Forced to deny my Christian faith to enter a Christian website? What?

[Michelle420]

emily- I'm serious. I got him/her on ignore for a reason; posting false doctrine.

Dear USMB members:

Much to my dismay I found a wonderful website
that Parture referred, and was very hopeful this was
a good way to help establish consensus on God and eradicate errors.

However, because I used terms incorrectly I got banned from that site,
accused of not being Christian and doubletalk in answering the questions wrong.

So I had to go back and deny all my faith in the Bible
and change all the answers to "not sure" in order to make sure I didn't make a mistake again
in answering those questions.

What kind of website would punish people for answering as honestly
as possible even though I may have made a mistake in explaining my views?

What kind of website would accuse people of guilty until proven innocent?

This is really sad because there is a section there on sharing about the Trinity
which I believe is the key in uniting all people in understanding
and now I cannot even post there because I have been falsely accused
of not being a believer.

Parture if you are reading this, this SADDENS me and makes
me want to renounce my faith if this is how Christians treat each other.
If I am not free to share honestly how and why I believe the Holy Trinity
is Universal but am accused for teaching this, then I ask you to prove
me a false prophet, put me on public trial, and let me be put to death
if I am speaking falsely. I have had enough of this weird behavior.

I even was honest about mentioning what websites referred
me here, and got an infraction for naming those sites that included advertising.

That site is a wonderful site content wise and I am sorry that it excludes people
based on false accusation and suspicion.

If I made mistakes I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people
first and then ask questions later? What kind of rebuke calls for that?

The Christianity I know respects natural laws of due process
as given by God, so this is contradictory with God's natural laws of justice.

If you have any comments please share,
because I am shocked and appalled that fellow Christians
would issue judgment and punishment first, even accusing a
fellow Christian of things I didn't mean the way I was accused
and was honestly trying to answer honestly.

Very strange, but I should not be surprised anymore.

No wonder people cannot stand Christians.

I feel owe an apology to all my atheist friends who warned me
Christians make no sense and contradict themselves
as hateful, judgmental unforgiving and beyond reasonable explanation!

Please tell me this can be corrected.

Otherwise I find it very hard to believe
* that because I teach forgiveness in Christ on a universal scale,
this means I am going to hell as a nonbeliever
* that because I agree with the Bible
and answered yes to those questions
that I am banned, so I had to change all my answers
to "not sure" and deny my faith in order not to make
any more mistakes by putting yes or no. This site
is forcing me to be "unsure" and has penalized
me for saying I agree with the Bible?

Sorry but this makes me not want to be Christian
if I have to fix this mess in order to prove that I am.

Maybe it's not worth the trouble.
Sorry Parture but if this is what I have to do to "prove I am Christian"
I don't think forcing people to deny agreeing with the Bible in order not to make a mistake
and punishing forgiveness is very Christian at all.

Whatever joke this is, I think it is sad.

Maybe you should read this book by Pulitzer Prize author Chris Hedges, son of a Preacher and a man who holds a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School.

THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT AND THE RISE OF AMERICAN FASCISM

Thanks but I think that website may be something else.

I found this on there about Heaven that mixes Hades that Jehovah's Witness reject as unbiblical
with Sheol that Jehovah's Witnesses teach instead. So I've never seen an explanation mix this together:

Three Heavens


Before time God decided His creation will have Three Heavens (2 Cor. 12.2)--a Paradise above (3rd Heaven), realm of fallen spirits if they fell (2nd Heaven), and our universe (1st Heaven). God also created timeless unawares called Hades or Sheol. Hades is not considered Heaven or Hell. The good side of Hades is called Paradise below or Abraham's bosom. Christians will be resurrected together (1 Thess. 4.15-17) from the good side of Hades to come before the Judgment-Seat to receive reward or loss of reward. The bad side of Hades is where the Rich Man went and the unsaved go when they die. They too will be resurrected but separated by 1000 years to the Great White Throne to be judged and cast into Hell.

-----------------

Where I think we got off on the wrong track,
the Bible scriptures cited mention the Devil the Beast and the False Prophet
thrown into the lake of fire. But those are not human souls. So we aren't even talking about the same thing
I don't think.

I don't think I can manage on that site without having each message
reviewed in advance by an admin and corrected by email before I post anything.

I would have to check with them each time and clarify we mean the same
thing before asking permission to post it so I don't cause an offense.

Otherwise the same thing will happen over and over by misinterpretations.

I also got an infraction message, for replying too generally and not responding directly.
So I probably cannot reply at all because that is how I normally talk and will keep getting infractions.

You should take the advice of Bfgrn and read that book.

Well the rightwing far right people I've talked with were never this duplicitous.

this guy really takes the cake.

I can deal with Klan, Jehovah's Witness, IDMR, prolife, one guy who wouldn't consider talking with me
until I did X Y Z, and he even admitted he knew my salvation was intact despite our disagreements.

