Free market principles demand that the way to impr. education is to pay teachers more

[gekaap]

If you have a shortage of people filling a given job field....

If you have too many people in the field performing at sub par....

If you cannot attract better skilled and qualified people....

The free market approach is to offer more highly skilled people a better salary than they will find elsewhere, so that they will want to do the job you are asking them. So why do so many conservatives so often complain about teachers being paid too much?

 

[Oddball]

That wold work, were there a true free market for teachers and schools...Which there isn't.

When you come across the Curt Flood of the teaching profession, give us a call.

 

[WillowTree]

If you have a shortage of people filling a given job field....

If you have too many people in the field performing at sub par....

If you cannot attract better skilled and qualified people....

The free market approach is to offer more highly skilled people a better salary than they will find elsewhere, so that they will want to do the job you are asking them. So why do so many conservatives so often complain about teachers being paid too much?

How do you account for the present dismal situation regarding the nations status in education? Teachers aren't paupers are they?

 

[gekaap]

How do you account for the present dismal situation regarding the nations status in education? Teachers aren't paupers are they?

What would the status of the medical field be if doctor's salaries were reduced to what teachers make? Probably be pretty dismal, eh?

 

[Avorysuds]

The simple answer is you have no idea what the free market would do...
Chances are though that a lot less people would be going to school in a freer market yet our country/economy would be producing a much stronger and competitive work force. “Higher Education” is having an exact opposite effect as it claims it would have delivered. Schooling cost more and jobs pay less… the fact that someone has an “education” means nothing anymore as most jobs could be learned in a few months on the job by a high school dropout.

We are soon entering a time where people are paying for a degree to do menial tasks in society and “Higher Education” will be determined by who can afford a bigger degree. The Government spends more every year and yet is always way behind… Gee, I wonder why lol.

In all it’s much bigger than what I care to explain.

 

[Avorysuds]

How do you account for the present dismal situation regarding the nations status in education? Teachers aren't paupers are they?

What would the status of the medical field be if doctor's salaries were reduced to what teachers make? Probably be pretty dismal, eh?

As you see the Government get more and more into HC you will see just that... Just like you have with Education.

 

[Mad Scientist]

If you have a shortage of people filling a given job field....

If you have too many people in the field performing at sub par....

If you cannot attract better skilled and qualified people....

The free market approach is to offer more highly skilled people a better salary than they will find elsewhere, so that they will want to do the job you are asking them. So why do so many conservatives so often complain about teachers being paid too much?

You forgot about performance testing. Americans schools suck, they don't deserve any more money until we start getting results.

How do you account for the present dismal situation regarding the nations status in education? Teachers aren't paupers are they?

What would the status of the medical field be if doctor's salaries were reduced to what teachers make? Probably be pretty dismal, eh?

Smart people wouldn't go into the medical field because it costs 250,000 American dollars thereabouts to get an MD and they would never be able to pay their tuition off.

How much does a Teacher pay to get her credential? (You haven't thought of this have you?)

My solution? Get the Government out of the student loan business for starters.

Gekaap, what European Nation are you from? I'm guessing Norway?

 

[Avorysuds]

This is what you get with people who try to fix problems from the ass end of that problem and not the root cause. "More Money" lol... And every time it fails you flip everyone off and claim "more Money!"

 

[WillowTree]

How do you account for the present dismal situation regarding the nations status in education? Teachers aren't paupers are they?

What would the status of the medical field be if doctor's salaries were reduced to what teachers make? Probably be pretty dismal, eh?

Typical libturd, you don't answer questions.. you ask more questions.. tell me libturd.. isn't comparing doctors to teachers a bit of a stretch? wise up

 

[WillowTree]

This is what you get with people who try to fix problems from the ass end of that problem and not the root cause. "More Money" lol... And every time it fails you flip everyone off and claim "more Money!"

yep,, money is rasied at the local and state levels for schools, throw all the federal tax payers money into the kittty and we're still left with a shitty education system. Hell,, in Florida they even agreed to a lottery saying it would solve all the damn problems,, not by a long shot. Again,, liberals run the late great state of californication,, they used to have the best school system in the world,, after liberals got through with it though it ain't worth crap.

