For those that may prefer a Socialist country

[Red Front]

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[tahuyaman]

Socialism is succeeding now and in the future will become necessary.

It’s not succeeding anywhere. Name these successful socialist nations?

 

[tahuyaman]

You're conflating the USSR with the Western, more democratic socialism of the 21st century. The Russian Soviet model was highly centralized due to being in a state of war for practically all of its existence. It was invaded in 1918 by the United States and 14 other countries. It had to fight a nasty war against the Russian capitalist ruling class and then it was invaded by 8 million Nazis, resulting in the death of 28 million Soviet citizens (the US lost 460,000 in WW2). Most of the infrastructure in Western Russia built during Stalin's "five-year" plans in the 1930s, was decimated. The Soviets had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild the USSR, without the assistance of a "Marshal Plan". Despite that, they were a superpower.

The quickest way to industrialize a nation is through socialism. It will turn an agrarian, under-industrialized, backwater country, into an industrial juggernaut in less than 20 years. A world power. It took one war after another before the Soviets were defeated. Capitalist Republicans were defeated many times by the European monarchists until the conditions permitted them to replace the kings and feudal lords. The same will also occur with socialism, replacing capitalism.

The communism you referred to is just idealism. It’s never been implemented because it’s impossible. I have referred to the communism which has been tried and always fails.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Seeing the various illustrations in this thread, the one thing that jumps out at me is that socialists are really into fisting.

 

[Red Front]

It’s not succeeding anywhere.

It is, so you might as well become a socialist now Bubba.

 

[tahuyaman]

It is, so you might as well become a socialist now Bubba.

Why would I want to enter into a system which always ends in failure?

 

[Kruska]

These right-wingers think socialism and communism are over and done with lol. What they fail to grasp is that it takes time for an economic system to replace another, it doesn't happen overnight. The material conditions have to be in place for it to happen. The European mercantile class didn't become the powerful, capitalist industrialists until the technology was available and conditions were ripe for capitalism to replace feudalism and the royal aristocracy.

The 20th century saw the final birth pains of socialism, and the 21st century, thanks to advanced automation and AI will give birth to the actual socialist age, that will replace capitalism. The 21st century is going to give birth to socialism. These right-wingers are completely clueless to this fact, thinking "socialism is dead" lol.

In principal I agree with you in regards to Western countries. But what is always overlooked or downplayed is human nature itself - self-centered therefore individual greediness and individuality itself.

IMO only a one-party ruled country or if you prefer dictatorship e.g. China - can actually enforce-develop such a system - (which is what XI is doing since now 5-6 years - but with growing opposition amongst the population - therefore he stepped onto the brakes last year - as you stated corectly it takes time to change a social-economic system) whilst democratic countries will always fail, due to their internal squabbling and all parties simply playing towards their own agendas - which is their wallet or personal unrealistic fantasies, and not that of the peoples majority aka the country.

The major difference between China and Western Lefties&libs is that - China is not trying to impose/invent a moral unified standard onto it's population, but respects the social culture of it's population. Minorities are protected and respected but not highlighted or set above the majority. E.g. one can be as Gay or Lesbian as one want's to in China - but if it interferes, or starts to disturb the moral or cultural believes of the majority - the government will act accordingly - and does not allow for minorities to impose standards onto a majority. There is no gender-ism in China - a Boy is a Boy and a girl is a girl - nothing to discuss. That there are transgenders - everyone in China knows that - but to enforce laws towards education - teaching that homosexuality or transgenderism is normal - no way.

So China is trying to create a social economic harmonious society, adjusted to its existing sociology-cultural layout - and not an all-alike/uniformed society and economy, based on new "humanistic" moralistic ideals as defined by Western Lefties&Libs. - two very different goals actually.

 

[Red Front]

The communism you referred to is just idealism. It’s never been implemented because it’s impossible. I have referred to the communism which has been tried and always fails.

USSR - Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics

Where is the word "communist" there? It's not there. Tahu ignores the fact that according to Marx, communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. The Soviet Union had a state and a national currency hence it wasn't communist. Socialism is the process that leads to communism. Tahu also conveniently ignores the fact that every nation that identifies itself as having a Marxist economy becomes a target of capitalist powers like the United States. Such countries are economically embargoed and often attacked militarily. So to say that socialist countries fail without factoring that in is disingenuous at best.

More, Tahu also ignores the fact that capitalism didn't replace chattel slavery and feudalism, overnight, it took centuries. So why does he demand that socialism replace capitalism in one single swoop of the sword or overnight? Socialism will replace capitalism when technology permits. We're now on the cusp of entering into the socialist age, due to advanced automation technology and AI.

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[Red Front]

Why would I want to enter into a system which always ends in failure?

