Gay marriage vs. pulygamy

[WinterBorn]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

It has not been tried in a society where women are equal. Which has been my point.

I think that is because it is inherently not equal.

The only reason it has been inherently not equal is that the people entered the marriage on unequal terms.

Would a woman with two husbands be a loss of equality for the two men?

 

[WinterBorn]

Isn't adding more people making the marriage unequal? If you have 3 wives, the marriage is no longer a 50/50 split. While the wives are dependent on you as only husband, you can lose one and still have two. I don't de how this doesn't lead to inequality in the relationship.

Isn't that dependent on the nature of the relationship?

You seem to be making assumptions about how a polygamous marriage must function that don't make sense to me. Why must it be one husband and multiple wives? Why must the wives be dependent on the husband? Why can't the husband and other wives be dependent on one wife? Why can't it be multiple husbands and one wife, or multiples of each?

I will agree that polygamous marriages would require a whole lot of changes and additions to current marriage law. I can also agree that it would lead to many problems as people either fail to anticipate certain situations or assume that the rules for all situations are already settled. The fact that it would be a complex issue doesn't automatically make it one to ignore, however.

The example could have been one wife and 3 husbands. My point remains the same.

And in that case, the decisions are discussed, as we do in a standard marriage, and a consensus is reached.

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

 

[Brain357]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

It has not been tried in a society where women are equal. Which has been my point.

I think that is because it is inherently not equal.

The only reason it has been inherently not equal is that the people entered the marriage on unequal terms.

Would a woman with two husbands be a loss of equality for the two men?

Yes

 

[WinterBorn]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

It has not been tried in a society where women are equal. Which has been my point.

I think that is because it is inherently not equal.

The only reason it has been inherently not equal is that the people entered the marriage on unequal terms.

Would a woman with two husbands be a loss of equality for the two men?

Yes

How? If the people in the relationship understand what they have going in, and everyone agrees to it, how is it unequal?

Or what about 1 straight on one gender and 2 bisexuals of the other gender? Everyone is attached to everyone.

Your prejudices are not reasons.

 

[Brain357]

Isn't adding more people making the marriage unequal? If you have 3 wives, the marriage is no longer a 50/50 split. While the wives are dependent on you as only husband, you can lose one and still have two. I don't de how this doesn't lead to inequality in the relationship.

Isn't that dependent on the nature of the relationship?

You seem to be making assumptions about how a polygamous marriage must function that don't make sense to me. Why must it be one husband and multiple wives? Why must the wives be dependent on the husband? Why can't the husband and other wives be dependent on one wife? Why can't it be multiple husbands and one wife, or multiples of each?

I will agree that polygamous marriages would require a whole lot of changes and additions to current marriage law. I can also agree that it would lead to many problems as people either fail to anticipate certain situations or assume that the rules for all situations are already settled. The fact that it would be a complex issue doesn't automatically make it one to ignore, however.

The example could have been one wife and 3 husbands. My point remains the same.

And in that case, the decisions are discussed, as we do in a standard marriage, and a consensus is reached.

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

 

[Brain357]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

It has not been tried in a society where women are equal. Which has been my point.

I think that is because it is inherently not equal.

The only reason it has been inherently not equal is that the people entered the marriage on unequal terms.

Would a woman with two husbands be a loss of equality for the two men?

Yes

How? If the people in the relationship understand what they have going in, and everyone agrees to it, how is it unequal?

Or what about 1 straight on one gender and 2 bisexuals of the other gender? Everyone is attached to everyone.

Your prejudices are not reasons.

Are they all group married? All this gets rather confusing.

 

[WinterBorn]

Isn't that dependent on the nature of the relationship?

You seem to be making assumptions about how a polygamous marriage must function that don't make sense to me. Why must it be one husband and multiple wives? Why must the wives be dependent on the husband? Why can't the husband and other wives be dependent on one wife? Why can't it be multiple husbands and one wife, or multiples of each?

I will agree that polygamous marriages would require a whole lot of changes and additions to current marriage law. I can also agree that it would lead to many problems as people either fail to anticipate certain situations or assume that the rules for all situations are already settled. The fact that it would be a complex issue doesn't automatically make it one to ignore, however.

The example could have been one wife and 3 husbands. My point remains the same.

And in that case, the decisions are discussed, as we do in a standard marriage, and a consensus is reached.

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

In societies where women are not equal in general, that is true. Luckily, that is not the case here. And your attempt to throw in underage children is laughable. "Consenting adults" was established in the first page of this thread.

 

[WinterBorn]

It has not been tried in a society where women are equal. Which has been my point.

I think that is because it is inherently not equal.

The only reason it has been inherently not equal is that the people entered the marriage on unequal terms.

