Fracking natural gas is worse than coal for global warming

[flacaltenn]

Here's a link to infrared photos of methan gas escaping.

Steven D. Foster ~ Photographs : The Departing Landscape website: Four-fold Hydrofracking photos

That's awful! I guess it's back to coal.

Great art.. What exactly were we looking at there? Thought it was more of an inkblot psych assessment. Maybe Smilodon got confused while in the shrink chair....

 

[flacaltenn]

THIS --- is the kind of hokey homemade science that gets the eco-nauts riled up...

Seeing Methane Leaks Through an Infrared Camera

Lady says she borrowed an expensive InfraRed video cam and saw plumes "of nat gas" leaking from towers around the "fracking operation" (don't even know if it's a well site or a refining site).

Here's where it gets good.. She was not allowed to KEEP any of the photos or the video footage..

When she posted similiar footage on YouTube, so many people complained that she didn't know what she was looking at ---- that it was taken down..

I guess even Scientific American falls for this shitty science every so often..

 

[Sharson]

Dear "flacaltenn"

Your comment about me has some errors.

First, I did not "borrow" the camera you mention. As clearly stated on my website entry from four years ago, we were given a demo by the company that sells these cameras. Since it was a demo camera and not the camera that we subsequently bought, we did not get the videotape.

The facility is in Dish, Texas. Maybe you would like to Google that so you can be better informed.

I have no idea why you would make up such a thing as this:

"When she posted similiar footage on YouTube, so many people complained that she didn't know what she was looking at ---- that it was taken down.."​

That is completely false! The video is still available on my website and on my YouTube Channel along with many other videos.

Most of the infrared videos on my website are official TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality) videos.

Maybe you think it's cute to distort and falsely represent scientific data but hopefully others will find it as shocking and tragic as I do.

Sincerely,
Sharon Wilson
5th generation Texas landowner
Mineral owner
Expert horsewoman and shot

 

[flacaltenn]

Dear "flacaltenn"

Your comment about me has some errors.

First, I did not "borrow" the camera you mention. As clearly stated on my website entry from four years ago, we were given a demo by the company that sells these cameras. Since it was a demo camera and not the camera that we subsequently bought, we did not get the videotape.

The facility is in Dish, Texas. Maybe you would like to Google that so you can be better informed.

I have no idea why you would make up such a thing as this:

"When she posted similiar footage on YouTube, so many people complained that she didn't know what she was looking at ---- that it was taken down.."​

That is completely false! The video is still available on my website and on my YouTube Channel along with many other videos.

Most of the infrared videos on my website are official TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality) videos.

Maybe you think it's cute to distort and falsely represent scientific data but hopefully others will find it as shocking and tragic as I do.

Sincerely,
Sharon Wilson
5th generation Texas landowner
Mineral owner
Expert horsewoman and shot

Welcome to USMB Ms Wilson !!!

I was simply remarking about YOUR comments here on your website..

Somebody is not happy that my YouTube is back

I’ve received a few love letters since my YouTube channel was reinstated yesterday. Here is my favorite:

ikieone has posted a comment on your profile:

You know I see you have removed one video that you posted because you received so much flack about NOT knowing what you were looking at. And here is another!! A flir gasfindr camera…hmmmmm. I do believe FLIR stands for FOWARD LOOKING INFRARED RADAR! And I do know for aa fact that it picks up heat signature…hmmmmm.. the gas is produced from the depth of the earth that can range from a few hundred degrees to thermal levels, and since the gas is run through a GAS seperator BEFORE it enters into the produced WATER tanks there is NO gas in the WATER tanks you have filmed…HMMMMM….OHHHH I know that is the hot water throwing off a heat signature and venting from the vent stack.

Ut oh! EPA is in BIG trouble!!! They used their FORWARD LOOKING INFRARED camera and thought they were busting serial polluters for “numerous emissions of hazardous air pollutants” when it was just hot WATER.

You see -- one of my career specialties is the physics and actual design of specialty cameras. MOSTLY for medical applications, but I have done many photometric and low-light and infrared sensors as well.

I tend to agree with that angry love note above -- in the sense that there is nothing DEFINATIVE about an infrared camera in terms of what materials it is observing. It only knows the relative heat emission from that object.

Now REAL scientists may use those FLIR cameras to determine emission violations simply by noting WHEN and for HOW LONG the mining site is in operation.. But they really don't know the diff between water vapor and methane or any other gas.

In the hands of "interested environmentalists with an axe to grind" that might lead to conclusions not in evidence. Or -- even worse --- become viral like the "flaming faucets" videos without a solid affidavit to what folks are actually seeing.

I don't fault your enthusiasm or intent.. I myself reserve judgement on fracking pending more experience. But what I do see as an environmentalist with some science skills is complete and utter horseshit hypocrisy on "green issues"..

