Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[Big Fitz]

The fact that 10% of a million dollars is still more than 10% of 10,000 dollars seems to elude the high tax bracket fans. As if having more money means they don't deserve to keep the same percentage as a poor person.

Either you're being disingenuous or you're really slow. Please re-read what I wrote:

The millionaire pays the exact same tax rate as the guy who works at McDonalds . . . at least to the first $10,000/year each earns. Those who are similarly situated are treated exactly the same.

A millionaire and someone who works at McDonalds are not similarly situated. Got it? The difference in treatment is founded on a rational basis, namely income disparity, in furtherance of a legitimate end, the gov't gathering income. Please read up on Equal Protection theory.

Genius. It's equal protection( under the law) NOT equality of outcome.
Please stop using income difference as a rationalization for higher tax rates or redistribution of wealth.

THAT is the key difference. They pick an idea of 'wealthy enough' in their head then try to force society to meet it by any means necessary.

 

[Bern80]

"Socialism will only work with a society of prisoners, slaves, and robots who can be controlled by the ruling elite (which will always exist in that type of system).

And funny how socialism is something to be forced upon the 'people', and not really for the socialists themselves"

The above is taken from your signature message.

If you believe that right-wing propaganda I respectfully suggest you research Denmark, which is a recognized socialist nation -- and is considered the "happiest" nation in the world.
Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

The fact that your belief system is predicated on a false premise means your intellectual compass is defective. So unless you wish to remain adrift you need to correct that error.

Why would someone who has everything done for them by someone else not be happy?

 

[Big Fitz]

"Socialism will only work with a society of prisoners, slaves, and robots who can be controlled by the ruling elite (which will always exist in that type of system).

And funny how socialism is something to be forced upon the 'people', and not really for the socialists themselves"

The above is taken from your signature message.

If you believe that right-wing propaganda I respectfully suggest you research Denmark, which is a recognized socialist nation -- and is considered the "happiest" nation in the world.
Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

The fact that your belief system is predicated on a false premise means your intellectual compass is defective. So unless you wish to remain adrift you need to correct that error.

Why would someone who has everything done for them by someone else not be happy?

Why does the caged bird sing? Why are intelligent people less happy than dumb ones? This is a question better asked a slave.

 

[DiamondDave]

No... I do not agree it would be better... the only thing better is a less complex system.... but it is just as bad in terms of progressive rates based on income

Then I can only suggest that you're in denial. I'm not gonna do the math for you, but the progressive rates we currently have create much greater inequity in taxation than a flat rate - even with a base exemption. It's easy enough to work out with a calculator.

Depends on what they do now doesn't it?? Leaving a door open for more exemptions, tax floors artificially made, deductions etc... and changing the whole thing leads us right back to where we are... which is exactly what the progressive supporters want... they won't agree on an equal rate tax system on every dollar earned with no deductions and no loopholes and no exceptions.. because it leave nothing for them to worm subjective 'fairness' back into the system..

20k?? Why not 30?? Why not 35?? Why not 50 for couples?? Why not 5K more for every kid?? Why not deducting for food expenses from income?? Why not this, and why not that?? Agreeing to such a system leads us right back to where we are, and right back into just as bad of a progressive system with difering rates based on income... a punishment system...

Can I continue to take advantage of charity donations? Kid credits? Mortgage int deductions? Etc? Yep... I sure as hell can... but I am not into paying less than person X or more than person Y... I want equal treatment by government without all this extra bullshit that causes the need for government to pry more, expand more, and spend more... even if I end up paying a bit more in %... because it would be at least equal, everyone would have a stake in the game, and the same stake per dollar in the game.. there would be no reason to argue because those reasons would be taken away.. except for the progressives like 15 there who cling to their subjective stance on 'fairness' because either they want to get away with something or they want someone else to get away with something at the expense of a group they 'hate'

 

[DiamondDave]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the higher income earner benefit from the progressive system?

For instance, $100,000 in income at a 10% flat tax would mean $10,000 in taxes, while with the $20,000 deduction it would mean only $8,000 in taxes.

Yup...

It makes me question the grasp of a progressive tax system some people have.

Either that or DD's extreme hatred of the poor makes him willing to pay more in taxes just to stick it to them.

Pretty funny stuff.

Does support of an equal % sales tax on all purchases, regardless of income, show 'hatred for the poor'??

What I hate is a system inherently based on unequal treatment and where subjective bullshit rules the way...

