From Feeding the Hungry to Fueling Falsehoods: Twisting Netanyahu’s Gaza Policy After Oct 7. [Before 10/7 he helped Gazans, not to boost Hamas]

[Shusha]

Or they could try... going back to Europe where they came from...

... into a submission that will never come.

Yep. This is the zero sum that perpetuates the war. It comes from the Palestinians who will never "submit" to a sovereign Israel. This zero sum requires the ethnic cleansing or genocide of the Jewish people in Israel.

Israel isn't going anywhere. The people of Israel aren't going anywhere.

It is time for the Arabs to give up their forever war and accept Israel. And it is time for hypocritical Westerners to stop giving voice and support to Arabs wanting a forever war. There is nothing heroic or admirable about it.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I was wondering when you’d realise that about yourself.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Or they could try... going back to Europe where they came from. That would work, too.

This isn't even about defeating Hamas at this point, it's about terrorizing the Palestinian people into a submission that will never come.

Hamas is the so called Palestinians people. All the information we have tells us the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support endless war against Israel. There are no innocents among the Palestinians, just combatants and non combatants, and that's why they must be disarmed and prevented from acquiring new arms in the future.

There is no Palestinian state nor will there ever be one. The best life for the Palestinians will take place somewhere else.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep. This is the zero sum that perpetuates the war. It comes from the Palestinians who will never "submit" to a sovereign Israel. This zero sum requires the ethnic cleansing or genocide of the Jewish people in Israel.

Israel isn't going anywhere. The people of Israel aren't going anywhere.

Are you sure about that?

Israel faces record emigration as thousands leave the country | The Jerusalem Post

Israel faces record emigration, with 40,600 leaving this year, numbers the country has never seen before.

www.jpost.com

Israelis are emigrating abroad in numbers the country has never seen before – taking with them their money, education, and professional skills. The numbers behind this movement indicate long-term harm to Israel, even far from the conflict zones in the North and South.

In the first seven months of this year, 40,600 people left the country, an average of 2,200 more each month than in 2023.

The Central Bureau of Statistics has updated its method for calculating long-term departures and returns of Israelis, adopting international standards for measuring emigration and developing a new statistical method within its Demography and Census Division.

It is time for the Arabs to give up their forever war and accept Israel. And it is time for hypocritical Westerners to stop giving voice and support to Arabs wanting a forever war. There is nothing heroic or admirable about it.

Nope. You are unable to think long-term. It took the Arabs 200 years to finally drive the Crusaders out of the Holy Land, but they eventually got it done.

The problem with the West is that it now realizes that apartheid, colonialism, and genocide are wrong. The only reason why Israel has gotten away with the shit they've gotten away as long as they have is because the West felt a big sad about Hitler.

Well, Hitler died a long time ago, you just can't ring that bell anymore.

 

[JoeB131]

Hamas is the so called Palestinians people. All the information we have tells us the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support endless war against Israel. There are no innocents among the Palestinians, just combatants and non combatants, and that's why they must be disarmed and prevented from acquiring new arms in the future.

There is no Palestinian state nor will there ever be one. The best life for the Palestinians will take place somewhere else.

Yeah, you should ask the Boers in South Africa how well that kind of thinking works, long term.

Hint. It doesn't.

 

[Shusha]

Nope. You are unable to think long-term. It took the Arabs 200 years to finally drive the Crusaders out of the Holy Land, but they eventually got it done.

See. When I read that I hear you saying the “resistance” (and by that I clearly mean committing the most terrible of atrocities on Israelis, meaning Jews) will continue for as long as it takes to cleanse the territory of Jews by genocide or forced displacement.

Which is the very zero sum that I spoke of in my post. But it’s the Arabs are choosing that zero sum. Not the Israelis.

The irony, and by that I mean outright hypocrisy, of your position is that the world has most certainly NOT learned that apartheid, genocide, and colonization are wrong. You accept colonization in, as far as I can tell, all parts of the world except the tiny sliver of land where the Jewish people live. (Reminder that the Jewish people are the indigenous peoples of the territory. Not the Arabs, who are actual colonizers as a collective). Else you would demand the genocide or ethnic cleansing of vast parts of the world and a return of sovereignty to the indigenous peoples.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yeah, you should ask the Boers in South Africa how well that kind of thinking works, long term.

Hint. It doesn't.

You are always running away from the situation in the ME. If God had given you a brain, you would understand that there is no longer any diplomatic solution possible. The Palestinians will be disarmed and then they will leave, and that is the only possible solution to this conflict.

