From Australia: 141 in ICU. 140 are Vaccinated. (139 FULLY Vaccinated)

[SweetSue92]

Oh I see. So you propped up the story when you thought the numbers agreed with you. Now that the ACTUAL numbers disagree with you, it’s no longer relevant.

Gotcha.

By the way, this is where Internet Debating is worse than Kindergarten. I mean it, I teach Kind as part of my duties. This is worse. We are debating a very large issue. I linked an Au Public Health official who MISSPOKE and the clowns here dance around like "You made a mistake you made a mistake" thinking that will in any way dissolve the actual issue. It does not. It means I made a mistake. The HUGE issue of "are the vaccines effective" is still out there, whether this man misspoke or I made a mistake or not.

It's to stupid and wasteful

 

[SweetSue92]

I've never seen anyone claim that they are 100% effective. I wouldn't believe that either as it's clearly not true. I don't think any vaccine is.

Still, it's clearly more effective than not.

“Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated.”

Sounds pretty effective to me!

Link here. Many links in thread where this was said exactly. I believe The Atlantic cites that this was claimed on social media as well. I'm not saying the claim was valid, but the claim was widespread

CDC said 6207 deaths from Covid vax 6/30/21 in US

You didn't read it in the link you provided...the words "death" and "hospitalization" appear nowhere in what you cited. The CDC links are as follows: What you're reading in your link and either are too idiotic to understand or purposefully misinterpreting is that in some control groups...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[OldLady]

I hope no one will blame me for being confused, when info like this is out there:

More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

According to data updated Wednesday by the Illinois Department of Public Health, 159 people in Illinois have died due to COVID-19 or complications after being fully vaccinated. That figure equates to 2.3% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said.

At least 593 fully vaccinated people have been hospitalized in Illinois, IDPH said. The state only reports breakthrough infections among those who have been hospitalized or died, following guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, IDPH said.

159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases

More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in “breakthrough” cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

www.nbcchicago.com

Gotta get that other 40% of Illinoisans vaccinated. If everyone were vaccinated that can be, the virus wouldn't be floating around in such numbers, causing fully vaccinated people to get sick or die. Measles isn't gone, either, but we only rarely have outbreaks because so many people are vaccinated. We gotta get there with Covid, fast, before we face another dominant mutation.

 

[XponentialChaos]

By the way, this is where Internet Debating is worse than Kindergarten. I mean it, I teach Kind as part of my duties. This is worse. We are debating a very large issue. I linked an Au Public Health official who MISSPOKE and the clowns here dance around like "You made a mistake you made a mistake" thinking that will in any way dissolve the actual issue. It does not. It means I made a mistake. The HUGE issue of "are the vaccines effective" is still out there, whether this man misspoke or I made a mistake or not.

It's to stupid and wasteful

If the vaccines aren't effective then why is it that,

“Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated” ?

Because that looks pretty effective to me.

You owned up to your mistake yet you haven't changed the narrative of your argument. If you're going to use data to make your argument, then you need to be prepared to use the same data when it goes against your argument for the mistake you made.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Link here. Many links in thread where this was said exactly. I believe The Atlantic cites that this was claimed on social media as well. I'm not saying the claim was valid, but the claim was widespread

CDC said 6207 deaths from Covid vax 6/30/21 in US

You didn't read it in the link you provided...the words "death" and "hospitalization" appear nowhere in what you cited. The CDC links are as follows: What you're reading in your link and either are too idiotic to understand or purposefully misinterpreting is that in some control groups...

www.usmessageboard.com

I already said that I don't believe that either. I don't think any vaccine is 100% effective.

 

[SweetSue92]

Gotta get that other 40% of Illinoisans vaccinated. If everyone were vaccinated that can be, the virus wouldn't be floating around in such numbers, causing fully vaccinated people to get sick or die. Measles isn't gone, either, but we only rarely have outbreaks because so many people are vaccinated. We gotta get there with Covid, fast, before we face another dominant mutation.

The vaccines are somewhere between a wash and a failure. The reason there are so many breakthrough infections is because they lose 40% of efficacy per MONTH.

From Israel, who vaccinated with Pfizer early and FAST. Translate from Hebrew.