I think this guy borders on the demons that attack priests
and get into their psyche and start messing with their minds.

they are more dangerous because they are divinely inspired
to push buttons on an unconscious level.

With the political types all their manipulations are out in the open.
They are at least PUBLIC with their hypocrisy so you can call them on it.

This guy is a unique challenge.
He actually has great gifts, like a spiritual genius,
but is completely wasting them by setting up tests and traps
to screen anyone out who can't rise above the faults.

Very interesting.

If he wants to expand his website and network globally
he is going to have to learn to work with people.

I could help him translate and interpret to connect with different groups
but I scared him to death with the idea of Universal inclusion he
may continue to reject me and try to make it my fault.

I don't think he's really ready or he would not sabotage
his own efforts and cut out people like me who would
be able to interpret, discern and help him.

Only demonic minded people try to attack and break
down people's faith for helping them on this level.

He is like a fallen angel, a misguided spirit
who does not know how to use his gifts
and doesn't know who to trust to help him with that.

I expect to fail his tests, so I gave up trying to pass.
I can try to reach out and offer help but not on his rules I can't
figure out and guess, I figured I would keep making mistakes
and so he would keep rejecting me so that game is a no win.

Next to him, Carla_Danger
all the rightwing extreme, prolife, anti-left,
raving oppressive closeminded ranters and railers
I have met seem like grown up children with louder megaphones.

This guy is too intelligent to play the simple games
and has created an elaborate maze to screen people out.

Sad for him, because with his visionary gifts he should
be drawing people in to share, not shutting people out.

This is unlike anything i have ever seen.

wish I could help but I don't think I am welcome there.

Sounds like you are dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing !

 

[Parture]

emily- I'm serious. I got him/her on ignore for a reason; posting false doctrine.

Dear USMB members:

Much to my dismay I found a wonderful website
that Parture referred, and was very hopeful this was
a good way to help establish consensus on God and eradicate errors.

However, because I used terms incorrectly I got banned from that site,
accused of not being Christian and doubletalk in answering the questions wrong.

So I had to go back and deny all my faith in the Bible
and change all the answers to "not sure" in order to make sure I didn't make a mistake again
in answering those questions.

What kind of website would punish people for answering as honestly
as possible even though I may have made a mistake in explaining my views?

What kind of website would accuse people of guilty until proven innocent?

This is really sad because there is a section there on sharing about the Trinity
which I believe is the key in uniting all people in understanding
and now I cannot even post there because I have been falsely accused
of not being a believer.

Parture if you are reading this, this SADDENS me and makes
me want to renounce my faith if this is how Christians treat each other.
If I am not free to share honestly how and why I believe the Holy Trinity
is Universal but am accused for teaching this, then I ask you to prove
me a false prophet, put me on public trial, and let me be put to death
if I am speaking falsely. I have had enough of this weird behavior.

I even was honest about mentioning what websites referred
me here, and got an infraction for naming those sites that included advertising.

That site is a wonderful site content wise and I am sorry that it excludes people
based on false accusation and suspicion.

If I made mistakes I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people
first and then ask questions later? What kind of rebuke calls for that?

The Christianity I know respects natural laws of due process
as given by God, so this is contradictory with God's natural laws of justice.

If you have any comments please share,
because I am shocked and appalled that fellow Christians
would issue judgment and punishment first, even accusing a
fellow Christian of things I didn't mean the way I was accused
and was honestly trying to answer honestly.

Very strange, but I should not be surprised anymore.

No wonder people cannot stand Christians.

I feel owe an apology to all my atheist friends who warned me
Christians make no sense and contradict themselves
as hateful, judgmental unforgiving and beyond reasonable explanation!

Please tell me this can be corrected.

Otherwise I find it very hard to believe
* that because I teach forgiveness in Christ on a universal scale,
this means I am going to hell as a nonbeliever
* that because I agree with the Bible
and answered yes to those questions
that I am banned, so I had to change all my answers
to "not sure" and deny my faith in order not to make
any more mistakes by putting yes or no. This site
is forcing me to be "unsure" and has penalized
me for saying I agree with the Bible?

Sorry but this makes me not want to be Christian
if I have to fix this mess in order to prove that I am.

Maybe it's not worth the trouble.
Sorry Parture but if this is what I have to do to "prove I am Christian"
I don't think forcing people to deny agreeing with the Bible in order not to make a mistake
and punishing forgiveness is very Christian at all.

Whatever joke this is, I think it is sad.

Maybe you should read this book by Pulitzer Prize author Chris Hedges, son of a Preacher and a man who holds a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School.

THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT AND THE RISE OF AMERICAN FASCISM

Thanks but I think that website may be something else.

