Zone1 Generation Juicebox: How 30-Year Olds Became Atheist Leftist Basket Cases.

[Meriweather]

Not sure how daycare is causing atheism, exactly, but okay.

The OP outlined several thoughts that included several issues--not just atheism.

 

[JoeB131]

1. Nobody is worshipping graven images. Those statues you see in church are reminders. This is more of a complaint of non-Catholics. People who attended Catholic schools generally understand this.

Uh, sorry, that's a lame excuse. If you are putting a statue in a church and telling people to pray to that saint and put money in that saint's box, how is that NOT a graven image?

2. You presume to know what is best when you tell God how to answer your prayers, as in praying that someone lives, but you don't know the whole picture or the whole plan.

You know, a Nun said something similar at my Mom's funeral. (My mom was a teacher at the Catholic School I went to and worked with this gnarly old hag!) She's lucky I didn't punch her out.

Your whole assumption is that your God has a reason for inflicting horrific suffering on mankind... and frankly, I can't see a God who lets people suffer and dares to call himself "Good".

3. If you discarded God out of college, then you replaced Him with another god, one which is necessarily inferior. So what is your god now? Everyone has gods.

Nope, no Gods... just getting by one day to the next.

 

[JoeB131]

The OP outlined several thoughts that included several issues--not just atheism.

But it's clear he thinks Atheism is at the root of it.

 

[Mashmont]

why is parenting any different now that say 100 years ago?

something a lot of us have in common Joe.

many 'recovering Catholics' simply choose to come to terms with by separating religion and faith as being mutually exclusive......

~S~

I can tell you how parenting in the 1990s differs from that of the 1950s and 60s. Back then parents had more kids, so they didn't have time to coddle and hyperfocus on one or two. Secondly, 50 and 60 years ago was before society decided we had to be more in touch with feelings and not discipline and be more wimpy and soft-spined. We are no longer allowed to call a spade a spade. If you notice, parents in former times never questioned or blamed themselves if their kids screwed up. But these parents of the Y generation are always handwringing and self-questioning. The kids are calling the shots.

"Recovering Catholic" generally means someone who couldn't follow the rules, which can be rather tough for those who aren't committed. It's all a matter of deciding you're going to do the right thing. Many aren't up to that. They want to sleep around or fornicate or masturbate or marry a divorcee, or get drunk or high, or sleep in on Sunday mornings instead of going to Mass.

 

[Mashmont]

Uh, sorry, that's a lame excuse. If you are putting a statue in a church and telling people to pray to that saint and put money in that saint's box, how is that NOT a graven image?

Again, if you attended Catholic school like you claim, you know this. We can pray to saints to ask for intercession with God. I've never seen a 'money box' except where the votive candles are, and that's to pay for the candles. Nobody is worshipping a saint, much less worshipping a statue.

You know, a Nun said something similar at my Mom's funeral. (My mom was a teacher at the Catholic School I went to and worked with this gnarly old hag!) She's lucky I didn't punch her out.

Your whole assumption is that your God has a reason for inflicting horrific suffering on mankind... and frankly, I can't see a God who lets people suffer and dares to call himself "Good".

View attachment 678999


Nope, no Gods... just getting by one day to the next.

I always find it comical that people presume to have the intelligence to know the big overall plan. Here we have God who created a near-infinitely large universe while mankind isn't even capable of traveling to the nearest planet, and yet we think we know everything.

And yes, self-denial and suffering are good. Just like Saint Mother Teresa said. They make people more humble better servants of others. They takes us out of our own selfishness. You act like you've never heard this. It makes me doubt you ever attended Catholic school.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The OP outlined several thoughts that included several issues--not just atheism.

Nice shell game. So can we talk about one of them? Is that okay? If we talk about a different issue, will you use this same line?

 

[Mashmont]

I started teaching in 1993, so I feel like I had a front row seat for the cultural and societal disaster that was Helicopter Parenting.

I don't agree with everything you typed here, but for the most part you are 100% right on. Parents did not allow children to have the vital freedom they NEED to take risks, figure rewards and consequences--grow strong. "Sheltered" doesn't begin to describe what these children encountered. They were protected not only from dangers, but from disappointments.

But as we know, life just doesn't work like that. A whole generations of parents forgot that the purpose of raising children is NOT to engineer a perfect life for them, but to prepare them for the world as it is. As we all see, we have too many adults wholly unprepared for this. It's almost a catastrophe at the college level; certainly a crisis. The counseling centers are overwhelmed. The kids can't handle anything.

Parents were a lot less hands-on in former years and that's better for kids, to learn and figure things out for themselves. Parents are there for guidance, but not to handle every little detail for kids. It's like you said, it makes them incapable of being adults.

 

[Meriweather]

But it's clear he thinks Atheism is at the root of it.

The root of atheism is a desire not to be bothered with God or the ways of God.

