancy, they keep the difference.

Social Security works the same way. Its not a savings account. Its an insurance program.

Actually, no, it's a Ponzi scheme.

I've never heard of a Ponzi scheme that has lasted 75+ years and which had as its main source of revenue a share of the taxes of the biggest economy on Earth.


You're an idiot.

That's because there has never been a scam that people are forced by. Law to dump 15.% of their income into

It's the perfect scam and as long as there are people to fleece it will continue

 

[Navy1960]

Forgive me but I get a bit of a chuckle from some who claim that Social Security is a "scam" or somehow they themselves are being taken advantage of. If that were the case then they would be complaining about just about every single thing they Govt. spends money on from Highways to Fighter Jets. The facts are these, according to Social Security itself the very fact they get this benefit keeps over 21 million Americans " OUT" of poverty, not to mention the fact that prior too the advent of Social Security 75% of the elderly in this nation lived in poverty according to the US House. So given these numbers, lets say for a moment we rid ourselves of Social Security to satisfy the whims of a small minority of the population because currently the program is well liked in just about every poll ever taken, those elderly I mentioned would then become the responsibility of the very people who are saying that Social Security is a scam, in terms of higher expenses , prices, and taxes to take care of them in their old age. Frankly among all the stupid things our Govt. has done in the past 15 years, and there have been many, Social Security is not one of them, and if people really wanted to see a change in the way Govt. does things then they would be just as upset over a Govt. that digs billions dollar holes in the Nevada desert and then abandons them or perhaps spends billions on weapons that are never fielded, and more so just does not manage itself well rather than advocate for the elimination for a program that will shoot themselves in the foot eventually ,regardless of how much they might tell you they can invest their own money better, and whats really interesting is this, Social Security isnt even part of the general budget . So if Social Security is a scam, so to then is every oof budget item , and I will name a few recent ones. the wars in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Medicare Part D. The point here is this, there is nothing stoppping anyone from investing their savings into whatever they wish, I myself have invested in many things over my lifetime, and have always seen Social Security as a responsibility and no different than any other as an American citizen. So perhaps rather than calling a program a scam that has worked for countless millions, make suggestions on how to make it stronger for young people who are going to need it when they retire and maybe just maybe advocate that our Govt. start paying back Social Security what it owes to it, because if anyone had bothered to look, its not China that holds the largest amount of US debt.

 

[MikeK]

Anyone who put their Social Security contributions into a diversified portfolio over the last 20, 30 or 40 years would have a much bigger nest egg than Social Security will provide.

No one who remained in the market after the 2008 crisis was wiped out.

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Really?

Yes, really.

2008-10-07-retirement-accounts-losses_

Thanks for those 4 year old articles. It's true, when the market goes down, you lose money.
Now go back and reread my post, before you say more stupid shit.

The real stupidity in this issue belongs to those uninformed disciples of the right who are easily duped by the kind of nonsense spewed by amateur propagandists like you and other equally fallacious punks. What you are trying to put across here is the notion that neither the financial crises occurring since 2008 nor the devious efforts of predatory corporatists like Mitt Romney, who have exported millions of jobs to China and Mexico, causing massive unemployment and collapsing entire pension systems, haven't created a major increase in a national poverty rate which would leave millions of seniors destitute were it not for their Social Security allotments.

If you were half as smart as you seem to think you are you would have no problem making your fortune through investments in addition to your FICA contributions as many others have done and you wouldn't be whining about Government "stealing" from you, which is the mantra of post-adolescent bullshitters who haven't a pot to piss in, probably never will, and are proficient at little more than parroting Libertarian fantasies.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When an individual client exceeds life expectancy by more than a little bit he'll make more off the annuity than he put in. But it doesn't cost the insurance company really because its paid for by the clients who didn't make life expectancy and put more in than they got out.

That's kinda the point of the bet. You transfer the risk that you'll live very long and need income far into old age to the insurance company. In exchange, they take a little profit, and if you don't make life expectancy, they keep the difference.

Social Security works the same way. Its not a savings account. Its an insurance program.

Actually, no, it's a Ponzi scheme.

I've never heard of a Ponzi scheme that has lasted 75+ years and which had as its main source of revenue a share of the taxes of the biggest economy on Earth.


You're an idiot.

