German tanks unable to defeat Russian tanks

[Camp]

Plenty more where these came from.

utin s Russia is weak - the UK in many ways is stronger World news The Guardian

Did anyone else notice what happened to Russian tanks when confronted by French and American forces in
Iraq I?

German Leopard 2 A6's were used extensively in Afghanistan and proved to be one of the best tanks in the world. Since the Russian upgrade of a small percentage of it's T-72 to either T-80's or T-90's, NATO, including Germany have been upgrading the Leopard to the A7+ series. In addition the fleet of leftover Russian tanks in Poland are steadily being upgraded to the now called P-91 model which is compatible with the Russian T-90. NATO tanks are as good or better than anything Russia can produce. The catch is that Russia can only afford to upgrade and produce the newer versions in limited quantities while it's main force includes older versions, even T-64's and 55's. NATO tends to upgrade in large quantity and their entire fleets.

You have no clue. The A7+ was made to fight insurgents, not tanks. Germany has 20 A7+. You think, 20 tanks can defeat Russia? Nato is largely the US forces. European armies are small and slight.

Read here about what funny jokes the European armies are:
"Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.

The shortage of European munitions, along with the limited number of aircraft available, has raised doubts among some officials about whether the United States can continue to avoid returning to the air campaign if Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi hangs on to power for several more months."
NATO runs short on some munitions in Libya - The Washington Post

By the way, there are no tanks designed to fight insurgents.....never have been, never could be.

The A7 is. It is airconditioned ("insurgents" show up mostly in warm regions) and its protection focuses on rpg and planted explosives. The A7 also originally had a very short gun to be able to turn the turret in narrow streets.

While it may be optimized for service in a particular region, no tank has ever been designed to fight insurgents.

He seems to be confusing the Leopard 2 PSO (Peace Support Operations) variant that is designed for urban operations with the standard Leopard 2 A6 or A7 variants. He is just making guesses, and not very good ones. He thinks insurgents usually show up in warm places and that is why tanks have air conditioners and they have to have special armor to defend against rpg's.

 

[Liminal]

Germans only tremble at the thought of Russian aggression because of the possible loss of an important economic partner. But don't worry, the Russians will have to go through Poland first. A defeat in Poland would be very embarrassing for the Russians.

Poland is too weak to stop the Russians and is a major advocate of the US missile shield. If Poland can stop the Russians, the roundabout traffic of Nauru can.

Or is it because the Russians just don't have any plans to invade anyone.....like your earlier dishonest explanation regarding the Ukraine.

True. Russia has no plans to invade Europe or Ukraine. But if Nato support for crazy Ukrainian regime doesn´t end, it might become unavoidable.
Russia masses more forces near Ukraine border - Telegraph

I don't think the Ukraine is worth the effort. They had a chance to get their shit together and join NATO, it didn't happen. If Russia were to start this same kind of nonsense with the Baltic states, there would be an entirely different outcome.

Russia didn´t start anything in Ukraine. Nazis, supported by the West, started the unrest and forced the legitimate government to to resign.
Ukraine s Nazi party in the government. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

 

[Liminal]

Plenty more where these came from.

utin s Russia is weak - the UK in many ways is stronger World news The Guardian

German Leopard 2 A6's were used extensively in Afghanistan and proved to be one of the best tanks in the world. Since the Russian upgrade of a small percentage of it's T-72 to either T-80's or T-90's, NATO, including Germany have been upgrading the Leopard to the A7+ series. In addition the fleet of leftover Russian tanks in Poland are steadily being upgraded to the now called P-91 model which is compatible with the Russian T-90. NATO tanks are as good or better than anything Russia can produce. The catch is that Russia can only afford to upgrade and produce the newer versions in limited quantities while it's main force includes older versions, even T-64's and 55's. NATO tends to upgrade in large quantity and their entire fleets.

You have no clue. The A7+ was made to fight insurgents, not tanks. Germany has 20 A7+. You think, 20 tanks can defeat Russia? Nato is largely the US forces. European armies are small and slight.

Read here about what funny jokes the European armies are:
"Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.

The shortage of European munitions, along with the limited number of aircraft available, has raised doubts among some officials about whether the United States can continue to avoid returning to the air campaign if Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi hangs on to power for several more months."
NATO runs short on some munitions in Libya - The Washington Post

By the way, there are no tanks designed to fight insurgents.....never have been, never could be.

The A7 is. It is airconditioned ("insurgents" show up mostly in warm regions) and its protection focuses on rpg and planted explosives. The A7 also originally had a very short gun to be able to turn the turret in narrow streets.