I found this on there about Heaven that mixes Hades that Jehovah's Witness reject as unbiblical
with Sheol that Jehovah's Witnesses teach instead. So I've never seen an explanation mix this together:

Three Heavens


Before time God decided His creation will have Three Heavens (2 Cor. 12.2)--a Paradise above (3rd Heaven), realm of fallen spirits if they fell (2nd Heaven), and our universe (1st Heaven). God also created timeless unawares called Hades or Sheol. Hades is not considered Heaven or Hell. The good side of Hades is called Paradise below or Abraham's bosom. Christians will be resurrected together (1 Thess. 4.15-17) from the good side of Hades to come before the Judgment-Seat to receive reward or loss of reward. The bad side of Hades is where the Rich Man went and the unsaved go when they die. They too will be resurrected but separated by 1000 years to the Great White Throne to be judged and cast into Hell.

-----------------

Where I think we got off on the wrong track,
the Bible scriptures cited mention the Devil the Beast and the False Prophet
thrown into the lake of fire. But those are not human souls. So we aren't even talking about the same thing
I don't think.

I don't think I can manage on that site without having each message
reviewed in advance by an admin and corrected by email before I post anything.

I would have to check with them each time and clarify we mean the same
thing before asking permission to post it so I don't cause an offense.

Otherwise the same thing will happen over and over by misinterpretations.

I also got an infraction message, for replying too generally and not responding directly.
So I probably cannot reply at all because that is how I normally talk and will keep getting infractions.

You should take the advice of Bfgrn and read that book.

Well the rightwing far right people I've talked with were never this duplicitous.

this guy really takes the cake.

I can deal with Klan, Jehovah's Witness, IDMR, prolife, one guy who wouldn't consider talking with me
until I did X Y Z, and he even admitted he knew my salvation was intact despite our disagreements.

I think this guy borders on the demons that attack priests
and get into their psyche and start messing with their minds.

they are more dangerous because they are divinely inspired
to push buttons on an unconscious level.

With the political types all their manipulations are out in the open.
They are at least PUBLIC with their hypocrisy so you can call them on it.

This guy is a unique challenge.
He actually has great gifts, like a spiritual genius,
but is completely wasting them by setting up tests and traps
to screen anyone out who can't rise above the faults.

Very interesting.

If he wants to expand his website and network globally
he is going to have to learn to work with people.

I could help him translate and interpret to connect with different groups
but I scared him to death with the idea of Universal inclusion he
may continue to reject me and try to make it my fault.

I don't think he's really ready or he would not sabotage
his own efforts and cut out people like me who would
be able to interpret, discern and help him.

Only demonic minded people try to attack and break
down people's faith for helping them on this level.

He is like a fallen angel, a misguided spirit
who does not know how to use his gifts
and doesn't know who to trust to help him with that.

I expect to fail his tests, so I gave up trying to pass.
I can try to reach out and offer help but not on his rules I can't
figure out and guess, I figured I would keep making mistakes
and so he would keep rejecting me so that game is a no win.

Next to him, Carla_Danger
all the rightwing extreme, prolife, anti-left,
raving oppressive closeminded ranters and railers
I have met seem like grown up children with louder megaphones.

This guy is too intelligent to play the simple games
and has created an elaborate maze to screen people out.

Sad for him, because with his visionary gifts he should
be drawing people in to share, not shutting people out.

This is unlike anything i have ever seen.

wish I could help but I don't think I am welcome there.

Sounds like you are dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing !

Do you think a non-universalist or a universalist is a wolf in sheep's clothing?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"...I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people..."

Clearly not.

Indeed, the raison d'etre of almost every religion – not just Christianity – is to judge and condemn.

Okay C_Clayton_Jones
So lets play a game called name that religion.
If I dont agree to do what you are saying Christianity and other religions teach,
Then you are saying I cant be them.

I must be some other faith.

So what is it?

Trinitarian Universalist?

Constitutional Isonomy?

We should have a contest to name
The cult I am, then ban it so.nobody
else suffers. If you want to join membership is free, but you have to pay huge exit fees to get out when youve had enough.

You're a Christian if you say you are – that's all that's 'required.'

And no one can say you aren't a Christian, including other Christians.

Christianity's cafeteria plan is one of the things that makes it so popular.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear USMB members:

Much to my dismay I found a wonderful website
that Parture referred, and was very hopeful this was
a good way to help establish consensus on God and eradicate errors.

However, because I used terms incorrectly I got banned from that site,
accused of not being Christian and doubletalk in answering the questions wrong.

So I had to go back and deny all my faith in the Bible
and change all the answers to "not sure" in order to make sure I didn't make a mistake again
in answering those questions.

What kind of website would punish people for answering as honestly
as possible even though I may have made a mistake in explaining my views?

What kind of website would accuse people of guilty until proven innocent?

This is really sad because there is a section there on sharing about the Trinity
which I believe is the key in uniting all people in understanding
and now I cannot even post there because I have been falsely accused
of not being a believer.

