Genetic studies on Palestinians and Israelis
- Thread starter amity1844
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aris2chat
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- Feb 17, 2012
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History of the Jews in the Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mapping the Jewish Communities of the Byzantine Empire
The Greek Bible Translations of the Byzantine Jews | Nicholas de Lange - Academia.edu
Ch 7 Jewish, Early Christian & Byzantine Art by Dawn Nicole Hamby on Prezi
Why do people speak before they think about checking facts? It takes seconds.
Roudy
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- Mar 16, 2012
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Ha ha ha. But you see, they never let the facts get in their way, do they?
Roudy
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Yes, the fact that the Palestinian Mufti was a nazi who meshed Nazi ideology into Arab nationalism and Islamism is a no brainer.I am finding other good sources for you.This one is such a no brainer I am not going to bother.
teddyearp
Gold Member
Like maybe tell us the name of the book then.
And you STILL after being asked over and over and over again can't (or won't because you can't) come up with some sort of corroboration to your 'claim' of cannibalism.
I am finding other good sources for you.
Your lack of response to my requests for something to prove your point is a no brainer alright. A link. Name of the book, something?
Please? And I am not even calling you names.
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Now Billy Boy is going to bring up for us some site where a respected scientific journal is discussing this very, very important finding. He is also going to find for us any notice of conferences which have gone on attended by top geneticsts in their field discussing this important "finding." After all, when something like this is found out, there is so much written about it.
amity1844
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No one has refused to submit to genetic testing (?!?!?), they have been tested at Hebrew Univerisyt/Hadassah Medical Center study cited earlier. Palestinians are 80% - 85% descended from ancient Jews who remained behind after 70AD.
Here is the whole bibliography, and also please look at the films I posted earlier:
1. Ben-Gurion, David & Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. The Land of Israel in the Past and in the Present. The Yiddish version, New York, 1918.
2. Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. Populations of Our Land. Warsaw: The Labor Committee of "Brit Hanoar" and the World Khaluts Center, 1932.
3. Writings of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, Vol. no. 5 – Population of the Land of Israel – Tel Aviv: Mitspeh Publishing, 1936 (identical contents to source 2).
4. Ben-Gurion, David. An Inquiry into the Origins of the Fellahin. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.
5. Belkind, Israel. Arabs in the Land of Israel. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.
6. Misinai, Tsvi. The Road Map to the Third Intifada – The roots and solution to the Problem of the Holy Land. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006.
7. Yarden, Elon. A Common Homeland Not a Disputed Territory. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006. (Contains sources 4 and 5 as appendices).
8. Yarden, Elon. Zion in Justice Shall be Redeemed (An Alternative to the Oslo Accords). Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, Tel Aviv, 2002.
9. Misinai, Tsvi. Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2007. (The book is a shortened version of source 6, written in a popular style).
10. Writings of Ber Borokhov, Volume 1. Kibbuts Meukhad Publishing, 1955.
11. Oral Telling of Samaritan Traditions, Yitskhak Ben Tsvi, A.B. Samaritan News, Volume 370-371, page 8, October 8, 1985.
12. מבנה ציבור בכפר יטא שבדרום הר חברון – יובל ברוך, רשות העתיקות ירושלים – מחקרי יהודה ושומרון תשנ"ט, כרך תשיעי. http://daat.ac.il/daat/israel/yehuda/mehkare-9-baruhl.PDF
13. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes M. F. Hammer, A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonne-Tamir PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA(, Volume 67, No. 12, pp 6769-6774, June 6, 2000. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes
14. High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews Almut Nebel • Dvora Filon • Deborah A. Weiss • Michael Weale • Marina Faerman • Ariella Oppenheim • Mark G. Thomas Human Genetics, Volume 107, pp 630-641, 2000. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf
15. The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 69, pp 1095-1112, 2001. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1274378
16. Genetics of congenital deafness in the Palestinian population: multiple connection 26 alleles with shared origins in the Middle East. Shanin H, Walsh T, Sobe T, Lynch E, King MC, Avraham KB, Kanaan M. Human Genetics 110(3):284-9, Mar 2002. http://www.tau.ac.il/~karena/manuscriptspdf/2002/Shahin_et_al_2002.pdf
17. The Origin of Palestinians and Their Genetic Relatedness With Other Mediterranean Populations Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, Nagah Elaiwa, Carlos Silvera, Ahmed Rostom, Juan Moscoso, Eduardo Gómez-Casado, Luis Allende, Pilar Varela, and Jorge MartÃnez-Laso Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001) http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~dura...ness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf
18. Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians Robin McKie, science editor, The Observer, Sunday 25 November 2001 Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians | World news | The Observer
19. The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin Biology Direct Biology Direct | Full text | The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms
20. Bohm, David. Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Routledge, 198
I have to thank Tsvi Misinai for this excellent bibliography.
