Florida Senate Discussing Tax Hike For EV Owners

[WorldWatcher]

It is not that difficult
If you anticipate you will drive 15,000 a year, you can set up a plan where you pay $42 a quarter
If you end up driving 16,000 a year, you make up the difference at the end of the year. if you only drove 14,000 you get a rebate or a credit.

You said the mileage was checked and established a rate, which you then pay at re-registration. That would either be a lump sum payment or (now quarterly payments) to pay the previous debt.

But now you need to a setup a new billing apparatus and collection system for those retro payments. Or, now we are establishing a baseline to then project future mileage and you (a) pay the first amount in full, then (b) make quarterly payments on projections with possibly a rebate or overage charge the next time your mileage is checked.

Sorry, way to complicated. Just charge the consumption tax as time of consumption. No tracking of mileage, not projections, not quarterly billing, no debt collection not problems with peoples changing vehicles, changing jobs, or changing driving habits.

WW

 

[rightwinger]

Sorry, way to complicated. Just charge the consumption tax as time of consumption. No tracking of mileage, not projections, not quarterly billing, no debt collection not problems with peoples changing vehicles, changing jobs, or changing driving habits.

How do you determine time of consumption with an EV?
They have to pay sometime

 

[WorldWatcher]

How do you determine time of consumption with an EV?
They have to pay sometime

How do you determine consumption with an ICE?

Same way, charge the tax as part of the "go juice" delivery. For gas it's a per gallon tax. For EV's it would be a tax per kWh. As I already pointed out:

• If a public charging station, the price per kWh is baked into the charging fee,
• If a private charging station in the garage the charge is a line that gets added to monthly utility bill. The changeover would require meter changes so that electricity routed to the charging station is metered for the different rate.

I'd covered this previously.

WW

 

[Redfish]

Because the miles on your vehicle are relevant

States would record your mileage when you renew your registration. Won’t take any new people
It is all automated

Why? so people who drive more will pay more taxes? hint: they already do because they buy more gas which has road taxes in the price per gallon. If you sincerely want the EV guys to pay their share put a tax on the electricity they use to recharge their explosive batteries.

 

[Redfish]

How do you determine consumption with an ICE?

Same way, charge the tax as part of the "go juice" delivery. For gas it's a per gallon tax. For EV's it would be a tax per kWh. As I already pointed out:

• If a public charging station, the price per kWh is baked into the charging fee,
• If a private charging station in the garage the charge is a line that gets added to monthly utility bill. The changeover would require meter changes so that electricity routed to the charging station is metered for the different rate.

I'd covered this previously.

WW

winger is incapable of comprehending anything that does not take away basic rights of freedom and privacy.

 

[Redfish]

It is the only way to make sure people who drive EVs pay taxes for the upkeep of roads. Or would you rather they all get a free pass?

No, just put a tax on the electricity that they use to recharge, its not complicated.

 

[AntonToo]

Bullshit. California charges one of the highest registration fees for EVs in the nation. Hawaii is the second highest.

It's bullshit that Democrats support EV incentives more than Republicans?

And then you top it off with more bullshit:

California charges $100 extra for EV annual registration, Hawaii is $50.

It's ~$150 in Indiana, Iowa and Ohio, $110 in Louisiana

Special Fees on Plug-In Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

How states are tackling declining gas tax revenues from electric vehicles and hybrids since these vehicles require no gasoline to operate.

www.ncsl.org

 

[rightwinger]

Why? so people who drive more will pay more taxes? hint: they already do because they buy more gas which has road taxes in the price per gallon. If you sincerely want the EV guys to pay their share put a tax on the electricity they use to recharge their explosive batteries.

Look
You buy an EV, you must be willing to report your miles and pay road use fees

Just like someone who uses more gas will pay more taxes, an EV owner who drives more will pay more

 

[Redfish]

Look
You buy an EV, you must be willing to report your miles and pay road use fees

Just like someone who uses more gas will pay more taxes, an EV owner who drives more will pay more

yes, but we are talking about how that extra tax is calculated. We all agree that they should pay their share but there are easy and hard ways to collect it.

 

[Blues Man]

No, just put a tax on the electricity that they use to recharge, its not complicated.

You don't know how much of their electricity is being used to charge the car. And what if they charge the car somewhere other than their home?

 

[WorldWatcher]

You don't know how much of their electricity is being used to charge the car.

You would have to meter the electricity going to the charging station or the charging station functioning as the meter to the EV.

And what if they charge the car somewhere other than their home?

Since the EV charge would be:

• At a public charging station the tax per kWh is charged there,
• If at their home charging station, the kWh is charged there,
• If they go to a friends house to charge then the tax is paid by the friend. No different then if I go to my friends house and he pours 10 gallons of gas in my car and doesn't charge me for it. He paid the tax which is all the stare cares about.

