Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[Polk]

That's one of the main reasons why a 21% sales tax would never work. You want to complain about high taxation on corporations and the rich but don't mind implementing a system where the poor would be systematically destroyed. 21% of the poor's income and 21% of the rich's income are not even nearly the same.

So for you to say they would be hit just as hard is such a pathetic joke that I can't even laugh at how stupid it is.

It's even worse than that. Poor people spend a much higher percentage of their income, so the effective rate paid by the poor would be significantly higher.

good incentive to SAVE

Without getting in to the negative economic impact of a huge shift toward saving, it's also worth noting that it's not practical. Someone making 20k a year doesn't have any other choice but to spend the vast majority of their income.

 

[kaz]

It would increase all prices, yes

No. The taxes it would replace are already baked into the price that you pay. You realize corporate taxes are actually in the price of the product? Your income taxes are paid to you through your salary, which is generated by your company's sales, they actually charge for that. Investment taxes ditto. It would actually lower prices because so are all the tax lawyers and disincentives to economic efficiencies created by our tax code. And everyone would pay when they spend, including those who currently evade income taxes.

Talk about magical thinking.

What did I say that's wrong?

 

[Modbert]

I don't jump through your hoops either. deal with it, or as you said, cease conversing with me/us.. what the **** ever.

You make a claim, you back it up. That's a pretty simple concept in life. But not for Willow.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

Certainly not with Obama as President.
Consider:
G.E. (which paid zero taxes) - their CEO Jeffery Immelt who during his tenure has shipped 39,000 jobs overseas...not one CEO in America can claim this high dishoner - YET - Obama put him as chairman on his "jobs council" - whose responsibility is to give advice to the President on CREATING jobs.

Can you say...what??

 

[WillowTree]

It's even worse than that. Poor people spend a much higher percentage of their income, so the effective rate paid by the poor would be significantly higher.

good incentive to SAVE

Without getting in to the negative economic impact of a huge shift toward saving, it's also worth noting that it's not practical. Someone making 20k a year doesn't have any other choice but to spend the vast majority of their income.

I guess you assume you're talking to someone who has never been dirt poor? Right? Because you are wrong. But,, I managed to save a little money and I'll tell ya right up front.. I didn't piss it away on wall street or in the gambling halls,,, every red cent I've ever saved is still in da bank. I'll never be rich, but I'll hopefully never be dirt poor again.

 

[kaz]

I don't jump through your hoops either. deal with it, or as you said, cease conversing with me/us.. what the **** ever.

You make a claim, you back it up. That's a pretty simple concept in life. But not for Willow.

True, but you're missing a step:

First you understand something, then you challenge it, then it gets backed up. I don't see the point in backing up something you don't grasp.

If you do, answer the first question which is the whole premise of the Fair Tax. Name a tax other then the death tax which is not in the end baked into the price of products you buy. Your argument against it was based on that taxes are not baked into the products we buy. If that were true, it would be as you called it a "sales tax." So, let's focus on the critical issue before going to an argument which is based on your inaccurate reference to the Fair Tax as just a sales tax. You say you understand that, demonstrate it by describing it correctly.

 

[WillowTree]

I don't jump through your hoops either. deal with it, or as you said, cease conversing with me/us.. what the **** ever.

You make a claim, you back it up. That's a pretty simple concept in life. But not for Willow.

You've never backed up jack shit, so I spit on your concept of life in da basement.

 

[Modbert]

You've never backed up jack shit, so I spit on your concept of life in da basement.

Except you're the one who made a claim, not me. You said I have sourced the DNC website to prove a point that Republicans are wrong. The burden is on you to prove said point.

Never a dull moment with you Willow.

 

[kaz]

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

Certainly not with Obama as President.
Consider:
G.E. (which paid zero taxes) - their CEO Jeffery Immelt who during his tenure has shipped 39,000 jobs overseas...not one CEO in America can claim this high dishoner - YET - Obama put him as chairman on his "jobs council" - whose responsibility is to give advice to the President on CREATING jobs.

Can you say...what??

Baked into GE's prices are all their employees income taxes, social security taxes, medicare taxes, unemployment taxes, the taxes they paid for the products they buy with their salaries, the taxes of GE vendors who paid corporate taxes as well as all the other taxes I mentioned. Taxes on dividends, capital gains, debt payments are also all in GE prices and GE collected massive sales taxes. To say they "didn't pay" any tax is what's tripping. They generated hundreds of billions in tax dollars.

 

[edthecynic]

First you praise a "Fair tax" which is a consumption tax, and then you condemn corporate taxes which are de fcto consumption taxes because corporations just pass the taxes on in the price to the consumer who buys their products.

If you truly believed a consumption tax was the fairest tax, you would be fighting to have all taxes replaced by corporate taxes!

Wow, that's a pretty lucid argument for you Ed. What you say is largely true, they are in many ways the same. But there are differences and they are important. Here are the two biggest.

1) Fairtax is based on revenue, corporate taxes are based on profit. Taxing revenue removes political power to play games, taxing profit keeps all the corporate overhead of our tax code in place as companies define and prove "profit." It would be better then current, but not as good.