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Show us something from a respectable scientific journal plus the discussions at a scientific conference which claims that the Arabs were actually Jews. My goodness, such important findings would be the talk of the town. Amity is trying so hard to get those millions of so-called Palestinian refugees back into Israel so that they can eventually run the country, and the Jews can become the Dhimmis like they were in the other Arab countries.
amity1844
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I agree, I think it is totally news worthy. And as you saw, there was a television program in Israel about this. You can watch it if you will make use of the videos provided.
I think, I really suspect, that this is being actively suppressed. I couldn't find a single thing on JSTOR until I asked Tsvi Misinai for a reference.
Now read down to sources 12 to 19 above. Those are the genetic studies and papers written about them. They include citations, National Academy of Sciences, etc. It is pretty technical stuff, actually. I think for you and me we are better off just watching the video about Dr. Oppenheim's study.
I think, I really suspect, that this is being actively suppressed. I couldn't find a single thing on JSTOR until I asked Tsvi Misinai for a reference.
Now read down to sources 12 to 19 above. Those are the genetic studies and papers written about them. They include citations, National Academy of Sciences, etc. It is pretty technical stuff, actually. I think for you and me we are better off just watching the video about Dr. Oppenheim's study.
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A big thing like this wouldn't be surpressed. It would be covered in a respectable scientific journal and discussed in length. Moreover, there would be a conference attended by top geneticists in the field. Since you can't provide us with any evidence of this being covered in a scientific journal read by geneticists all over the world, just keep on posting your nonsense that the Arabs were really Jews at one time. I will reiterate -- the bottom line for you posting about this over and over is that you want the viewers (and God only knows where else you post) to believe that all these so-called Palestine refugees should be allowed back into Israel because they are really Jews so that you friends can swarm into Israel and take over.
amity1844
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OK, then its NOT being suppressed. Not important.
The important thing is that some very credible scientific studies undertaken by reputable ISRAELI academic institutions and headed by one of the forement researchers in population genetics have proven that Palestinians descended in large part from ancient Jews. Bas! Bikafe.
The important thing is that some very credible scientific studies undertaken by reputable ISRAELI academic institutions and headed by one of the forement researchers in population genetics have proven that Palestinians descended in large part from ancient Jews. Bas! Bikafe.
I think the knowledgeable geneticists of the world would actually laugh at you for continually bringing this up. However, by now the viewers are smart enough to realize what your rationale is for bringing this up ad nauseam. Remember, Amity, be sure to send you DNA sample in to a reputable lab so they can ascertain that you are truly the Missing Link.
amity1844
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Sally, you don't read books so you don't know how to evaluate any source at all. You are totally victimized by anyone who wants to manipulate you.
THESE ARE among the TOP GENETICISTS in the world. Dr. Oppenheim is very well regarded in Israel and in the entire world.
THESE ARE among the TOP GENETICISTS in the world. Dr. Oppenheim is very well regarded in Israel and in the entire world.
Then if these are the top geneticists in the world and this is such an important finding, you should be able to find their work in some top-notch scientific journal for all the other geneticists around the world to read about this earth-shattering finding that all the Arabs are really descended from the Jews. I will be waiting for the article in some respectable scientific journal from you as well as evidence that a conference was held by top geneticists in the field discussing this finding. Until then, with you repeating this ad nauseam, it is only showing the viewers how desperate you are for your friends to come swarming back into the area in huge numbers to take over the Jews.
Meanwhile, viewers, you will keep seeing Amity bringing this up all the time because after all she feels that if the world believes these Arabs really had Jewish ancestors, all her friends from around the world will be able to come in hordes to take over the country. I have a better idea, since Amity is so concerned with genetics, perhaps she should try to have the Egyptians send in samples of their DNA so that it can be established which Egypt Muslim is actually a descendent of the early Christians who were in Egypt when the Arabs left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded Egypt. This way perhaps if these Muslims find out that they have Christian ancestors, they will allow the Christian Copts to practice their beliefs in peace.
amity1844
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Those citations I have given you over a dozen times ARE the top-notch scientific journals, Sally.
I think probably you just don't know how to read the citations. This is incredible. You cannot possibly be as ignorant as you are pretending to be.
Frankly, the Palestinians I knew were fairly well versed in this subject, at least to the point of realizing they had Jewish ancestors. I think the 85% thing is a bit surprising to me, but not really that surprising. When I asked a couple of savvy Palestinians 30+ years ago, "Do you think Palestinians might be descended from the ancient Jews?" their answer was "Of course, Palestinians are descended from everyone who ever inhabited Palestine" and so that turns out to be true. It doesn't really have any implications for Palestinians, though. For the most part of course they aren't going to want to return to their Jewish roots in that sense, but just want to return to that land that has always been theirs.