Would a woman with two husbands be a loss of equality for the two men?

Yes

How? If the people in the relationship understand what they have going in, and everyone agrees to it, how is it unequal?

Or what about 1 straight on one gender and 2 bisexuals of the other gender? Everyone is attached to everyone.

Your prejudices are not reasons.

Are they all group married? All this gets rather confusing.

It would depend on what they wanted.

But you seem to be stuck on the 1 man and 2 women thing. So lets look at that. With 3 people you can get a majority vote. Something that cannot happen with two people.

In a standard marriage, it is not so.

 

[Syriusly]

It's not relevant whether people are born gay or not. Both sides are wrong to give either side of that argument any merit.

There is some relevance because if a person is NOT born gay then homosexuality can be blamed on lack of training and the absence of common sense. Nevertheless, even if someone WAS born gay they could overcome that malady with proper training and good examples.

It is not a malady any more than heterosexuality is a malady. You are not trained to be attracted to one sex or the other. What your are saying it absolute nonsense.

Nope. I'm right! You just don't like it that I'm right.

No. You are wrong and there is no way to justify what you say. At no time in my life did I sit down to decide which sex I would be attracted to. At no time did my parents or school explain to me how to be sexually attracted. There was no training involved, no application of common sense. I have never met a single person in my life who developed sexual attraction in the manner you describe - yet you claim it is universal. You are wrong, you just don't like being wrong.

There IS training involved. Or, on the flip side of that coin, a lack of training is a form of training. .

Despite the absolute lack of any evidence other than your opinion.....

 

[NYcarbineer]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

Polygamy is rampant in the Bible, you know, the infallible word of God.

 

[Papageorgio]

Isn't that dependent on the nature of the relationship?

You seem to be making assumptions about how a polygamous marriage must function that don't make sense to me. Why must it be one husband and multiple wives? Why must the wives be dependent on the husband? Why can't the husband and other wives be dependent on one wife? Why can't it be multiple husbands and one wife, or multiples of each?

I will agree that polygamous marriages would require a whole lot of changes and additions to current marriage law. I can also agree that it would lead to many problems as people either fail to anticipate certain situations or assume that the rules for all situations are already settled. The fact that it would be a complex issue doesn't automatically make it one to ignore, however.

The example could have been one wife and 3 husbands. My point remains the same.

And in that case, the decisions are discussed, as we do in a standard marriage, and a consensus is reached.

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

Wow, trot out your bigotry and ignorance for all to see.

Wasn't this a reason some said gays shouldn't be allowed to get married?

 

[Papageorgio]

It has not been tried in a society where women are equal. Which has been my point.

I think that is because it is inherently not equal.

The only reason it has been inherently not equal is that the people entered the marriage on unequal terms.

Would a woman with two husbands be a loss of equality for the two men?

Yes

How? If the people in the relationship understand what they have going in, and everyone agrees to it, how is it unequal?

Or what about 1 straight on one gender and 2 bisexuals of the other gender? Everyone is attached to everyone.

Your prejudices are not reasons.

Are they all group married? All this gets rather confusing.

I can see for you it can get confusing, this question was answered earlier, I'd suggest you go back and find the answer, if you wish to.

 

[Papageorgio]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

Polygamy is rampant in the Bible, you know, the infallible word of God.

Can you give a solid argument why it should not be allowed other than you don't like it?

 

[DriftingSand]

There is some relevance because if a person is NOT born gay then homosexuality can be blamed on lack of training and the absence of common sense. Nevertheless, even if someone WAS born gay they could overcome that malady with proper training and good examples.

It is not a malady any more than heterosexuality is a malady. You are not trained to be attracted to one sex or the other. What your are saying it absolute nonsense.

Nope. I'm right! You just don't like it that I'm right.

No. You are wrong and there is no way to justify what you say. At no time in my life did I sit down to decide which sex I would be attracted to. At no time did my parents or school explain to me how to be sexually attracted. There was no training involved, no application of common sense. I have never met a single person in my life who developed sexual attraction in the manner you describe - yet you claim it is universal. You are wrong, you just don't like being wrong.

There IS training involved. Or, on the flip side of that coin, a lack of training is a form of training. .

Despite the absolute lack of any evidence other than your opinion.....

... and simple observation (but one must have the ability to discern).

 

[Flopper]

What are examples of societies that allow polygamy where women are considered equal?

Polygamy is rampant in the Bible, you know, the infallible word of God.

Can you give a solid argument why it should not be allowed other than you don't like it?