Do you like alternative energy Sharon? How about Geothermal electricity generation???

Sincerely,

FlaCalTenn
30 years of Science and Engineering
Several Degrees and published papers
Former spy and Silicon Valley entreprenuer
Ardent Environmentalist
Also a Great Shot

 

[Two Thumbs]

From the OP....



This sole bit of "evidence" is missing at it's link.. And I won't be looking for it because I'm not believing that "escaping methane" has a huge infrared signature unless it's on freakin' fire..

"Some methane escapes back up the well"... THat's the POINT of drilling for it dummies. It's escaping RIGHT NOW over nat gas fields that we're NOT tapping into..

I'd like to see measurements, NUMBERS, comparisons with non-fracked nat gas extraction..

All I know for sure is that switching to nat gas from coal has lowered our GHGas emissions all the way back to 1996. If we're not accounting for that properly ---- Speak up.. Present the REAL evidence and stop mumbling...

They will never present all the facts and comparisons.

Why?

B/c the drilling is done by big evul oil and somefuckingnut set a faucet on fire.

When interviewed later? The fuck admitted he knew that had been happening for decades there, long before fracking came in.

This is entirely untrue. A new study found that fracking does cause methane contamination of water.

Duke Study Links Fracking to Methane in Drinking Water | Environmental Working Group

An isotopic study of the hydrocarbons in the drinking water proves it comes from deep underground, not near the surface. This contamination could only occur after fracking.

OOOOOHHHHH

Goody


Please say methane causes cancer or creates health problems!!

Pretty Please

 

[Samson]

It is because of the increased use of natural gas, inexpensive and plentiful thanks to hydraulic fracturing, that emissions in the U.S. are at a 20 year low.

It's also the reason unemployment is around 3% in many regions of this country.

Methane emissions from such operations are nominal. If you're so concerned then go chase after the cattle industry.

If you bothered to read the link, you would understand why your last point is totally moot.

Did YOU bother to read the link?

The gas industry disputes that paper. So does Cornell geologist Lawrence Cathles, in a commentary in Climatic Change. He estimates that fugitive emissions are only 10 percent of what Howarth and Ingraffea maintain, and that shale gas would indeed be a good replacement for home heating oil and for coal used in power plants.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Fracking Would Emit Large Quantities of Greenhouse Gases: Scientific American

It releases large amounts of methane which is 25 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

There is not one ounce of proof that fracking contaminated any water tables anywhere...

In fact Range Resources was exonerated over this...

You're a f'ing moron...

Here's proof you idiot.

Duke Study Links Fracking to Methane in Drinking Water | Environmental Working Group

And this is just 1 study. I'm sure there are many more.

Did you even read your own link?

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and state environmental agencies do not regulate methane as a water contaminant
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcxpbhM0DaA]Oh Snap ! Peter Stormare - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sharson]

As you can clearly see YouTube reinstated by videos and they are all there. Just because a bunch of yahoos complain and flag a video does not mean the video is at fault.

You are confusing a regular infrared video camera and the GasFindIR cameras that are specially calibrated to ignore heat and pick up VOCs (volatile organic compounds). The camera does not tell you which VOCs are emitting or the quantity. What it tells you is that methane and VOCs are either venting or leaking from the facilities. Sometimes we take a summa canister that does quantify and speciate.

Because I am a new user, I am not able to provide any links, which puts me at a distinct disadvantage here, but below is a Q&A from TCEQ:

About the camera used
From David Greer, TCEQ:

Question: Can you describe the type video camera that was used?

Answer: The camera is a FLIR GasFind IR camera. The infrared gas-imaging camera used by Leak Surveys, Inc., consists of a modified Indigo (FLIR/Indigo Systems Corp., Goleta CA) Merlin MID camera with a nominal spectra range of 1- 5.4 micrometers.

The spectral range is limited with the use of a notch filter specifically designed for the detection of hydrocarbon infrared adsorptions in the 3-micron region. The narrow bandpass range of the filter is less than the infrared spectral adsorption of gas phase hexane. The filter notch is positioned such that alkane gases have a significant response within the bandpass range.

Question: What exactly is that “stuff” that looks like smoke?

Answer: The GasFind IR camera technology offers a unique technological advancement in pollution detection capability, and has proved to be highly effective in the detection of hydrocarbon compounds. However, the camera does not quantify, nor does the camera speciate the compounds that are detected.

 

[flacaltenn]

As you can clearly see YouTube reinstated by videos and they are all there. Just because a bunch of yahoos complain and flag a video does not mean the video is at fault.