 

[Oddball]

How do you account for the present dismal situation regarding the nations status in education? Teachers aren't paupers are they?

What would the status of the medical field be if doctor's salaries were reduced to what teachers make? Probably be pretty dismal, eh?

How many people graduate college with degrees in education vs. graduates in medicine, Mr. Supply-and-demand?

 

[WillowTree]

free market demand equals getting the UNIONS out of education. let the teachers compete for pay on a merit based resullts orientated system.. Kids will start to learn..

 

[gekaap]

You forgot about performance testing. Americans schools suck, they don't deserve any more money until we start getting results.

That's like demanding a child learn how to drive before they get behind the wheel for you to teach them. You're insisting on limiting the ability to improve until improvement has occurred. That's never going to get anywhere.

Smart people wouldn't go into the medical field because it costs 250,000 American dollars thereabouts to get an MD and they would never be able to pay their tuition off.

How much does a Teacher pay to get her credential? (You haven't thought of this have you?)

Actually, I have. Because "normal" requirements are at least a 4 year degree, with many states requiring a 6 year degree. While that is still less than the 8 years a doctor spends getting their M.D. the cost of that education can still be quite expensive, depending on where it is acquired.

BUT....many states have, because of their shortage of teachers, enacted "emergency" measures that allow people to obtain teaching credentials with far less education, in some cases not even a 2 year degree. What do you think this has done to the quality of teachers? It's contributed to an overall decline.

My solution? Get the Government out of the student loan business for starters.

Government loans do not affect whether a person is a competent teacher or not. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am excellent with children. I love working with kids and I enjoy teaching. Many people who have known me through past jobs where I have worked with kids, to include summer camp jobs and a fairly long career as a swimming instructor and coach, will tell you to this day that I supposedly missed my "true" calling by not going into the education field. But, had I made that choice after all, it would have been irrelevant without the financial aid options made available to me to get my education.

Gekaap, what European Nation are you from? I'm guessing Norway?

None. "Gek aap" is Dutch for "crazy monkey" but I have lived in the USA my entire life. But I did live in Texas for nearly 8 years, which probably ought to count as living abroad.

 

[gekaap]

free market demand equals getting the UNIONS out of education. let the teachers compete for pay on a merit based resullts orientated system.. Kids will start to learn..

Inasmuch as unions are businesses themselves, shouldn't a free market allow unions to exist and to operate in the best interests of their share holders (members)?

 

[Oddball]

free market demand equals getting the UNIONS out of education. let the teachers compete for pay on a merit based resullts orientated system.. Kids will start to learn..

Inasmuch as unions are businesses themselves, shouldn't a free market allow unions to exist and to operate in the best interests of their share holders (members)?

In the case of teacher's unions, the "shareholder" is the taxpayer, who never gets a seat at the negotiating table.

 

[WillowTree]

free market demand equals getting the UNIONS out of education. let the teachers compete for pay on a merit based resullts orientated system.. Kids will start to learn..

Inasmuch as unions are businesses themselves, shouldn't a free market allow unions to exist and to operate in the best interests of their share holders (members)?

Not on the taxpayers dime they shouldn't.

 

[gekaap]

Typical libturd, you don't answer questions.. you ask more questions.. tell me libturd.. isn't comparing doctors to teachers a bit of a stretch? wise up

Actually, since I posted the OP, and in it I asked questions, it's technically YOU who has answered questions with more questions. But I won't hold it against you and call you names for it. I'll just use some common sense to understand what you're getting at and be glad you've decided to participate in the discussion.

 

[gekaap]

Not on the taxpayers dime they shouldn't.

Unions operate on the "dime" of their members. Who are you to tell government employees how to spend their money?

Also, if you would limit the market to only SOME consumers, based on where those consumers work, how is that NOT an imposition on the free market?

 

[Oddball]

So, when do we get to the day of free agent teachers?

 

[gekaap]

In the case of teacher's unions, the "shareholder" is the taxpayer, who never gets a seat at the negotiating table.

In any union the shareholder is the person paying into the union. The fact that the person paying into the union is a government employee does not justify any kind of special consideration. Government employees are entitled to spend their money as they see fit, just like the rest of us.