2) Fairtax applies to all products sold in the US. Doesn't matter where companies are based. With corporate it's based on location of headquarters. Think of it Ed, no more companies moving offshore to avoid paying taxes.

So you would be in favor of replacing all taxes with a revenue based corporate tax, yes, no?

 

[kaz]

You've never backed up jack shit, so I spit on your concept of life in da basement.

Except you're the one who made a claim, not me. You said I have sourced the DNC website to prove a point that Republicans are wrong. The burden is on you to prove said point.

Never a dull moment with you Willow.

Wow, going to a message board and rather then arguing and backing up your points you tell everyone to prove theirs. You live a very frustrated life, don't you?

 

[saveliberty]

Most politicans will tell you deductions are created to encourage a behavior. Now you want to send a message that we will penalize you for doing what we want?

 

[kaz]

First you praise a "Fair tax" which is a consumption tax, and then you condemn corporate taxes which are de fcto consumption taxes because corporations just pass the taxes on in the price to the consumer who buys their products.

If you truly believed a consumption tax was the fairest tax, you would be fighting to have all taxes replaced by corporate taxes!

Wow, that's a pretty lucid argument for you Ed. What you say is largely true, they are in many ways the same. But there are differences and they are important. Here are the two biggest.

1) Fairtax is based on revenue, corporate taxes are based on profit. Taxing revenue removes political power to play games, taxing profit keeps all the corporate overhead of our tax code in place as companies define and prove "profit." It would be better then current, but not as good.

2) Fairtax applies to all products sold in the US. Doesn't matter where companies are based. With corporate it's based on location of headquarters. Think of it Ed, no more companies moving offshore to avoid paying taxes.

So you would be in favor of replacing all taxes with a revenue based corporate tax, yes, no?

Yes. You just said corporate tax before, which is profit based not revenue based. A revenue based corporate tax is exactly what the Fair Tax is.

 

[Big Fitz]

It would increase all prices, yes

No. The taxes it would replace are already baked into the price that you pay. You realize corporate taxes are actually in the price of the product? Your income taxes are paid to you through your salary, which is generated by your company's sales, they actually charge for that. Investment taxes ditto. It would actually lower prices because so are all the tax lawyers and disincentives to economic efficiencies created by our tax code. And everyone would pay when they spend, including those who currently evade income taxes.

Talk about magical thinking.

Not quite. Kaz makes a valid point. With taxes reduced on manufacturers and suppliers, it could end up being a wash in MOST cases, but not all if the consumption tax was commiserate with the ingrained taxes from our current system (payroll, FICA, Unemployment on all parties involved from resource to sale).

So, there's something to it.

 

[Contumacious]

I wonder how much freedom and liberty concerns those with an empty stomach, or those ill and in constant pain. .

So pain and suffering are liens upon my property.

Those who are poor have a right to impose demands on me?


The government has , somehow, acquired the authority to force "A" to support "B"?

.

 

[kaz]

Most politicans will tell you deductions are created to encourage a behavior. Now you want to send a message that we will penalize you for doing what we want?

You want politicians deciding what behaviors to encourage?

 

[Modbert]

Wow, going to a message board and rather then arguing and backing up your points you tell everyone to prove theirs. You live a very frustrated life, don't you?

There's nothing to argue or back up when she accuses me of sourcing something. All I can say is that I didn't because I didn't. It's up to her to prove her claim in the first place, something she never did.

I argue and back up my points all the time. So no need to worry about my life.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's easy to fix tax loopholes. Flat and Fair Tax for Everybody. No exceptions.

The fair tax has a rebate for the poor which effectively allows them to pay zero taxes.

 

[kaz]

No. The taxes it would replace are already baked into the price that you pay. You realize corporate taxes are actually in the price of the product? Your income taxes are paid to you through your salary, which is generated by your company's sales, they actually charge for that. Investment taxes ditto. It would actually lower prices because so are all the tax lawyers and disincentives to economic efficiencies created by our tax code. And everyone would pay when they spend, including those who currently evade income taxes.

Talk about magical thinking.

Not quite. Kaz makes a valid point. With taxes reduced on manufacturers and suppliers, it could end up being a wash in MOST cases, but not all if the consumption tax was commiserate with the ingrained taxes from our current system (payroll, FICA, Unemployment on all parties involved from resource to sale).

So, there's something to it.

It would be a wash in all cases because all those taxes you mentioned would be replaced by the Fair Tax not collected in addition to it and all those taxes you mentioned are baked into the price of products you buy.

The Fair Tax would be the only Federal Tax, period. States would be highly encouraged to do the same since they wouldn't have the IRS already collecting what they use as the basis of their tax forms now.

 

[edthecynic]

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

Certainly not with Obama as President.
Consider:
G.E. (which paid zero taxes) - their CEO Jeffery Immelt who during his tenure has shipped 39,000 jobs overseas...not one CEO in America can claim this high dishoner - YET - Obama put him as chairman on his "jobs council" - whose responsibility is to give advice to the President on CREATING jobs.

Can you say...what??

Yet another DittoTard parroting their MessiahRushie's lie. See my blog post!!! Stuttering LimpTard got called on this lie in the same show he told it!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/blogs/edthecynic/436-limbaugh-just-keeps-on-lying.html