 

[JoeB131]

See. When I read that I hear you saying the “resistance” (and by that I clearly mean committing the most terrible of atrocities on Israelis, meaning Jews) will continue for as long as it takes to cleanse the territory of Jews by genocide or forced displacement.

Which is the very zero sum that I spoke of in my post. But it’s the Arabs are choosing that zero sum. Not the Israelis.

No, the Israelis are the ones stealing land, not the Palestinians.

If the Zionists stayed in Europe where they belonged, this wouldn't be an issue. But of course, their fellow Europeans couldn't stand them, either.

Maybe instead of going to places where people can't stand you and want to kill you, maybe they should try to find a place where people can almost stand you.

The irony, and by that I mean outright hypocrisy, of your position is that the world has most certainly NOT learned that apartheid, genocide, and colonization are wrong. You accept colonization in, as far as I can tell, all parts of the world except the tiny sliver of land where the Jewish people live.

Where do I accept colonization, exactly? Certainly not in the US, I'm the first one to denounce our history and call for restorative justice for Native Americans and African Americans.

(Reminder that the Jewish people are the indigenous peoples of the territory. Not the Arabs, who are actual colonizers as a collective).

Right, it's right here in the book with the Giants and the Talking Snake!!!

Nope, they are the white trash of Europe. Zionism started as a European Colonial movement. Before the 19th century, the Jews of Europe (the Ashkenazim) had no interest in returning to the Levant. They had wonderful lives in Europe, save for the odd inquisition or pogrom. Even when the Brits opened Palestine for colonization initially, the Jews of Europe were "Thanks, but no thanks". Until Austrian Mustasche Man did his thing, anyway.

That's why I always say, if America is so keen on a Jewish State, give them one of ours. If Palestine is only a "Sliver of land", we have plenty of land we aren't really using.

Else you would demand the genocide or ethnic cleansing of vast parts of the world and a return of sovereignty to the indigenous peoples.

Except no one has to genocide the Zionists, they just have to go back where they came from.

 

[JoeB131]

You are always running away from the situation in the ME. If God had given you a brain, you would understand that there is no longer any diplomatic solution possible. The Palestinians will be disarmed and then they will leave, and that is the only possible solution to this conflict.

The Jews don't want the Arabs to leave. They want a population they can easily cheat and exploit. Otherwise, they'd be reduced to cheating and exploiting each other, and what fun is that?

The reason why 10-7 happened was a bunch of Arabs were let in to be cheap labor. Whoops.

If Israel wanted peace, they could withdraw to the 1967 borders, let the PA (not Hamas) have Gaza and the West Bank, and just tighten down the border controls.

Problem solved.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No, the Israelis are the ones stealing land, not the Palestinians.

If the Zionists stayed in Europe where they belonged, this wouldn't be an issue. But of course, their fellow Europeans couldn't stand them, either.

Maybe instead of going to places where people can't stand you and want to kill you, maybe they should try to find a place where people can almost stand you.



Where do I accept colonization, exactly? Certainly not in the US, I'm the first one to denounce our history and call for restorative justice for Native Americans and African Americans.



Right, it's right here in the book with the Giants and the Talking Snake!!!

Nope, they are the white trash of Europe. Zionism started as a European Colonial movement. Before the 19th century, the Jews of Europe (the Ashkenazim) had no interest in returning to the Levant. They had wonderful lives in Europe, save for the odd inquisition or pogrom. Even when the Brits opened Palestine for colonization initially, the Jews of Europe were "Thanks, but no thanks". Until Austrian Mustasche Man did his thing, anyway.

That's why I always say, if America is so keen on a Jewish State, give them one of ours. If Palestine is only a "Sliver of land", we have plenty of land we aren't really using.



Except no one has to genocide the Zionists, they just have to go back where they came from.

So many posts from someone who has nothing to say except he hates Jews.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Jews don't want the Arabs to leave. They want a population they can easily cheat and exploit. Otherwise, they'd be reduced to cheating and exploiting each other, and what fun is that?

The reason why 10-7 happened was a bunch of Arabs were let in to be cheap labor. Whoops.

If Israel wanted peace, they could withdraw to the 1967 borders, let the PA (not Hamas) have Gaza and the West Bank, and just tighten down the border controls.

Problem solved.

Once again nothing to say except that you hate Jews. How empty your life must for this to be so important to you.

 

[Shusha]

If the Zionists stayed in Europe where they belonged, this wouldn't be an issue.

Where do I accept colonization, exactly? Certainly not in the US, I'm the first one to denounce our history and call for restorative justice for Native Americans and African Americans.