It only has an unfunded shortfall of over $15 trillion. Just another well run pension fund. LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Really?

Yes, really.

2008-10-07-retirement-accounts-losses_

Thanks for those 4 year old articles. It's true, when the market goes down, you lose money.
Now go back and reread my post, before you say more stupid shit.

The real stupidity in this issue belongs to those uninformed disciples of the right who are easily duped by the kind of nonsense spewed by amateur propagandists like you and other equally fallacious punks. What you are trying to put across here is the notion that neither the financial crises occurring since 2008 nor the devious efforts of predatory corporatists like Mitt Romney, who have exported millions of jobs to China and Mexico, causing massive unemployment and collapsing entire pension systems, haven't created a major increase in a national poverty rate which would leave millions of seniors destitute were it not for their Social Security allotments.

If you were half as smart as you seem to think you are you would have no problem making your fortune through investments in addition to your FICA contributions as many others have done and you wouldn't be whining about Government "stealing" from you, which is the mantra of post-adolescent bullshitters who haven't a pot to piss in, probably never will, and are proficient at little more than parroting Libertarian fantasies.

If you were half as smart as you seem to think you are you would have no problem making your fortune through investments in addition to your FICA contributions

Oh, believe me, I am.
That's how I know we're getting such a bad deal from Social Security.
My contributions and my employers, over a 40 year career, invested in the market would give me easily triple what I'll get from Social Security.
And I'd still have the principal to pass to my heirs.
Unlike anyone who dies a day before they start to collect Social Security.
It's a ripoff. On the other hand, liberals who are bad at math (all of them), love it!

 

[thereisnospoon]

When an individual client exceeds life expectancy by more than a little bit he'll make more off the annuity than he put in. But it doesn't cost the insurance company really because its paid for by the clients who didn't make life expectancy and put more in than they got out.

That's kinda the point of the bet. You transfer the risk that you'll live very long and need income far into old age to the insurance company. In exchange, they take a little profit, and if you don't make life expectancy, they keep the difference.

Social Security works the same way. Its not a savings account. Its an insurance program.

Actually, no, it's a Ponzi scheme.

I've never heard of a Ponzi scheme that has lasted 75+ years and which had as its main source of revenue a share of the taxes of the biggest economy on Earth.


You're an idiot.

It has lasted this long because unlike a normal scheme, a third party has mandated that it can simply confiscate the money from the participants.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Really?

Yes, really.

2008-10-07-retirement-accounts-losses_

Thanks for those 4 year old articles. It's true, when the market goes down, you lose money.
Now go back and reread my post, before you say more stupid shit.

The real stupidity in this issue belongs to those uninformed disciples of the right who are easily duped by the kind of nonsense spewed by amateur propagandists like you and other equally fallacious punks. What you are trying to put across here is the notion that neither the financial crises occurring since 2008 nor the devious efforts of predatory corporatists like Mitt Romney, who have exported millions of jobs to China and Mexico, causing massive unemployment and collapsing entire pension systems, haven't created a major increase in a national poverty rate which would leave millions of seniors destitute were it not for their Social Security allotments.

If you were half as smart as you seem to think you are you would have no problem making your fortune through investments in addition to your FICA contributions as many others have done and you wouldn't be whining about Government "stealing" from you, which is the mantra of post-adolescent bullshitters who haven't a pot to piss in, probably never will, and are proficient at little more than parroting Libertarian fantasies.

