Where in the Bible does it teach that Mary was not mortal and without sin? Martin Luther is not one I look to for true teaches about God, Jesus or Mary. Mary was mortal and subject to sin and death.
Zone1 Four Beliefs of Christian Doctrine - What If Any are Taken Away?
- Thread starter jwoodie
- Start date
There's no where that claims Mary isn't mortal... and I never said she wasn't mortal. Learn to think when you read.
No, but you claimed that she was without sin. Jesus is the only one who ever walked the earth that was without sin.
Romans 3:23-24
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Mary is part of the all that have sinned. All mankind, including Mary, have fallen and are in need of the redemption through grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only one who ever was born on this earth that did no sin.
1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Nowhere in the Bible, as you claimed, does it ever teach that Mary was without sin.
Believe whatever you like... Full of Grace means there was no room for sin.
The sinlessness of Mary refers to the doctrine in which Mary, mother of Jesus chose not to sin. It is upheld by the Catholic Church, Oriental Orthodox Churches, Eastern Orthodox Churches, as well as by high church Lutherans.
- Thread starter
- #145
So Mary, unlike other humans, was born without sin? Maybe she should have been named Grace?
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
- Oct 21, 2014
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What about 'beloved'? That is also the meaning of one Hebrew root for the name Mary.
Luke 1:28, and specifically the phrase "full of grace" by which Gabriel greeted Mary, was another reference to her Immaculate Conception: "she was never …
Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Lets take a look at Luke 1:28
Luke 1:28
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Not seeing anything that mentions Mary as a sinless being. The verse is simply saying that she is favoured and blessed as being chosen to give birth to our Savior.
From the translation on Biblehub we have:
Here we read that Mary was favored with grace. Aren't we all! She was blessed with the grace of being chosen to be the mother of the Son of God. Nothing about Mary being a sinless being.
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Actually we are all born without sin thanks to the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ who atoned for original sin. It is only after we reach the age of accountability that we are capable of committing and are held accountable for sin. We are only held accountable for own sins and not for Adam and Eve's transgression.
In Luke 1:46-47 we read:
Luke 1:46-47
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Here Mary recognizes Jesus as her Savior. Why would Mary need a Savior if she was without sin.
GotQuestions.org has a good piece on "Was Mary Sinless?" Here is what it says:
"
Mary the mother of Jesus was a godly and blessed woman, but she was not without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin. Jesus “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “In him is no sin” (1 John 3:5). Nothing of the sort is ever said of Mary or anyone else. Jesus Christ is fully human, but He is also fully God (John 1:1). He is the Lamb of God, “without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19), a title and description no other person can claim.
As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin. Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule. The apostle John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10). The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”
To help bolster their teaching that Mary was sinless, the Roman Catholic Church has invented the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (formally accepted as Catholic dogma in 1854). According to this false teaching, Mary was, from her very conception in her mother’s womb, “preserved free from all stain of original sin.” That is, Mary had no sinful nature. This doctrine is neither biblical nor necessary. The virgin-born Christ Jesus was free from the stain of original sin, but it was not necessary for His mother to be—or His grandmother—or His great-grandmother, etc. How far back would we have to go to insure Jesus’ perfection, if it were necessary for Mary to be sinless?
Rather than teach that Mary was sinless, the Bible gives evidence that she was a normal person with a normal person’s need of salvation. In Mary’s praise-filled, humble prayer in Luke 1, she says, “My spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (verse 47). If she were sinless, she would not have needed a “Savior.” Mary receives a gentle rebuke from Jesus in John 2:4, which hardly seems fitting if she were sinless.
Catholicism also teaches that the reference to Mary being “highly favored” (Luke 1:28) and one who was “blessed . . . among women” (Luke 1:42) supports the view of a sinless Mary. However, neither verse makes such a claim. It is possible to be blessed and know God’s favor without being sinless. Catholic teaching also describes Mary as “full of grace,” but that phrase is found only twice in the Bible, and neither time is it in reference to Mary. Jesus is said to be “full of grace” (John 1:14), and so is Stephen (Acts 6:8).