Parture if you are reading this, this SADDENS me and makes
me want to renounce my faith if this is how Christians treat each other.
If I am not free to share honestly how and why I believe the Holy Trinity
is Universal but am accused for teaching this, then I ask you to prove
me a false prophet, put me on public trial, and let me be put to death
if I am speaking falsely. I have had enough of this weird behavior.

I even was honest about mentioning what websites referred
me here, and got an infraction for naming those sites that included advertising.

That site is a wonderful site content wise and I am sorry that it excludes people
based on false accusation and suspicion.

If I made mistakes I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people
first and then ask questions later? What kind of rebuke calls for that?

The Christianity I know respects natural laws of due process
as given by God, so this is contradictory with God's natural laws of justice.

If you have any comments please share,
because I am shocked and appalled that fellow Christians
would issue judgment and punishment first, even accusing a
fellow Christian of things I didn't mean the way I was accused
and was honestly trying to answer honestly.

Very strange, but I should not be surprised anymore.

No wonder people cannot stand Christians.

I feel owe an apology to all my atheist friends who warned me
Christians make no sense and contradict themselves
as hateful, judgmental unforgiving and beyond reasonable explanation!

Please tell me this can be corrected.

Otherwise I find it very hard to believe
* that because I teach forgiveness in Christ on a universal scale,
this means I am going to hell as a nonbeliever
* that because I agree with the Bible
and answered yes to those questions
that I am banned, so I had to change all my answers
to "not sure" and deny my faith in order not to make
any more mistakes by putting yes or no. This site
is forcing me to be "unsure" and has penalized
me for saying I agree with the Bible?

Sorry but this makes me not want to be Christian
if I have to fix this mess in order to prove that I am.

Maybe it's not worth the trouble.
Sorry Parture but if this is what I have to do to "prove I am Christian"
I don't think forcing people to deny agreeing with the Bible in order not to make a mistake
and punishing forgiveness is very Christian at all.

Whatever joke this is, I think it is sad.

didn't you once claim you are non theist?

Yes guno I am both
like being bilingual or trilingual.

My normal default culture is I focus on secular
and nontheistic ways of explaining things generally.

See my nontheistic explanation of the meaning of the
Bible that is how I normally see and say things:
Christ Jesus in terms of Restorative Justice
which is true for all people regardless if we are theist or nontheist,
this explanation seeks to be all encompassing of all views of humanity:
How to explain the Bible without reading it - Worth1000 Contests

Because I have received Christ in terms of embracing embodying
and committing to Christ Jesus as "Equal Justice" then I do and
experience the same process Christians do when they use the Bible,
but I use secular natural laws as in the Constitution and live by those.

I connect in this spirit with other Christians,
I can also experience and understand this idea of a
personal relationship and talking with God through Jesus
though my "native language" remains more secular. The Bible is like a second language
and I am more comfortable using Constitutional terms.

So I understand both experiences, both theistic and personified God/Jesus
and the nontheists secular approach to universal laws/truth that are called God's laws/truth.
The terminology differs, but the concepts and principles are the same or they "align" with each other.
The personification is not necessary, just like some people personify Mother Earth or Mother Nature
and we know this still means the world, earth, nature, laws of nature, whether we personify this or not.
If some people talk to nature, fine, some people talk to plants or animals, and that doesn't mean it
isn't real for them if that never happens with us.

So I am like both. This is why it tears me apart to see people of one
group accuse the other of choosing to deny, imposing, denying, excluding, discriminating or bullying
when people cannot help their way of experiencing the world.

I have trouble understanding purely atheistic people who cannot relate to but reject the theistic ways at all as false,
and the extreme theist types who cannot comprehend the atheists and think that is just plain wrong period.

Both are true, and I happen to experience both.
I don't go to extremes like the people who SEE angels or Jesus or heavenly visions as if they visited there.
But I feel enough of what they mean to get this real.

Like I am colorblind and cannot see all the reds and greens that other people can see but I can see general colors.
But I am not completely colorblind like atheists who can only see in black and white and don't see these colors at all.

So I have enough of both to understand why the groups cannot see or get what the other is seeing and why.

===============================
secular explanation of the meaning and message in the Bible:


To explain the story of humanity summarized in the Bible, it helps to distinguish the difference between the Old and New Testaments, which determines if the rest will make sense at all, or even needs to be read.

In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.

 

[Parture]

"...I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people..."

Clearly not.

Indeed, the raison d'etre of almost every religion – not just Christianity – is to judge and condemn.

Okay C_Clayton_Jones
So lets play a game called name that religion.
If I dont agree to do what you are saying Christianity and other religions teach,
Then you are saying I cant be them.

I must be some other faith.

So what is it?

Trinitarian Universalist?

Constitutional Isonomy?

We should have a contest to name
The cult I am, then ban it so.nobody
else suffers. If you want to join membership is free, but you have to pay huge exit fees to get out when youve had enough.

You're a Christian if you say you are – that's all that's 'required.'