There are many modern industrialized nations today that apply socialist principles, allowing capitalism to exist. Without socialism, capitalism would've collapsed a long time ago. Whenever the capitalists destroy the economy, requiring a bailout, they turn to the government to get their public handout. Capitalism goes through a boom and bust cycle that lasts between seven and twelve years. If you look at history, whenever that business boom goes bust or when those bubbles burst, socialism is there to save it. Without socialism, capitalism would've collapsed a long time ago.

 

[tahuyaman]

There are many modern industrialized nations today that apply socialist principles, allowing capitalism to exist. Without socialism, capitalism would've collapsed a long time ago. Whenever the capitalists destroy the economy, requiring a bailout, they turn to the government to get their public handout. Capitalism goes through a boom and bust cycle that lasts between seven and twelve years. If you look at history, whenever that business boom goes bust or when those bubbles burst, socialism is there to save it. Without socialism, capitalism would've collapsed a long time ago.

They may have some socialist aspects and programs, but they are not socialist nations like current four true socialist nations on earth today.

 

[tahuyaman]

USSR - Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics

Where is the word "communist" there? It's not there. Tahu ignores the fact that according to Marx, communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. The Soviet Union had a state and a national currency hence it wasn't communist. Socialism is the process that leads to communism. Tahu also conveniently ignores the fact that every nation that identifies itself as having a Marxist economy becomes a target of capitalist powers like the United States. Such countries are economically embargoed and often attacked militarily. So to say that socialist countries fail without factoring that in is disingenuous at best.

More, Tahu also ignores the fact that capitalism didn't replace chattel slavery and feudalism, overnight, it took centuries. So why does he demand that socialism replace capitalism in one single swoop of the sword or overnight? Socialism will replace capitalism when technology permits. We're now on the cusp of entering into the socialist age, due to advanced automation technology and AI.

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Are you trying to claim the Soviet system was not communism?


So if a nation placed the words “people’s republic” in their name they are a true republic?

 

[Red Front]

They may have some socialist aspects and programs, but they are not socialist nations like current four true socialist nations on earth today.

Tahu conveniently forgets to mention that the countries that he listed, outwardly identify themselves as having Marxist economies, hence are under economic sanctions and often threatened militarily by the American capitalist empire and its allies. Socialism is the future, you might as well become one now.

 

[Thinker101]

It is, so you might as well become a socialist now Bubba.

Must not be much fun having such a screwed up life. Only guarantee, if you live in this country, is socialism or communism or Marxism or whatever the hell you're attempting to peddle won't be happening in your life time.

 

[Kruska]

Are you trying to claim the Soviet system was not communism?


So if a nation placed the words “people’s republic” in their name they are a true republic?

According to your mindset YES
Just as your idiotic claim towards 4 socialist countries existing.

 

[Red Front]

Are you trying to claim the Soviet system was not communism?


So if a nation placed the words “people’s republic” in their name they are a true republic?

You have poor reading comprehension. Communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. The Soviets had a state and a national currency, hence they weren't communists. The reason that socialists, sometimes identify themselves as communists, is because communism is the objective. We identify ourselves and our socialist activism, as communist, because that's the goal. But technically, we're socialist. Socialism is the process that leads to high-communism.

There is the primitive communism of our ancestors when humanity lived in tribes:

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And there is "high" communism or high-tech communism, which requires advanced technology:

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[Kruska]

Must not be much fun having such a screwed up life. Only guarantee, if you live in this country, is socialism or communism or Marxism or whatever the hell you're attempting to peddle won't be happening in your life time.

What do you think - e.g. social welfare or unemployment benefits are? Capitalist ideals??

 

[Red Front]

Must not be much fun having such a screwed up life. Only guarantee, if you live in this country, is socialism or communism or Marxism or whatever the hell you're attempting to peddle won't be happening in your life time.

It will happen faster than you think. Advanced automation and AI is going to decimate the capitalist economy, requiring socialism, sooner than you expect.

 

[tahuyaman]

Tahu conveniently forgets to mention that the countries that he listed, outwardly identify themselves as having Marxist economies, hence are under economic sanctions and often threatened militarily by the American capitalist empire and its allies. Socialism is the future, you might as well become one now.

Tell me which countries you claim are successful socialist nations.


This is where the supporters of socialism fall flat. Every time you point out a failing or failed socialist or communist state they claim the failures are for other reasons. They just don’t do it right.

 

[Thinker101]

What do you think - e.g. social welfare or unemployment benefits are? Capitalist ideals??

Sure don't recall saying we don't have social programs.

 

[tahuyaman]

What do you think - e.g. social welfare or unemployment benefits are? Capitalist ideals??

So, a few socialist programs makes a country a socialist nation?