WW

 

[Redfish]

You don't know how much of their electricity is being used to charge the car. And what if they charge the car somewhere other than their home?

easy, put a meter on the recharging station.

 

[Blues Man]

easy, put a meter on the recharging station.

Why should a person be forced to pay the extra expense of installing a meter?

You don't pay an extra expense for for a meter to monitor your gasoline consumption. And besides that all anyone would have to do to avoid the tax is to install the charging station themselves, It's not any harder than running a 240 volt line for a dryer

 

[WorldWatcher]

Why should a person be forced to pay the extra expense of installing a meter?

You don't pay an extra expense for for a meter to monitor your gasoline consumption. And besides that all anyone would have to do to avoid the tax is to install the charging station themselves, It's not any harder than running a 240 volt line for a dryer

The meter would be part of the charging station.

Actually you do pay an extra expense for a meter to monitor your gas consumption. The meter is contained in the pump that delivers the gas. It is an expense (along with the supply chain and pump) baked into the price of gas being measured out into your tank.

WW

 

[Blues Man]

The meter would be part of the charging station.

Actually you do pay an extra expense for a meter to monitor your gas consumption. The meter is contained in the pump that delivers the gas. It is an expense (along with the supply chain and pump) baked into the price of gas being measured out into your tank.

WW

Good luck with making that a nationwide law

 

[WorldWatcher]

Good luck with making that a nationwide law

Tax collection would be via state law.

In Virginia the gas tax is $0.28 a gallon.

WW

 

[Blues Man]

Tax collection would be via state law.

In Virginia the gas tax is $0.28 a gallon.

WW

I don't see it happening at the state level either.

The fact is that mileage is the much fairer way to levy taxes for the upkeep of roads than how many gallons of gas you buy or how many KW of electricity you use.

Do you actually think the state has no idea how many miles you put on a car?

VA requires annual safety inspections where they also record the mileage of the car.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I don't see it happening at the state level either.

The fact is that mileage is the much fairer way to levy taxes for the upkeep of roads than how many gallons of gas you buy or how many KW of electricity you use.

Do you actually think the state has no idea how many miles you put on a car?

VA requires annual safety inspections where they also record the mileage of the car.

#1 But we don't collect the consumption tax on ICE vehicles based on mileage, so why should EV's be different. I'm mean if we want to change the whole structure to a mileage fee based on reported miles to cent'gov - OK that's fine. But to say ICE engines get taxed on a per gallon basis (regardless of mileage of the vehicle) to a mileage tax for EV's - having two different standards for the same thing isn't logical.

#2 As previously discussed with RightWinger - the problem with paying an annual fee is that it is either (a) a retro active fee based on the previous years mileage, or (b) or it is a predictive fee based on expected mileage. A one time collection at the time of safety inspection will increase the cost of safety inspections from about $20 to about $188 dollars (replacing the $0.28 with an annual fee and 15,000 miles per year). Then you run into problems with the "predictive" model in that people will want rebates if they drive less miles than predicted or if they sell the vehicle. Both add overhead.

WW

 

[Blues Man]

#1 But we don't collect the consumption tax on ICE vehicles based on mileage, so why should EV's be different. I'm mean if we want to change the whole structure to a mileage fee based on reported miles to cent'gov - OK that's fine. But to say ICE engines get taxed on a per gallon basis (regardless of mileage of the vehicle) to a mileage tax for EV's - having two different standards for the same thing isn't logical.

#2 As previously discussed with RightWinger - the problem with paying an annual fee is that it is either (a) a retro active fee based on the previous years mileage, or (b) or it is a predictive fee based on expected mileage. A one time collection at the time of safety inspection will increase the cost of safety inspections from about $20 to about $188 dollars (replacing the $0.28 with an annual fee and 15,000 miles per year). Then you run into problems with the "predictive" model in that people will want rebates if they drive less miles than predicted or if they sell the vehicle. Both add overhead.

WW

It's not a consumption tax it's a road use tax. And it should be for the past year which is easy to track anyway because they already have the mileage from your last inspection on record.

 

[WorldWatcher]

It's not a consumption tax it's a road use tax. And it should be for the past year which is easy to track anyway because they already have the mileage from your last inspection on record.

I road use tax would be based on mileage.

Gas Taxes are not a road use tax they are a consumption tax based on gallons purchased. Doesn't matter if that gallon of gas will drive the vehicle 15 miles or 40. Gas taxes are based on the consumption of gas.

Now true, the intent of the tax is to finance roads, no disagreement there. But the method of collection is consumption.

WW