Five Founding Fathers Who Would Be Rejected by the Religious Right Today

[CrusaderFrank]

Regardless of their personal beliefs, our FF's escaped from a theocracy, and wrote a constitution explicitly distancing it from influence.

A basic fundamental American religmo's have consitsteny violated ,for their own theocratic gains

~S~

You people don't really understand what a theocracy is or that the 1st Amendment allowed for state established religions, none of which were actual theocracies.

No they didn't allow for a state to establish one religion.

Sure they did and they were.

 

[hobelim]

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1. George Washington. The father of our country was nominally an Anglican but seemed more at home with Deism. The language of the Deists sounds odd to today’s ears because it’s a theological system of thought that has fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause. He set things in motion and then stepped back.

2. John Adams. The man who followed Washington in office was a Unitarian, although he was raised a Congregationalist and never officially left that church. Adams rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams makes it clear that he considered some Christian dogma to be incomprehensible.

As president, Adams signed the famous Treaty of Tripoli, which boldly stated, “[T]he government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….”

3. Thomas Jefferson. It’s almost impossible to define Jefferson’s subtle religious views in a few words. As he once put it, “I am a sect by myself, as far as I know.” But one thing is clear: His skepticism of traditional Christianity is well established. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin and other core Christian doctrines. He was hostile to many conservative Christian clerics, whom he believed had perverted the teachings of that faith.

Jefferson once famously observed to Adams, “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

4. James Madison. Jefferson’s close ally would be similarly unelectable today. Madison is perhaps the most enigmatic of all the founders when it comes to religion. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views.

Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separationist among the founders, taking stands that make the ACLU look like a bunch of pikers. He opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military. As president, Madison rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession. For the government to count the clergy, Madison said, would violate the First Amendment.

5. Thomas Paine. Paine never held elective office, but he played an important role as a pamphleteer whose stirring words helped rally Americans to independence. Washington ordered that Paine’s pamphlet “The American Crisis” be read aloud to the Continental Army as a morale booster on Dec. 23, 1776. “Common Sense” was similarly popular with the people. These seminal documents were crucial to winning over the public to the side of independence.

So Paine’s a hero, right? He was also a radical Deist whose later work, The Age of Reason, still infuriates fundamentalists.

There you have it folks!!

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus made sense when he spoke, you not so much

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1. George Washington. The father of our country was nominally an Anglican but seemed more at home with Deism. The language of the Deists sounds odd to today’s ears because it’s a theological system of thought that has fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause. He set things in motion and then stepped back.

2. John Adams. The man who followed Washington in office was a Unitarian, although he was raised a Congregationalist and never officially left that church. Adams rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams makes it clear that he considered some Christian dogma to be incomprehensible.

As president, Adams signed the famous Treaty of Tripoli, which boldly stated, “[T]he government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….”

3. Thomas Jefferson. It’s almost impossible to define Jefferson’s subtle religious views in a few words. As he once put it, “I am a sect by myself, as far as I know.” But one thing is clear: His skepticism of traditional Christianity is well established. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin and other core Christian doctrines. He was hostile to many conservative Christian clerics, whom he believed had perverted the teachings of that faith.

Jefferson once famously observed to Adams, “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

4. James Madison. Jefferson’s close ally would be similarly unelectable today. Madison is perhaps the most enigmatic of all the founders when it comes to religion. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views.

Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separationist among the founders, taking stands that make the ACLU look like a bunch of pikers. He opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military. As president, Madison rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession. For the government to count the clergy, Madison said, would violate the First Amendment.

5. Thomas Paine. Paine never held elective office, but he played an important role as a pamphleteer whose stirring words helped rally Americans to independence. Washington ordered that Paine’s pamphlet “The American Crisis” be read aloud to the Continental Army as a morale booster on Dec. 23, 1776. “Common Sense” was similarly popular with the people. These seminal documents were crucial to winning over the public to the side of independence.