And no one can say you aren't a Christian, including other Christians.

Christianity's cafeteria plan is one of the things that makes it so popular.

That's a stupid comment. This is a stupid thread.

 

[Michelle420]

emily- I'm serious. I got him/her on ignore for a reason; posting false doctrine.

Maybe you should read this book by Pulitzer Prize author Chris Hedges, son of a Preacher and a man who holds a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School.

THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT AND THE RISE OF AMERICAN FASCISM

Thanks but I think that website may be something else.

I found this on there about Heaven that mixes Hades that Jehovah's Witness reject as unbiblical
with Sheol that Jehovah's Witnesses teach instead. So I've never seen an explanation mix this together:

Three Heavens


Before time God decided His creation will have Three Heavens (2 Cor. 12.2)--a Paradise above (3rd Heaven), realm of fallen spirits if they fell (2nd Heaven), and our universe (1st Heaven). God also created timeless unawares called Hades or Sheol. Hades is not considered Heaven or Hell. The good side of Hades is called Paradise below or Abraham's bosom. Christians will be resurrected together (1 Thess. 4.15-17) from the good side of Hades to come before the Judgment-Seat to receive reward or loss of reward. The bad side of Hades is where the Rich Man went and the unsaved go when they die. They too will be resurrected but separated by 1000 years to the Great White Throne to be judged and cast into Hell.

-----------------

Where I think we got off on the wrong track,
the Bible scriptures cited mention the Devil the Beast and the False Prophet
thrown into the lake of fire. But those are not human souls. So we aren't even talking about the same thing
I don't think.

I don't think I can manage on that site without having each message
reviewed in advance by an admin and corrected by email before I post anything.

I would have to check with them each time and clarify we mean the same
thing before asking permission to post it so I don't cause an offense.

Otherwise the same thing will happen over and over by misinterpretations.

I also got an infraction message, for replying too generally and not responding directly.
So I probably cannot reply at all because that is how I normally talk and will keep getting infractions.

You should take the advice of Bfgrn and read that book.

Well the rightwing far right people I've talked with were never this duplicitous.

this guy really takes the cake.

I can deal with Klan, Jehovah's Witness, IDMR, prolife, one guy who wouldn't consider talking with me
until I did X Y Z, and he even admitted he knew my salvation was intact despite our disagreements.

I think this guy borders on the demons that attack priests
and get into their psyche and start messing with their minds.

they are more dangerous because they are divinely inspired
to push buttons on an unconscious level.

With the political types all their manipulations are out in the open.
They are at least PUBLIC with their hypocrisy so you can call them on it.

This guy is a unique challenge.
He actually has great gifts, like a spiritual genius,
but is completely wasting them by setting up tests and traps
to screen anyone out who can't rise above the faults.

Very interesting.

If he wants to expand his website and network globally
he is going to have to learn to work with people.

I could help him translate and interpret to connect with different groups
but I scared him to death with the idea of Universal inclusion he
may continue to reject me and try to make it my fault.

I don't think he's really ready or he would not sabotage
his own efforts and cut out people like me who would
be able to interpret, discern and help him.

Only demonic minded people try to attack and break
down people's faith for helping them on this level.

He is like a fallen angel, a misguided spirit
who does not know how to use his gifts
and doesn't know who to trust to help him with that.

I expect to fail his tests, so I gave up trying to pass.
I can try to reach out and offer help but not on his rules I can't
figure out and guess, I figured I would keep making mistakes
and so he would keep rejecting me so that game is a no win.

Next to him, Carla_Danger
all the rightwing extreme, prolife, anti-left,
raving oppressive closeminded ranters and railers
I have met seem like grown up children with louder megaphones.

This guy is too intelligent to play the simple games
and has created an elaborate maze to screen people out.

Sad for him, because with his visionary gifts he should
be drawing people in to share, not shutting people out.

This is unlike anything i have ever seen.

wish I could help but I don't think I am welcome there.

Sounds like you are dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing !

Do you think a non-universalist or a universalist is a wolf in sheep's clothing?

I think if a Christian site is banning someone like Emily, who I personally know offline, that there is something wrong with that site.

She's a very faithful person, an activist for social justice, she helps raise funds for non-profit in poor communities and she befriends all people even those others would have seen as a lost cause.

Behind the scenes she prays to see people in the highest regard but not blindly she also aims to uncover the root problem she is having with someone.

Why would a christian site ban her?

 

[emilynghiem]

"...I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people..."

Clearly not.

Indeed, the raison d'etre of almost every religion – not just Christianity – is to judge and condemn.

Okay C_Clayton_Jones
So lets play a game called name that religion.
If I dont agree to do what you are saying Christianity and other religions teach,
Then you are saying I cant be them.

I must be some other faith.

So what is it?

Trinitarian Universalist?

Constitutional Isonomy?