Never have I ever heard you say that European colonizers and their descendants living in the US (and other colonized places) must return to Europe where they came from. Nor have I heard you say it about any of the other colonized places in the world. You've only said it about the Jewish people. (And then only about one small group of Jews. I have no idea where you think the Mizrahi Jews should go. Or do they get to stay?)

I think you have said, effectively, you can't unbreak those eggs. I'm saying you can't unbreak the Israel egg either.

Right, it's right here in the book with the Giants and the Talking Snake!!!

Nope. I never use a religious basis for any of my arguments, despite my faith. Its right there in the dirt when you dig, in the monuments, in the inscriptions, in the buildings.

Zionism started as a European Colonial movement.

Zionism, as in a return to Zion, started with the first Diaspora and has been recorded history in prayers and scripture for more than a thousand years.

 

[Shusha]

If Israel wanted peace, they could withdraw to the 1967 borders, let the PA (not Hamas) have Gaza and the West Bank, and just tighten down the border controls.

Problem solved.

Arab Palestinian self-government has been a reality for 25/35 years. Never has it brought peace. For the reasons you pointed out in previous posts. Arabs will never "submit" and will fight forever until all of the Jews leave.

 

[JoeB131]

So many posts from someone who has nothing to say except he hates Jews.

Duly noted that you can't refute the points.

The Zionists are like abused children who have gotten big enough to abuse someone else. It will not end well for them.

Once again nothing to say except that you hate Jews. How empty your life must for this to be so important to you.

Guy we get that you can't refute the point.

 

[JoeB131]

Never have I ever heard you say that European colonizers and their descendants living in the US (and other colonized places) must return to Europe where they came from. Nor have I heard you say it about any of the other colonized places in the world. You've only said it about the Jewish people. (And then only about one small group of Jews. I have no idea where you think the Mizrahi Jews should go. Or do they get to stay?)

To begin with, the Ashkenazim are the primary issue here. They are the colonizers. The small group of Mizrahi Jews lived relatively peacefully alongside the Arabs under the Ottomans and their predecessors.

I think you have said, effectively, you can't unbreak those eggs. I'm saying you can't unbreak the Israel egg either.

Sure you can. They haven't been there that long, and they are an easily removable group. Or they can learn to live there like the Boers have learned to live in post-Apartheid South Africa. Some will leave, others will just have to learn to live with equality.

Nope. I never use a religious basis for any of my arguments, despite my faith. Its right there in the dirt when you dig, in the monuments, in the inscriptions, in the buildings.

You'll find just as much evidence for other civilizations, that's not really an argument.

Zionism, as in a return to Zion, started with the first Diaspora and has been recorded history in prayers and scripture for more than a thousand years.

Nope. If it had, it would have happened a long time ago. No one was really interested in uprooting their lives until Hitler uprooted them first. So let's give Israel what it is. It's the world's "Pity ****".

Arab Palestinian self-government has been a reality for 25/35 years. Never has it brought peace. For the reasons you pointed out in previous posts. Arabs will never "submit" and will fight forever until all of the Jews leave.

Then they better get packing.

Or learn to live with the Arabs.

Of course, they could try a fair division of the land, that might work.

 

[Shusha]

To begin with, the Ashkenazim are the primary issue here. They are the colonizers. The small group of Mizrahi Jews lived relatively peacefully alongside the Arabs under the Ottomans and their predecessors.

You are delusional if you think that five million Jewish people are just going to pack up and abandon Israel and the rest of the Jewish people. De. Lus. Ion. Al.

Which means your are calling for the forced displacement of five million people based on their race and their ethnicity. You are calling for either the direct forced displacement or for the "resistance" to make it so uncomfortable to live there that they will leave. Both of these things are illegal and immoral. I find such a position reprehensible.

My position, on the other hand, is legally and morally sound and consistent. Genocide and ethnic cleansing and any sort of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, nationality, religion is wrong.

Some will leave, others will just have to learn to live with equality.

Who is going to teach this concept to the Arabs? Because they don't seem to have picked up on it.

You'll find just as much evidence for other civilizations, that's not really an argument.

There are no surviving pre-conquest indigenous ethnic groups, other than the Jewish people. Again, I am consistent in my position. ANY ethnic (or national) group which originates in a territory has the right self-determination in that territory. Partial diaspora does not remove the right of the collective to their indigenous heritage. I apply this equally to all ethnic groups in all places.

The issue that I have with your position is that you apply your "rules" only to Jews. You do not apply the idea of indigeneity equally; nor, since you consider Jews to be colonizers, do you apply the idea of "colonizers must return home" equally.

Of course, they could try a fair division of the land, that might work.