While it may be optimized for service in a particular region, no tank has ever been designed to fight insurgents.

He seems to be confusing the Leopard 2 PSO (Peace Support Operations) variant that is designed for urban operations with the standard Leopard 2 A6 or A7 variants. He is just making guesses, and not very good ones. He thinks insurgents usually show up in warm places and that is why tanks have air conditioners and they have to have special armor to defend against rpg's.

He obviously doesn't know anything about any kind of warfare.

 

[Bleipriester]

Plenty more where these came from.

utin s Russia is weak - the UK in many ways is stronger World news The Guardian

German Leopard 2 A6's were used extensively in Afghanistan and proved to be one of the best tanks in the world. Since the Russian upgrade of a small percentage of it's T-72 to either T-80's or T-90's, NATO, including Germany have been upgrading the Leopard to the A7+ series. In addition the fleet of leftover Russian tanks in Poland are steadily being upgraded to the now called P-91 model which is compatible with the Russian T-90. NATO tanks are as good or better than anything Russia can produce. The catch is that Russia can only afford to upgrade and produce the newer versions in limited quantities while it's main force includes older versions, even T-64's and 55's. NATO tends to upgrade in large quantity and their entire fleets.

You have no clue. The A7+ was made to fight insurgents, not tanks. Germany has 20 A7+. You think, 20 tanks can defeat Russia? Nato is largely the US forces. European armies are small and slight.

Read here about what funny jokes the European armies are:
"Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.

The shortage of European munitions, along with the limited number of aircraft available, has raised doubts among some officials about whether the United States can continue to avoid returning to the air campaign if Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi hangs on to power for several more months."
NATO runs short on some munitions in Libya - The Washington Post

By the way, there are no tanks designed to fight insurgents.....never have been, never could be.

The A7 is. It is airconditioned ("insurgents" show up mostly in warm regions) and its protection focuses on rpg and planted explosives. The A7 also originally had a very short gun to be able to turn the turret in narrow streets.

While it may be optimized for service in a particular region, no tank has ever been designed to fight insurgents.

He seems to be confusing the Leopard 2 PSO (Peace Support Operations) variant that is designed for urban operations with the standard Leopard 2 A6 or A7 variants. He is just making guesses, and not very good ones. He thinks insurgents usually show up in warm places and that is why tanks have air conditioners and they have to have special armor to defend against rpg's.

You are really clueless. Leopard, M1 and other modern tanks are still very vulnerable to rpg attacks.

 

[Bleipriester]

Poland is too weak to stop the Russians and is a major advocate of the US missile shield. If Poland can stop the Russians, the roundabout traffic of Nauru can.

Or is it because the Russians just don't have any plans to invade anyone.....like your earlier dishonest explanation regarding the Ukraine.

True. Russia has no plans to invade Europe or Ukraine. But if Nato support for crazy Ukrainian regime doesn´t end, it might become unavoidable.
Russia masses more forces near Ukraine border - Telegraph

I don't think the Ukraine is worth the effort. They had a chance to get their shit together and join NATO, it didn't happen. If Russia were to start this same kind of nonsense with the Baltic states, there would be an entirely different outcome.

Russia didn´t start anything in Ukraine. Nazis, supported by the West, started the unrest and forced the legitimate government to to resign.
Ukraine s Nazi party in the government. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

 

[Camp]

You have no clue. The A7+ was made to fight insurgents, not tanks. Germany has 20 A7+. You think, 20 tanks can defeat Russia? Nato is largely the US forces. European armies are small and slight.

Read here about what funny jokes the European armies are:
"Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.

The shortage of European munitions, along with the limited number of aircraft available, has raised doubts among some officials about whether the United States can continue to avoid returning to the air campaign if Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi hangs on to power for several more months."
NATO runs short on some munitions in Libya - The Washington Post

By the way, there are no tanks designed to fight insurgents.....never have been, never could be.

The A7 is. It is airconditioned ("insurgents" show up mostly in warm regions) and its protection focuses on rpg and planted explosives. The A7 also originally had a very short gun to be able to turn the turret in narrow streets.

While it may be optimized for service in a particular region, no tank has ever been designed to fight insurgents.

He seems to be confusing the Leopard 2 PSO (Peace Support Operations) variant that is designed for urban operations with the standard Leopard 2 A6 or A7 variants. He is just making guesses, and not very good ones. He thinks insurgents usually show up in warm places and that is why tanks have air conditioners and they have to have special armor to defend against rpg's.