The veneration of Mary in Catholicism and some other liturgical religious systems has led to the unbiblical claim that Mary was without sin. Other unbiblical doctrines have also cropped up around the view of a sinless Mary: the teaching that she was a perpetual virgin, that she hears and answers our prayers, that she shares in our redemption, and that she is a mediator of grace, to name a few. Those who revere a sinless Mary are being “led astray from . . . sincere and pure devotion to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:3)."
Luke 1:46-47
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Here Mary recognizes Jesus as her Savior. Why would Mary need a Savior if she was without sin.
GotQuestions.org has a good piece on "Was Mary Sinless?" Here is what it says:
"
Mary the mother of Jesus was a godly and blessed woman, but she was not without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin. Jesus “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “In him is no sin” (1 John 3:5). Nothing of the sort is ever said of Mary or anyone else. Jesus Christ is fully human, but He is also fully God (John 1:1). He is the Lamb of God, “without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19), a title and description no other person can claim.
As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin. Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule. The apostle John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10). The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”
To help bolster their teaching that Mary was sinless, the Roman Catholic Church has invented the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (formally accepted as Catholic dogma in 1854). According to this false teaching, Mary was, from her very conception in her mother’s womb, “preserved free from all stain of original sin.” That is, Mary had no sinful nature. This doctrine is neither biblical nor necessary. The virgin-born Christ Jesus was free from the stain of original sin, but it was not necessary for His mother to be—or His grandmother—or His great-grandmother, etc. How far back would we have to go to insure Jesus’ perfection, if it were necessary for Mary to be sinless?
Rather than teach that Mary was sinless, the Bible gives evidence that she was a normal person with a normal person’s need of salvation. In Mary’s praise-filled, humble prayer in Luke 1, she says, “My spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (verse 47). If she were sinless, she would not have needed a “Savior.” Mary receives a gentle rebuke from Jesus in John 2:4, which hardly seems fitting if she were sinless.
Catholicism also teaches that the reference to Mary being “highly favored” (Luke 1:28) and one who was “blessed . . . among women” (Luke 1:42) supports the view of a sinless Mary. However, neither verse makes such a claim. It is possible to be blessed and know God’s favor without being sinless. Catholic teaching also describes Mary as “full of grace,” but that phrase is found only twice in the Bible, and neither time is it in reference to Mary. Jesus is said to be “full of grace” (John 1:14), and so is Stephen (Acts 6:8).
The veneration of Mary in Catholicism and some other liturgical religious systems has led to the unbiblical claim that Mary was without sin. Other unbiblical doctrines have also cropped up around the view of a sinless Mary: the teaching that she was a perpetual virgin, that she hears and answers our prayers, that she shares in our redemption, and that she is a mediator of grace, to name a few. Those who revere a sinless Mary are being “led astray from . . . sincere and pure devotion to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:3)."
GMCGeneral
Diamond Member
No Mary was not born without sin. Only Jesus was, being fully G-d and fully man, He alone is the one to bridge the gap. Not Mary, not the saints, not Buddah, not Mohammed, not any religion. ONLY Jesus.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
All good questions.
Self-proclaimed Messiahs were a dime a dozen. No one remembers their names. Then one came back to prove He was who He said He was. And that He defeated death.
He wasn't recognized by some that knew Him because the Romans destroyed His body before
they hung Him on the cross. They tore chunks of skin and beard from His face. He wasn't recognized as human when He was up on the cross. He is in that scarred body today. It is why God didn't allow any of His bones to be broken. Be prepared to see what it took to pay our debt. We will join the Jews in weeping bitter tears.
Christ worked miracles as a sign, for a time. To convince. To draw people to Him. He drew thousands and thousands. And when they watched Him cure blindness, and straighten bones and raise people from the dead, they were convinced. From there it went on to faith without signs and wonders. Prepare to be blessed by God for having faith in His Son without asking for a sign to prove it.