So Paine’s a hero, right? He was also a radical Deist whose later work, The Age of Reason, still infuriates fundamentalists.

There you have it folks!!

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

He stripped naked and washed the feet of the apostles, he fed 5000, he said the poor woman paid more tax than the rich, he said to go an extra mile, he healed on Sunday, and

Luke 14:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

I could go on but you get the message I'm sure.

But these are things he said people should do for each other, he never said that government should do it for people.

 

[dannyboys]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1. George Washington. The father of our country was nominally an Anglican but seemed more at home with Deism. The language of the Deists sounds odd to today’s ears because it’s a theological system of thought that has fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause. He set things in motion and then stepped back.

2. John Adams. The man who followed Washington in office was a Unitarian, although he was raised a Congregationalist and never officially left that church. Adams rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams makes it clear that he considered some Christian dogma to be incomprehensible.

As president, Adams signed the famous Treaty of Tripoli, which boldly stated, “[T]he government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….”

3. Thomas Jefferson. It’s almost impossible to define Jefferson’s subtle religious views in a few words. As he once put it, “I am a sect by myself, as far as I know.” But one thing is clear: His skepticism of traditional Christianity is well established. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin and other core Christian doctrines. He was hostile to many conservative Christian clerics, whom he believed had perverted the teachings of that faith.

Jefferson once famously observed to Adams, “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

4. James Madison. Jefferson’s close ally would be similarly unelectable today. Madison is perhaps the most enigmatic of all the founders when it comes to religion. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views.

Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separationist among the founders, taking stands that make the ACLU look like a bunch of pikers. He opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military. As president, Madison rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession. For the government to count the clergy, Madison said, would violate the First Amendment.

5. Thomas Paine. Paine never held elective office, but he played an important role as a pamphleteer whose stirring words helped rally Americans to independence. Washington ordered that Paine’s pamphlet “The American Crisis” be read aloud to the Continental Army as a morale booster on Dec. 23, 1776. “Common Sense” was similarly popular with the people. These seminal documents were crucial to winning over the public to the side of independence.

So Paine’s a hero, right? He was also a radical Deist whose later work, The Age of Reason, still infuriates fundamentalists.

There you have it folks!!

Our resident gay puts up another 'C&P'.
Good for you sweetheart.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

 

[hobelim]

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

 

[rightwinger]

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Even Jesus knew that government was a necessity

 

[hobelim]

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Even Jesus knew that government was a necessity

Where are you getting that from?



Seems to me that for some mysterious reason Jesus preferred death than to comply with a patently evil institution dedicated to perpetuating evil by making blindness a virtue and then profiting and feasting on the blood and suffering of the the blind.. .

Wherever people are too scared to think for themselves some lowlife will always come along to guide them...

Jesus was teaching people how to think for themselves. It was an extremely seditious teaching.

It took all the power away from government and returned it to the people.

 

[Penelope]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.


There you have it folks!!

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

He stripped naked and washed the feet of the apostles, he fed 5000, he said the poor woman paid more tax than the rich, he said to go an extra mile, he healed on Sunday, and

Luke 14:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

I could go on but you get the message I'm sure.

But these are things he said people should do for each other, he never said that government should do it for people.

Well Judea was a theocracy. The churches took care of the poor.

 

[hobelim]

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

He stripped naked and washed the feet of the apostles, he fed 5000, he said the poor woman paid more tax than the rich, he said to go an extra mile, he healed on Sunday, and

Luke 14:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

I could go on but you get the message I'm sure.

But these are things he said people should do for each other, he never said that government should do it for people.

Well Judea was a theocracy. The churches took care of the poor.

The churches teach blind faith in the ridiculous and then send believers out into the jungle completely naked, believing that rational thought is evil and seeking help and protection from a figment of their imagination is the way to eternal life.

Then they hand out soup to people that the they confused and blinded since birth and became destitute..