We should have a contest to name
The cult I am, then ban it so.nobody
else suffers. If you want to join membership is free, but you have to pay huge exit fees to get out when youve had enough.

You're a Christian if you say you are – that's all that's 'required.'

And no one can say you aren't a Christian, including other Christians.

Christianity's cafeteria plan is one of the things that makes it so popular.

Nope, not good enough.
if you even say that most Christians are running around judging people
I don't believe in that. So it is like accusing Muslims because of what Jihadists do.

If I am going to be accused of teaching false things
because either Christians abuse people
or Universalists are teaching falsely
then I need another label so I am NOT associated accused blamed or punished
for what these other labels do.

So I need a separate name for my beliefs
so this does not happen again.

I can't imagine being the Muslims treated as Jihadist sympathizers,
assumed to believe in something they do not and being blamed and rejected for it
first, assumed guilty until proven otherwise.

Let's go ahead and be honest I am something else,
not these other things and other labels.

I would love to have a name for this.

I could end up in the Guinness World Records
as the rarest religion with only one member alive.
Not counting any locked up in mental wards or
drugging themselves out so they don't feel the insanity.

 

[Michelle420]

Hi ninja007 what threads was that on, what is your denomination,
can you send or post me anything helpful to understand the history here.

Can you help us on the threads where Parture is improperly rebuking TY MaxGrit and me.

If we cannot help poor Parture at least we can establish agreement on other points
and benefit from the discussion there.

Thank you very much
I am a spiritual empath and tend to mimic and take on the thoughts and feelings
of people in distress around me, in order to understand the conflicts and resolve them.

I was beginning to get sucked in too deep into some truly negative conflicts
so thank you for explaining there is a history of this and it was not just me feeling the craziness.

I have to be more careful, I am way too sensitive to be around that without adequate warning.

I'm a bible believing Jesus follower (although I fail often!). I am Protestant and believe in OSAS (eternal security of the Believer)> I believe in the Pre Trib Rapture also.

Do you really believe Jesus fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish? Then you will believe me when I say I caught a fish this big. (Imagine I have my arms completely stretched out as far as they can go to the left and right of me.)

That is not a condition on salvation. I don't even think Parture believes that. I only have to believe what he and his website say and there is no mention of that. Only to believe the 66 books are complete. Oh and that the Bible literally says 6 days which means figuratively but is literally six days. Did you catch that? If you speak doubletalk in trying to answer then you are downgraded for that. And if you get angry you cant be a real Christian. If this is how immigrants were screened or the police you'd only let in the crazy psychopaths who can lie without giving themselves away.

I am OSAS Arminian so I believe in the 2rd point of conditional election. God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

Hi Parture
Can you explain why you said there is no motivation to change behavior
if there is universal salvation
but then you said that I was "going to hell for eternal torment"
for believing that God can save all souls from hell.

If the ONLY motivation that changes people's
behavior is whether or not it means going to hell,

What motivation does someone
and this eternal punishment is no different from
someone who murders one person or twenty,
or just teaches something different which is correctable.

My point is that everyone is REQUIRED
to do all the steps in the Bible to receive Salvation
because this is God's will,
then the MORE and the WORSE sins you commit
the more WORK at restitution AFTER you are
saved and you commit to right all the wrongs oyu committed.

This is NOT a condition BEFORE salvation
but the natural consequence AFTER salvation
that people will be compelled to correct wha tthey did wrong.

So isn't that MORE motivation to correct the maximum
and limit the wrongs and damage to the minimum?

if EVERYONE is going to go through salvation
so there is NO FREE RIDE.

NObody gets to just mess up left and right,
and then let God burn them in hell for it afterwards.

You have to fix all the damage you did
PROPORTIONAL because after you receive
understanding of Grace and Salvation you
NATURALLY repent and want to make right.

So that makes more sense as to why
people would be motivated by conscience
to minimalize mistakes, wrongs, damages and debts.

I am a secular Gentile called to receive and teach
Christ Jesus as fulfilling natural laws of justice.

And this is the understanding of Restorative Justice
of cause and effect that Christ Jesus represents
universally for All people both Christian believers
in Christ Jesus as fulfilling the Biblical scriiptures
and the Believes in Equal Justice Under Law
that Christ Jesus fulfills as Restorative Justice.

Christ governs both folds of the one flock.

So Parture if you are truly Called in Christ Jesus
you would obey both these laws that Jesus embodies
and fulfills and you would not violate either one.

Punishing people based on onesided accusations
first and then putting them on the defense afterwards
VIOLATES
Scripture in Matthew 18:15-20
and violates natural laws on due process
by which people expect to be treated innocent
first until proven guilty, unless you don't believe
in this and you agree to be accused and punished
first and then defend yourself after being accused and punished.

I am willing to follow the natural laws
by which we agree to love and treat
each other as ourselves; so please
let me know if you AGREE to be
accused and punished first and
then defend your innocence afterwards.