You are confusing a regular infrared video camera and the GasFindIR cameras that are specially calibrated to ignore heat and pick up VOCs (volatile organic compounds). The camera does not tell you which VOCs are emitting or the quantity. What it tells you is that methane and VOCs are either venting or leaking from the facilities. Sometimes we take a summa canister that does quantify and speciate.

Because I am a new user, I am not able to provide any links, which puts me at a distinct disadvantage here, but below is a Q&A from TCEQ:

About the camera used
From David Greer, TCEQ:

Question: Can you describe the type video camera that was used?

Answer: The camera is a FLIR GasFind IR camera. The infrared gas-imaging camera used by Leak Surveys, Inc., consists of a modified Indigo (FLIR/Indigo Systems Corp., Goleta CA) Merlin MID camera with a nominal spectra range of 1- 5.4 micrometers.

The spectral range is limited with the use of a notch filter specifically designed for the detection of hydrocarbon infrared adsorptions in the 3-micron region. The narrow bandpass range of the filter is less than the infrared spectral adsorption of gas phase hexane. The filter notch is positioned such that alkane gases have a significant response within the bandpass range.

Question: What exactly is that “stuff” that looks like smoke?

Answer: The GasFind IR camera technology offers a unique technological advancement in pollution detection capability, and has proved to be highly effective in the detection of hydrocarbon compounds. However, the camera does not quantify, nor does the camera speciate the compounds that are detected.

Although I'm spooked by the fact that you tracked me down WITHIN an hour of my visit to your website to confront me -- I'm pleased because this is one of the most exciting things to happen on USMB in awhile.. So -- I'll assume you're NOT a stalker, or an eco-terrorist and we can chat..

Would really like you to answer that question I posed to you about Geothermal electricity production.. It would give me a better idea of your motivations here..

I DID go look at couple good sites for this GasFinder camera.. Specifically, the sales brochure here.....

http://www.alacron.com/clientuploads/directory/Cameras/FLIR/Thermacam-GasFindir-datasheet.pdf

One thing I want to you to notice is the DISTANCE at which all those demo photos were taken. The physics of this absorption measuring trick is limited by the pathlength. Note the guy crouching right in front of the valve he's inspecting. It does NOT WORK, as you wanted people to assume from a hedgerow 50 yards from the emission. (I'll not get into the physics with you here). So those pictures with arrows on your website are a bit dodgey.

The path length restriction was explained to me in a very (unfortunately) technical paper about "calibrating" such a camera here..

http://www.flir.com/uploadedFiles/Thermography_USA/Industries/OGI/2_Concentration_AWMA.pdf

But more importantly, the use of this "spectrum restricted" camera is limited to instances where you are inspecting (at close range) for leaks of known PURE gases in the alkane (nat gas) family.. That's because OTHER gases like water vapor DO have almost complete absorption bands in the same 3 micron wavelength range.. See for instance..

So the person behind the camera needs to know what they are inspecting and what the likelihood of OTHER conflicting gases being present might be.

I have no doubts that this camera has industrial uses.. I'm not sure that YOU are qualified to interpret the results. Perhaps you should take the seminar that the company offers on proper INTERPRETATION of the images.. They will correct your assertion that the camera "is designed to ignore heat" for instance.. The camera still measures the LACK OF HEAT coming thru the gases due to absorption. That's why vapor clouds show up as dark. But this also points out that the background materials must provide an adequate SOURCE of HEAT in order to even see the vapor cloud.. So there is no REAL way to absolutely calibrate HOW MUCH gas you're looking at.. ((Without using an unfiltered IR camera, sophisticated post-processing math, and a lot of hand-waving)).

Hope that you are NOT a stalker. Hope you'll answer my question about Geothermal. And I hope you'll join us on USMB on a regular basis...

 

[Smilebong]

Fracking Would Emit Large Quantities of Greenhouse Gases: Scientific American

It releases large amounts of methane which is 25 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

And Fracking destroys the environment.

People don't know what to do with me. I am generally a conservative, on social issues and financial issues, and I want small government.

But I am a whacko environmentalist.

What would you call me?

Noble, but with a lot of research and thinking to do...
There are so many contradictions and hypocrital assertions in "modern" environmentalism, you certainly should be more skeptical about hitting the bait on every one of them..

I too am a Libertarian and an ARDENT environmentalist.. I've got a career in science and engineering to analyze some of this horseshit.. And it's my favorite pasttime..

Guess what I get called eh???

Tree hugger.

 

[flacaltenn]

And Fracking destroys the environment.

People don't know what to do with me. I am generally a conservative, on social issues and financial issues, and I want small government.

But I am a whacko environmentalist.

What would you call me?

Noble, but with a lot of research and thinking to do...
There are so many contradictions and hypocrital assertions in "modern" environmentalism, you certainly should be more skeptical about hitting the bait on every one of them..