נתונים ראשוניים מלאומית: סיכוי של פי 2 להידבק בקורונה - 5 חודשים אחרי החיסון

חוקרי לאומית שירותי בריאות ניתחו נתוני אמת של מבוטחיהם ומצאו כי הסיכון להידבק בקורונה עולה ככל שחולף זמן מהחיסון. לאחרונה מצאו אותם חוקרים כי רמת הנוגדנים יורדת לאחר החיסון בקצב של 40% בחודש. "הנתונים מחזקים את הצורך לדון במנה שלישית, הן מבחינת עצם נחיצותה והן מבחינת התזמון שלה", אמרו

www.ynet.co.il

 

[SweetSue92]

I already said that I don't believe that either. I don't think any vaccine is 100% effective.

Too many on "your side" did. They believed all of it, including that the vaccine would prevent infection, transmission (that one's important), and ALL severe cases. It does none of that. At best it appears to limit severe illness for a short time. That's it.

So no one has the right to demand anyone else get it. On top of that, cases EXPLODE after first shots are administered. So really, the unvaxxed have a good case to make that you all are super spreaders when those first shots start happening. For what, 6 months benefit?

 

[SweetSue92]

Gotta get that other 40% of Illinoisans vaccinated. If everyone were vaccinated that can be, the virus wouldn't be floating around in such numbers, causing fully vaccinated people to get sick or die. Measles isn't gone, either, but we only rarely have outbreaks because so many people are vaccinated. We gotta get there with Covid, fast, before we face another dominant mutation.

Also from Israel. Of the hospitalized, 58% vaccinated. That is a bigger percentage now that the general population vaccinated.

Coronavirus in Israel: What do we know about the 143 hospitalized people?

Of the 143 hospitalized patients, 58% were vaccinated, 39% were not at all, and 3% were partially vaccinated.

www.jpost.com

 

[XponentialChaos]

Too many on "your side" did. They believed all of it, including that the vaccine would prevent infection, transmission (that one's important), and ALL severe cases. It does none of that. At best it appears to limit severe illness for a short time. That's it.

Well then they're wrong. I don't know how many "too many" is, but I doubt it's very many considering that this is the first time I've heard of anyone suggesting that.

I think you're just desperately trying to redirect this thread to some low-hanging fruit.

If vaccines are not effective, then explain to me how “Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated.” You still haven't addressed this.

 

[SweetSue92]

Gotta get that other 40% of Illinoisans vaccinated. If everyone were vaccinated that can be, the virus wouldn't be floating around in such numbers, causing fully vaccinated people to get sick or die. Measles isn't gone, either, but we only rarely have outbreaks because so many people are vaccinated. We gotta get there with Covid, fast, before we face another dominant mutation.

From the UK, lest you think it's just Israel. Last two weeks, or early July at any rate. Look at pgs 18-19, hospitalizations and esp deaths, vaxxed vs unvaxxed. MANY more vaxxed dying.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

 

[OldLady]

The vaccines are somewhere between a wash and a failure. The reason there are so many breakthrough infections is because they lose 40% of efficacy per MONTH.

From Israel, who vaccinated with Pfizer early and FAST. Translate from Hebrew.

נתונים ראשוניים מלאומית: סיכוי של פי 2 להידבק בקורונה - 5 חודשים אחרי החיסון

חוקרי לאומית שירותי בריאות ניתחו נתוני אמת של מבוטחיהם ומצאו כי הסיכון להידבק בקורונה עולה ככל שחולף זמן מהחיסון. לאחרונה מצאו אותם חוקרים כי רמת הנוגדנים יורדת לאחר החיסון בקצב של 40% בחודש. "הנתונים מחזקים את הצורך לדון במנה שלישית, הן מבחינת עצם נחיצותה והן מבחינת התזמון שלה", אמרו

www.ynet.co.il

Link me some evidence of 40% less effective per month in English, please.

And read this. The vaccines are not a wash or a failure.

Worried About Breakthrough COVID Cases? Here's What To Know

Fully vaccinated Olympic athletes and members of Congress have tested positive for the virus. Should you be worried? How common are breakthrough infections, and are they rising?

www.capradio.org

You really need to stop. If you are feeding a single person's belief here that the vaccines are useless, you could end up responsible for deaths.

 

[SweetSue92]

Well then they're wrong. I don't know how many "too many" is, but I doubt it's very many considering that this is the first time I've heard of anyone suggesting that.

I think you're just desperately trying to redirect this thread to some low-hanging fruit.

If vaccines are not effective, then explain to me how “Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated.” You still haven't addressed this.