You are really clueless. Leopard, M1 and other modern tanks are still very vulnerable to rpg attacks.

I thought you would have mentioned that add on armor to defend against RPG's were standard. As RPG munitions are developed and advanced, so to is the add on armor. The standard infantry RPG 7 is not a great threat, the RPG 29 and even newer variants can be, but the advanced counter armor and measures seem to have the situation under control. How many MBT's were taken out by RPG's in Iraq? Go ahead and use your fingers on one hand to count them. Even if you are missing a few fingers you will be able to do it.

 

[Bleipriester]

By the way, there are no tanks designed to fight insurgents.....never have been, never could be.

The A7 is. It is airconditioned ("insurgents" show up mostly in warm regions) and its protection focuses on rpg and planted explosives. The A7 also originally had a very short gun to be able to turn the turret in narrow streets.

While it may be optimized for service in a particular region, no tank has ever been designed to fight insurgents.

He seems to be confusing the Leopard 2 PSO (Peace Support Operations) variant that is designed for urban operations with the standard Leopard 2 A6 or A7 variants. He is just making guesses, and not very good ones. He thinks insurgents usually show up in warm places and that is why tanks have air conditioners and they have to have special armor to defend against rpg's.

You are really clueless. Leopard, M1 and other modern tanks are still very vulnerable to rpg attacks.

I thought you would have mentioned that add on armor to defend against RPG's were standard. As RPG munitions are developed and advanced, so to is the add on armor. The standard infantry RPG 7 is not a great threat, the RPG 29 and even newer variants can be, but the advanced counter armor and measures seem to have the situation under control. How many MBT's were taken out by RPG's in Iraq? Go ahead and use your fingers on one hand to count them. Even if you are missing a few fingers you will be able to do it.

The war in Iraq consisted of battles on the open desert where rpgs are almost pointless. We are talking about urban warfare, where rpgs are launched from closes distances.

 

[Liminal]

Or is it because the Russians just don't have any plans to invade anyone.....like your earlier dishonest explanation regarding the Ukraine.

True. Russia has no plans to invade Europe or Ukraine. But if Nato support for crazy Ukrainian regime doesn´t end, it might become unavoidable.
Russia masses more forces near Ukraine border - Telegraph

I don't think the Ukraine is worth the effort. They had a chance to get their shit together and join NATO, it didn't happen. If Russia were to start this same kind of nonsense with the Baltic states, there would be an entirely different outcome.

Russia didn´t start anything in Ukraine. Nazis, supported by the West, started the unrest and forced the legitimate government to to resign.
Ukraine s Nazi party in the government. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

 

[there4eyeM]

Large targets are militarily impractical today given the technologies of detection and destruction. Aircraft carriers, tanks and others come to mind. 'Personned' war machines as well would seem obsolete. Seeing how much more expensive, limited in range and performance and dangerous fighter planes and bombers are than remote controlled devices, continuing with such weapons in any more than a very small scale seems only justified by some ego problem.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

​

The times, when the opponents of the German army trembled on its approach, are over. Today, the armed joke, whose aircrafts can´t fly and assault rifles can´t shoot precise, is not even suitable for parades. After the debacle of the standard assault rifle of the Bundeswehr and the reports about the terrible condition of its air fleet and barracks it came now out that the ammunition German tanks use is likely unable to penetrate Russian T80/90´s armor. The Bundeswehr recently added about 100 used tanks to its tiny forces due to the conflict in the Ukraine. Now, there are some 328 tanks in service. Honestly, if the Russians would attack, any resistance with 328 tanks is suicide whether they are able to destroy Russian tanks or not.
Unclear is, if American M1 tanks are affected. M1 tanks use German L/44 cannons that were produced in the US under license.

​

Keine durchschlagkr ftige Munition Schreckensszenario Im Kampf ist der Leopard 2 gegen russische Panzer chancenlos - Politik - FOCUS Online - Nachrichten

Days of tanks killing other tanks ended with WWII. A-10's 30mm DU-firing cannon makes short work of any tank's armor, to say nothing of any number of air-to-ground missiles.

 

[Bleipriester]

True. Russia has no plans to invade Europe or Ukraine. But if Nato support for crazy Ukrainian regime doesn´t end, it might become unavoidable.
Russia masses more forces near Ukraine border - Telegraph

I don't think the Ukraine is worth the effort. They had a chance to get their shit together and join NATO, it didn't happen. If Russia were to start this same kind of nonsense with the Baltic states, there would be an entirely different outcome.