Coming here as a human was a fulfillment of Jewish Law. Jesus is our kinsman redeemer. He had to be related to Adam to reverse the damage that Adam caused. It is why Christ's genealogy is documented in the Bible. It took one man's pure blood to remove the tainted blood that is handed down from Adam to us today. I don't know if He had XX, but He certainly knew His Father.
If you believe that God created the universes, is it such a stretch that He could, for example, modify a specific fish to accommodate Jonah? Because that is exactly what He said He did:
Jonah 1:17 the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah.
We just recently discovered how Jesus could appear and disappear at will! Dimensions!
If there is something that is perplexing in the Bible, the Bible tells us not to lean on our own understanding, because God is SO much more advanced than we can fathom. Take it by faith.
Sorry this is so long.
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There's no original sin in Judaism or Islam.
Jonah is fiction. It a comic novella for teaching that God loved even the people of Nineveh.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
And yet, Jesus verified it as actually happening, and it wasn't in reference to Nineveh. If it wasn't true, that would make Christ a liar.
Matthew 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Jesus didn't confirm it at all. He referenced the story as a teaching narrative. It was about Nineveh. Don't you know the story?
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Jesus wasn't on His way to Nineveh. And He wasn't teaching about Nineveh. It wasn't a sermon regarding Nineveh.
He used the duration of the event of Jonah to compare it to the amount of time He would be gone.
He used the duration of the event of Jonah to compare it to the amount of time He would be gone.
Why don't you read the story? Jonah was angry and sulking because God didn't destroy the people of Nineveh.
In the Book of Jonah, the prophet Jonah is commanded by God to go to Nineveh, a large Assyrian city, and prophesy that it will be overthrown in 40 days. Jonah initially tries to avoid the task, thinking that Nineveh will repent and be saved. However, he eventually obeys and goes to the city, where he delivers his message.
Here are some key events that take place in the story:
Jonah's message: Jonah's message is short and odd, with no mention of God, what the Ninevites have done wrong, or what they should do in response.
The Ninevites' response: The Ninevites believe Jonah's message and respond by fasting, putting on sackcloth, covering themselves with sackcloth, calling on God, and giving up their evil ways.
The king's response: The king of Nineveh rises from his throne, takes off his royal robes, covers himself with sackcloth, and sits in the dust.
God's response: God sees the Ninevites' repentant hearts and spares the city.
Jonah's reaction: Jonah complains to God, angry that the Lord spared the city.
The Book of Jonah's theological themes and language features suggest that it was written between 500-400 B.C.E., after the Babylonian exile.
Here are some key events that take place in the story:
Jonah's message: Jonah's message is short and odd, with no mention of God, what the Ninevites have done wrong, or what they should do in response.
The Ninevites' response: The Ninevites believe Jonah's message and respond by fasting, putting on sackcloth, covering themselves with sackcloth, calling on God, and giving up their evil ways.
The king's response: The king of Nineveh rises from his throne, takes off his royal robes, covers himself with sackcloth, and sits in the dust.
God's response: God sees the Ninevites' repentant hearts and spares the city.
Jonah's reaction: Jonah complains to God, angry that the Lord spared the city.
The Book of Jonah's theological themes and language features suggest that it was written between 500-400 B.C.E., after the Babylonian exile.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Honey, I know the story. But Jesus wasn't referencing the story, just comparing the time that Jonah spent in the leviathan to the amount of time Jesus would spend in the heart of the earth. That's all He was doing. I just don't believe Christ would make the comparison if it never really happened to begin with.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
But they do match the Bible's limitless truth:
Isaiah 52:14 But many were amazed when they saw him. His face was so disfigured he seemed hardly human, and from his appearance, one would scarcely know he was a man.
BreezeWood
VIP Member
- Oct 26, 2011
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- limitless deception.
the romans had no reason to torture jesus, its just rams way to be melodramatic against them and not the jews ... the jews chose to save barabas over jesus, who really were more barbaric - of course ram fails even further by not understanding the 1st century events are the repudiation of judaism, false commandments, hereditary idolatry et al ...
certain beliefs, liberation theology, self determination are what jesus taught - ram gona be seriously in a bad way at the gates of the everlasting.
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