Please let me know what you believe
about these laws, so I can hold you
to those standards, and not Christian
or Constitutional standards if you don't follow those.

My apologies if I mistook you for a Christian
who believes in rebuke by Matthew 18 if this
is not your belief. If you are not truly Christian
I cannot hold you to those standards.

Please tell me what your standards are then.
Thank you Parture

You do have good points and fine explanations
on your website that have great potential,
but if you play these games to test people's faith
I'm not sure I can get past all these arbitrary
barriers you put up to try to have a Christian
connection and conversation with you.

I hope that we can because I see you
have valuable gifts that would be a shame
if you cannot share them with more people.

But these horrible games would have to stop.
I find this very cruel. and the saddest thing to
me is realizing you do not understand.
Sorry I thought you did and that is why I
was shocked and reacted as I did.
Once I got that you did NOT know better,
I was sorry for you and hope I can help.
What a shame if your spiritual gifts go to waste.
I am gifted in spiritual interpretation and could
help you communicate what you are trying to
do and say, but if you treat me this poorly
I cannot very well recommend you to anyone else.
this would have to be resolved first,
and I trus tin Christ Jesus that it will.

Parture may all your gifts be brought forth
and any barriers to them be removed.
May God make the very most of the special
purpose talents and gifts you have, and may
you receive all the help you need to clean up
problems you have communicating this
here or through your other web postings.

You have profound gifts and need more help
to unwrap them, instead of booby trapping
them with nails to blow up in people's faces.

Yours truly,
Emily

Good points Emily.

 

[emilynghiem]

Do you think a non-universalist or a universalist is a wolf in sheep's clothing?

the one who condemns the other to hell for something that can be easily corrected,
but then claims to have faith in forgiveness and correction in Christ,
appears to be speaking doubletalk.

If this person ADMITS they DON'T have faith in God or Christ
to correct such faults so nobody goes to hell,
that would be honest.

to claim faith in Christ but then accuse and condemn
instead of following scriptures on Christian rebuke
is either duplicitous if it is deliberate, or negligent if it is out of ignorance.

I thought it was deliberate but now I see it was of ignorance
so that is more easily forgivable,
since Parture did not understand
Christian faith and salvation as claimed.

He is misguided and suspicious of others
but that is correctable and forgivable in Christ.

He appeared in more danger of going to hell
yet accuses others who are in less danger than himself.

Since he doesn't know what he is doing wrong,
that is not the same as someone deliberately doing this.

 

[Parture]

Always remember, Emily is going to Hell forever because she is a universalist. No Christians are universalists. Don't let her deceive you. She is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The tares are among the wheat trying to look like Christians but they are not. In some ways they can resemble a child of God, but when you find out what they really believe you know they were never born-again.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"...I thought the point of Christianity is to
forgive and correct mistakes instead of judge and condemn people..."

Clearly not.

Indeed, the raison d'etre of almost every religion – not just Christianity – is to judge and condemn.

Okay C_Clayton_Jones
So lets play a game called name that religion.
If I dont agree to do what you are saying Christianity and other religions teach,
Then you are saying I cant be them.

I must be some other faith.

So what is it?

Trinitarian Universalist?

Constitutional Isonomy?

We should have a contest to name
The cult I am, then ban it so.nobody
else suffers. If you want to join membership is free, but you have to pay huge exit fees to get out when youve had enough.

You're a Christian if you say you are – that's all that's 'required.'

And no one can say you aren't a Christian, including other Christians.

Christianity's cafeteria plan is one of the things that makes it so popular.

Nope, not good enough.
if you even say that most Christians are running around judging people
I don't believe in that. So it is like accusing Muslims because of what Jihadists do.

If I am going to be accused of teaching false things
because either Christians abuse people
or Universalists are teaching falsely
then I need another label so I am NOT associated accused blamed or punished
for what these other labels do.

So I need a separate name for my beliefs
so this does not happen again.

I can't imagine being the Muslims treated as Jihadist sympathizers,
assumed to believe in something they do not and being blamed and rejected for it
first, assumed guilty until proven otherwise.

Let's go ahead and be honest I am something else,
not these other things and other labels.

I would love to have a name for this.

I could end up in the Guinness World Records
as the rarest religion with only one member alive.
Not counting any locked up in mental wards or
drugging themselves out so they don't feel the insanity.

Nonsense.

No one religion or man has a 'monopoly' on the truth.

Indeed, this is the essence of Reformation dogma: one man alone with his bible realizing grace, free from the tyranny of an ecclesiastical hierarchy.

 

[Michelle420]

Always remember, Emily is going to Hell forever because she is a universalist. No Christians are universalists. Don't let her deceive you. She is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The tares are among the wheat trying to look like Christians but they are not. In some ways they can resemble a child of God, but when you find out what they really believe you know they were never born-again.

Jesus went around healing people, not banning them.