 

[DiamondDave]

Is that 20K the same % of income as 20K for the person making 500K?? No.... You are creating a false floor that INHERENTLY changes the total % paid by citizen based on income... hence a motherfucking progressive system... you know it.. .I know it..... at a 10% tax rate... that means the person making 19K pays a 0% rate, a person making 30K paying a 3.33% rate, a person making 100K paying an 8% rate, and a person making 2.5MIL at a 9.993% rate..... you see.. progressively unequal and based on income

You dishonest piece of shit

Such animosity....

That 20k is obviously going to be a different percentage for anyone not making the exact same amount. My answer to you is "so what" everyone pays that same zero rate on those dollars earned and the same rate on each dollar after that. The same goes for a progressive system with multiple brackets or a flat tax system where there are no brackets and just one rate. As long as every dollar for dollar is taxed the same for everyone it's fair. This is obviously a blind spot of yours.

Now cry some moar.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the higher income earner benefit from the progressive system?

For instance, $100,000 in income at a 10% flat tax would mean $10,000 in taxes, while with the $20,000 deduction it would mean only $8,000 in taxes.

Because it is just another disguised way of making a progressive system with differing %'s paid based on income.. a punishment system....

The higher income earner does not benefit more... they are the ones that end up paying the higher %% compared to those earning less.. the inherent unequal treatment by government in the system... I have pointed out the examples numerous times.. and you either choose to ignore them, or simply do not care as long as it benefits you at the expense of 'the evil rich'

 

[edthecynic]

Yup...

It makes me question the grasp of a progressive tax system some people have.

Either that or DD's extreme hatred of the poor makes him willing to pay more in taxes just to stick it to them.

Pretty funny stuff.

Does support of an equal % sales tax on all purchases, regardless of income, show 'hatred for the poor'??

What I hate is a system inherently based on unequal treatment and where subjective bullshit rules the way...

Absolutely! Consumption taxes are extremely regressive!

 

[dblack]

Depends on what they do now doesn't it?? Leaving a door open for more exemptions, tax floors artificially made, deductions etc... and changing the whole thing leads us right back to where we are...

Well sure. Perhaps you didn't catch it, but the whole point of the suggestion was to wipe away all that. Get rid of all deductions not directly related to calculating real income and replace the current system with a flat-rate income tax. Exempting a base amount is just a concession to reality. Poor folks not paying taxes isn't going to break us.

 

[DiamondDave]

Either that or DD's extreme hatred of the poor makes him willing to pay more in taxes just to stick it to them.

Pretty funny stuff.

Does support of an equal % sales tax on all purchases, regardless of income, show 'hatred for the poor'??

What I hate is a system inherently based on unequal treatment and where subjective bullshit rules the way...

Absolutely! Consumption taxes are extremely regressive!

So equal % on every dollar spent or earned on every citizen shows animosity towards the poor??

Seriously... you can't make this shit up.... equal treatment regardless of what a person is, does, etc is wrong to you... but some paying nothing or lesser rates than others is OK because it's not you and you get something out of it at the expense of someone else...??

Typical whacko progressive..
Equality is only OK when it benefits you, and unequal treatment is ok for others when it also benefits you... priceless

 

[Article 15]

Such animosity....

That 20k is obviously going to be a different percentage for anyone not making the exact same amount. My answer to you is "so what" everyone pays that same zero rate on those dollars earned and the same rate on each dollar after that. The same goes for a progressive system with multiple brackets or a flat tax system where there are no brackets and just one rate. As long as every dollar for dollar is taxed the same for everyone it's fair. This is obviously a blind spot of yours.

Now cry some moar.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the higher income earner benefit from the progressive system?

For instance, $100,000 in income at a 10% flat tax would mean $10,000 in taxes, while with the $20,000 deduction it would mean only $8,000 in taxes.

Because it is just another disguised way of making a progressive system with differing %'s paid based on income.. a punishment system....

The higher income earner does not benefit more... they are the ones that end up paying the higher %% compared to those earning less.. the inherent unequal treatment by government in the system... I have pointed out the examples numerous times.. and you either choose to ignore them, or simply do not care as long as it benefits you at the expense of 'the evil rich'

Reread her post, she didn't say they benefit more.

And it's been pointed out to you numerous times that higher income earners pay the same rates on the same dollar earned as lower earners but you choose to either ignore that or simply do not care as long as it gives you a chance to rail on your hated poor. Your contempt for them seeps through your every post.

 

[DiamondDave]

Depends on what they do now doesn't it?? Leaving a door open for more exemptions, tax floors artificially made, deductions etc... and changing the whole thing leads us right back to where we are...