I believe we are probably close in age, and while no two schools are alike your descriptions of "whacks!" and nuns who cannot answer those simple questions about babies killed in the flood, graven images, etc. sound like made-up stereotypes. Even more unbelievable is in your twelve years of Catholic education, no one explained these issues differently. Further, I know I have explained them to you but you still hold fast to God drowning babies and Catholics worshiping graven images.

You taught yourself what you wanted to hear to have what you consider great reasons to walk away from the family faith. No one needs such facile reasons. "I don't want to be bothered with God" suffices.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Parents were a lot less hands-on in former years and that's better for kids, to learn and figure things out for themselves. Parents are there for guidance, but not to handle every little detail for kids. It's like you said, it makes them incapable of being adults.

When you step aside and let kids figure things out for themselves, they become atheists.

 

[JoeB131]

I can tell you how parenting in the 1990s differs from that of the 1950s and 60s. Back then parents had more kids, so they didn't have time to coddle and hyperfocus on one or two. Secondly, 50 and 60 years ago was before society decided we had to be more in touch with feelings and not discipline and be more wimpy and soft-spined. We are no longer allowed to call a spade a spade. If you notice, parents in former times never questioned or blamed themselves if their kids screwed up. But these parents of the Y generation are always handwringing and self-questioning. The kids are calling the shots.

Again, why is this a bad thing, necessarily? Every generation thinks that they had it so rough and these new generations are so soft.

My nieces and nephews were brought up in the 1990's... Three of them have masters degrees. Two others have bachelor degrees. I compare that to my generation, where I was the first one to go to college and get a bachelor's degree. But I recognize, a kid couldn't do what I did, pay for it by joining the National Guard and getting minimum wage jobs. College costs too much now to do that.

"Recovering Catholic" generally means someone who couldn't follow the rules, which can be rather tough for those who aren't committed. It's all a matter of deciding you're going to do the right thing. Many aren't up to that. They want to sleep around or fornicate or masturbate or marry a divorcee, or get drunk or high, or sleep in on Sunday mornings instead of going to Mass.

You talk about that like it's a bad thing.

I can think of 1000 activities that are more useful than going to Mass.

The rules aren't really the problem. More than one friend has described me as an "Atheist with Catholic values". (Heck, I only recently changed my mind on the abortion issue).

The problem is that the Church is claiming a moral superiority it doesn't have.

I've never tortured a heretic, started a crusade, collaborated with the Nazis, abused an altar boy, burned a witch at the stake or any of the other things the Catholic Church has done over the last 2000 years. In fact, I'd call most of my sin petty and really only effect me. They really don't have the moral authority to preach to me.

Now, I am going to just hit on one point, that a kid in my Grammar School drew a swastika once, and the gnarly old hag in a habit (the same one I mentioned earlier, in fact), stood him up in front of the whole classroom and humiliated him.


Imagine my shock when I got to college and found out how in bed with the Nazis Pius XII and the Church were.

 

[JoeB131]

The root of atheism is a desire not to be bothered with God or the ways of God.

I believe we are probably close in age, and while no two schools are alike your descriptions of "whacks!" and nuns who cannot answer those simple questions about babies killed in the flood, graven images, etc. sound like made-up stereotypes. Even more unbelievable is in your twelve years of Catholic education, no one explained these issues differently. Further, I know I have explained them to you but you still hold fast to God drowning babies and Catholics worshiping graven images.

You taught yourself what you wanted to hear to have what you consider great reasons to walk away from the family faith. No one needs such facile reasons. "I don't want to be bothered with God" suffices.

Actually, the nuns were morons in general. Now maybe my school got the really stupid nuns..

Sorry, every story I've told is true... those things all happened. Maybe I embroider a bit for comic effect, but only to make the absurdity of the situation seem more apparent.



As far as no one explaining them differently, um... yeah, if the first time you get whacked over the writes with a pointer by a psychotic lesbian in a habit, it's not like you are going to ask those questions openly again.

When I got to High School, the Brothers (who were slightly smarter than the nuns!) did try to give more nuanced failed explanations. Like claiming that the Great Flood was only in Mesopotamia (but then not being able to explain how the Ark got to the Caucasus mountains.)

 

[Mashmont]

Again, why is this a bad thing, necessarily? Every generation thinks that they had it so rough and these new generations are so soft.

My nieces and nephews were brought up in the 1990's... Three of them have masters degrees. Two others have bachelor degrees. I compare that to my generation, where I was the first one to go to college and get a bachelor's degree. But I recognize, a kid couldn't do what I did, pay for it by joining the National Guard and getting minimum wage jobs. College costs too much now to do that.

I never said kids weren't educated. I said they were miserable and couldn't seem to manage relationships in many cases.

You talk about that like it's a bad thing.

I can think of 1000 activities that are more useful than going to Mass.

The rules aren't really the problem. More than one friend has described me as an "Atheist with Catholic values". (Heck, I only recently changed my mind on the abortion issue).

The problem is that the Church is claiming a moral superiority it doesn't have.