The whole reason I started the conversation with my Fateh friends, by the way, was that I had just gotten back from Israel and was more than slightly confused by all the Palestinian houses with stars of David. I think the first few I saw were when I went to look at Deir Yassin and was wondering if I had found it or not because of the stars of David on the buildings. I also even wondered if maybe Israel had later had them carved with stars of David as if to deny they were ever Arab houses?? But then elsewhere I saw more, and more, and more houses with the star of David motif. I kept thinking, well the Jewish presence in Palestine 200-300 years ago when these houses were built was pretty much limited to Jerusalem, so why do all these obviously Arab stone houses have stars of David?" So I just figured it was a very old cultural motif that had been repeated from ancient times, just an aesthetic design with no particular religious meaning intended by those who built the houses. I still think that is the case. I don't think the people of Deir Yassin were Marranos like Tsvi Misinai seems to. And I doubt there are very many Palestinians whose Jewish roots remain within living memory, even though it is pretty clear that conversion has been a gradual process, and it didn't all happen in the 7th century! But Palestinians have long historical memories, and some obviously do remember. Tsvi Misinai found quite a few! See the videos I posted, they are fascinating. And truly I believe he is right that many Palestinians, aware of their own culture and cultural elements that are specific to Palestine, have the sense to know they are descended from ancient Jews even if they don't remember when the conversion happened. I bet Tsvi Misinai is right, about half of Palestinians know this intuitively.
Just as I had known, it just makes sense, that the Jewish people did not just go extinct in that land, but rather assimilated with everything else going on there throughout history, so it wasn't that surprising, actually. I think it is Zionists who are going to have the hardest time with this. And I so love to see Zionists at a loss for words.
And by the way I am sure the same genetic studies have been done on Egyptians, Copts included, because people have long been interested in ancient Egyptians' connection with sub-Saharan Africa, Crete, etc. This subject is called "archaeogenetics" or "genetic history" and it is really interesting and "hot" right now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history
If you are interested you can send in a cheek swab and about $100 bucks to any one of several different research groups and find out all sorts of interesting info about your own history.
I think probably you just don't know how to read the citations. This is incredible. You cannot possibly be as ignorant as you are pretending to be.
Frankly, the Palestinians I knew were fairly well versed in this subject, at least to the point of realizing they had Jewish ancestors. I think the 85% thing is a bit surprising to me, but not really that surprising. When I asked a couple of savvy Palestinians 30+ years ago, "Do you think Palestinians might be descended from the ancient Jews?" their answer was "Of course, Palestinians are descended from everyone who ever inhabited Palestine" and so that turns out to be true. It doesn't really have any implications for Palestinians, though. For the most part of course they aren't going to want to return to their Jewish roots in that sense, but just want to return to that land that has always been theirs.
The whole reason I started the conversation with my Fateh friends, by the way, was that I had just gotten back from Israel and was more than slightly confused by all the Palestinian houses with stars of David. I think the first few I saw were when I went to look at Deir Yassin and was wondering if I had found it or not because of the stars of David on the buildings. I also even wondered if maybe Israel had later had them carved with stars of David as if to deny they were ever Arab houses?? But then elsewhere I saw more, and more, and more houses with the star of David motif. I kept thinking, well the Jewish presence in Palestine 200-300 years ago when these houses were built was pretty much limited to Jerusalem, so why do all these obviously Arab stone houses have stars of David?" So I just figured it was a very old cultural motif that had been repeated from ancient times, just an aesthetic design with no particular religious meaning intended by those who built the houses. I still think that is the case. I don't think the people of Deir Yassin were Marranos like Tsvi Misinai seems to. And I doubt there are very many Palestinians whose Jewish roots remain within living memory, even though it is pretty clear that conversion has been a gradual process, and it didn't all happen in the 7th century! But Palestinians have long historical memories, and some obviously do remember. Tsvi Misinai found quite a few! See the videos I posted, they are fascinating. And truly I believe he is right that many Palestinians, aware of their own culture and cultural elements that are specific to Palestine, have the sense to know they are descended from ancient Jews even if they don't remember when the conversion happened. I bet Tsvi Misinai is right, about half of Palestinians know this intuitively.
Just as I had known, it just makes sense, that the Jewish people did not just go extinct in that land, but rather assimilated with everything else going on there throughout history, so it wasn't that surprising, actually. I think it is Zionists who are going to have the hardest time with this. And I so love to see Zionists at a loss for words.
And by the way I am sure the same genetic studies have been done on Egyptians, Copts included, because people have long been interested in ancient Egyptians' connection with sub-Saharan Africa, Crete, etc. This subject is called "archaeogenetics" or "genetic history" and it is really interesting and "hot" right now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history
If you are interested you can send in a cheek swab and about $100 bucks to any one of several different research groups and find out all sorts of interesting info about your own history.
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Hossfly
ZIONIST
I did send in a cheek swab and all they could tell me was that I seemed to be related to Bloodrock. Dammit!
What is amusing is that Amity spams and spams about this because we know that she is trying to convince her audience wherever she posts that her friends should be allowed to swarm into Israel from all over the world so that the end result would be that they would be the ones governing the land and not the Jews. Meanwhile, as all can see, she cannot come up with a reputable scientific journal which discusses this all-so-important finding nor can she find any information on a conference attended by top geneticists from all over the world discussing this. I think we can take bets as to how many times a day we think she will spam this.
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