 

[Parture]

Always remember, Emily is going to Hell forever because she is a universalist. No Christians are universalists. Don't let her deceive you. She is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The tares are among the wheat trying to look like Christians but they are not. In some ways they can resemble a child of God, but when you find out what they really believe you know they were never born-again.

Jesus went around healing people, not banning them.

Nobody is banned. Emily is lying to you.

 

[teddyearp]

Dear USMB members:

Much to my dismay I found a wonderful website
that Parture referred, and was very hopeful this was
a good way to help establish consensus on God and eradicate errors.

However, because I used terms incorrectly I got banned from that site,
accused of not being Christian and doubletalk in answering the questions wrong.

So I had to go back and deny all my faith in the Bible
and change all the answers to "not sure" in order to make sure I didn't make a mistake again
in answering those questions.

What kind of website would punish people for answering as honestly
as possible even though I may have made a mistake in explaining my views?

What kind of website would accuse people of guilty until proven innocent?

Emily, I have just came into this thread, but I feel your pain. I too, almost signed up at Parture's little 'church' website. I stopped at the last question because I saw that he wants his 'church's 'elders' and 'apostles' to have dominion over our salvation. that is not scriptural IMHO.

Not only that, but the little boy Parture refuses to answer questions like an adult here. I noticed that his little sandbox playground site has about what, 100 members? But somehow he has been lording over these folks fro about 5 years now and has felt comfortable enough to come out of his child's sandbox there and try to be an adult here. He has failed.

Go home, boy Parture

 

[cnm]

Nobody is banned. Emily is lying to you.

This is an amusing thread.

You [Emily] aren't banned. Rather you are on temporary ban for having a doubletongue.

 

[teddyearp]

No worries, chances are good you'll manage to fit in with yourself.

I think I should have fired myself a long time ago.
Whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing, I'm not doing a very good job!

Don't worry, you're doing just fine.

 

[Parture]

Dear USMB members:

Much to my dismay I found a wonderful website
that Parture referred, and was very hopeful this was
a good way to help establish consensus on God and eradicate errors.

However, because I used terms incorrectly I got banned from that site,
accused of not being Christian and doubletalk in answering the questions wrong.

So I had to go back and deny all my faith in the Bible
and change all the answers to "not sure" in order to make sure I didn't make a mistake again
in answering those questions.

What kind of website would punish people for answering as honestly
as possible even though I may have made a mistake in explaining my views?

What kind of website would accuse people of guilty until proven innocent?

Emily, I have just came into this thread, but I feel your pain. I too, almost signed up at Parture's little 'church' website. I stopped at the last question because I saw that he wants his 'church's 'elders' and 'apostles' to have dominion over our salvation. that is not scriptural IMHO.

Not only that, but the little boy Parture refuses to answer questions like an adult here. I noticed that his little sandbox playground site has about what, 100 members? But somehow he has been lording over these folks fro about 5 years now and has felt comfortable enough to come out of his child's sandbox there and try to be an adult here. He has failed.

Go home, boy Parture

So much hostility how could someone consider you a Christian? You are not saved by Apostles and Elders, so why sin bearing false witness? A website is not a Church either, so why say it is? Everything you say is so misrepresentative of reality. All of this is very immature, childish, and you're being evil sinning bearing false witness. It would be very difficult for a Christian to consider you a Christian for Christians are not hostile to one another. And now you are defending a universalist, but universalism is false. So how does that make you a Christian when you don't even once try to correct Emily that universalism is false. This too is how I know you are not a Christian, because unless you confess who He truly is to others He will deny you before the Father in heaven.

 

[Parture]

Nobody is banned. Emily is lying to you.

This is an amusing thread.

You [Emily] aren't banned. Rather you are on temporary ban for having a doubletongue.

It is I agree. I got Emily a universalist claiming she is a Christian, and tedy who has a hard on for me, so hostile, so aggressive, hates the Apostles and Elders and thinks a website is a Church. Who knew?

 

[Parture]

It doesn't make sense to me why someone say they believe in the eternal separation of the unsaved in hell then turn around and say they are saved. That's universalism for ya. Teddy if he were a Christian would help Emily in her confusion, but he doesn't because teddy is fraud. He even thinks salvation occurs by Apostles. No. It is a free choice to accept Christ individually.

 

[teddyearp]

I should be glad it isn't just me, but now I feel very sorry for Parture.
I still want to help, and don't know if I can speak his language to fellowship with him or not.
It is a very specific denomination, and it would take practice to speak his language.
Unfortunately he doesn't practice forgiveness so the learning curve would be painful.
I don't know if I can take that burden on to help this poor fellow out of his narrowed mindset.

Emily, just turn off your empathy for this little child. I know that this sounds unChristian, but he is beyond your energy to try to save. As you said, he has a very narrow (and childish) mindset and it would be a total waste of your energy to try to change. I have had to use this phrase many times in my walk:

Let go, Let God.

God bless.