I've never tortured a heretic, started a crusade, collaborated with the Nazis, abused an altar boy, burned a witch at the stake or any of the other things the Catholic Church has done over the last 2000 years. In fact, I'd call most of my sin petty and really only effect me. They really don't have the moral authority to preach to me.

Now, I am going to just hit on one point, that a kid in my Grammar School drew a swastika once, and the gnarly old hag in a habit (the same one I mentioned earlier, in fact), stood him up in front of the whole classroom and humiliated him.


Imagine my shock when I got to college and found out how in bed with the Nazis Pius XII and the Church were.

View attachment 679004

First off, it's a total lie about Pius supporting the Nazis. That's been repeatedly debunked. Secondly, even if he had, you don't have to look far to find fallible human beings in any organization including the Catholic Church. It's the teaching of Jesus that is perfect, and that is something you cannot dispute, and I presume that's why you don't try.

 

[Mashmont]

If kids become atheist when they "figured things out for themselves", why were there fewer atheists 50 years ago when kids were raised to figure things out for themselves?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I never said kids weren't educated. I said they were miserable and couldn't seem to manage relationships in many cases.

First off, it's a total lie about Pius supporting the Nazis. That's been repeatedly debunked. Secondly, even if he had, you don't have to look far to find fallible human beings in any organization including the Catholic Church. It's the teaching of Jesus that is perfect, and that is something you cannot dispute, and I presume that's why you don't try.

Right, he just privately accepted the Holocaust to preserve the Catholic Church. Wait, that actually was pretty helpful.

 

[Mashmont]

Words never uttered:
" Shortly after I started attending Mass regularly again, I got hooked on drugs and alcohol and became estranged from family members, and became very depressed."

 

[JoeB131]

I never said kids weren't educated. I said they were miserable and couldn't seem to manage relationships in many cases.

Do you have anything to quantify that? I see far more miserable old people than young people.

First off, it's a total lie about Pius supporting the Nazis. That's been repeatedly debunked. Secondly, even if he had, you don't have to look far to find fallible human beings in any organization including the Catholic Church. It's the teaching of Jesus that is perfect, and that is something you cannot dispute, and I presume that's why you don't try.

Uh, Pius was in with the Nazis, and the pope is supposed to be "infallible", remember.

The Vatican supported the Axis because the atheistic Soviets scared them more. When Mussolini and then Hitler guaranteed the church's privileges, he was all in. Even after the war, the Church provided "Ratlines" for Nazi criminals to escape Europe.

Newly Unsealed Vatican Archives Lay Out Evidence of Pope Pius XII's Knowledge of the Holocaust

The Catholic Church's actions during World War II have long been a matter of historical debate

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[JoeB131]

If kids become atheist when they "figured things out for themselves", why were there fewer atheists 50 years ago when kids were raised to figure things out for themselves?

More access to information?

Heck, I wish I had the access to critical thinking websites in the 1980's that we have now! Then kicking Catholicism to the Curb wouldn't have been NEARLY as hard for me as it was.

 

[Mashmont]

More access to information?

Heck, I wish I had the access to critical thinking websites in the 1980's that we have now! Then kicking Catholicism to the Curb wouldn't have been NEARLY as hard for me as it was.

So exactly which teaching of Jesus Christ did you disagree with?

 

[Mashmont]

Do you have anything to quantify that? I see far more miserable old people than young people.



Uh, Pius was in with the Nazis, and the pope is supposed to be "infallible", remember.

The Vatican supported the Axis because the atheistic Soviets scared them more. When Mussolini and then Hitler guaranteed the church's privileges, he was all in. Even after the war, the Church provided "Ratlines" for Nazi criminals to escape Europe.

Newly Unsealed Vatican Archives Lay Out Evidence of Pope Pius XII's Knowledge of the Holocaust

The Catholic Church's actions during World War II have long been a matter of historical debate

www.smithsonianmag.com

Infallibility is applicable only in matters of faith and morals. Francis talks about climate change. That's his personal opinion. As a Catholic, I don't have to believe it.

12 alleged years of Catholic School, and you didn't know this? I am getting highly skeptical of your claim. You seem to even know the basics of Catholic belief.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I can tell you how parenting in the 1990s differs from that of the 1950s and 60s. Back then parents had more kids, so they didn't have time to coddle and hyperfocus on one or two. Secondly, 50 and 60 years ago was before society decided we had to be more in touch with feelings and not discipline and be more wimpy and soft-spined. We are no longer allowed to call a spade a spade. If you notice, parents in former times never questioned or blamed themselves if their kids screwed up. But these parents of the Y generation are always handwringing and self-questioning. The kids are calling the shots.

"Recovering Catholic" generally means someone who couldn't follow the rules, which can be rather tough for those who aren't committed. It's all a matter of deciding you're going to do the right thing. Many aren't up to that. They want to sleep around or fornicate or masturbate or marry a divorcee, or get drunk or high, or sleep in on Sunday mornings instead of going to Mass.

Do you sit in a chair on your porch and shout at the kids to get off your lawn? Are you for real or trolling this board?