Germany’s top tank destroyed on Ukrainian Frontlines: Leopard 2A6 and dozens of American Bradleys taken out

[Silver Cat]

So up to 20 million dead Russians is acceptable but a Ukraine in NATO is not? Sorry, not buying it.

You see, Neo-Nazi Ukraine (in it's old borders) in NATO means, for starters, discrimination, abusing and genocide of fifteen-twenty ethnic Russians and other Russian speaking people (like Jews, Hungarians and Greeks). Then, losing Sevastopol means losing control of Black Sea which means severe economic crisis. But what is most important, American medium-range missiles near Kharkov are more dangerous for the Russia than Soviet missiles on Cuba were dangerous for the USA. Back in 1962 the USA have a simple choice:
1. Persuade the Russians to remove those missiles from Cuba (by the combination of military and diplomatic means).
2. Fight and win a nuclear war against Cuba and, may be, the USSR (suffering severe but acceptable losses).
3. Wait until 1963, and then fight and lose a nuclear war against Cuba and the USSR (suffers terrible and unacceptable losses, or even extinction).

The situation is quite similar, for exception that there is no sea between Russia and Ukraine, as well as there were not millions of WASPs in Cuba.
Just imagine Mexico, under control of Russia and China backed anti-American Junta, who declared as their first goal - returning to the borders of 1821 and final goal - total decolonisation of the Northern America (which means genocide of all White, Black and Yellow Americans). What would you prefer - to fight and win (paying terrible price) a war against such regime, or do not fight and allow them kill you without fighting? There is no much of choice, isn't it?

 

[Silver Cat]

Except for the tens of thousands who fight in the army.

Tens of thousands, who are willingly fighting are the tiny minority. Most of others are fighting for money or because they don't have much of choice.

Evidence that more than a tiny minority feel that way?

The very fact of Rebellion in Russian-speaking regions as well as necessarity of extremely anti-democratic measures (like Odessa's Massacre in 2014) to supress it.

That seems like delusion give the oppression in Russia under Putin.

It depends on your definition of the term "oppression". At least Putins regime allow them to speak their language.

 

[BackAgain]

Pretty selective headline.

Yes, instruments of war do get damaged and destroyed in war.

 

[Silver Cat]

Do you think the Ukrainians would agree?

Many of them would. The "tiny minority" wouldn't.

Hardly speculation, it is logical question based on Russia's reasons for invading Ukraine. Latvia is already in NATO, would you condone Russia invading it? What is the difference between Latvia and Ukraine?

It depends. In the case of Latvia's attempt to genocide it's Russian population - NATO membership won't save them.

 

[alang1216]

You see, Neo-Nazi Ukraine (in it's old borders) in NATO means, for starters, discrimination, abusing and genocide of fifteen-twenty ethnic Russians and other Russian speaking people (like Jews, Hungarians and Greeks).

Ask the ethnic minorities in Russia, Chechnya for example, if they suffer under Russian rule.

Then, losing Sevastopol means losing control of Black Sea which means severe economic crisis.

Bad for the Russians, good for the Ukrainians. It is not Russia's only access to the Black Sea.

But what is most important, American medium-range missiles near Kharkov are more dangerous for the Russia than Soviet missiles on Cuba were dangerous for the USA. Back in 1962 the USA have a simple choice:
1. Persuade the Russians to remove those missiles from Cuba (by the combination of military and diplomatic means).
2. Fight and win a nuclear war against Cuba and, may be, the USSR (suffering severe but acceptable losses).
3. Wait until 1963, and then fight and lose a nuclear war against Cuba and the USSR (suffers terrible and unacceptable losses, or even extinction).

Russia has a long history of invading its' neighbors so it is hard to feel sorry for them when countries that have been invaded/occupied take steps to ensure their independence.

The situation is quite similar, for exception that there is no sea between Russia and Ukraine, as well as there were not millions of WASPs in Cuba.
Just imagine Mexico, under control of Russia and China backed anti-American Junta, who declared as their first goal - returning to the borders of 1821 and final goal - total decolonisation of the Northern America (which means genocide of all White, Black and Yellow Americans). What would you prefer - to fight and win (paying terrible price) a war against such regime, or do not fight and allow them kill you without fighting? There is no much of choice, isn't it?

What if pigs had wings?

 

[alang1216]

Tens of thousands, who are willingly fighting are the tiny minority. Most of others are fighting for money or because they don't have much of choice.

Why are Russian troops fighting? Wagner folk were mercenaries.

The very fact of Rebellion in Russian-speaking regions as well as necessarity of extremely anti-democratic measures (like Odessa's Massacre in 2014) to supress it.

That appears to have been between Ukrainians. How much was instigated by Russia?

It depends on your definition of the term "oppression". At least Putins regime allow them to speak their language.

So long as they don't speak ill of Putin. Some freedom.

 

[Silver Cat]

Ask the ethnic minorities in Russia, Chechnya for example, if they suffer under Russian rule.

They were asked. Actually, right now Chechnya is one of them most pro-Putin regions. And yes, they are fighting against Ukrainian Neo-Nazies fiercerly.

Bad for the Russians, good for the Ukrainians. It is not Russia's only access to the Black Sea.

That's why the Russians are ready to fight for Crimea.

Russia has a long history of invading its' neighbors so it is hard to feel sorry for them when countries that have been invaded/occupied take steps to ensure their independence.