Russia didn´t start anything in Ukraine. Nazis, supported by the West, started the unrest and forced the legitimate government to to resign.
Ukraine s Nazi party in the government. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

 

[Bleipriester]

​

The times, when the opponents of the German army trembled on its approach, are over. Today, the armed joke, whose aircrafts can´t fly and assault rifles can´t shoot precise, is not even suitable for parades. After the debacle of the standard assault rifle of the Bundeswehr and the reports about the terrible condition of its air fleet and barracks it came now out that the ammunition German tanks use is likely unable to penetrate Russian T80/90´s armor. The Bundeswehr recently added about 100 used tanks to its tiny forces due to the conflict in the Ukraine. Now, there are some 328 tanks in service. Honestly, if the Russians would attack, any resistance with 328 tanks is suicide whether they are able to destroy Russian tanks or not.
Unclear is, if American M1 tanks are affected. M1 tanks use German L/44 cannons that were produced in the US under license.

​

Keine durchschlagkr ftige Munition Schreckensszenario Im Kampf ist der Leopard 2 gegen russische Panzer chancenlos - Politik - FOCUS Online - Nachrichten

Days of tanks killing other tanks ended with WWII. A-10's 30mm DU-firing cannon makes short work of any tank's armor, to say nothing of any number of air-to-ground missiles.

This is not true. I would say, the A-10 is a Schlachtflieger. Schlachtflieger were heavily used in WWII. The last war in which the US faced a serious enemy tank force was the Korean war. Once the US gets involved in a war against an army that is able to intercept aircrafts and has aircrafts as well, tanks will be considered a major weapon again by "experts".
Erdkampfflugzeug Wikipedia

 

[Bleipriester]

See here how rpg deals damage to armor:

 

[Liminal]

I don't think the Ukraine is worth the effort. They had a chance to get their shit together and join NATO, it didn't happen. If Russia were to start this same kind of nonsense with the Baltic states, there would be an entirely different outcome.

Russia didn´t start anything in Ukraine. Nazis, supported by the West, started the unrest and forced the legitimate government to to resign.
Ukraine s Nazi party in the government. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

 

[Bleipriester]

Russia didn´t start anything in Ukraine. Nazis, supported by the West, started the unrest and forced the legitimate government to to resign.
Ukraine s Nazi party in the government. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

I fear, it won´t help you to explain it to you.

 

[Liminal]

There don't seem to be any good reasons to take you seriously.

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

I fear, it won´t help you to explain it to you.

You obviously don't know anything about any kind of warfare. I guess it's just too bad for simpletons like you that real life isn't like a war movie.

 

[Bleipriester]

Have fun in your parallel world, then.

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

I fear, it won´t help you to explain it to you.

You obviously don't know anything about any kind of warfare. I guess it's just too bad for simpletons like you that real life isn't like a war movie.

Are you always going over to personal attacks when your arguments are proven to be null and void?

 

[Liminal]

Tanks are obsolete, that's why we aren't building any new designs. However many tanks the Russians have can be easily overwhelmed by a larger number of Hellfire equipped drones.

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

I fear, it won´t help you to explain it to you.

You obviously don't know anything about any kind of warfare. I guess it's just too bad for simpletons like you that real life isn't like a war movie.

Are you always going over to personal attacks when your arguments are proven to be null and void?

You really don't get it, do you. There is no argument here, your opinions don't matter, facts matter. I am in possession of the facts while you are not. It's just that simple.

 

[Bleipriester]

Didn´t you wrote yesterday, that tanks are still important?

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

I fear, it won´t help you to explain it to you.

You obviously don't know anything about any kind of warfare. I guess it's just too bad for simpletons like you that real life isn't like a war movie.

Are you always going over to personal attacks when your arguments are proven to be null and void?

You really don't get it, do you. There is no argument here, your opinions don't matter, facts matter. I am in possession of the facts while you are not. It's just that simple.

You have provided no facts so far. Thus, your claim is just the continuation of the nonsense you spread in this thread.

 

[Liminal]

And? How does those two statements conflict? Any idea?

I fear, it won´t help you to explain it to you.

You obviously don't know anything about any kind of warfare. I guess it's just too bad for simpletons like you that real life isn't like a war movie.

Are you always going over to personal attacks when your arguments are proven to be null and void?

You really don't get it, do you. There is no argument here, your opinions don't matter, facts matter. I am in possession of the facts while you are not. It's just that simple.

You have provided no facts so far. Thus, your claim is just the continuation of the nonsense you spread in this thread.

You're just embarrassing yourself. You don't know anything about tanks or armored warfare, and it's obvious to anyone who does.