I too am a Libertarian and an ARDENT environmentalist.. I've got a career in science and engineering to analyze some of this horseshit.. And it's my favorite pasttime..

Guess what I get called eh???

Tree hugger.

Actually mostly a "dupe for the oil companies". Could be discussing clams and that will come out.. All because I don't believe growing hemp just to burn it for energy is a good idea..

 

[Smilebong]

Noble, but with a lot of research and thinking to do...
There are so many contradictions and hypocrital assertions in "modern" environmentalism, you certainly should be more skeptical about hitting the bait on every one of them..

I too am a Libertarian and an ARDENT environmentalist.. I've got a career in science and engineering to analyze some of this horseshit.. And it's my favorite pasttime..

Guess what I get called eh???

Tree hugger.

Actually mostly a "dupe for the oil companies". Could be discussing clams and that will come out.. All because I don't believe growing hemp just to burn it for energy is a good idea..

That's funny. My nephew, who was a herion addict and lived off the government dole for 5 years, is now an environmentalist. He has a computer so he is constantly posting things asking me if I support the use of hemp for all kinds of things. And because I don't, he calls me a right winger.

 

[flacaltenn]

Tree hugger.

Actually mostly a "dupe for the oil companies". Could be discussing clams and that will come out.. All because I don't believe growing hemp just to burn it for energy is a good idea..

That's funny. My nephew, who was a herion addict and lived off the government dole for 5 years, is now an environmentalist. He has a computer so he is constantly posting things asking me if I support the use of hemp for all kinds of things. And because I don't, he calls me a right winger.

I think he was on USMB last year.. Check out all the hemp threads --- you'll probably recognize him.. Funny stuff.............

 

[Mr. H.]

Care to explain or is the subject actually above your head which I believe it probably is?

You aren't worth the effort.

You mean you are lazy, close minded, and stupid.

Like the others here who have pointed out the bullshit in your ramblings?

I've come across far too many individuals such as yourself. You are a lost cause.

My time is better spent in the conferences that I moderate, teaching science and math educators the science and math of hydraulic fracturing. In four years of interacting with them, I've never met anyone like you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Fracking Would Emit Large Quantities of Greenhouse Gases: Scientific American

It releases large amounts of methane which is 25 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

We should just kill everyone, it is the only way to preserve the climate exactly as it is.

 

[flacaltenn]

Fracking Would Emit Large Quantities of Greenhouse Gases: Scientific American

It releases large amounts of methane which is 25 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

We should just kill everyone, it is the only way to preserve the climate exactly as it is.

I'm ignoring your post because I'm hysterical over your new avitar.....

 

[Sharson]

When you link to a WordPress website, it sends the site owner a notice. In the notice I saw that you insulted me in the text to your link back to this forum. Your comment was made some misinformed assumptions. I don't really care what you think but maybe there are others here who are less arrogant and more reasonable.

Would really like you to answer that question I posed to you about Geothermal electricity production.. It would give me a better idea of your motivations here..

I did not see your question. This forum is rather clunky and I am still in new user purgatory.

One thing I want to you to notice is the DISTANCE at which all those demo photos were taken. The physics of this absorption measuring trick is limited by the pathlength. Note the guy crouching right in front of the valve he's inspecting. It does NOT WORK, as you wanted people to assume from a hedgerow 50 yards from the emission. (I'll not get into the physics with you here). So those pictures with arrows on your website are a bit dodgey.

You still seem to be confused. Is that intentional? The demo camera takes video not photos. The photo shown was taken from a different vantage point to show the sources of emissions. The emission points marked on the photo showed VOC's venting/leaking in IR video taken by the state and backed up with summa canister samples several times over the years. You really can't walk into the middle of a conversation and think you know everything that has been said. That's why I suggested...aw, never mind.

The TCEQ takes video of facilities statewide from a helicopter so you might need to read up more on that camera because it certainly will take video from a distance. I have done several open records requests to obtain the TCEQ videos. Unfortunately I can not link to the video taken from the helicopter because I'm not allowed to link. Most likely you would choose to not believe it.

As I stated, I don't care what you believe but you are not the only person on this forum so I only came here to respond to your initial comment. I am extremely busy and it's doubtful that I will check back here often to argue with you. I have my own website with a conversation happening there.

 

[Mr. H.]

Blah...

 

[Samson]

Fracking Would Emit Large Quantities of Greenhouse Gases: Scientific American

It releases large amounts of methane which is 25 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

We should just kill everyone, it is the only way to preserve the climate exactly as it is.

I'm pretty sure all the decomposition would release some sort of fumes.



Perhaps the US EPA should spend several billion dollars studying your proposition before we actually implement it.