Have you no credibility on this issue. You have already admitted that you are a hack government employer who was told to exist off the public. So your incentive lies with public spending and higher taxes. Social Security is a tax.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Forgive me but I get a bit of a chuckle from some who claim that Social Security is a "scam" or somehow they themselves are being taken advantage of. If that were the case then they would be complaining about just about every single thing they Govt. spends money on from Highways to Fighter Jets. The facts are these, according to Social Security itself the very fact they get this benefit keeps over 21 million Americans " OUT" of poverty, not to mention the fact that prior too the advent of Social Security 75% of the elderly in this nation lived in poverty according to the US House. So given these numbers, lets say for a moment we rid ourselves of Social Security to satisfy the whims of a small minority of the population because currently the program is well liked in just about every poll ever taken, those elderly I mentioned would then become the responsibility of the very people who are saying that Social Security is a scam, in terms of higher expenses , prices, and taxes to take care of them in their old age. Frankly among all the stupid things our Govt. has done in the past 15 years, and there have been many, Social Security is not one of them, and if people really wanted to see a change in the way Govt. does things then they would be just as upset over a Govt. that digs billions dollar holes in the Nevada desert and then abandons them or perhaps spends billions on weapons that are never fielded, and more so just does not manage itself well rather than advocate for the elimination for a program that will shoot themselves in the foot eventually ,regardless of how much they might tell you they can invest their own money better, and whats really interesting is this, Social Security isnt even part of the general budget . So if Social Security is a scam, so to then is every oof budget item , and I will name a few recent ones. the wars in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Medicare Part D. The point here is this, there is nothing stoppping anyone from investing their savings into whatever they wish, I myself have invested in many things over my lifetime, and have always seen Social Security as a responsibility and no different than any other as an American citizen. So perhaps rather than calling a program a scam that has worked for countless millions, make suggestions on how to make it stronger for young people who are going to need it when they retire and maybe just maybe advocate that our Govt. start paying back Social Security what it owes to it, because if anyone had bothered to look, its not China that holds the largest amount of US debt.

Sorry but no.

15% of ones lifetime income is no small thing.

And I am being prevented from investing that 15% of my income into a vehicle of my choice. Instead it gets thrown into a slush fund.

If I added that money taken from me for the SS slush fund to what I already save it would have added up to nearly 35% of my lifetime income and I would seriously be thinking of retiring in less than 5 years rather than the 15 it will most likely be.

 

[Navy1960]

Forgive me but I get a bit of a chuckle from some who claim that Social Security is a "scam" or somehow they themselves are being taken advantage of. If that were the case then they would be complaining about just about every single thing they Govt. spends money on from Highways to Fighter Jets. The facts are these, according to Social Security itself the very fact they get this benefit keeps over 21 million Americans " OUT" of poverty, not to mention the fact that prior too the advent of Social Security 75% of the elderly in this nation lived in poverty according to the US House. So given these numbers, lets say for a moment we rid ourselves of Social Security to satisfy the whims of a small minority of the population because currently the program is well liked in just about every poll ever taken, those elderly I mentioned would then become the responsibility of the very people who are saying that Social Security is a scam, in terms of higher expenses , prices, and taxes to take care of them in their old age. Frankly among all the stupid things our Govt. has done in the past 15 years, and there have been many, Social Security is not one of them, and if people really wanted to see a change in the way Govt. does things then they would be just as upset over a Govt. that digs billions dollar holes in the Nevada desert and then abandons them or perhaps spends billions on weapons that are never fielded, and more so just does not manage itself well rather than advocate for the elimination for a program that will shoot themselves in the foot eventually ,regardless of how much they might tell you they can invest their own money better, and whats really interesting is this, Social Security isnt even part of the general budget . So if Social Security is a scam, so to then is every oof budget item , and I will name a few recent ones. the wars in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Medicare Part D. The point here is this, there is nothing stoppping anyone from investing their savings into whatever they wish, I myself have invested in many things over my lifetime, and have always seen Social Security as a responsibility and no different than any other as an American citizen. So perhaps rather than calling a program a scam that has worked for countless millions, make suggestions on how to make it stronger for young people who are going to need it when they retire and maybe just maybe advocate that our Govt. start paying back Social Security what it owes to it, because if anyone had bothered to look, its not China that holds the largest amount of US debt.

Sorry but no.

15% of ones lifetime income is no small thing.

And I am being prevented from investing that 15% of my income into a vehicle of my choice. Instead it gets thrown into a slush fund.

If I added that money taken from me for the SS slush fund to what I already save it would have added up to nearly 35% of my lifetime income and I would seriously be thinking of retiring in less than 5 years rather than the 15 it will most likely be.