Fair as in ...?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Duly noted that you can't refute the points.

The Zionists are like abused children who have gotten big enough to abuse someone else. It will not end well for them.



Guy we get that you can't refute the point.

You make no points. You just drool out your hatred for Jews. Pre 1967 Israel was under constant attack from the Arabs, culminating in the 1967 and 1973 wars, so only an ignorant half wit or brainless bigot would suggest turning the territories over to the Palestinian gangs would bring peace.

 

[JoeB131]

You are delusional if you think that five million Jewish people are just going to pack up and abandon Israel and the rest of the Jewish people. De. Lus. Ion. Al.

Which means your are calling for the forced displacement of five million people based on their race and their ethnicity. You are calling for either the direct forced displacement or for the "resistance" to make it so uncomfortable to live there that they will leave. Both of these things are illegal and immoral. I find such a position reprehensible.

My position, on the other hand, is legally and morally sound and consistent. Genocide and ethnic cleansing and any sort of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, nationality, religion is wrong.

Um, no, guy, you want to ethnically cleanse the Arabs, who are the indigenous people.

Who is going to teach this concept to the Arabs? Because they don't seem to have picked up on it.

Why should they? it's their land.

There are no surviving pre-conquest indigenous ethnic groups, other than the Jewish people. Again, I am consistent in my position. ANY ethnic (or national) group which originates in a territory has the right self-determination in that territory. Partial diaspora does not remove the right of the collective to their indigenous heritage. I apply this equally to all ethnic groups in all places.

Uh, guy, get bent. Even if you read the Big Book of Bronze Age Fairy Tales, the Jews were never the sole inhabitants. In addition to the 10 Northern Tribes (who broke away after Solomon, if they were ever in on the deal) you have the Moabites, Ammonites, Philistines, Amelekites (who got genocided several times), Aramites, Edomites, etc.

The issue that I have with your position is that you apply your "rules" only to Jews. You do not apply the idea of indigeneity equally; nor, since you consider Jews to be colonizers, do you apply the idea of "colonizers must return home" equally.

Yes the Jews are colonizers.

Every Zionist leader can trace his ancestry back to Europe.

Now, the difference between that and the United States is that Americans have been here long enough to be a mixture. I happen to be one-eighth Cherokee on my mom's side, but my dad's side is fresh off the boat from Germany. My wife is fresh off the plane from China. So there's no real way to score "indigeneity" in the US, really. Do I go back to Germany for half the year?

On the other hand, the Zionist Squatters are separate and distinct from the Arabs, who've been reduced to second-class citizenship in their own home.

You make no points. You just drool out your hatred for Jews. Pre 1967 Israel was under constant attack from the Arabs, culminating in the 1967 and 1973 wars, so only an ignorant half wit or brainless bigot would suggest turning the territories over to the Palestinian gangs would bring peace.

Uh, the Jews attacked first in 1967. And they blew up the USS Liberty.

I could also throw in their many incursions into Lebanon, their attack on the reactor in Iraq in 1982, their recent attack on Yemen, their attack on Iran... well, the list goes on. "Cannot work and play well with others" would be an understatement.

 

[log cabin republican]

It's hilarious how Pastelli/Sayaras/FDR_Reagan/etc. makes a thread, and then his socks come in to flood it.

Too funny!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Um, no, guy, you want to ethnically cleanse the Arabs, who are the indigenous people.



Why should they? it's their land.



Uh, guy, get bent. Even if you read the Big Book of Bronze Age Fairy Tales, the Jews were never the sole inhabitants. In addition to the 10 Northern Tribes (who broke away after Solomon, if they were ever in on the deal) you have the Moabites, Ammonites, Philistines, Amelekites (who got genocided several times), Aramites, Edomites, etc.




Yes the Jews are colonizers.

Every Zionist leader can trace his ancestry back to Europe.

Now, the difference between that and the United States is that Americans have been here long enough to be a mixture. I happen to be one-eighth Cherokee on my mom's side, but my dad's side is fresh off the boat from Germany. My wife is fresh off the plane from China. So there's no real way to score "indigeneity" in the US, really. Do I go back to Germany for half the year?

On the other hand, the Zionist Squatters are separate and distinct from the Arabs, who've been reduced to second-class citizenship in their own home.



Uh, the Jews attacked first in 1967. And they blew up the USS Liberty.

I could also throw in their many incursions into Lebanon, their attack on the reactor in Iraq in 1982, their recent attack on Yemen, their attack on Iran... well, the list goes on. "Cannot work and play well with others" would be an understatement.

Again, you have nothing to say except you hate Jews.