I would not expect vaccination to actually CAUSE covid. In a nation where 12% of the population is infected, if you had every patient but one in the ICU vaccinated, then you have a case where the vaccines are actually CAUSING the severe issues. Right? Some people are a little crazy with what you all call the "anti-vaxx" theories; I don't think I am. I don't think the vaccines cause covid. I don't think they do much to prevent it, either.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I would not expect vaccination to actually CAUSE covid.

I didn't suggest that either. Is that another low-hanging fruit you're trying to go after instead of addressing the point?

If vaccines are not effective, then explain to me how “Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated.” You still haven't addressed this.

 

[SweetSue92]

Link me some evidence of 40% less effective per month in English, please.

And read this. The vaccines are not a wash or a failure.

You really need to stop. If you are feeding a single person's belief here that the vaccines are useless, you could end up responsible for deaths.

I can't do that on my end. Click on the article on Google; the box should pop up that says "translate".

Truth is truth. Everyone must make the decision for themselves. I just talked to my husband about that last night. I feel confident for myself that the vaccine is NOT a good bet. For him, I feel like it's about 50-50 at best.

What I DO resent is people saying things like: the unvaccinated should be locked up, do not deserve healthcare, are causing everyone else to get Covid. THESE SHOTS DO NOT DESERVE THAT. They're not that great. That's my point.

so knock off the hyperbole.

 

[SweetSue92]

I didn't suggest that either. Is that another low-hanging fruit you're trying to go after instead of addressing the point?

If vaccines are not effective, then explain to me how “Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated.” You still haven't addressed this.

I just explained this to you. If you cannot grasp it that's not my fault

 

[OldLady]

From the UK, lest you think it's just Israel. Last two weeks, or early July at any rate. Look at pgs 18-19, hospitalizations and esp deaths, vaxxed vs unvaxxed. MANY more vaxxed dying.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

They have never promised us 100%, Sue. 2-5% will still get Covid, some of them may die, especially if they're older or have comorbidities. So with millions of vaccines, the numbers of that 2-5% is going to rise. IT IS STILL REALLY RARE. Take a look at the article I linked. It explains it.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I just explained this to you. If you cannot grasp it that's not my fault

No, you didn't. You're trying to pivot again.

If vaccines are not effective, then explain to me how “Of the 43 people in intensive care, 42 have not been vaccinated.”

Once again, that's 42 out of 43. That looks pretty damn effective to me. Do you not think 42 out of 43 is effective? Explain this. It's just simple math.

 

[SweetSue92]

Link me some evidence of 40% less effective per month in English, please.

And read this. The vaccines are not a wash or a failure.

Worried About Breakthrough COVID Cases? Here's What To Know

Fully vaccinated Olympic athletes and members of Congress have tested positive for the virus. Should you be worried? How common are breakthrough infections, and are they rising?

www.capradio.org

You really need to stop. If you are feeding a single person's belief here that the vaccines are useless, you could end up responsible for deaths.

It looks like the WSJ covered something like this but it's behind a paywall

Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine Is Less Effective Against Delta Infections but Still Prevents Serious Illness, Israel Study Suggests

The study from Israel comes as governments around the world try to check the rampant spread of the variant.

www.wsj.com

 

[OldLady]

I can't do that on my end. Click on the article on Google; the box should pop up that says "translate".

Truth is truth. Everyone must make the decision for themselves. I just talked to my husband about that last night. I feel confident for myself that the vaccine is NOT a good bet. For him, I feel like it's about 50-50 at best.

What I DO resent is people saying things like: the unvaccinated should be locked up, do not deserve healthcare, are causing everyone else to get Covid. THESE SHOTS DO NOT DESERVE THAT. They're not that great. That's my point.

so knock off the hyperbole.

I'm not the one exaggerating.

 

[SweetSue92]

They have never promised us 100%, Sue. 2-5% will still get Covid, some of them may die, especially if they're older or have comorbidities. So with millions of vaccines, the numbers of that 2-5% is going to rise. IT IS STILL REALLY RARE. Take a look at the article I linked. It explains it.

The sad thing is--and I mean this--the vaccines were most supposed to PROTECT those who are older and with comorbidities. How can they not be considered at least ineffective when they're not protecting the people they were most needing to protect, and INJURING the people who really need them least? I'm talking about young men and heart issues, young women and blood clots, etc. And all this for no prevention on transmission and at best, reduced chances for acquiring the virus.

Yeah. Not a great vaccine.