Given the fact that the above statistics I cited you are true, and the fact that over 50% of Americans do not save money, someone like yourself would be the exception and not the rule. So lets say for a moment you did save that 15% over your lifetime, and the so called " slush" fund as you call it wasn't there, you would quickly find your savings eaten alive by higher state and local taxes, costs for medical expenses, and whole host of expenses that will be higher as a result of Americans that have no savings being taken care of by the state in which you live. Again, your taxes go to pay for a whole host of things you may or may not agree with, including everything from roads, dams, missiles, ships, jets, and social security, the point is thats the price you and I pay for being American citizens, if our society wished to be one where everyone was on their own and there was no shared respoinsibility then we would all be individually responsible for our own highways, defending our own nation, cleaning our own water, making sure our food is safe, etc. in the end if you were to take on the burden of all that , you would have no savings to worry about nor would you have a nation to worry about as well.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Forgive me but I get a bit of a chuckle from some who claim that Social Security is a "scam" or somehow they themselves are being taken advantage of. If that were the case then they would be complaining about just about every single thing they Govt. spends money on from Highways to Fighter Jets. The facts are these, according to Social Security itself the very fact they get this benefit keeps over 21 million Americans " OUT" of poverty, not to mention the fact that prior too the advent of Social Security 75% of the elderly in this nation lived in poverty according to the US House. So given these numbers, lets say for a moment we rid ourselves of Social Security to satisfy the whims of a small minority of the population because currently the program is well liked in just about every poll ever taken, those elderly I mentioned would then become the responsibility of the very people who are saying that Social Security is a scam, in terms of higher expenses , prices, and taxes to take care of them in their old age. Frankly among all the stupid things our Govt. has done in the past 15 years, and there have been many, Social Security is not one of them, and if people really wanted to see a change in the way Govt. does things then they would be just as upset over a Govt. that digs billions dollar holes in the Nevada desert and then abandons them or perhaps spends billions on weapons that are never fielded, and more so just does not manage itself well rather than advocate for the elimination for a program that will shoot themselves in the foot eventually ,regardless of how much they might tell you they can invest their own money better, and whats really interesting is this, Social Security isnt even part of the general budget . So if Social Security is a scam, so to then is every oof budget item , and I will name a few recent ones. the wars in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Medicare Part D. The point here is this, there is nothing stoppping anyone from investing their savings into whatever they wish, I myself have invested in many things over my lifetime, and have always seen Social Security as a responsibility and no different than any other as an American citizen. So perhaps rather than calling a program a scam that has worked for countless millions, make suggestions on how to make it stronger for young people who are going to need it when they retire and maybe just maybe advocate that our Govt. start paying back Social Security what it owes to it, because if anyone had bothered to look, its not China that holds the largest amount of US debt.

Sorry but no.

15% of ones lifetime income is no small thing.

And I am being prevented from investing that 15% of my income into a vehicle of my choice. Instead it gets thrown into a slush fund.

If I added that money taken from me for the SS slush fund to what I already save it would have added up to nearly 35% of my lifetime income and I would seriously be thinking of retiring in less than 5 years rather than the 15 it will most likely be.

Given the fact that the above statistics I cited you are true, and the fact that over 50% of Americans do not save money, someone like yourself would be the exception and not the rule. So lets say for a moment you did save that 15% over your lifetime, and the so called " slush" fund as you call it wasn't there, you would quickly find your savings eaten alive by higher state and local taxes, costs for medical expenses, and whole host of expenses that will be higher as a result of Americans that have no savings being taken care of by the state in which you live. Again, your taxes go to pay for a whole host of things you may or may not agree with, including everything from roads, dams, missiles, ships, jets, and social security, the point is thats the price you and I pay for being American citizens, if our society wished to be one where everyone was on their own and there was no shared respoinsibility then we would all be individually responsible for our own highways, defending our own nation, cleaning our own water, making sure our food is safe, etc. in the end if you were to take on the burden of all that , you would have no savings to worry about nor would you have a nation to worry about as well.

And again

People should be able to put the money taken for SS and the employer match into a private account owned by them and not the government.

The money is already taken out by law we should keep that mandate. All I am saying is that rather than being thrown in an off the books slush fund each individual should hold ownership of his own account and be able to exercise some control over his own money rather than relinquishing total control of 15% of his lifetime income to the government.