Well sure. Perhaps you didn't catch it, but the whole point of the suggestion was to wipe away all that. Get rid of all deductions not directly related to calculating real income and replace the current system with a flat-rate income tax. Exempting a base amount is just a concession to reality. Poor folks not paying taxes isn't going to break us.

Is getting killed with a sharp knife better than being killed with a rusty dull one??

I'd rather not be killed...

I do not make concessions in my stances because of expedience... I am for equality in treatment, not as a bargaining chip, but because it is what a country supposedly based on such a thing should be required to do everywhere, not not just on popular whims

The 'poor' not paying is not equality in treatment... and feeds the monster of having voting power to continue having more at the expense of others who actually are contributors... IMHO it is why the leviathan is as big and bad as it is... and IMHO it was never intended to be that way, nor should it be that way

 

[DiamondDave]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the higher income earner benefit from the progressive system?

For instance, $100,000 in income at a 10% flat tax would mean $10,000 in taxes, while with the $20,000 deduction it would mean only $8,000 in taxes.

Because it is just another disguised way of making a progressive system with differing %'s paid based on income.. a punishment system....

The higher income earner does not benefit more... they are the ones that end up paying the higher %% compared to those earning less.. the inherent unequal treatment by government in the system... I have pointed out the examples numerous times.. and you either choose to ignore them, or simply do not care as long as it benefits you at the expense of 'the evil rich'

Reread her post, she didn't say they benefit more.

And it's been pointed out to you numerous times that higher income earners pay the same rates on the same dollar earned as lower earners but you choose to either ignore that or simply do not care as long as it gives you a chance to rail on your hated poor. Your contempt for them seeps through your every post.

No they do not.. because you, the progressivist, do not wish to count every dollar.. because it gains your goal of the unequal treatment system that benefits the lower earners over the higher ones.. envy at its finest

Your hatred of those who do better than you seeps thru every post

Oh... and I showed you EXACTLY how the higher earners do NOT pay the same rates.... yet you continually ignore it... those first 20K are not unicorn farts, they are earned and they do exist

You ******* disgust me... with your obvious sanctimony

 

[Article 15]

Because it is just another disguised way of making a progressive system with differing %'s paid based on income.. a punishment system....

The higher income earner does not benefit more... they are the ones that end up paying the higher %% compared to those earning less.. the inherent unequal treatment by government in the system... I have pointed out the examples numerous times.. and you either choose to ignore them, or simply do not care as long as it benefits you at the expense of 'the evil rich'

Reread her post, she didn't say they benefit more.

And it's been pointed out to you numerous times that higher income earners pay the same rates on the same dollar earned as lower earners but you choose to either ignore that or simply do not care as long as it gives you a chance to rail on your hated poor. Your contempt for them seeps through your every post.

No they do not.. because you, the progressivist, do not wish to count every dollar.. because it gains your goal of the unequal treatment system that benefits the lower earners over the higher ones.. envy at its finest

Your hatred of those who do better than you seeps thru every post

Oh... and I showed you EXACTLY how the higher earners do NOT pay the same rates.... yet you continually ignore it... those first 20K are not unicorn farts, they are earned and they do exist

You ******* disgust me... with your obvious sanctimony

The dollars not counted by the "progressivist" are not counted for everyone. Get that thru your head, man. The rich get the same break the poor do.

And being a single renter with no kids making more than 50k in taxable income, I'm getting a real kick out of the accusations you keep trying to make about my dog in this race.

 

[Ravi]

Such animosity....

That 20k is obviously going to be a different percentage for anyone not making the exact same amount. My answer to you is "so what" everyone pays that same zero rate on those dollars earned and the same rate on each dollar after that. The same goes for a progressive system with multiple brackets or a flat tax system where there are no brackets and just one rate. As long as every dollar for dollar is taxed the same for everyone it's fair. This is obviously a blind spot of yours.

Now cry some moar.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the higher income earner benefit from the progressive system?

For instance, $100,000 in income at a 10% flat tax would mean $10,000 in taxes, while with the $20,000 deduction it would mean only $8,000 in taxes.

Because it is just another disguised way of making a progressive system with differing %'s paid based on income.. a punishment system....

The higher income earner does not benefit more... they are the ones that end up paying the higher %% compared to those earning less.. the inherent unequal treatment by government in the system... I have pointed out the examples numerous times.. and you either choose to ignore them, or simply do not care as long as it benefits you at the expense of 'the evil rich'

It doesn't benefit them MORE but it does benefit them vs. a flat tax rate. I just showed you how a $100,000 income would have a smaller tax burden with the $20,000 deduction than without it.