I know, that Ukrainians, Poles or Lithuanians may have their reasons for Russophobia as well as many peoples in the world have their reasons to hate Americans. But it's simply irrelevant. We are talking about avoiding or fighting the nuclear wars. And being simultaneously aggressive, dangerous and vulnerable (as America under Biden's rule) is the direct way to provoke and lose a nuclear war.

What if pigs had wings?

I just explain why the Russians will prefer to fight and win a nuclear war in 2023 (losing 20 million citizens) rather then retreat and then fight and lose a nuclear war in 2025 (and be totally genocided). American missiles in Kharkov region are less acceptable for the Russians than Russian missiles in Texas are acceptable for the Americans.

 

[Silver Cat]

Why are Russian troops fighting? Wagner folk were mercenaries.

They are fighting mostly for self-defense. "We are Russians, you attack one of us - you attack all of us".

That appears to have been between Ukrainians. How much was instigated by Russia?

You see, in the case of the civil war in Canada, were Russia and China backed French-speaking Nazies banned any public usage of English language and Protestantism, absolute majority of English speaking Americans will describe English speaking Canadians as "us" and will support them (officially and unofficially). Almost the same situation as it was during the Mexican War. "We" (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) vs "them" (Half-Indian Spanish-speaking Catholics).

Ukraine is not "Russian Vietnam" or "Russian Afghanistan", where ordinary American soldiers didn't see the difference between good guys and bad guys. It's "Russian Canada" or even "Russian California". An ordinary Russian soldier can see the difference between "Vatniks" and "Bander Logs" in few minutes of conversation.

So long as they don't speak ill of Putin. Some freedom.

Plenty of people speaks ill of Putin. It's not a crime. Crime is to speak ill of Putin (or Army, or Government, or an ordinary citizen), being paid by a foreign state and don't declaring it. But it's a crime in the USA, too. Anyway, the Russians can criticize LGBT ideology and the Americans can't.

 

[xyz]

Anyway, the Russians can criticize LGBT ideology and the Americans can't.

Yes they can. Freedom of speech. Still exists in the US, no longer exists in Russia.

 

[alang1216]

They were asked. Actually, right now Chechnya is one of them most pro-Putin regions. And yes, they are fighting against Ukrainian Neo-Nazies fiercerly.

The Russian installed leadership or the people that fought against Russia?

That's why the Russians are ready to fight for Crimea.

The Ukrainians are likewise ready to fight for Crimea.

I know, that Ukrainians, Poles or Lithuanians may have their reasons for Russophobia as well as many peoples in the world have their reasons to hate Americans. But it's simply irrelevant. We are talking about avoiding or fighting the nuclear wars. And being simultaneously aggressive, dangerous and vulnerable (as America under Biden's rule) is the direct way to provoke and lose a nuclear war.

Any European country that lived under Soviet rule has reason to fear Russia, including Ukraine.

I just explain why the Russians will prefer to fight and win a nuclear war in 2023 (losing 20 million citizens) rather then retreat and then fight and lose a nuclear war in 2025 (and be totally genocided). American missiles in Kharkov region are less acceptable for the Russians than Russian missiles in Texas are acceptable for the Americans.

I think what the Russians are prepared to say is far different from what they are prepared to do.

 

[alang1216]

They are fighting mostly for self-defense. "We are Russians, you attack one of us - you attack all of us".

Does that include the 100s of thousands that fled Russia when Putin announced the draft there?

Plenty of people speaks ill of Putin. It's not a crime. Crime is to speak ill of Putin (or Army, or Government, or an ordinary citizen), being paid by a foreign state and don't declaring it. But it's a crime in the USA, too. Anyway, the Russians can criticize LGBT ideology and the Americans can't.

 

[alang1216]

Many of them would. The "tiny minority" wouldn't.


It depends. In the case of Latvia's attempt to genocide it's Russian population - NATO membership won't save them.

Do you have any evidence for such assertions and allegations? I find just the opposite.

 

[Vrenn]

Do you have any evidence for such assertions and allegations? I find just the opposite.

He's just spouting Russian Propaganda as it's said on the States TV and such.

 

[alang1216]

He's just spouting Russian Propaganda as it's said on the States TV and such.

Is he even real or is he a Russian bot? I don't know that I could tell the difference.

 

[Quentin111]

Well, in the "war of factories" between Russia and Western countries, the advantage is on the side of the West. Simply because the economy of Western countries is much more powerful than the Russian economy.

 

[Silver Cat]

Do you have any evidence for such assertions and allegations? I find just the opposite.

Yes.

 

[Silver Cat]

Well, in the "war of factories" between Russia and Western countries, the advantage is on the side of the West. Simply because the economy of Western countries is much more powerful than the Russian economy.

Actually, no. Russia produce 1600 tanks/year, the West (actually, the USA only) produce 20 tanks/year. Plus, Russia buy tanks from China and India.

 

[xyz]

Yes.
View attachment 802362

So you're saying Russia wants to invade Estonia?

 

[Silver Cat]

Does that include the 100s of thousands that fled Russia when Putin announced the draft there?

More than half of them already returned home. But anyway - there is a difference between understanding what things are right and what do you actually wish to do. How many Americans/Brits/Germans/Poles believe that it is necessary to defend Ukraine, and how many actually came to fight for it?

 

[Silver Cat]

So you're saying Russia wants to invade Estonia?

No. Russia don't want to invade Estonia. But in the case of civil unrests and actual attempts of Russian genocide by Estonian government, Russia won't have a lot of options but sending (officially or unofficially) help to the Russians in Estonia.