 

[Penelope]

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

He stripped naked and washed the feet of the apostles, he fed 5000, he said the poor woman paid more tax than the rich, he said to go an extra mile, he healed on Sunday, and

Luke 14:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

I could go on but you get the message I'm sure.

But these are things he said people should do for each other, he never said that government should do it for people.

Well Judea was a theocracy. The churches took care of the poor.

The churches teach blind faith in the ridiculous and then send believers out into the jungle completely naked, believing that rational thought is evil and seeking help and protection from a figment of their imagination is the way to eternal life.

Then they hand out soup to people that the they confused and blinded since birth and became destitute..

Whoop di doo. Ain't that special.

I am not talking the churches of today. I'm talking the churches years ago. People also worked.

 

[Penelope]

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Even Jesus knew that government was a necessity

Where are you getting that from?



Seems to me that for some mysterious reason Jesus preferred death than to comply with a patently evil institution dedicated to perpetuating evil by making blindness a virtue and then profiting and feasting on the blood and suffering of the the blind.. .

Wherever people are too scared to think for themselves some lowlife will always come along to guide them...

Jesus was teaching people how to think for themselves. It was an extremely seditious teaching.

It took all the power away from government and returned it to the people.

According to the scripture he was a rabbi. He didn't return anything to the people. Walk an extra mile was for service to the roman military.

 

[Penelope]

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Roman oppressors, all would of been fine if not for the jewish zealots who started a civil war. Rome brought a lot of jobs to the area.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Roman oppressors, all would of been fine if not for the jewish zealots who started a civil war. Rome brought a lot of jobs to the area.

Judea was not quite a theocracy in the time of
Jesus----the people in power were the romans and THEIR APPOINTEES-----mostly the Sadducees and to a lesser extent some
Edomite toadies----like Herod. The people with the least POWER were Jesus and his
colleagues----THE PHARISEES, although they were recognized as the "teachers"
The really famous and HATED Sadducee of that time was CAIAPHAS----made "high priest" by the romans. The Sanhedrin was not THAT MUCH under roman control----because it was to some extent---self perpetuating------the scholars still manage to
weigh in. ----ie THE PHARISEES. For the record----some Edomites were very fine jews------they did not murder John the Baptist----who was, CLEARLY a monastic jew-----of the jews who fled the filth of roman hedonism and corruption and lived a monastic life out in the
sticks. Herod----the edomite roman toadie---murdered JOHN.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Regardless of their personal beliefs, our FF's escaped from a theocracy, and wrote a constitution explicitly distancing it from influence.

A basic fundamental American religmo's have consitsteny violated ,for their own theocratic gains

~S~

You people don't really understand what a theocracy is or that the 1st Amendment allowed for state established religions, none of which were actual theocracies.

Holly shit!! Do you seriously believe that? Even Rick Santorum most likely does not believe that. That is over the top ridiculous!!

 

[sparky]

Roman oppressors, all would of been fine if not for the jewish zealots who started a civil war. Rome brought a lot of jobs to the area.

cross carpenters?


thorn weavers?


~S~

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Actually I find many more Democrats (as you call them progressives) more like Jesus of the bible (NT) than the religious right.

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

He stripped naked and washed the feet of the apostles, he fed 5000, he said the poor woman paid more tax than the rich, he said to go an extra mile, he healed on Sunday, and

Luke 14:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

I could go on but you get the message I'm sure.

But these are things he said people should do for each other, he never said that government should do it for people.

Well Judea was a theocracy. The churches took care of the poor.

At that time, Judea was a Roman province. Jews were permitted to live there under Roman rule.

There were no churches. There was the synagogue, arguably as corrupt as the Democratic Party is today.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Roman oppressors, all would of been fine if not for the jewish zealots who started a civil war. Rome brought a lot of jobs to the area.

You're as weird as you are uneducated.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

He was living under a corrupt theocracy in cahoots with brutal foreign Roman oppressors. What do you think his views on government were as he was flipping them all off from the cross?

Even Jesus knew that government was a necessity

That's the Gospel according to Alinsky