I hate to break it to you, doofus, but I'm one of the evil rich.

You are an idiot.

 

[Article 15]

You ******* disgust me... with your obvious sanctimony

Oh, and cry some moar.

 

[dblack]

Is getting killed with a sharp knife better than being killed with a rusty dull one??

I'd rather not be killed...

That's not an accurate analogy. I've been down this road many times over the last thirty years with capital "L" Libertarians. The biggest fault of the party is the preference for ideological purity over real progress. I can fully understand the folly of compromise that sets bad precedent, or sacrifices current protections - but that's not the case here. We'd be moving from bad to better.

 

[Bern80]

The above is taken from your signature message.

If you believe that right-wing propaganda I respectfully suggest you research Denmark, which is a recognized socialist nation -- and is considered the "happiest" nation in the world.
Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

The fact that your belief system is predicated on a false premise means your intellectual compass is defective. So unless you wish to remain adrift you need to correct that error.

Why would someone who has everything done for them by someone else not be happy?

Why does the caged bird sing? Why are intelligent people less happy than dumb ones? This is a question better asked a slave.

Why are dogs happy despite their relative lack of freedom? Because only one of their needs is being denied (and freedom isn't even really a need) everything else is being taken care of for them. I bet there a lot of people that would like to be treated like a well treated dog. In fact that's kind of the reationship between government and people that liberals think should exist. The deal would be you would have all your basic necessities taken care of at no cost to you. Food, water, shelter, etc. In exchange you can only venture where the master allows you to and they would show you compassion with a good scratch behind the ears for good behavior. It would be human nature to take that deal, especially the risk averse liberals. Security in exchange for freedom. I bet more than a few people would take that deal.

 

[Big Fitz]

Why would someone who has everything done for them by someone else not be happy?

Why does the caged bird sing? Why are intelligent people less happy than dumb ones? This is a question better asked a slave.

Why are dogs happy despite their relative lack of freedom? Because only one of their needs is being denied (and freedom isn't even really a need) everything else is being taken care of for them. I bet there a lot of people that would like to be treated like a well treated dog. In fact that's kind of the reationship between government and people that liberals think should exist. The deal would be you would have all your basic necessities taken care of at no cost to you. Food, water, shelter, etc. In exchange you can only venture where the master allows you to and they would show you compassion with a good scratch behind the ears for good behavior. It would be human nature to take that deal, especially the risk averse liberals. Security in exchange for freedom. I bet more than a few people would take that deal.

So the rich are like dogs? Or are the poor like dogs? Cattle are also taken care of, right up till the day of their slaughter.

Are you content with being spare ribs, a rump roast and a few pounds of future burger?

 

[MikeK]

You could tax away 100% of the income of everyone making over $250K and it wouldn't make a dent in the budget deficit. I find it difficult to believe that anyone is stupid enough to genuinely believe that tax increases are the solution to the budget deficit.

You could take EVERYONE'S wealth including confiscating paychecks and it still wouldn't pay this tab.

CON$ are the most misinformed ignorant boobs on the planet! GOP hate radio tells them crap and they mindlessly parrot it on these public messageboards. We have over 50 trillion in total wealth!!!

And their indoctrination has been so effective their minds are not only closed but locked. They refuse to acknowledge their service to an emerging fascist aristocracy.

What we are seeing in contemporary America is analogous to what happened in Germany in the 30s. In place of Josef Goebbels, Hans Fritzsche, Julius Streicher, Gertrude Scholtz-Klink, Leni Riefenstahl and Albert Speer, we have Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Mark Levin, Bill O'Reilly, et. al.

And they are equally effective.

 

[MikeK]

Why are dogs happy despite their relative lack of freedom? Because only one of their needs is being denied (and freedom isn't even really a need) everything else is being taken care of for them. I bet there a lot of people that would like to be treated like a well treated dog. In fact that's kind of the reationship between government and people that liberals think should exist. The deal would be you would have all your basic necessities taken care of at no cost to you. Food, water, shelter, etc. In exchange you can only venture where the master allows you to and they would show you compassion with a good scratch behind the ears for good behavior. It would be human nature to take that deal, especially the risk averse liberals. Security in exchange for freedom. I bet more than a few people would take that deal.

Since you've chosen such an extreme analogy, how about you? Would you rather be a healthy, happy, contented pet dog or a miserable stray, scrounging for every bite of food, freezing in winter, suffering in summer and fighting for your life almost every day?