We've all seen how well the government handles money haven't we?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Forgive me but I get a bit of a chuckle from some who claim that Social Security is a "scam" or somehow they themselves are being taken advantage of. If that were the case then they would be complaining about just about every single thing they Govt. spends money on from Highways to Fighter Jets. The facts are these, according to Social Security itself the very fact they get this benefit keeps over 21 million Americans " OUT" of poverty, not to mention the fact that prior too the advent of Social Security 75% of the elderly in this nation lived in poverty according to the US House. So given these numbers, lets say for a moment we rid ourselves of Social Security to satisfy the whims of a small minority of the population because currently the program is well liked in just about every poll ever taken, those elderly I mentioned would then become the responsibility of the very people who are saying that Social Security is a scam, in terms of higher expenses , prices, and taxes to take care of them in their old age. Frankly among all the stupid things our Govt. has done in the past 15 years, and there have been many, Social Security is not one of them, and if people really wanted to see a change in the way Govt. does things then they would be just as upset over a Govt. that digs billions dollar holes in the Nevada desert and then abandons them or perhaps spends billions on weapons that are never fielded, and more so just does not manage itself well rather than advocate for the elimination for a program that will shoot themselves in the foot eventually ,regardless of how much they might tell you they can invest their own money better, and whats really interesting is this, Social Security isnt even part of the general budget . So if Social Security is a scam, so to then is every oof budget item , and I will name a few recent ones. the wars in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Medicare Part D. The point here is this, there is nothing stoppping anyone from investing their savings into whatever they wish, I myself have invested in many things over my lifetime, and have always seen Social Security as a responsibility and no different than any other as an American citizen. So perhaps rather than calling a program a scam that has worked for countless millions, make suggestions on how to make it stronger for young people who are going to need it when they retire and maybe just maybe advocate that our Govt. start paying back Social Security what it owes to it, because if anyone had bothered to look, its not China that holds the largest amount of US debt.

Sorry but no.

15% of ones lifetime income is no small thing.

And I am being prevented from investing that 15% of my income into a vehicle of my choice. Instead it gets thrown into a slush fund.

If I added that money taken from me for the SS slush fund to what I already save it would have added up to nearly 35% of my lifetime income and I would seriously be thinking of retiring in less than 5 years rather than the 15 it will most likely be.

Given the fact that the above statistics I cited you are true, and the fact that over 50% of Americans do not save money, someone like yourself would be the exception and not the rule. So lets say for a moment you did save that 15% over your lifetime, and the so called " slush" fund as you call it wasn't there, you would quickly find your savings eaten alive by higher state and local taxes, costs for medical expenses, and whole host of expenses that will be higher as a result of Americans that have no savings being taken care of by the state in which you live. Again, your taxes go to pay for a whole host of things you may or may not agree with, including everything from roads, dams, missiles, ships, jets, and social security, the point is thats the price you and I pay for being American citizens, if our society wished to be one where everyone was on their own and there was no shared respoinsibility then we would all be individually responsible for our own highways, defending our own nation, cleaning our own water, making sure our food is safe, etc. in the end if you were to take on the burden of all that , you would have no savings to worry about nor would you have a nation to worry about as well.

Oh, so if it were not for the mere pittance of Social Security, all would be lost?
The problem with liberals is you people are faithless dolts. You have zero confidence in your fellow humans to be anything but helpless.
I have heard this song before. You people who think the rest of us cannot be trusted with our own finances. That based on the lowest common denominator made up by a small minority of people who are too stupid to turn the lights on so they don't kick the ******* vacuum cleaner...
Look, social security is NOT nor was it ever intended to be something on which one lives. It is a SUPPLEMENT.
That is not the problem. The whole thing needs to be blown up and remade. Remade into a savings vehicle where the government can touch NOT ONE STINKING DIME of it. Each person pays into their OWN account. An account from which each person or in the event of their passing, a designee gets to draw from with certain limits.
The American people were fucked when the federal government gave itself the right to steal our SS money. THAT is why the system is on the verge of collapse. And that is why it sucks.
The real issue is there are just enough people who would rather eat the crumbs of the stolen bread, than go get the bread back from the cock sucker that took it.

 

[MikeK]

And again

People should be able to put the money taken for SS and the employer match into a private account owned by them and not the government.

The money is already taken out by law we should keep that mandate. All I am saying is that rather than being thrown in an off the books slush fund each individual should hold ownership of his own account and be able to exercise some control over his own money rather than relinquishing total control of 15% of his lifetime income to the government.

We've all seen how well the government handles money haven't we?

Are you saying that in the program you recommend everything should remain the same except government will have nothing to do with it? If so, where will the authority to mandate contributions from workers and their employers come from?