The primary reason for not allowing polygamy is exactly what you stated, because people don't like it or find it morally objectionable. If enough people feel this way then it is a valid reason provided disallowing it does not violate constitutional rights. Many of our laws such as pubic nudity, pornography laws, drinking in public places, use of obscene language in public, selling dog meat, blue laws, and most of our zoning laws are there simply because the vast majority of people agree with them.

 

[Brain357]

The example could have been one wife and 3 husbands. My point remains the same.

And in that case, the decisions are discussed, as we do in a standard marriage, and a consensus is reached.

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

Wow, trot out your bigotry and ignorance for all to see.

Wasn't this a reason some said gays shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Have you forgotten about this guy among others? Are you suggesting it isn't disgusting?
Jailed Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs Issues Hundreds of Orders From Prison - ABC News
A raid in 2008 on the group's Yearning for Zion compound in Eldorado, Texas, brought the FLDS community into the national spotlight. Authorities found a polygamous community and pregnant child brides. Pictures of women in pastel prairie clothes with tightly braided hairstyles and stories of the controlling, male-dominated environment offered the world a glimpse into the lives of the reclusive group.

If you are going to suggest we make polygamy legal we should look at how it is for those already practicing.

 

[Syriusly]

It is not a malady any more than heterosexuality is a malady. You are not trained to be attracted to one sex or the other. What your are saying it absolute nonsense.

Nope. I'm right! You just don't like it that I'm right.

No. You are wrong and there is no way to justify what you say. At no time in my life did I sit down to decide which sex I would be attracted to. At no time did my parents or school explain to me how to be sexually attracted. There was no training involved, no application of common sense. I have never met a single person in my life who developed sexual attraction in the manner you describe - yet you claim it is universal. You are wrong, you just don't like being wrong.

There IS training involved. Or, on the flip side of that coin, a lack of training is a form of training. .

Despite the absolute lack of any evidence other than your opinion.....

... and simple observation (but one must have the ability to discern).

Well it is simple.....no matter how unsubstantiated or accurate.

 

[Papageorgio]

And in that case, the decisions are discussed, as we do in a standard marriage, and a consensus is reached.

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

Wow, trot out your bigotry and ignorance for all to see.

Wasn't this a reason some said gays shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Have you forgotten about this guy among others? Are you suggesting it isn't disgusting?
Jailed Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs Issues Hundreds of Orders From Prison - ABC News
A raid in 2008 on the group's Yearning for Zion compound in Eldorado, Texas, brought the FLDS community into the national spotlight. Authorities found a polygamous community and pregnant child brides. Pictures of women in pastel prairie clothes with tightly braided hairstyles and stories of the controlling, male-dominated environment offered the world a glimpse into the lives of the reclusive group.

If you are going to suggest we make polygamy legal we should look at how it is for those already practicing.

I never said it wasn't disgusting, we're talking consenting adults, not children. Several gays have been charged and convicted of being pedophiles. You are really a drama queen.

 

[Brain357]

I don't see how that responds to my point. It won't be an equal relationship.

It will be as equal as marriages are now. There are two people and they come to a decision. Is the man always the one who makes the decisions in a standard marriage? (if you say yes it will show you have never been married)

He seems to be the one who does in polygamy marriages. They have a pretty poor history. Cults marrying under age children. Disgusting really.

Wow, trot out your bigotry and ignorance for all to see.

Wasn't this a reason some said gays shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Have you forgotten about this guy among others? Are you suggesting it isn't disgusting?
Jailed Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs Issues Hundreds of Orders From Prison - ABC News
A raid in 2008 on the group's Yearning for Zion compound in Eldorado, Texas, brought the FLDS community into the national spotlight. Authorities found a polygamous community and pregnant child brides. Pictures of women in pastel prairie clothes with tightly braided hairstyles and stories of the controlling, male-dominated environment offered the world a glimpse into the lives of the reclusive group.

If you are going to suggest we make polygamy legal we should look at how it is for those already practicing.

I never said it wasn't disgusting, we're talking consenting adults, not children. Several gays have been charged and convicted of being pedophiles. You are really a drama queen.

Drama queen? I guess abuse of women and children is not that serious for you. It is for me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since you think relatives should also be able to marry.

 

[Brain357]

Here is another:
Escaping Polygamy Three sisters leave The Kingston Group - starcasm.net
As for alleged abuse within the group, RS describes an incident where one of the leaders was jailed for beating his daughter for leaving an arranged marriage to her uncle, his brother. Family intermarrying is a huge part of the Kingston Group’s beliefs. “They’re the ones who really believe they have to keep the bloodline pure,” a former member named Rachel told a Brown University reporter in 2008. “They think they’re directly related to Jesus Christ and they don’t want anything to taint that. As a result they have a lot of deformities and mental illnesses.”

Sounds like your kind of people papageorgio.