The success of the Social Security program is predicated on the force of Law. Its intended purpose is to forcibly prevent those who are either unwilling or incapable of planning for their old age, which most people under fifty do not truly believe (accept) will come to them, thereby imposing the burden of a massive population of destitute seniors on society -- which was the situation before the Social Security program commenced.

And it has worked flawlessly for more than seventy-five years! My allotment was deposited in my checking account this morning as it has on the first of every month for the past eleven years and is likely to continue for at least another ten years.

(Thank you, President Roosevelt!)

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And again

People should be able to put the money taken for SS and the employer match into a private account owned by them and not the government.

The money is already taken out by law we should keep that mandate. All I am saying is that rather than being thrown in an off the books slush fund each individual should hold ownership of his own account and be able to exercise some control over his own money rather than relinquishing total control of 15% of his lifetime income to the government.

We've all seen how well the government handles money haven't we?

Are you saying that in the program you recommend everything should remain the same except government will have nothing to do with it? If so, where will the authority to mandate contributions from workers and their employers come from?

The success of the Social Security program is predicated on the force of Law. Its intended purpose is to forcibly prevent those who are either unwilling or incapable of planning for their old age, which most people under fifty do not truly believe (accept) will come to them, thereby imposing the burden of a massive population of destitute seniors on society -- which was the situation before the Social Security program commenced.

And it has worked flawlessly for more than seventy-five years! My allotment was deposited in my checking account this morning as it has on the first of every month for the past eleven years and is likely to continue for at least another ten years.

(Thank you, President Roosevelt!)

Are you saying that in the program you recommend everything should remain the same except government will have nothing to do with it? If so, where will the authority to mandate contributions from workers and their employers come from?



No, he's saying the government mandates a private account is funded with the 12.4% that would otherwise go to the government.

 

[flacaltenn]

And again

People should be able to put the money taken for SS and the employer match into a private account owned by them and not the government.

The money is already taken out by law we should keep that mandate. All I am saying is that rather than being thrown in an off the books slush fund each individual should hold ownership of his own account and be able to exercise some control over his own money rather than relinquishing total control of 15% of his lifetime income to the government.

We've all seen how well the government handles money haven't we?

Are you saying that in the program you recommend everything should remain the same except government will have nothing to do with it? If so, where will the authority to mandate contributions from workers and their employers come from?

The success of the Social Security program is predicated on the force of Law. Its intended purpose is to forcibly prevent those who are either unwilling or incapable of planning for their old age, which most people under fifty do not truly believe (accept) will come to them, thereby imposing the burden of a massive population of destitute seniors on society -- which was the situation before the Social Security program commenced.

And it has worked flawlessly for more than seventy-five years! My allotment was deposited in my checking account this morning as it has on the first of every month for the past eleven years and is likely to continue for at least another ten years.

(Thank you, President Roosevelt!)

We're happy for you.. Unfortunately --- I'd have to live to age 90 to BREAK EVEN and that's not gonna happen.. In fact --- Any wage earner above $60K or so today is never gonna see a return on investment. THOSE are the metrics of how well your retirement is "invested".

Likewise -- you're ignoring the fact that by age 80 -- nearly 1/2 of the participants are taking their dirt nap. And the money that COULD HAVE been transferred to sons, daughters, neices and nephews for working poor families is not theirs to assign. I know you're a committed leftist and can't imagine how much of a generational benefit that would be for families fighting cycle of poverty issues..

It's NOT a retirement fund and it's NOT yours. It's old age insurance. Supposed to be a self-supporting program INDEPENDENT of the General Fund. It's not anymore. You are living off of the 53% of INCOME taxpayers who have ALREADY been robbed by politicians for the past surpluses and NOW have to pay for the program deficit.

FDR would NOT be pleased... It's wrecked by mismanagement in just 70 or so years..

 

[francoHFW]

AARP says "SS is going broke" is the USA's #1 myth. And history shows people DON"T save and need SS. Pub dupes!

 

[flacaltenn]

AARP says "SS is going broke" is the USA's #1 myth. And history shows people DON"T save and need SS. Pub dupes!

Don't you have a pile of dead folks ballots to forge tonight Franco??

We've been thru this before.. SS has been broke since 2010.. Youre a SUPER dupe..